Dead Man's Party-Did the scoobs act wrongly?

[Xin Rong]

Did anyone else think the scoobies, particuarly xander and willow where too harsh on buffy, i mean if she wants to run away then thats her progative- she just killed the love of her life, her mum threw her out and she was wanted for murder and expelled, i think i would have ran too.

[Jacklyn]

Changed the title of this thread as you were using the wrong episode title :D

[Blessed]

I thought they were way too harsh. I mean come on what she had to go through was ridiculous. Of course running away from one's problems won't solve anything. But she was young. Then in sesaon 7 when she targeted a problem head on she was persecuted for it. For friends they acted pretty cold in Empty Places too. But hey no one's perfect.

[JustAnnie]

Yes and no. They should have tried to be more understanding, but so should Buffy. She was gone for months, and didn't even bother to give them a call! They had no idea if they were ever gonna see her again, or if she was even alive. I'd be pretty mad myself! And also, we don't know everything that happened that summer between the scoobies. Seemed to me like Wilow had been really upset the whole summer cos she worried so much about Buffy. We all know how protective Xander can be over Willow, and I think that was part of the reason he was so mad.
They all seemed to be avoiding the topic at first, trying not to talk about it. I think they were worried they'd yell at her. But when Willow saw Buffy packing again, she just couldn't hold it in anymore. And when it had first started, Xander couldn't hold back anymore either.
And I also think it was good for them to get it out. If they hadn't, it might have been lying there underneath the surface, and in the long run could have ruined their friendship. Noone should ever bottle up their feelings!

[Xin Rong]

i agree they where a bit cold, but i do think she deserved what she got in series 7 and she has done things to them 2 but in homecoming i think they where way too tight on her!!!lol

[Calvary]

Yes and no. They should have tried to be more understanding, but so should Buffy. She was gone for months, and didn't even bother to give them a call! They had no idea if they were ever gonna see her again, or if she was even alive. I'd be pretty mad myself! And also, we don't know everything that happened that summer between the scoobies. Seemed to me like Wilow had been really upset the whole summer cos she worried so much about Buffy. We all know how protective Xander can be over Willow, and I think that was part of the reason he was so mad.
They all seemed to be avoiding the topic at first, trying not to talk about it. I think they were worried they'd yell at her. But when Willow saw Buffy packing again, she just couldn't hold it in anymore. And when it had first started, Xander couldn't hold back anymore either.
And I also think it was good for them to get it out. If they hadn't, it might have been lying there underneath the surface, and in the long run could have ruined their friendship. Noone should ever bottle up their feelings!
I agree. I was just about to mention that Buffy had left the Scoobies with all of the slaying duties, and certainly no human is built that way, only the Slayer is. It's just as though she had left her responsiblilities to everyone else, causing their lives to go haywire and such. She certainly was being selfish, but there is also the part of me that knows where she is coming from. Losing just about everything that was dear to her: her mother, Angel, her love, all down the drain. But she should've handled things differently, at least.

[Jenny]

Well they passed judgement upon her without even knowing the entire situation, so yes I do think they were WAY too harsh on her.

[Calvary]

But still, think of it from their point of view. What if your friend, the one and only Slayer (as of then), left, leaving you, as well as three other friends basically the fate of the world. Sunnydale was above the hellmouth, Buffy was gone, you really think that they would be happy to risk their lives every night defending the hellmouth and the rest of Sunnydale? I know I sure wouldn't. She didn't even give them an explanation that she left, nor did she really even say goodbye, all she left was a note to Joyce. That must've been painful for the Scoobies as well, that their friend didn't even bother to say goodbye to them.

[LadyLavinia]

But still, think of it from their point of view. What if your friend, the one and only Slayer (as of then), left, leaving you, as well as three other friends basically the fate of the world. Sunnydale was above the hellmouth, Buffy was gone, you really think that they would be happy to risk their lives every night defending the hellmouth and the rest of Sunnydale? I know I sure wouldn't. She didn't even give them an explanation that she left, nor did she really even say goodbye, all she left was a note to Joyce. That must've been painful for the Scoobies as well, that their friend didn't even bother to say goodbye to them.


As far as I'm concerned, the only person Buffy had to answer to was Joyce. And considering Buffy's emotional state at the time she left, it is understandable why she didn't say anything when she left.

Also, why did the Scoobies bother to take up Slaying duties in the first place? Who asked them to? Slaying should not have been a duty for Buffy. It should have been a matter of choice.

[Slayer,The]

As far as I'm concerned, the only person Buffy had to answer to was Joyce. And considering Buffy's emotional state at the time she left, it is understandable why she didn't say anything when she left.

Also, why did the Scoobies bother to take up Slaying duties in the first place? Who asked them to? Slaying should not have been a duty for Buffy. It should have been a matter of choice.

Wow I kind of agree to you.

Especially the first part about Joyce. Because your right, Buffy doesn't have to tell her friends squat. And she shouldn't have because they were jerks and shes too good for that crap.

Though I believe the Scoobs acted righteous when they tried to take on the slaying. Even though it was really stupid because they were all just weak mortals. They had no power to use and if they had kept on doing it, they most likely would have fell victim to a sharp tooth.

And I also agree with you on the point of Buffy's choice.

Just because your embued with the power of the slayer doesn't necessarily mean that you have to. Buffy knew that, she knew she could run away and escape her destiny. But in the end, she always did the right thing.

Granted the world would be really screwed without the superslayer that is Buffy, but she did not have to put her life on the line every night.

[:.Tru Davies.:]

yer, i thought they were a bit harsh too! im like 'give her a brake!'

[Mikki]

I too agree that they were way too harsh on Buffy. Yeah, they may have been upset and angry that she left without saying anything and she haven't contacted them but they really should have made her feel welcome when she came home, so she wasn't tempted into running away again. It was also rude when they turned what was meant to be a intimate dinner with friends into a full on party.

[phoenixrising]

This is a sticky matter. I think there was blame on both sides. Buffy should have let everyone else know that she was at least okay, but the Scoobies were a bit harsh also.

I like that fact that as soon as the attack starts, they start acting like a well-oiled team and that everything was forgiven after that.

[BocaDelInfierno]

This is a sticky matter. I think there was blame on both sides. Buffy should have let everyone else know that she was at least okay, but the Scoobies were a bit harsh also.

I disagree that Buffy should have told them (definately not Xander.) He broke trust with Buffy when he failed to tell her that Willow was going to try to do the spell. Buffy had to suck it up, take responsibility, and save the world. I think she deserved her alone time after having to kill her lover and being lied to by one of her best friends, plus the whole Joyce thing. Even Joyce pushed the boundaries. She threatened Buffy to try to make her fall in line, and in the end her bluff was called. I have very little sympathy for anyone but Willow, and even then, it seems in relation to Buffy's problems, Willow's are not that bad and she should have a little perspective.

[AngelicSlayer00]

Yes, I thought they were too harsh on her. Obviously there was a reason that she ran away and though they were upset they should have been more sensitive to her feelings.

[Wicca]

i really did think they were way too harsh on her. they had no right, certainly not xander, to act the way they did because they didn't know the whole story.
sure, now you can say - so wasn't that reason enough to behave like they did? well i don't think so. it's buffy. the three of them have been through just about enough to know to trust her, to know that if she took a step as drastic as to run away, she had a darn good reason behind that. considering what she went through and considering they didn't try (enough) to really understand her... they had absolutely no right.

[JustAnnie]

I think they were trying to be sensitive to her feelings. I think that's why they were avoiding talking about it, and why they made the party, so that it wouldn't come up. Maybe they were scared they would yell at her, and make things worse.
I guess I side with them because I kinda understand what they went through...my bestfriend ran away, and I knew she had been through alot, but it was no excuse. She wasn't gone as long as Buffy, and I even almost knew where she was, and still I was worried sick. i just wanted her to call me and let me know she was ok! I could barely sleep at night because I didn't know what was going on with her, and all I wanted was for her to tell me what was wrong, and where she was. And I never told her how angry I felt, or how scared I was...and I hardly talk to her anymore. I think that's the reason. We have so many unsolved problems. When the scoobies yelled at Buffy, they got it all out, and things were solved. If they hadn't said anything about how they felt, it could easily have ruined their friendship!

[Wicca]

i think there are other ways to solve problems.
and i also think that making a party and inviting strangers to avoid personal conversaation about personal matters is what it is - avoiding.

[killerdwarf]

They were much too hard on her. I was cringing when this ep was on last week. The Scoobs were so shrill and nasty, and in public too. Way out of line.

[Jules]

I thought Xander's behaviour was worse than Willow's. It seems that Xander and Buffy have the most explosive relationship. He always argues his point with her more than the others. Willow was a little cruel when she stood Buffy up at the cafe. But I can see why they were so angry with her. They didn't know she'd had to kill Angel, and there was nothing physically wrong with her. To them Buffy had been completely selfish by not even letting them know she was alive.

[Miss_Sunnydale]

I think that they did. I mean, she was having some problems and they all jumped on her. She isnt perfect. She made a mistake. I really could have KILLED Xander. He made me sooo mad. They should have been more understanding. I mean she had to kill the love of her life. Her Soulmate.

[Spudd168]

I think what made it worse was that they didnt know about half the bad stuff she had to do, or had done to her. Like her friends might not of known she got kiked out, they didnt know about her expolsion(dunno if thats a word???) and they sure as hell didnt know about her having to kill Angel. I think Buffy should have been mad at Xander because it must of got back to her that Willow restored his sole, and that Xander was ment to tell her, and he didnt. Which i thought was so mean! But i think Buffy thought she had let everyone down in a way, and thats why she left and also how would you return after doin that to the love of your life, she didnt think she would ever see him again. How do you explain that to your best friends.

[Jacklyn]

Actually, she didn't discover that Xander was supposed to tell her about restoring the soul until Season 7 in the episode Selfless.

[Mango]

I think what made it worse was that they didnt know about half the bad stuff she had to do, or had done to her. Like her friends might not of known she got kiked out, they didnt know about her expolsion(dunno if thats a word???) and they sure as hell didnt know about her having to kill Angel.
Yeah, that is a point. I never thought of it that way. When I first saw it I was so angry at them and I thought they were being way too harsh on her, but you're right, they didn't know some of what Buffy went through. :nopity:

I guess though, that they should have known that she wouldn't run away for no reason. They should have tried to take her feelings into account.

[Joamna]

I defenitly think they were to harsh on Buffy. I understand that they were angry that she just left them and didn't contact them at all while she was away. And also they didn't know all that happened to her, but I don't feel that they gave her an honest opportunity either. Instead they did the opposite; Willow didn't come when they had planned to meet and instead of having a quite dinner where they could really talk they throw a big party...
If they had big issues with her leaving they could have let her know that instead of trying to act as everything was as ususal..

They should know her enough by now to know that she wouldn't just abandon them for no good reason,,

[Wicked]

i dont think they were too harsh. yeah she went through a lot and its up to her if she wants to run away. but her friends and mum had a right to be upset. she left them to worry about her for months. they couldnt help that they were worried and hurt. especially since she was gonna leave again after she just got back. she had her reasons, but they had theirs too.

if someone you loved vanished for months with barely a word, what would you do? how would you feel? id be pretty annoyed and hurt!

[QueenCordy]

Well. Yes and No. I understand were Buffy was coming from not being able to handle things then her mom telling her not to come back so she didn't. She could have tried talking to someone though. Willow would be the obvious choice.Although Xander had no right to say the things that he said to her.

[SilentWhispers]

I say yes and no.

They were really harsh on Buffy, about her not letting them know where she was, if she okay or anything.

But at the same time, I would be really mad if I thought that my best friend didn't think I could always be there for her. I mean she should have felt they were there for her enough to understand her situation and help her through it.

But they should have said that ^...they shouldn't have just yelled and made her feel so bad she would leave again.

[Jonut]

i think the scoobies had best intentions at heart. They were geniuely worried and wanted to vent that as soon as they saw her, but they could have handled it in a much better way, it ended up seeming to buffy as an attack and everyone ganging up on her in front of so many people. Being away from so long, knowing what she had to face when she came back, everyone attacking her at once mustnt have been a pleasant thing to have to go through.

However, they were worried, she did hold back a lot from them, she had a hard time with Angel and how it all panned out, if she had of talked then maybe they could have helped but she didnt and chose to get away which is understandable if not a little selfish to all those she left behind.

I kind of feel bad for both parties in that argument, but I guess everyone needed to get it out of their system

[Kimm]

Although I think their intentions were good, I also think they were too hard on her for running away. They made it all about them instead of stopping to ask her what had happened to make her have to leave.

If it were my friend my first response would be to ask what ws so horrible that she felt she had to run away. Instead they were too focused on how horrible and worried they felt....I didn't think it was right.

[PrincessZombie]

I don't think that they were too harsh on her at all. I know that lots of crappy stuff happened to Buffy, but she shouldn't have just run away for several months, without even letting her friends and family know if she was alive. That was very selfish and immature. And I think that the Scoobies were just worried about her, and upset that she left.

[Maddy]

Yeah, good point. Think about it. Buffy was still a teenager and she just ran away from home without justifying her
actions or calling ANYONE to tell them she was at least alive. For all they knew she could have been laying in a ditch dead somewhere! They had EVERY right to be mad with her, especially Joyce. Just because they were angry it didn't mean they didn't love her, but running away didn't solve anything.

[Wanabee-slayer]

I agree they were tottally harsh she just had to do the hardest thing in her life and here they are barking down her neck

[Gunnlover26]

I am going to say yes! Unlike many of the people who love to see when the Scoobies have conflict, I'm not one of those. I like them happy and together. They were harsh at her party to confront her like they did. But, I admit she was wrong for running away.

[VisionGuy]

I have to say that the scoobs did act wrongly. Not including Joyce because she had every right to be upset. Buffy got expelled, kicked out of the house by her mom, lost a friend in Kendra, and had to send the love of her life to hell. Who wouldn't run away after all that drama?! Nobody told the Scoobies to take over for her. They could've just gone on with their regular lives. And they shouldn't go around saying Buffy dragged them into anything because if I remember correctly in the pilot,Buffy didn't want Xander and Willow to be involved in the slayage in any way. They both insisted in helping out. Joyce on the other hand had every right to be upset. I mean that is her daughter and she had just found out monsters are real so of course she'd be upset.

In conclusion, what Buffy did was wrong but The Scoobies should have been more supportive on her returning other than being all avoidy and angry.

[Hero]

I don't think they were to harsh on Buffy at all. You can only keep something inside for so long before it's bound to come out. Buffy should have had more respect for them than she did. Yeah, she was dealing, but I felt like she was taking the pain out on them in a way by leaving them high and dry, especially her mother. Buffy should have realized that when Joyce said "if you walk out of this house dont even think about coming back," she was just speaking out of anger. The one thing I do disagree with was that they shouldn't have started with Buffy in front of all those people. How embarassing. lol

[zombie.apparatus]

I think they were way too harsh on Buffy... could you imagine after all the stuff that has just happened to her inside a small time peroid and then you come back hoping for support and that warmthness after you havent been home in ages and then everyone treats you like crap.... she felt so miserable and the way everyone treated buffy really upset me especially the fact that willow and xander were harsh to0, was horrible and wrong.

[drtroy]

I agree they were way 2 harsh, and yes buffy should have said something. "hey I need some time away,to think things through." Now I'm sure if she would have said that everyone would have said no..its your duty to be here..to slay..and your young...blah..blah..and she still would have been judged..

Xander as usual flew off the handle...it amazed me how easily buffy would forgive them..when willow almost got dawn killed..when giles could have gotten buffy killed with the muscle relaxors and so on...

Yes they all made bad choices..but the one thing I really liked about Buffy she didn't throw it back in everyone's faces...she let bygones be bygones..and Xander..was king of making everyone feel crappy..he just kept bringing up her/everyone's mistakes..and faults.

[eponinethen]

(Trying to ignore the last part and not bring Faith into thing :D)

I agree they were way 2 harsh, and yes buffy should have said something. "hey I need some time away,to think things through." Now I'm sure if she would have said that everyone would have said no..its your duty to be here..to slay..and your young...blah..blah..and she still would have been judged..
At least then she would've given them a chance to understand her. It's not fair of her to just assume they wouldn't understand. And she was the one to abandom them, she is the one who should put some effort into earning their friendship again..

[Bored of the Dead]

While i don't believe that the gang we're right in their handling of Buffy, i do believe they had a right to say what they said.

The problem with this group is, as close as they are, they constantly keep secrets from each other, and this is where the lies. This is how Spike managed so effectively to break the crew up, in the Yoko Factor.

Another thing people forget, even though these people fight demons and act all adult, Willow, Xander, Buffy and Cordelia are still teenagers. Still struggling with emotional,personal and familial issues, and they do believe that they are alone in the world, as most Teenagers do, hence the need to resolve their personal issues.
This also helps to understand why Buffy took Joyce's threat to heart, simply because she has no real frameof reference, other then to take what her mother says as fact.


As for the whole 'Buffy not holding onto issues'...well Like Epo pointed out, there was Faith...granted thats an extreme case, but Buffy, could have tried a little harder to understand where she was coming from....and in Dirty Girls, theres still some animosity towards the 'Rogue Slayer' even though she has served time for her crime AND returned to the fold of the Slayer.

Another instance showing Buffy, may forgive(to an extent) but NEVER forgets, and does use the 'throwing in your face' tactic in Selfless.

XANDER
No, of course not. You think we haven't seen all this before? The part where you just cut us all out. Just step away from everything human and act like you're the law. If you knew what I felt—

BUFFY
I killed Angel! Do you even remember that? I would have given up everything I had to be with— I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life. And I put a sword through his heart because I had to.

WILLOW
And that all worked out OK.

BUFFY
Do you remember cheering me on? Both of you. Do you remember giving me Willow's message: Kick his ass.

WILLOW
I never said that—

XANDER
This is different—



Now, that incident was over 4 years ago, and she still remembers that single line, even though she had so much going on.
This indicates to me, that played on her mind time and again over the years, only difference, she bit her tongue, until she was in a position to use it.

Now, i'm not saying she was wrong to use it, but, to say she does forgive, well, i don't believe so, not entirely....and thats what makes her Human.....


Another time she is pissed off at Giles, when she is turned back to herself after the Faith-Swop, she is annoyed that Giles didnt recognise that 'Buffy' wasn't her but Faith in disguise, even though a few weeks before, Giles had turned into a Demon and she recognised him......

[xxLostSoulxx]

I understand why everyone was upset with Buffy's leaving. Willow needed someone to talk to, but in a way, I think her & Buffy's friendship is different than Buffy's friendship with Xander. It's closer, because they are both girls. Not to say that Buffy doesn't looove Xander just as much, but it's just different. I thought Willow handled the whole situation alot better than Xander did. Xander just got on my nerves. He just doesn't like Angel & his jealousy got really old after a while. He lied to Buffy in Becoming & he was so against bringing Angel back when what Angel had become wasn't his fault or choice. When he called Buffy an idiot, I wanted her to hit him hard. At that point, he had lost nothing & he had no idea what Buffy had gone through or what that would feel like.

[watcher1006]

From the viewpoint of Buffy's friends-they didn't know exactly what had happened in her battle with Angel. From their perspective, Buffy running away may have looked like part of a pattern.

1. Episode "When She Was Bad"-Buffy pushes her friends away, only to realize belatedly that those friends are the targets of the vampires who are trying to resurrect The Master.

2. Episodes "Becoming Pts. I & II"-Buffy goes off to fight Angel by herself, while having Willow try the spell to restore his soul. In the meantime everyone else is left open to the attack by Drusilla and crew. Giles is abducted, Willow is put into the hospital. From Xander's perspective, it may well looked like an attempt by Buffy to control the situation to her liking (not kill Angel if she didn't have to) while leaving everyone else at risk, near disaster once again.

And after that business, Buffy simply flees without telling anyone what had happened, and without caring for her duties as a slayer.

I think that the way her friends acted-avoiding talking to her until Xander basically tells her off -was understandable. What annoyed me was how they planned that awful party for her. If they didn't want to deal with her, they shouldn't have had a party at all.

[Randy Giles]

OK personally I thought Buffy should have PUNCHED Xander, Willow, and her mother. They were all being jackasses to her. Her mother DID basically throw her out of the house in season two, yet she's mad because Buffy really left? Xander was being totally insensitive. Usually I think Buffy overreacts to things but in this case, I understand perfectly why she'd run away. She had SO much thrown on her in such a short time that her friends were real jerks for treating her that way.

On the other hand, Cordy DID actually tried to defend Buffy, who turned around was mean to Cordy, which I thought was uncalled for.

[Charming Slayer]

Yes, I actually think they did. Buffy had just had to kill the love of her life, been kicked out by her mom, and she was wanted for murder. The poor kid was allowed some time to deal, I think.

And, as you guys said, the only person she really owed to talk to was Joyce. The Scoobies, though they may be her friends, have no right really to be mad because she didn't let them know anything.

And, you know, I always wondered why they did bother to pick up the Slaying. It never really made sense. *shrugs*

[spuffylvr]

I think from an outside ADULT perpective they were a bit hard on her, but we are talking about teenagers here, not known for the most rational well thought out behavior. All hormoney and stuff...

The adult (Joyce and Giles) acted as I expected. Joyce was pissed as a mother should and Giles was mostly concerned. Were they too hard on her. yep but that is human isn't it?

[sizzle-sozzle]

I think that Willow acted like any normal person would,she was glad that Buffy was back but there was still that awkwardness between them because they were both going through something and they couldnt talk to eachother about it.and i think when Buffy tried to leave for the second time Willow had the right to act the way she did,and have a go at her,i mean Buffy was just gona leave again.but i think Xander did over react and was a bit mean to Buffy,yes he missed her and they didnt have a clue where she had been for the last few months,but he was coming at Buffy in a whole other direction,he was mad because of Angel being the reason that she left,and he's always been threatened by him.
Ok yes they didnt know where Buffy was but at least they knew that she was alive,because she went home and got her clothes before she left,they should of just understood that she needed to be alone and that she was going through something.they were only teenagers and when Joyce told Buffy to leave if she walked out the door,i think Buffy did what any teenager would do and leave.when we're at that age we dont realise that sometimes things get said that people dont really mean.

[vipersgirl]

Yes, I think the Scoobies acted wrongly. They had no idea what she was going through and to pass judgement so quickly without letting Buffy to open up eventually made me upset during this episode.

[Ladybug]

I don't think it was wrong, I mean, I would've acted that way if she'd been gone and I thought she was going to leave again... well, I would've acted that way if she was going to leave in the first place... but anyway, they definetly were a bit hard on her...

[The Watcher]

Yeah they did. I don't see why they were angry in the first place. It's not like she's gonna get killed. I mean, she's the slayer.

[Bored of the Dead]

Yeah they did. I don't see why they were angry in the first place. It's not like she's gonna get killed. I mean, she's the slayer.

Are you actually stupid or did you take a course?

How is a Slayer called?
Just a quick reminder 'One dies yadda yadda'.
That means Slayers die.

BUT their problem was more to do with the fact that after the big fight she just left. For months there was no contact.
They have a right to be angry at that.
She is supposed to care for them like they care for her.
And to use her mothers 'if you leave this house...' cheesh I cannot count how many times at 16 my parents said that to me then an hour after I walked out, I was sat drinking coffee in the lounge.

[Randy Giles]

Are you actually stupid or did you take a course?

How is a Slayer called?
Just a quick reminder 'One dies yadda yadda'.
That means Slayers die.

BUT their problem was more to do with the fact that after the big fight she just left. For months there was no contact.
They have a right to be angry at that.
She is supposed to care for them like they care for her.
And to use her mothers 'if you leave this house...' cheesh I cannot count how many times at 16 my parents said that to me then an hour after I walked out, I was sat drinking coffee in the lounge.

Her mom had no right to act like Buffy was all in the wrong though because she did basically kick Buffy out.

[Wicked]

Her mom had no right to act like Buffy was all in the wrong though because she did basically kick Buffy out.

No she didnt. I cant count the number of times my parents have said something like that to me when we were arguing. Parents dont mean it when they say stuff like that. There is no way in hell she meant for Buffy to leave and not come back. So when Buffy did leave, shes allowed to be upset!

[watcher1006]

When I saw this episode for the first time I remember watching the scene at the party at Buffy's house where Xander, Joyce, Cordelia, Willow, Oz and all are standing around Buffy and Joyce and Xander are having it out with her. Cordelia coming to Buffy's defense in her argument with Xander, that was great! I thought it was an extremely interesting scene, a necessary one, and I was annoyed because the zombies were closing in to break it up. I was thinking something like "you obnoxious undead, can't you pick a better time??"

[Bored of the Dead]

No she didnt. I cant count the number of times my parents have said something like that to me when we were arguing. Parents dont mean it when they say stuff like that. There is no way in hell she meant for Buffy to leave and not come back. So when Buffy did leave, shes allowed to be upset!

Plus, we have to remember what Joyce had just been told.
Not that Buffy was seeing some guy, or that she had joined a street gang.
She had just been told that her daughter, her 16/17 year old daughter is a Vampire Slayer, a 'one girl in all the world' dealy that must kill the monsters.

With everything that Joyce had been put through in that year, not least finding out Buffy had slept with Angel WHO, it turns out is a Vampire.

Joyces words were more of the motherly 'please stay here, be safe' but she had to be confrontational as a means to seem authoritative.

If Joyce had said anything else and acted any other way that would have been wrong.

[asukafan]

I think Joyce and the others had a right to be mad at buffy for leaving and making them worry, but they practically attacked her in this episode! especially Xander. i really wish Buffy found out that he lied about the spell so she could throw it back in his face. :bite-cha:

[Seven Of Nine]

For the most part, I didn't have too much to say about this episode but I did find several quotes that I thought were either cute or funny, (which I posted all together at the bottom).

Oz tells Buffy that she is no longer wanted for murder, which is good but makes me wonder what evidence did the police have to clear her?

The mask Joyce hangs in the bedroom: Ugly.

At the end when they were ganging up on Buffy... made me uncomfortable. I could only watch it once.

Giles comments on the stench of the cat as he puts the now alive-dead cat in the cage. Sadly I know exactly what he is talking about because a few days before I re-watched this episode, I found a dead kitten near my back door [after a few days of hot weather]. double sad face :bluesad: :(

I loved seeing Giles threaten Snyder.

I thought it was funny at the end when Buffy and Willow call each other names.

------------------------------------------------------
JOYCE: I thought I'd hang a few pieces in here. It cheers up the room.
BUFFY: It's angry at the room. Mom. It wants the room to suffer.
:elol:
------------------------------------------------------

SNYDER: Yes. And while she may live up to the not-a-murderer requirement for enrollment, she is a troublemaker, destructive to school property and the occasional student. And her grade point average is enough to... (PAUSE) I'm sorry. Another tingle moment.

------------------------------------------------------
OZ: We should figure out what kinda deal this is.
I mean, is it a-a gathering, a shindig or a hootenanny? : party2:

CORDELIA: What's the difference?

OZ: Well, a gathering is brie, mellow song stylings -- shindig: dip, less mellow song stylings, perhaps a large amount of malt beverage -- and hootenanny, well, it's chock full of hoot, just a little bit of nanny.
:coolman: ::dance::

------------------------------------------------------
XANDER: (to Joyce) Generally speaking, when scary things get scared: not good. :scared01:

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GILES: You're powerful in local circles, but I believe I can make life very difficult for you, professionally speaking. And Buffy will be allowed back in.

SNYDER: Sorry. I'm not convinced.
Giles grabs him by the lapel and pushes him against the filing cabinet.

GILES: (with a grin) Would you like me to convince you? :evilgrin2

[alexa]

I love Giles' approach to dealing with Buffy's issues. He's awesome.. plus funny 'Look at my mask isn't it pretty! It raises the dead. Pfft, Americans.'
He finds a way of getting her to confide in him, so she can feel better.

[angeldork]

Yes and no. They should have tried to be more understanding, but so should Buffy. She was gone for months, and didn't even bother to give them a call! They had no idea if they were ever gonna see her again, or if she was even alive. I'd be pretty mad myself! And also, we don't know everything that happened that summer between the scoobies. Seemed to me like Wilow had been really upset the whole summer cos she worried so much about Buffy. We all know how protective Xander can be over Willow, and I think that was part of the reason he was so mad.
They all seemed to be avoiding the topic at first, trying not to talk about it. I think they were worried they'd yell at her. But when Willow saw Buffy packing again, she just couldn't hold it in anymore. And when it had first started, Xander couldn't hold back anymore either.
And I also think it was good for them to get it out. If they hadn't, it might have been lying there underneath the surface, and in the long run could have ruined their friendship. Noone should ever bottle up their feelings!

I agree with most of what you said. I don't think that Xander and Willow really thought of the fact that if Buffy had stayed there was still gonna be this distance thing between them. She would've never been able to truly talk about what had happened between her and Angel. I honestly think that if she would've stayed in Sunnydale that odds are she probably would've gotten herself killed. So yes, even though a person should never really runaway from their problems I think that Buffy was right in doing so. Her running away from everything probably saved her life and she doesn't even know it.

[Jaded Wolf]

I thought Xander was way off base with his judgments. Xander told Buffy to kill Angel when that was not the message Willow gave him. He also hurt Willow with his hidden relationship with Cordelia. He really goofed up so many times in Season 2 that to turn around and accuse Buffy of acting wrong I was like, "huh". It's even more funny now when in later episodes he starts the affair with Willow whom he ignored for affection in the previous seasons.

I thought Willow was right with her and the real problem I see here is the fact that Buffy did not tell them what had happened in that final confrontation. Buffy's mom I got sick of though because Joyce did tell Buffy to leave and so she did.

[Joyce Summers]

I thought everyone was in their right to act how they did in this scene, even Buffy.

Buffy did have a lot to deal with and she wouldn't have been able to face up to anybody after everything she had lost. She needed alone, I'm-no one time to, ironically, remember who she was. The whole 'You told me to leave' thing always seemed like an excuse to me for Buffy's real reasons. Whether her Mom had said that anyway, Buffy would have still felt the need to leave because her loss of Angel was too great. So she was right in the sense that no one else would every understand what she went through.

Joyce was right to get mad for her leaving. Like so many of you have said on here- your Mom may say 'walk out and don'r you dare come back', but they never ever really mean it. It's all a matter of pulling rank- she was desperate to keep her daughter safe inside. The same daughter who a second before had defiantly just said 'You can't stop me'. Then she tries to move on, and just forget it all when Buffy returns only to find Willow arguing with her because Buffy is going to just up and leave again. Damn right she'd get angry. She's a Mother who didn't know where her daughter was for months. That's a kind of intense worry few will ever experience and then when Buffy is gonna leave again, yeah, that worry and upset turns to anger.

As for Xander. We know he's the heart of the Scoobies so not only did he feel his own betrayal and worry but he also knew Willow's and Joyce's and Giles'. So he was mad on behalf of everyone. As when Buffy tells Joyce 'I didn't do this to punish you!', Xander is the one who says 'Well, you did. You should have seen what you put her through'. Xander is angry at Buffy because of what she put everyone else through more than everything. He's going into his role of white knight guy again.

And Willow- yes she's gonna be mad because like she said; Buffy was her best friend. And she wasn't there for her all those months. All Buffy cared about was herself; even when she returned she didn't ask about Willow, only worried about herself. I'm not saying she didn't have reasons it's just that was going to really hurt Willow's feelings. And after being gone for so long, Buffy expects Will to just drop everything she'd planned to hang out with her. And then on top of that just as Willow's coming to try and make nice again she finds Buffy once more packing to leave.

They were all within their right. Just the feelings had been bottled up for so long that when Buffy started packing again everyone just snapped. It took a zombie attack to make them come together fluidly; doesn't matter what they've been through, they still care about one another.

[bob6666]

they had know idea if she was alive or death they were worried

if xander and willow and oz did not fight there would be a lot more body. what would be better for buffy( buffy you ran away and 10 people die or 100 ) they were trying to help, and the first think buffy did was make fun of xander (name nighthowk)

they were nice to her till she wanted to run away again. they they just lost it.

buffy broke there trust when she let angel kill alot of people.

and if she would have said run away the watcher or ptb or the demon would have kill her,

[Bangelxx]

I thought they acted a little harshly, I was so mad at Xander for a while after that! Although-they DID have a point.

[disco biscuit]

Yeah, I think they were a little hard on her...but the only person that really asked for it was Joyce. Still, she had it coming, since she didn't even bother to call or anything.

Anyway, Buffy has a lot of episodes that remind me of Oingo Boingo songs. xD Dead Man's Party is a song by them, and Some Assembly Required reminds me of Weird Science. Bahh, I'm just a music nerd.

[Dlou444]

I don't think they were too harsh at ALL! I was furious at her in Anne.
To just take off and leave knowing the fate of Sunnydale, possibly the world, and all the people she loved were in jeopardy without her there.

Sure, she was upset and she had to kill Angel. And that might lead to running away. But, not STAYING away and not just not calling and letting everyone try and to keep things together without her. What they did was NO WHERE NEAR as harsh as if she'd come back to find a world like in "The Wish", which is very well what could have happened.

And, when she GOT home, she didn't want to talk about her reasons or explain anything. Which is what also got her in trouble. She just wanted people to be happy to see her.

It's childish and, fine, she was a child. But part of acting childish when your a child is not being treated like an adult. She screwed up and should have been called on it. Just saying, "You don't know what I've been through" doesn't cut it. Of COURSE, they didn't know...no one told them. And she didn't know what THEY had been through.
And although she was welcomed home in quite a gracious fashion, she didn't think it was gracious enough and wanted to bolt again without taking her dues for doing something really stupid.

[bob6666]

i think they may have not acted the best but they do love her and would do anythink for her.

lets look at it just form xander point of view.

xander is visting joyce and she is so sad, he is trying to make her smile.
willow is sad xander is trying to make smile. giles is out of it

xander in friends are fight vampies and do a ok job but some are getting away, so that means that his friends are dying and he cant do anythink about it

everybody forgets that xander grow up and sunnydale so some of the vampire he has to kill are his frends form when he was kid.

he is worried about the girl (buffy) that he would gladly die for.

firends are deing he can same everyone but he tries. buffy come back he tell her he love her. she is cold to him, does not tell him what happen.

they throw her a party, to help then he finds walk in when joyce is yelling at her for running away again with out telling anyone.

then he just lost it. and started yelling.

after that he was there for her again trying to help her and be there for her,

not immagion joyce and willow point of view can you see how this is hard for them.


xander kill his best friend is childhood, and some of the vimpire he had to kill her friend for school that he has know all is life, he can understand some. and most of the season he was there for buffy, trying to help.

but every one remember the one bad think he said and not the 50 nice think he done.
he is not perfect but is there any doubt that he would die for her, do anythink for her,

[InsaneMystic]

I think they were WAY too harsh. The only one I can even relate to is Willow, she does have a good point in what she says (especially since she doesn't know about the infamous "message of hers" Xander delivered) - though her timing and wording are far from ideal.

Joyce and Xander, in my opinion, had it more than coming to them and should have kept their little mouths humbly shut here. I know I'm VERY partial when it comes to Joyce, but I simply won't listen to any justification of the kicking out situation. She basically got what she asked for and now refuses taking responsibility and instead goes dishing out guilt trips to anyone else... yay, go girl. ::grrr:: Really makes me wonder just who's the immature teenager in that house.

And Xander? Three words: "Kick his ass." Much as I usually like him, here he of all people has got no right in the world accusing anyone of being selfish.

Apart from that, the whole idea of the party - with lots of people there who have got no idea what this is about, and aren't allowed to find out either - is as outright stupidly avoidant as can be... A subconscious message of "You didn't talk to us, so we now make sure we have no opportunity to have to talk to you." I really can relate to Buffy going straight back to packing up again; had it remained the way she's make to feel "welcome", she has nothing to stay for except a) her self-righteous mom and b) the concept of "Slayer duty" - and I've always felt that duty alone was never enough of a motivation for her (just compare her to Kendra... and that girl just got killed!), she needed support of friends to keep her going, and those friends simply aren't there anymore in any way but physical existence when she comes back.

Don't get me wrong, they definitely SHOULD have had a long sincere talk about what happended, and yes, that most certainly includes Buffy (whose later secrecy about feral Angel's return is dumb-to-the-third-power...); but time and setting here are just so totally, totally WRONG, and - at least to me - so are the attitudes of Xander & Joyce.

[lollups]

This episode marked the first and only time i was ever pissed off at willow, and the first of many times that i hated xander (i love him 97% of the time,but he can be a wanker!) they were way to harsh, except for the ever cool and amazing Oz.

[Relic]

This is one of my favorite episodes and the reasoning for that is all about Giles. As far as the question at hand... he is the one Scooby that doesn't get in her face, for that matter he is very leniant in my opinion. That plays a part in the story that is telling to me. Giles handeled it as a mature collected person seeing both sides, I still almost cry when i see him almost crying at his excused exit to get the tea. He handeled it both like a watcher and friend, and gets bonus points for the best line of the episode "Don't you like my mask? Isn't it pretty? It raises the dead!....Americans."

As for the rest I'll try to explain where I think they are coming from:

Joyce sort of angered me in this episode, but I could somewhat understand why she acted as she did. There are no two characters in this episode closer than Joyce and her daughter, yet she joins a freaking book club when Buffy goes missing for what.... 3 months?!? She doesn't recall the ultimatum she gave Buffy and feel responsible for her absence...or maybe she does?

In her defense, she was dealing with the whole super power thing and her daughter being in continual danger, and thankfully as a parent I don't know what thats like- completely- but I imagine that would make you irrational and do things to 'protect' you and yours.

Joyce seems to always try to inject normalcy into her daughters life....maybe the book club and taking the disappearance so lightly/assuming that her daughter had run away as opposd to being kidnapped or killed by Vampires/what not.... was just her way of continuing to do so? To protect herself, to insure herself Buffy had in fact ran away and would come back....or at the very least was still alive. Her anger gets a pass at any rate, it was the other behavior that made me stop and wonder where the writers were coming from. (As usual it made sense)

Oz gets no pass for being the cool one, as he has his own inner deamon to contend with and is new to the scoobies and I honestly think he lets Willow talk for him in this case.

Xander is angry at Buffy for a reason besides her making him become "Night Hawk" and putting the crew in danger by shirking her responsibilities.. Lets not forget what he told Buffy about his intrest in Cordy in a prior episode, he says something akin to....the only other girl I'm interested in is taken. Taken being Buffy...plus remember what how Buffy treated him in "When She Was Bad" in season two's opener? Xander is still somewhat in love with Buffy at this point, at least I think deep down he is. (Lets face facts, in this season his love for Cordy gets comprimised, who's to say Willow is the only one who could do that?) I think he feels rejected, much like Willow does, but more so. He thinks that not only did Buffy not have faith in him as friends to deal with all she had gone through at the end of season two, but she also did not have any faith in him at all. I think he felt abandoned and not good enough on a whole other level than Willow, thus he was a butt head more so than her. Women don't have the market cornered on the whole lover scorned deal.

At the same time, what other posters have said is very true; he was very worried about her and probably resented the 'stupidity' of her actions putting them all in danger when she bailed.

Onto Willow.....Willow said it best 'You were my best friend' and then she had to deal with life without Buffy. She saw in Buffy a role model, an uber person, but most importantly another person other than Xander. Xander had been her friend for how long, yet Buffy gets the digs of 'Best' in two seasons? I can't say why except that perhaps Buffy acted as a filter for Willow to understand/cope with her old feeling with Xander. She could not exactly talk about her feeling for him to him. there are all those changes she was going through too, like falling in love with Oz and coming socially into her own. She was left with Buffy's responsibilities and a new social life to contend with alone too, all beacuse her hero and friend fell from grace in eyes by making a monumental mistake, one she caught her repeating....thus willow reacted as she did.

As an observer it is easy to say they were to harsh, but thats what makes it so real despite the vampires and why i espeacially love this episode. How many people are we too harsh on before the days end during our lives? To an outside observer anyone can be a jack-bag because they can not feel what the person they are judging are feeling.

Were they two hard, I'd say yes. I think giles handeled it best, Joyce too, all things considered.

Xander and Willow reacted like i would knowing what they know, so even if it was harsh, i could certainly understand where they were coming from.

[DrusillaRox]

ithink they acted a little harshley, but the only person I really felt sorry for was jonothan!

[Dlou444]

I don't think they would have had to act so nutty if Buffy had just taken a few minutes to think about how they felt. Instead, she just seemed to be thinking about herself and what she felt and wanted. I think that made them even MORE upset.
I know it would have made ME more upset!

[oldman45]

I find it impossible to watch this episode along with Empty Places because they are far too harsh in both episodes.

As far as this episode is concerned.

Buffy had been:-
Expelled from school.
Told by her Mother not to come back.
Was being hunted by the police for murder.
Had just effectively killed the person she loved most of all despite his having his soul restored.

Although her friends did not know about Angel having his soul restored. They knew the rest of it so they should not have been so harsh.

Also if she had stayed she would have been arrested by the police. Who knows how long she would have been kept in custody before they accepted she was innocent.

[littlewilly]

Exactly^^ They were all far too harsh. Joyce just had a total cheek to be acting that way, she was the one that kick Buffy out.
And even before the big argument at the party Willow and Xander were ignoring/avoiding Buffy which was just childish.

[Crazy Flakes]

Sorry if anyone else has said this; I'm too lazy to read through all five pages.

Well, my initial reaction was to say that the Scoobies did, in fact, act wrongly, but now, I think that, in the episode, they were still sort of getting over the shock that Buffy was in Sunnydale again. You can see it from the very beginning, when they first see that she's back; you're expecting a big, happy, hug-filled reunion, but instead, they just stand back and bask in her presence. They had to spend the duration of the episode adjusting to her being there again, and by the end of the episode, the shock seemed to have cleared.

[LifeIsJustThis]

ithink they acted a little harshley, but the only person I really felt sorry for was jonothan!

In response to your siggy, DrusillaRox,
Conner was a little bit... pretty I dare say :)

[SamZie021]

I think the scoobies and buffy were both right in what they were saying, but both wrong aswell, how could they understand what buffy had gone thru wen she never told them, but what buffy did go thru was awful, i think i sided with both on that one, i think it was funny when buffy told cordy to get out of her shoes tho!! haha

[kater]

The scoobies really annoyed me in this episode. I get that they felt that they needed to step up, but in all reality, there was a hellmouth in Sunnydale long before the Slayer got there, it's not like they had to do it. And I really feel that the only people that have a right to talk to Buffy like that are her mom and Giles. I mean, they're the ones who should be the most concerned and honestly, she's the SLAYER, what is really going to happen to her? Barring vamps or some kind of other scary thing, it's not like she needs to worry about getting mugged or anything. Had Buffy just called I'm sure things would have been different but frankly she was having kind of a crappy week, so I don't blame her all that much. I think they should have backed off.

[LaneMeyer]

I side with Buffy in this episode primarily because I think the scoobies treated her poorly since she returned. She was in need of more intimate reconnecting with her friends. I don't blame her too much for packing up to leave again. Look at what she got hit with:

1) Willow stands her up basically at the coffee shop - sure, there was no ill will there, but Buffy was already overly sensitive about it and this was just the start.
2) During the party, it was obvious that Xander and Willow were more concerned about making out with Cordy or watch Oz play. Buffy wanted to talk with Willow, even dragged her away from in front of the band just to get in a couple words, and Willow was obviously more concerned with watching Oz then trying to make amends (something she FINALLY did in Buffy's bedroom).
3) So, Buffy's feeling bad and then stumbles on her mother saying "It was almost easier when she wasn't here."

Her friends are ignoring her (for the most part) and she's basically a stranger in her own home, surrounded by all these people that don't even know her. It wasn't until she saw Buffy packing that Willow finally gave Buffy a chance to have a heart-to-heart with her. How come Willow didn't show her that kind of time before the party or even during? It would have made a huge difference.

Xander was just straight up annoying. During the argument, Buffy was trying to have discourse 1-on-1 with people, and Xander would just interrupt... I wish Buffy would have decked him. There's only two people that Buffy should have apologized to and that's Joyce and Giles. Even so, my sympathies only go so far with Joyce. If you lay down an ultimatum like she did at the end of season 2, you better be prepared to be called on it...

Incidentally, Giles seemed to be the only one that felt Buffy's pain. No one else cared to look at it from her point of view. This even extends into episode 3, when he continuously attempts to get Buffy to "let it out" for the "spell" he was working on. Willow didn't even pick up on it... he did all that for Buffy's benefit, and it's a touching sentiment. The rest of the Scoobs just forgot about it or never cared.

[angeldork]

I think that there were probably wrongs committed on both sides. Maybe Buffy shouldn't of ran away, but if I were in her position I probably would've done the exact same thing. She's already alone because she the slayer and then there was Angel. Angel was the one person that she loved more than anything and she sent him to hell. The one person that she could really count on. I think that when she came back her mom wasn't as compassionate as maybe she should've been. Her friends weren't as compassionate as they should've been either. She felt that they couldn't relate and couldn't help and she's probably right. All she had in that situation was herself. You she felt completely and utterly alone. We have seen that that beyond this occasion that her friends aren't as great as they should be. I think that essentially the one person that has loved her unconditionally throughout the entire series of Buffy was Angel. He could relate to her, somewhat understand what she was going through. If the show was still on, Buffy, Xander, and Willow should've really had a big sit down about their friendships with each other.