Why did Wolf Ram and Hart bring back Darla?

[M-a-r-c]

I dont remember if it was ever stated the actual reason for her return.

Was it because they thought she could get Angel to loosse his soul? Because surely if the Mayor from Buffy can get in contact with a soul extractor (welll....a double crossing one) so WRH could get one with their contacts.

Was it to fullfill the darla+angel=connor, connor+cordelia=jasmine prophecy. Because I swear I remember WRH being shocked that she got pregnant, and stuff.(darla that is)

I honestly cant remember and I've got so many new dvds for xmas to watch (roswell and firefly) that I aint got time to watchh the whole of season 2 to find out!

So does anyone know if it was ever cleared up as to why she was brought or got any theories?

[Black Eye Guy]

I am drawing a blank!!!

I think it was to mess with Angel, it was definitely not the Jasmine thing cuz they were surprised about the pregnancy thing, and they opposed Jasmines apocalypse

[RockManic]

Wolfram and Hart brought back Darla in order to mess with Angel's mind. They didn't necessarily want him soulless and evil, they just needed him in a grey area so that they could tempt him over to the dark side when the time came.

They knew that Angelus would be too hard to manipulate and too difficult to control so insead they used Darla, someone they knew that Angel cared for but would also be willing to work with them, to try and corrupt Angel with his soul intact. To make him give up the good fight of his own choosing. That would truly allow him to go either way in the Apocalypse that the Senior Partners were planning, as was prophesized in the Shanshu.

[Angel's vision]

I agree with the watcher here, and any case he didn't react the way in which they expected either!

Also Darla knew Angel well so she was ideal to manipulate him.

[THE BLUE]

To mess with Angel, I think. Imho, Spike would make a good choice for that then. :D

[Tucker's Cousin]

I think it did work for a time. In messing with Angel's head, I mean. Darla and Drusilla took him to place that was probably darker than any we ever saw him in. I'm sure WR&H would have been satisfied if he had've stayed there.

[Saint Edward]

Yes, but eventually he had his "epiphany" and realized he couldn't save her.

[codyw1]

I've rewatched most of season 2 over the last week, and you know, I still have no idea! lol

The whole thing smacks of the writers wanting to get Darla back... but not having much idea of what to do with her when they've got her.

Sorry, sounding grumpy, I'm just not a fan of this particular storyline. It makes for very dull viewing, especially 'DarkAngel'. As Angel he's fun, as Angelus he's even funner, but 'DarkAngel' is just a miserable bugger! lol!

[Kana]

Yeah W&H wanted Angel dark, distracted or in an extreme circumstance, dust (as the failsafe in Season 5 shows).

They didn't want Angelus because there is no prophecy involving him. The prophecy states that a vampire with a soul is going to play a major role. So if they bring out Angel's dark side or keep him distracted from his mission, that's fine with them.

[palabravampiress]

Yeah W&H wanted Angel dark, distracted or in an extreme circumstance, dust (as the failsafe in Season 5 shows).

They didn't want Angelus because there is no prophecy involving him. The prophecy states that a vampire with a soul is going to play a major role. So if they bring out Angel's dark side or keep him distracted from his mission, that's fine with them.

Good theory, I guess, but it still sort of seems like the writers just needed an excuse to get Darla back. Also, Jasmine probably did have a hand in it, as she did say that she sort of engineered her birth.


On a side note... I had a dream about this last night. In my dream, AtS and General Hospital combined and someone used the same magic that brought Darla back to bring back Stone. He was reunited with Robin and Sonny. And put on better AIDS meds. It was beautiful. I was sad when I woke up.

It made me think, though. If that spell brings back unsouled vamps who have been dusted as souled humans, why couldn't they have used that spell to Sanshu any vampire they chose at any time they chose -- or to bring back Cordy or Doyle or Darla or any dead pal? Also, what about the Morah demon? Couldn't they track down a Morah demon, mix blood, and the Sanshu whomever they chose?

[Keanoite]

Good theory, I guess, but it still sort of seems like the writers just needed an excuse to get Darla back. Also, Jasmine probably did have a hand in it, as she did say that she sort of engineered her birth.


On a side note... I had a dream about this last night. In my dream, AtS and General Hospital combined and someone used the same magic that brought Darla back to bring back Stone. He was reunited with Robin and Sonny. And put on better AIDS meds. It was beautiful. I was sad when I woke up.

It made me think, though. If that spell brings back unsouled vamps who have been dusted as souled humans, why couldn't they have used that spell to Sanshu any vampire they chose at any time they chose -- or to bring back Cordy or Doyle or Darla or any dead pal? Also, what about the Morah demon? Couldn't they track down a Morah demon, mix blood, and the Sanshu whomever they chose?

Shanshu is about redemption and forgiveness not being human. Angel didn't get a form of Shansu when his blood mixed with Morah's, he just got lucky. Shanshu is about his mission, his purpose. What happened with Morah and the Ring of Amarra for that matter showed Angel that he had only begun his journey and it wasn't going to be that easy. Think Frost-'I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep'.

[Joyce Summers]

And as for the 'couldnt we use it to bring back cordy or doyle or whoever' thing- well, no. Because it goes against the natural order of things which makes it very wrong. As Tara said about magics allowing them to bend things to their will but 'we don't mess with life and death'. It would be wrong and unnatural. Sort of like that monkey paw story (monkey claw...monkey hand? damn I always forget the exact name of it) where the mother wishes her son back tolife, but he isn't the same- he's isn't right. It just doesn't work- as shown primarily when Dawn tried to bring Joyce back (and brought back something that wasn't quite her), Willow bringing back Buffy (and that just went horribly wrong with the whole ripping out of heaven) and things didn't exactly work out well for Darla did they? hehe. With the craziness and the dying again and the sired again and the evil and the pregnancy and the suicide....

[Keanoite]

And as for the 'couldnt we use it to bring back cordy or doyle or whoever' thing- well, no. Because it goes against the natural order of things which makes it very wrong. As Tara said about magics allowing them to bend things to their will but 'we don't mess with life and death'. It would be wrong and unnatural. Sort of like that monkey paw story (monkey claw...monkey hand? damn I always forget the exact name of it) where the mother wishes her son back tolife, but he isn't the same- he's isn't right. It just doesn't work- as shown primarily when Dawn tried to bring Joyce back (and brought back something that wasn't quite her), Willow bringing back Buffy (and that just went horribly wrong with the whole ripping out of heaven) and things didn't exactly work out well for Darla did they? hehe. With the craziness and the dying again and the sired again and the evil and the pregnancy and the suicide....

I forgot about making this point when I was on my Angel rant! ad yes I agree bringing people back from the dead is BAAAAAAD!!!

[palabravampiress]

Oh yeah. Right and wrong. Redemption. I forgot about those.

Except, well, didn't it end up being the right thing, after all, bringing Buffy back? The growing pains were rough, but she went on to enjoy her life, to save the world again, and to activate all of the slayers in a major girl power mojofest. And didn't Darla find some measure of redemption when she was able to share Connor's soul, to love, and to selflessly sacrifice herself so that Connor could live? These so-called "bad" actions had some incredibly positive consequences... including new life.

I'm not saying everything would be all rosy. I mean, let's say my wacky dream came true and GH and Angel morphed into one show for a day. The character about whom I dreamed, Stone, died of AIDS when he was 19 years old. Before he died, he found out that he had passed the disease on to his girlfriend, Robin. If Stone was brought back from the dead, he'd still have AIDS, which would be nothing short of horrible. We'd have to watch him die all over again, which was incredibly painful the first time around and surely not something he'd want to repeat. He might even be blind, still. And a lot of people have followed him to the grave. He'd even have to mourn his doctor. But he'd have more time and better meds. He'd get to see that some of his greatest fears didn't come to pass (example: Robin's still kicking). He'd get to some amazing things. Robin became a doctor. She's on her way to motherhood. She's reunited with her parents. Heck, Stone could even be the father if he came back. Those are things he wanted for her, things he was terrified that he had robbed from her. His best friend/mentor Sonny had children - and he made it to the top of his field (as a gangster, yeah, but Stone never had any moral qualms about that). It's not all bad. There's good mixed in with the bad. And, always, there is the potential for new life.


So I think that being human again does offer the opportunity for redemption. Also, it looks to me like eventually, the good trumps the bad. I see where you're coming from. I get it. I even think you're right in the context of the show. Still, though, I can't believe they're not more tempted than they seem. If I lived in a world in which such powerful magic existed, I would find it ethically questionable to use that magic, but I think the positive consequences of doing so would justify the negative consequences.

[Keanoite]

I don't know if I agree. I still belive there is a natural order to things and resurrection isn't part of it. Your right that Darla was able to redeem herslef a little by being brought back but look at the chain of events it started. It sent Angel round the bend! he came this close to losing sight of his mission, Connor himslef caused soooo much pain, he was never supposed to happen HE was against the natural order of things!! Connor would go on to father Jasmine, who ate people and wanted to end the world. All the pain that Angel and the Gang went through, the loss of Cordy right back to Wesleys betrayal of Angel. Did any REAL good come of Darla's return? maybe but the bad far out weighs it.

And then we have Buffy, she should never have been pulled from heaven. All the pain she went through in season6 could have been avoided. She never needed to hate herslef and maybe willow would not have gone off the deep end? Tara may not have died, its impossible to say what would have happened but there is a good chance a lot of the heart ache o season 6 would not have went down, I mean it literally allowed the First to plan its attack. If she had been allowed pass there would never have been a threat to the potentials,Buffy would never had to save the world.AGAIN!! and what she did activating all slayers has yet to proven to be a good thing. We don't know what it means yet. Is every girl who had 'potential' a slayer now? when they die will that be the end of the line? or are there slayers yet to be born? if its true then is the feotus a slayer? will this have effects on pregnancies?? there is sooooo much unknown about what she did and there is NO way of saying it was good or bad.

[codyw1]

To be honest, I sometimes think the writers themselves actually had NO clue what Wolfram and Hart were actually up to, or after, or what their "end game" was. It's one of the reasons I find them such tiresome adversaries - they seem to have no defining goals, and are just sort of generic villains they could use if they couldn't think of anything better.

[GATEGOD]

Yea, plus Wolfram & Hart pre season 5 and then during season 5 seem so different. ^_^ But that's just my opinion :D They didn't seem the same, probably because we were now seeing it as the good guys. ^.^ idk

[Kemy]

Well you see thats the problem I always felt took away from the "evilness" of the Senior Partners.

Whereas you have the First Evil, a singular driven entity living out its desires personally like a person with many things it wants, the Senior Partners although on the same evolutionary level, act all "mature" and partnered up to more effectively cause evil.

Only they don't, they act like a bunch of non-corporeal lawyers, with all the tangents, distractions, delays, changing of minds, poor decision making and "great new ideas" that a bunch of corporate staff make in this reality too.

One of them comes up with an idea, the others disagree, it goes on for millenia, centuries if they don't mind the idea too much, I mean making a decision within our lifetime must be such a snap decision to an eternal creature, no wonder they come up with stuff like this.

Imagine a dozen immortal spirits "brain storming" in an ethereal office or something lol.

[white avenger]

Darla was brought back, as has been said, to mess with Angel's mind and in an attempt to release Angelus, thereby invalidating (they believed) the Shanshu prophecy. They either had no knowledge of or completely discounted the prophecy concerning two vampires having a child, just as they were unaware of or discounted the fact that there could ever be a second ensouled vampire. They screwed up royally. In bringing Darla back, they not only helped fulfill the prophesy, they damn near changed the world into a place where everyone would be too busy loving each other to perform any more evil acts, affectively putting themselves out of business in this dimension.

[Kana]

Well you see thats the problem I always felt took away from the "evilness" of the Senior Partners.

Whereas you have the First Evil, a singular driven entity living out its desires personally like a person with many things it wants, the Senior Partners although on the same evolutionary level, act all "mature" and partnered up to more effectively cause evil.

Only they don't, they act like a bunch of non-corporeal lawyers, with all the tangents, distractions, delays, changing of minds, poor decision making and "great new ideas" that a bunch of corporate staff make in this reality too.

One of them comes up with an idea, the others disagree, it goes on for millenia, centuries if they don't mind the idea too much, I mean making a decision within our lifetime must be such a snap decision to an eternal creature, no wonder they come up with stuff like this.

Imagine a dozen immortal spirits "brain storming" in an ethereal office or something lol.

To be honest that's what I liked about them. Out of all the 'evil entities' they are winning. They managed to get their enemy to work for them all the while, they've hardly been damaged.

in an attempt to release Angelus, thereby invalidating (they believed) the Shanshu prophecy. They either had no knowledge of or completely discounted the prophecy concerning two vampires having a child, just as they were unaware of or discounted the fact that there could ever be a second ensouled vampire. They screwed up royally. In bringing Darla back, they not only helped fulfill the prophesy, they damn near changed the world into a place where everyone would be too busy loving each other to perform any more evil acts, affectively putting themselves out of business in this dimension.

I'm not sure about releasing Angelus because in the scheme of things he isn't that important. If anything Angelus would be a contigency plan because let us not forget, the vampire with a soul is going to play a pivotal role for good or evil, but the soul has to be there.

I agree about not knowing about Spike but Hamilton at least thought it had played into their favour when he welcomed Spike and Angel to the team. Perhaps they did know or perhaps there will be decent in their ranks.

The SPs are players I believe but not all knowing. Darla was brought back, and it did distract Angel, yey for them, but Jasmine used it to bring herself forth. SP used Connor's nihilstic state to get Angel onside. Also The SPs are multi dimensional and essentially their lack of control was only momentary. In my opinion Angel's fight was important, but the SP's will, as Holland said, go on.