The Master: Great Villain or Rubbish Villain?

[Low Rats]

I recently had an argument about this on the secret Buffy board on Gamefaqs....

I personally enjoyed the Master in season 1 immensely, I felt he was THE ultimate Vampire and the Turok-hans couldn't hold a candle to himin later seasons. He was evil, pure evil and he wanted to take over the world. Astoundingly complex character for the first season and it was pulled off well.

His evilness is fantastic when he drowns Buffy, the look on his face is deliciously.....evil.

So whaddya reackon? Did you like the old Master or think he was a glorified bogstandard vampire?

[Edmund Blackadder]

I think that the Master was THE perfect foe for Buffy season 1......after Season 2 he would have been a bit of a Joke, but season one his presence, his whole M.O was great...
Plus he was funny......

[Allycat]

He was good at the time, but he doesn't compare to the likes of Glory and many of the other villains too. He was the perfect foe for the occasion though!

[SpikedBuffy]

Allycat, you're right. I was going to post that The Master was great (I liked his sarcasm and point of view), but when I thought of other Villians, he didn't really compare.

The Master provided a great foe for Buffy. And who doens't like leather? :)

[Kimm]

I liked him....but I couldn't stand the stains around his mouth....they reminded me of Kool Aid stains. :yikes:

[Allycat]

The Master provided a great foe for Buffy. And who doens't like leather? :)

Sorry, but... dead cow! :(

[Jenny]

Hmm I can't help but feeling like the Master didn't get to show his full potential though..what with being trapped pretty much the entire time (save in The Wish..and look how he had turned Sunnydale around when he got out...it would be an interesting story from when he escaped to that eppy).

But he seemed a vamp who let his cronies do alot of the work without getting his own hands really dirty.

[drtroy]

Good points..I thought the same thing..I would have loved to have saw him fight more.

[VisionGuy]

Like some people pointed out, I think that the Master was a perfect villian for season 1. But if he would have been the big bad of a later season it would kinda be corny. I mean I honestly think that season 5 Buffy can dust him without much trouble. Probably even season 3 Buffy (Not Wishverse Buffy.)

[SpikedBuffy]

Like some people pointed out, I think that the Master was a perfect villian for season 1. But if he would have been the big bad of a later season it would kinda be corny. I mean I honestly think that season 5 Buffy can dust him without much trouble. Probably even season 3 Buffy (Not Wishverse Buffy.)

Good point! The way he interacted with Buffy in season one showed the 'weaker' side of Buffy. After that, we saw the "Slayer".

[Doyle]

The Master was really cool. I liked the way his TARDIS' chameleon circuit really worked, unlike the Doctor's, and he would turn up unexpectedly just about anywhere. Both Roger Delgado and Anthony Ainley were excellent as the Master.

[Allycat]

The Master was really cool. I liked the way his TARDIS' chameleon circuit really worked, unlike the Doctor's, and he would turn up unexpectedly just about anywhere. Both Roger Delgado and Anthony Ainley were excellent as the Master.

Tut-tut-tut, didn't your mother ever tell you not to do drugs? ;) Just kidding... though I *am* curious as to what exactly you are talking about!?!

[Edmund Blackadder]

He is on about the Master...just a different Master. Both Delago and Ainley played the Master in....dun dun dun....Dr Who...tha TARDIS was a bit of a give away.....

[Hero]

I think The Master fit into season 1 PERFECTLY. His character was stronger than any other enemies in that season, but at the same time there was something nonthreatning and sometimes comical to him. The first season was meant to be easy, I think. It wasn't meant to be really serious like Season 5, 6, and 7 were meant to be. So I think he was a great villain for that season.

[SlayerShel]

I think The Master fit into season 1 PERFECTLY. His character was stronger than any other enemies in that season, but at the same time there was something nonthreatning and sometimes comical to him. The first season was meant to be easy, I think. It wasn't meant to be really serious like Season 5, 6, and 7 were meant to be. So I think he was a great villain for that season.


Exactly what I was thinking! Season 1 was almost like a party compared to later on.

[+ Matt +]

*Goes with the crowd* He would only fit into Season One...I mean, would he really be able to defeat Caleb or Glory?

I disagree when you say that the Turok-hans couldn't hold a candle to him - they looked worse and fought better (from what I gather). Also, the vampires were said to fear them, so that must include The Master.

[Soozy-18]

I agree, the Master was a good beginning to the first series, but he was too easy. But then again, they werent goin to go all out with a better character like Adam or the Mayor until they were sure on making another series, there would have been no point!

For the first series the Master does quite nicely...... hes old school now!

[Randy Giles]

The Master is awesome, I thought he was a perfect choice for Buffy's first season-long villain.

[SlayerG07]

Well, at the time, I would agree with the idea that he was the best foe for Buffy to go up against. However, if you judge the character by looking at all the other Big Bads in the seven seasons, he would def be the weakest of them all IMO. The Big Bad, tahnkfully, got bigger and better every season, therefore, he wasnt the best... He was my least favorite out of them all, personally.

[Summers Blood]

Well I have to agree that the Master was a good enemy for the time but I think he would not be very scary in later seasons.

I also agree that it would have been interesting to see him as an enemy for Buffy without the problem of him been imprisoned.

I think that if he had been able to come above ground then Buffy could have died a lot sooner. I get the feeling that the Master had so much more evil potential than we saw.

[Cordelia Chase*]

Ahhhh!!!! Summers Blood I totally agree!!!!!!! The Master did have alot of potential, but unfortunately for Heinrich Joseph Nest, he got trapped by an earthquake!!! Yah!!!!!!! Dead Buffy=sucks!!!!!!

[Randy Giles]

Well I have to agree that the Master was a good enemy for the time but I think he would not be very scary in later seasons.

I also agree that it would have been interesting to see him as an enemy for Buffy without the problem of him been imprisoned.

I think that if he had been able to come above ground then Buffy could have died a lot sooner. I get the feeling that the Master had so much more evil potential than we saw.

Yeah same here. Would've been AWESOME to see him unleashed upon Sunnydale. Ah well, the show's budget was probably too small back then anyway...

[jasmyne]

I think that the master was a bad person his plan was to kill people and buffy summers.

I think that the master was a bad person because when he was in sunnydale,california he was a bloodsucking beast who kill buffy the first but then she made him meet mr pointy but he was a bad guy!!!!!!!

I think the master was bad but he was still doing his thang he was abloodsucking!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Randy Giles]

Yep. That he was, jasmyne, that he was.

[Summers Blood]

Well he was a vamp so what do you expect? Of course he was going to be evil.

Did you think he was good or rubbish though? I think he was a great villian. As stated above.

[Jules]

Looking back, I don't think he was that good of a villian. He obviously wielded a lot of power, because even trapped as he was, he still had other vampires doing his will. But we didn't really get to see him do anything.

He was well fitted for the first season, like the majority of people have said, but for me he wasn't very intimadating.

[doppelgänger]

The whole thing with The Master was that he was evil? Otherwise, there had been no BtVS season 1 & 2?

[Randy Giles]

I think the master was bad but he was still doing his thang he was abloodsucking!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the vampire world, the thang that they do is usually sucking blood...that's why they're vampires. : grin :

[Randy Giles]

I'm watching "Prophecy Girl" right now...I *LOVE* how the master causes the earthquake and then laughs and screams maniacally, suddenly stops, looks at that little kid, and says, "What do you think? A 5.1?" LMAO

[SpikedBuffy]

I agree. I think the good thing about the Master was his humor. He always had something funny, which kinda made you like him a little bit.

[SMG14Fan]

I loved the master. He was one of my favorite villians from the show.

[Mango]

I am going to agree with everyone else and say that he was a great villain for season one, but he wouldn't have fitted into later seasons, when Buffy was becoming more powerful and mature. She went through alot worse than The Master.

[Xin Rong]

He was in theory a good villain but i never really got the big deal because he wasnt really that tough, i mean the second time without his hypno power thing buffy killed him relatively easy. Maybe the only reason he survived for so long is becase he was constantly hiding in sewers and stuff

[Another Apocalypse?]

Yeah, the Master was great. For the first season, he was a cool Big Bad. Probably the weakest though, sizing him up against the others;

Season 1: The Master
Season 2: Angelus (kick ass) Spike and Dru.
Season 3: The Mayor
Season 4: Adam
Season 5: Glory
Season 6: The Trio (The Master would beat them, but then there's Dark Willow
Season 7: (Here's the doozy) The FIRST EVIL dudes!


So, in conclusion, the Master, great while he lasted, but up against Buffy in later seasons, Mr Dusty.

[Randy Giles]

I loved the Master, he was interesting.

[The Master]

As you've probably noticed I'm a big fan of The Master.

I know where people are coming from when they say that The Master is weaker compared to the other "Big Bads". When Buffy the Vampire Slayer began they needed an original villain. They needed somebody who was evil, menancing and determined on causing the Apocalypse. What better to battle against a Vampire Slayer than a Vampire King?

The Master is the oldest and most powerful vampire that ever walked the Earth. He's intelligent, unpredictable, sly and cunning. There's also a slight comic element as well which causes one to feel uneasy. If he had not been imprisoned for so long I'm sure Buffy would have faced an even stronger and more powerful Master. The Master founded the Order of Aurelius a Vampire Cult consisting of the strongest vampires. He sired Darla and was the obvious victor in a small fight with Angelus. He killed Buffy and opened the Hellmouth and was extremely close to achieving his goal of releasing the Old Ones. Even when he was killed his bones remained for a possible resurrection which is a tribute to just how great a vampire he is.

As for The Master being weaker than the other "Big Bads". If you put it into perspective then you'll find that he actually isn't. We know The Master would defeat Angelus, Spike and Drusilla with incredible ease as he's already fought Angelus before. The Master would probably see the Mayor trying to turn into an Old One as a mockery to his religion and would have gotten his vampire servants to murder him before he achieved invincibility. He would probably have difficulty facing Adam but he would eventually destroy him as a result of his sheer determination to do just that. He'd probably help Glory get back to her dimension but if he came into combat with her then yes he would be killed. Obviously he'd kill The Trio and he would probably defeat Wicked Willow as well with his knowledge of Prophecy and Ancient Ritual. The First Evil is part of The Master it flows through him and he flows through it as well. But if we're looking at who can cause the best Apocalypse then yes The First Evil would be victorious. Ubervamps are in no way stronger than The Master. In "Chosen" Dawn and Xander can kill them easily and also they possess primal intelligence. It's The Master's intelligence and ingenuity that would help him to succeed.

Obviously if the Buffy of Season Seven fought The Master he would be easily defeated. By that point she's far more experienced and better skilled. Plus, each year they try to make the villains "Tougher" than their predecessors. But The Master is in my opinion the best villain. You just need to look at the flashback sequences to see how much of a devil he can be. That's my view on the subject...

[The Watcher]

He was great. Nothing wrong with him IMO. Didn't do much for a while though. Just sat in his chair lol.

[bucky01403]

He was a good villian, but i agree with the posts above. He wouldnt of fared to well in later seasons. At least he was funnny.

[Edmund Blackadder]

He was great. Nothing wrong with him IMO. Didn't do much for a while though. Just sat in his chair lol.

ARCANE!!! WHY DID YOU CHANGE YOUR NAME.
Your previous name was something I associated with well structured comment worthy of discussion.....now its ruined.

Anyway, to the above post.
So in your opinion there was nothing wrong with the Master but then you have a little whine that he didn't do much for a while.

Arcane, I hate you:)

[nerd4hire]

Welcome to the boards The Watcher. I think you'll find some of us are less cranky than others. I'm enjoying your posts. Have fun.

[Cordelia Chase*]

The Master was a excellent villian. Whether 12 episodes of Buffy or 24 for its first season, the Master was amazing!

[Ladybug]

I am sorry, but I personally hated The Master. I have no reason, I just did, ok? No questions.

[Randy Giles]

I am sorry, but I personally hated The Master. I have no reason, I just did, ok? No questions.

Question: Why did you hate The Master? :smoke2:

[asukafan]

like others have said, i think he was a great choice for season 1, but he doesn't compare to most of the others that came after him. however, at least he was funny as well as menacing, which is more than can be said for adam or the first.

[Luciferian]

The master was cool. hehe "im not going to get a bat nose like that now am i?"

[QuietStillSadLove]

I liked him, very good for season one

[Giants Rule 04]

I was never really impressed with the Master. We don't get to see him fight much and he did not prove himself to be anything incredibly serious. He was a good villain for that time of the show, but Buffy from later seasons would've killed him without breaking a sweat.

[bitca4]

Hm... I don't know... I think he was kind of a rubbish villan! I really don't know... he just doesn't seem like a very good villian... compared to the other ones... So, I don't know!

[Fallen Angelus]

I liked the Master - one of the only things I did like about Season 1.

In the same way that Buffy put their own spins on mummies and Frankenstein's monster, I thought the Master was a nice spin on Dracula (that is, a king vampire). Then Buffy vs. Dracula came around and ruined that little allusion but...oh well.

As others have said, Buffy from the later seasons probably wouldn't have had much of a challenge in fighting him.

[Shadow Weaver]

Hate leads to the Dark Side, Ladybug. You should let go of your hate and embrace The Master. Learn to love him or you may soon be consumed by the ferocity of your own loathing and become like him.

[BuffBuff]

i liked him! i thought he was very comical at times-- (when the earthquake happens in 1.12) "Yes! YES! Shake, Earth! This is a sign! We are in the final days! My time has come! Glory! GLORY! Whadaya think? 5.1?" haha! love it.

for how season 1 was set up, he was the right tye of villian for buffy to face: a new slayer coming into her powers, into this whole new world, who better than a supreme vampire to face?

[TabulaRasa]

I really liked the master.

[bucky01403]

The Master ruled.

I liked how he actually killed Buffy, ironically since he was the weakest big bad.

[MLLamble]

The Master was a good villain, especially for the first season. He wouldn't be as good in later seasons unless they developed him a little more. Also, it's good that he died at the end of season 1, because the series would have gotten monotonous if it was just one episode after another of the Master sending someone to kill Buffy.

[littlewilly]

I loved the Master, he was a great BigBad, it would have been good if he was the big bad in one of the later seasons, and he got more screen time and a bigger story. I loved the idea behind it, the oldest vampire on record with amazing power, tbh, season 1 didnt really do justice to such a great character.

[pernilleborup]

RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

[Atren]

I think majority underestimates him, i rate him rather high personally among big bads.

[BASBritt]

I really liked the Master's character as played by Mark Metcalf, but I thought the whole stuck underground thing was really hokey. For that reason, he was never really scary to me.

[sosa lola]

I didn't like him. I thought he was so much of a show off.

[scobro]

I really liked the Master's character as played by Mark Metcalf, but I thought the whole stuck underground thing was really hokey. For that reason, he was never really scary to me.

If he wasnt stuck underground Buffy would have beat him up every week, like she did Spike, and he would have lost his appeal. He was too ugly to be a good guy, so they put him underground.

[The Ferg]

I really liked him. He was so funny!

[hannahfngrl26]

Personally I felt the master was an excellent villain. He was classic scary which makes me appreciate what he had to offer to the story line.

[fly on the wall]

I think The Master could have been way better, if the show had been developed enough at that point to fully develop him, give him a real arc, etc.

But all in all, I liked him.

[DarkAvenger]

i didn't like him so much.. but it was the 1st season.. and he wasn't horrible!!! i just think he could have been much better.. ;)

[Pink Slayer]

I agree with what alot of other people have written. I think that The Master was a brilliant Villian for season one, I love his sarcasm and I remember I found him quite scary! lol But yeah, compared to who we have in further series, like Glory, he does'nt seem as threatening.

[Spuffy78]

I think with the lack of time for his character to develop like other villians like The Mayor and Glory we never really got a true idea of his character. Given the fact that he has the name "Master" people's expecations were higher and I remeber originally watching it being suprised when he died as soon as he did.

[white avenger]

The Master was a good opponent for Season 1 Buffy. Later on, he would have been much less of a challenge as the Slayer gained more skill and experience.

[Clem]

I think it was good to have The Master as the "Big Bad" in season one just because of the fact that when you hear "Buffy The Vampire Slayer", you usually (I would assume anyway) think of vampires, and to have another type of demon be the big scare in the pilot season I think would be a bad idea. Not to say that having other demons is bad, but for the big bad in the first season should be a vampire, and not some other species.
Picture the Mayor as the villain of the season. Doesn't that feel a bit weird?

[Darling]

I think his the classic villain for vampire series, it´s cool that he´s the firts Big Bad we know.
He´s evil, has that creepy face cause he´s too old, it´s like "I was at the crucifiction" style, but we believe in this one.

[Alexannah]

I think the Master was a bit too stereotypical. I can't remember much about the first time I saw the first series, but I wasn't too scared by him, and during the hypno-thing I was just thinking "for goodness' sake, just stake him!". (BTW, why exactly didn't the hypno-thing work on Buffy after she died when it did before?) I don't really remember many classic quotes from him, like with the other villians, except for the one about the earthquake. However, as a beginning villian, he wasn't bad; I'm just glad the others were more original.

[Librarian Giles]

I thought he was a great villain, who came with a good story back round. Just wish we got to see more out of him, but it was awesome how he dies. But what is with the fruit punch mouth? C'mon mate you been on this earth for how long? At least have the manners to wipe your mouth after a meal?


How old was the master anyway? Like nosferatu old?

[atticus]

Not many episodes, and he was trapped for most of them, but i'm still a big fan, one of the coolest looking vampires, freaky and funny, always good. Would have been cool to see him in a 22 episode run. I actually think he might have been the biggest big bad, he did kill Buffy. - Twice, if you count the wish. The other villains just took to damn long, the major, glory, faith, adam, angelus, spike and dru, the first. Look you know where she lives, have at it, would you, and stop fluttering about. ... master was pretty much, i'm gonna try my best to get free, and when i do, i'm gonna kill you until you die from it :)

[palabravampiress]

I liked the Master. I liked how he wasn't a fluffy wuffy modern vampire with the uber hotness and whatnot, but seemed more scary, evil, and Nosferatu-like. He was still funny, though, and he had human emotions, which I thought was neat. I also liked how his method of minion control and his mindset was very much grounded in ritual and religion. It made him feel very medieval. He seemed more like a "classic" vampire with a funny Buffy spin, which I thought made a good Big Bad for Buffy's first season.

[KingFelix]

I think he was a great villain and perfect for Season 1. Despite being trapped, he had plenty of followers that obviously feared and respected him, and were willing to carry out his bidding. When he does finally break free(due to events that he orchestrated), he kills Buffy. If Xander hadn't shown up and given her CPR, there would have been no Season 2.

Also, in "The Wish", we get a taste of what things would have been like if he had gotten free. He pretty much ends up taking over Sunnydale, and when Buffy finally does show up to face him, he kills her then as well.

I think in terms of sheer strength, villains like Adam or Glory might come out on top, but I think Buffy has proven time and again that strength alone does not win the battle.

[PurplePoof]

The Master was a bit cartoony (but then again a lot of the Big Bads sorta were) but he fit the atmosphere of season 1 perfectly.

[WatcherByBirthright]

I also thought the Master was a particularly strong villain for the first season, you instantly suspect a scheming, sinister, vampire badass to be the 'Big Bad' if you were first getting into the show. Considering 'Prophecy Girl' was the first episode I saw, maybe I'm a bit biased, but I thought the build-up to his eventual release was superb. It was great seeing him used in 'The Wish' and flashbacks, his status as Buffy's first major enemy (not to mention Mark Metclaf's great preformance) definitely merited it. It's a shame he wasn't used as The First more in the last season, instead of the overused idea of Buffy, would have been a great way to bring the notion of a Big Bad full circle.

[Floop695]

I liked The Master, purely for his comic value.

The Series had such rediculously unrealistic features and themes that it would have been hard to draw in a large audience (or at least, a mixed audience) if it were too dark and serious. Season 1 and The Master had just the right mix to lure in the lovers of all things dark, as well people who just enjoy a good laugh. Things steadily got more and more dark and serious (in my opinion) and while we still got the comedy (the Joss-Factor, if you will) things got more complex and threatening.

I think if they'd begun with a "bigger" bad guy, a lot of people (myself included- considerring the fact that I was a child) would have ceased watching for reasons such as too complex a storyline for characters we're still trying to get to know, or too scary a season for comedy lovers etc.

I talk too much ^^