What is Xander's Problem?

[drtroy]

Okay..don't get me wrong..I love Xander..and everything..but why was he DAMN judgemental..?Just throughout the show..he has made some pretty stupid mistakes..and no one ever besides Giles has called him on it..or threw it up in his face...but for some reason he loved to point out when everyone else made a mistake.


Plus the whole Willow thing pissed me off..I think he had an idea before that she liked him..and of course he wants her only because was with Oz..and he made Oz seem like such a bad guy..

Then the whole Bangel thing..even if he had not turned evil he was looking for things wrong about him...I hated the school girl crush he had on Buffy..I mean c'mon she doesn't like you..and you don't WANT to see her happy..

I know he cared about her..but honestly it just pissed me off..and he was so insensitive about the whole Angel thing. I mean even Giles forgave her! And all Xander can say is oh..I was right..oh I knew it..it's such BS...

Sorry for the rant.

[zombie.apparatus]

well first off... i can agree with you on the fact that Xander has made mistakes and he was annoying here and there.. I do like Xander but way you have said basically states what I think also... I liked Xander way better when they all left high school.. he became a much better person

[What happened to good TV?]

'for some reason he loved to point out when everyone else made a mistake.'

He was the guy who saw things. It was his 'role'. He also pointed out when he made his own mistakes. He spoke his mind. I don't think this was a bad thing.

'of course he wants her only because was with Oz'

erm..I didn't think so. I just think it took him that long to reaise that Willow was in fact a woman. A hot woman. She'd always been just 'best friend' Willow. I also don't think he 'wanted' her. It was just them making up for the time that they'd spent not doing those things (eg footsy under the table) Xander finally woke up.

'Then the whole Bangel thing..even if he had not turned evil he was looking for things wrong about him...I hated the school girl crush he had on Buffy..I mean c'mon she doesn't like you..'

ander didnt like Angel. I thought it made his character far more interesting, like when he didnt tell buffy willows message truthfully. Plus I liked the fact he had a crush on buffy. It made the Willow/Xander relationship more sweet. When willow always used to try and flirt and xander was into buffy. He was doing what every guy in the audience was. Liking the new hot girl. (Buffy)

'and you don't WANT to see her happy..'
Huh?

[postmortem]

I don't think Xander had a problem. He was 'the eye' of the group, he was pointing out the obvious. And on his crush on Buffy being out-of-place and unnecessarily being long; he was a teenager, Buffy was hot, it was high school, everything looks normal to me here.

[Kimm]

I have to agree to a certain extent that there were times I thought Xander was out of line. He sometimes had a "holier than thou" attitude that annoyed me but I still really loved his character.

[watcher1006]

It seemed very human to me that Xander just took Willow for granted, didn't pick up on the signals Willow was sending to him, wouldn't think of her as anything but a friend until Oz got interested in her, THEN he started getting jealous (even though he was already getting involved with Cordelia at that point).

I got annoyed at him at some points in the series, but often I agreed with him when he said what I thought needed to be said to Buffy. He blasts her in "When She Was Bad". Then in the finale "Becoming Pts. I & II" he is clearly annoyed at her when a similar disaster happens to the gang. I watched part of "Dead Man's Party" on the FX Network this morning and I understand why he was saying the things he did to her about her leaving and coming back. Of course he couldn't know the whole story but you can't blame him for that.

One thing about the S3 DMP episode-I really wished we could have seen more of the Scoobies thrashing out their gripes with each other. It kind of felt like the Night of the Living Dead story was getting in the way, though I guess that's a discussion for the Season 3 section.

[hyperballadbrad]

He wasnt just the 'eye'..... he was a teenage, hormonal boy and we all know how dumb they can be!!! ANd I think a lot of his wild statements and opinionated attitude come from that.

That and he's just being really protective!

[postmortem]

He wasnt just the 'eye'..... he was a teenage, hormonal boy and we all know how dumb they can be!!! ANd I think a lot of his wild statements and opinionated attitude come from that.

That and he's just being really protective!


Protective or Procative? (or maybe both?)

[angeldarla]

i just didn't like one of xander's attitude, with spike in Forever. Spike only wanted to give flowers to buffy, no card. i think xander was really cruel. the only buffy's boyfriend that he liked was riley, cause riley wasn't a vampire like spike or angel.

[The Watcher]

I totally agree with you. He's always interfering and bad-mouthing any other male that talks to Buffy (besides Giles).

[caileybeth]

I think it is deeper than Xander just being the 'eye'.

I think he points out flaws and is judgemental of other people because, as we see in Seasons 3 & 4, he thinks he is fairly worthless. IT's like he's doing it to make himself feel better about his own insecurities.

Just like in Real Life! Man, that's why I love Buffy. :D

[Whistler]

i just watched xander in reptile boy. xander dancing as a girl = hilarity

[Randy Giles]

I've never liked Xander that much, he only seems to be good the occasional funny line and occasional uplifting speech. He acted like a little bitch, and complained far, far, far too much for my liking, and I agree with OP, he was too judgmental. Did Angel ever actually do anything to him? I think he was just jealous of Buffy and Angel's relationship and never did learn that Angel had more good qualities than bad.

He was going fairly good when he was with Anya and then he went and dumped her, which was extremely retarded. I mean, he proposed to her, was supposedly so in love, then found out his visions were fake, but he still broke up with her. I don't buy that he did it because he loved her and didn't want to hurt her down the road - if he thought there was any truth to the visions, the solution is simple, make sure you don't let yourself change in those ways. If he wanted, and if he was originally going to change like that, actively trying to be different could make a huge difference. And regardless, every single thing you do in life is a risk and with every person you have a relationship with (romantically or otherwise), someone could end up getting hurt. If he loved her he would've tried to make that work anyway.

But after "Hell's Bells" he never did seem to redeem himself and by series' end he was just lame.

[RockManic]

But after "Hell's Bells" he never did seem to redeem himself and by series' end he was just lame.

Huh? Never redeemed himself? He saved the world from being destroyed by a power mad witch. I'd say that redeems him from walking out of a marriage. ;)

Honestly, Spike and Angel kill and torture thousands of people and then we let them off because they save the world. Xander walks away from his wedding day and NOTHING is ever enough! :p

[Randy Giles]

Huh? Never redeemed himself? He saved the world from being destroyed by a power mad witch. I'd say that redeems him from walking out of a marriage. ;)

Honestly, Spike and Angel kill and torture thousands of people and then we let them off because they save the world. Xander walks away from his wedding day and NOTHING is ever enough! :p

Spike and Angelus were soulless when they did the things they did, now weren't they?

[sosa lola]

Spike and Angelus were soulless when they did the things they did, now weren't they?

Then I guess there's no problem with Xander hating them, now would it?

[palabravampiress]

Huh? Never redeemed himself? He saved the world from being destroyed by a power mad witch. I'd say that redeems him from walking out of a marriage. ;)

Honestly, Spike and Angel kill and torture thousands of people and then we let them off because they save the world. Xander walks away from his wedding day and NOTHING is ever enough! :p

So true!

I liked Xander, but, yeah. He was judgmental. That's part of my theory on why he and Angel never got along. They were very much alike in that way. But, then again, he never did get along with other guys, did he?

That Hell's Bell's stuff... it really tore me up. He was becoming such a good man. He had a job, a soon-to-be-wife, a role in the group... he was maturing by leaps and bounds! But then he just let his old insecurities sneak up and ruin all of that for him and for Anya, too. At least he was judgmental about himself, too. I mean, really, that whole wedding thing was about him judging himself harshly for all of his own flaws.

[Keanoite]

I adore Xander but I have always had issues with his issues!! The way he treated Buffy during the whole Angelus thing and when she returned was so harsh, like she planned or wanted everything that happened to happen! he never saw anything from her side, he was always so blinkered! Even whe Buffy calls him out in about him not teling her about Willow doing the spell for angel all he does is reply 'That was different'...yeah because it wasn't his demon going nuts that time!

[sosa lola]

Xander was far from perfect, and that's what I liked about him. I like a character that's not always right, and makes mistakes from time to time. Selfless was a turning point for Xander, after that episode, he became less quiet and more accepting of the gray in the world. He sees life differently than he used to and came to accept Spike more as part of them.

[Werewolf]

well, xander is just human and people make mistakes.
I think he is judgemental because he feels like he is not "speacial" in a sence..

[Bangelxx]

True enough- Xander made some pretty stupid mistakes but he got over them all! and bangel- I can't disagree more-although everyone knows im a crazed bangel fan so yah.
(psst. I like to have rants too sometimes!:))

[GATEGOD]

He let Anya go .. he must have been stupid :p

[Randy Giles]

Then I guess there's no problem with Xander hating them, now would it?

Yes, there is. Because he still hated them when they had a soul.

Xander's just a jackass.

[GATEGOD]

Yes, there is. Because he still hated them when they had a soul.

Xander's just a jackass.

lol

I don't know about that, maybe just stupid.

[sosa lola]

Yes, there is. Because he still hated them when they had a soul.

Xander's just a jackass.


With Angel, it was clear Xander was jealous. After the Angelus period, it wasn't strange for Xander to still be threatened especially since Angelus had hurt his friends, ones Xander always placed before himself. However, he came through in the end when he helped Buffy save Angel in Amends.

With Spike, Xander was still pissed over the attempted rape but then he was one of the few who started to accept Spike. There were many moments that show that Xander was fine with Spike after Him.

[Xin Rong]

i never liked the 'guy who saw things', it just seemed to be something they decided to throw in during series 7, probably just for that one line of calebs, because xander in the early series never really saw past his own desires... just my opinion.

FYI I just want6ed to say I did love xander I just think they over-exaggerated his importance too much towards the end when he hadn't done anything else...

[wiccianslayer]

can i just point out something that really annoyed the hell outta me?
xander kept bringing up the attemped rape but

HEW DID IR HIMSELF IN SEASON 1!!!!!!! episode the pack

and thew only reason he stopped was cause buffy knocked him out
spike could of jumped back on her when she kicked him off (probably what xander tried to do)
Bufy didn't

How can xander be so Hyperciracal?

[sosa lola]

First of all, the guy-who-sees-thing can be said about Mature S7 Xander. It doesn't have to be about teenage Xander. It's like saying that Spike was good since S1. Characters change and develop. Xander did. And saying that he never had an insightful moment in high school years is also not true, Prophecy Girl, When She Was Bad and The Prom all had moments where Xander was insightful, even more insightful than Willow.

Second of all, Xander didn't try to rape Buffy. He was possessed. That's the difference. He couldn't help it that he was possessed by an animal spirit. Spike was Spike. Xander was a Hyena. Now if you wanna say that Souled Spike didn't rape Buffy, then I agree.

You wanna an example about a time where Xander could've raped Buffy? BB&B, he had Buffy under a spell, willing and ready, but he turned her down. Because he's not that kind of person who would take advantage of his friend, even though he was in love with her.

[wiccianslayer]

yeah but spike was completly pushed to his edge you must have seen that look in huis eyes guilt sorrow ect i mean he went and got a soul for gods sakes

and xander?

he didn't admit it not so much as a sorry to buffy

[sosa lola]

Spike had to feel guilty. It was him who attempted to rape her.

Why should Xander feel guilty? It's not like rational-Xander was making conscious decisions. No one blames Jenny Calendar when she gets possessed - she's treated like the victim, even though she tried to kill them all. And I don't think that hyena-Xander was simply acting out Xander's baser urges - I don't think he really believes the things he said to Willow, and while he might be attracted to Buffy, he obviously respects her (for a counterpoint to this episode, look at the way he doesn't take advantage of her when she's the one under the influence in "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" ).

The only thing I think we can hold Xander accountable for is lying about remembering - and even then, it's really a matter of self-preservation and protecting their friendship from unnecessary conflict. What good would it do for Xander to confess, "Yes, I remember trying to rape you"? He'd obviously apologize, even though it wasn't really his doing, and Buffy would accept it, and then, whether they want to or not, they'd both probably feel awkward about the whole thing. This way, they can pretend it never happened, which is what they both obviously want to do. Remember - Xander asks flat out if he did anything else, giving Buffy the opportunity to speak up if she was bothered by the attack. She lets him off the hook by saying nothing happened. Really, the best thing for their friendship is to forget it and move on, which is what they do.

[palabravampiress]

Oh gosh. Have we turned this into a The Pack Xander vs. Seeing Red Xander thread? I have mixed feelings about that one, myself.

For the most part, I love Xander. He really is "one of the good ones." He's got his flaws, but I'll discuss those in another paragraph; this paragraph is for his virtues. First and foremost, Xander is brave. He takes on the nasty baddies of the world without the benefit of super powers. He's just an average guy, but he doesn't let that stop him. Xander didn't have the best family, the best childhood, the or the best potential. He wasn't one of the smart kids or one of the jocks or rich or well-connected or even talented at playing an instrument. But he still grew up to be the most financially capable and successful of the scoobies. He was a stable, decent, hardworking man. He was living the American dream all on his own and doing a good job of it, too. That's part of what attracted capitalist Anya to him. The other scoobies could have learned a thing or two about elbow grease from him. While he was doing that, he was also Mr. Fix-It to his friends. Xander didn't grow up with much love in his life, but he had the biggest heart of any of the scoobies. He loved them unconditionally. Could you imagine what their lives would have been like without Xander? Not only would the house would have fallen to pieces after a couple of fights, but the world would have ended a couple of times, too. His love and his courage saved the world at least twice -- and that's not counting the effort he put into researching and fighting during other apocalypses. Xander is like the rock or the anchor of the scooby group. He will always be there for them. He will always love them. He will always stand and fight with them. Finally, he will always be good. The darkest evil he has in him is the tendency to doubt himself so much that he wants to spare those he loves from it (Hell's Bells). He's just one of the good ones. He has principles and he stands by them -- and, coincidentally, he's also an average straight guy with a very feminist way of life, if his interactions with his female friends are any indication. He sees Buffy and Willow and Anya as individuals whom he loves and he is unthreatened by the areas in which they outstrip him (and not overly proud about the areas in which he outstrips them). He's who Riley tried and failed to be.

In addition to all of those virtues, Xander also has a laundry list of flaws. That makes his character real and readily accessible rather than some icon of perfection. First and foremost, Xander is insecure. He sees how great everyone else is and because he doesn't have any nifty powers -- because he's just an average guy -- he questions whether or not he deserves anything good. More often than not, those doubts cause him to shoot himself in the foot. He's a scared little boy who never quite grew up. He feels like any success he achieves is fleeting or illusory, and so it often ends up being that way. Really, his biggest flaw is that he doesn't know how great he is. Part of him is still stuck in that persona of the kinda dorky kid with the embarrassingly hick family. These insecurities cause all sorts of negative outgrowths. He is so afraid of being left out or of not getting what he deserves, for instance, that he can be rather selfish at times. He's so afraid of getting hurt that he can be insensitive to others. He's so afraid of hurting others that he can lie or make other bad decisions. He very strongly dislikes people whom he sees as having it "easier" than he does, (like Angel) so he has a tendency to let those negative feelings cloud his judgment. He's prone to saying "I told you so." He's hesitant to accept responsibility when he does wrong, and yet quick to heap blame onto others. For much of the series, he has a narrowly defined worldview and he displays considerable animosity toward anyone or anything that does not fit that worldview. He's led by his passions, so when he is jealous or lusty or angry or something, he has a tendency to let those emotions make him temporarily nasty. Basically, he's human. His struggles are our struggles, and they don't always bring out the rosier, more noble side of his character. Like us, he fails as often as he succeeds. The important thing, I guess, is that he keeps trying.

That's my long-winded take on Xander. I actually find him to be the most easily accessible character. The more I play him in the RPG or write for him in my Wishverse story, the more I like him. He seems very real.

[Xin Rong]

First of all, the guy-who-sees-thing can be said about Mature S7 Xander. It doesn't have to be about teenage Xander. It's like saying that Spike was good since S1. Characters change and develop. Xander did. And saying that he never had an insightful moment in high school years is also not true, Prophecy Girl, When She Was Bad and The Prom all had moments where Xander was insightful, even more insightful than Willow.

Second of all, Xander didn't try to rape Buffy. He was possessed. That's the difference. He couldn't help it that he was possessed by an animal spirit. Spike was Spike. Xander was a Hyena. Now if you wanna say that Souled Spike didn't rape Buffy, then I agree.

You wanna an example about a time where Xander could've raped Buffy? BB&B, he had Buffy under a spell, willing and ready, but he turned her down. Because he's not that kind of person who would take advantage of his friend, even though he was in love with her.

Yeah but just because he had a few insightful moments doesnt lead to him being the one who see's everything. I mean there were plenty of people who had more insightful moments, anya for one in my eyes was the one who was insightful, sometimes strangely so but she did. Even faith had her insightful moments doesnt mean shes the one who sees everything, the whole xander thing was just a cop out to please his fans in the last series

[sosa lola]

I don't think Xander seeing everything was meant to be about being insightful, it was about seeing his friends in pain and being there for them, that what Dawn meant anyway. Caleb was just repeating Dawn's words. And as I said, Xander had gained insight with maturity in S7, it doesn't have to be an ability he had in earlier seasons. And you don't really have to read too much into it, Dawn was being nice, Caleb was being sarcastic. That's how I saw it. *shrug*

[definition of insane]

Okay so here's my thing about Xander (keep in mind, I just watched Dead Man's Party and right now, not the biggest fan). Early on in the piece, great for comic relief and support...as long as that support had absolutely nothing to do with a certain relationship. Harsh to the extreme with the "I told you so" attitude he had with Angel/Angelus. Yeah I get they don't have to get along in the slightest, but when he threw Jenny's death and Buffy's abandonment in her face, it's not supportive, it's downright cruel.

I almost agree with someone (I'm sorry, I forget who) who said that the Xander/Willow thing sorta just happened because of her relationship with Oz. He took it for granted that Willow would just always have a jones for him and when he realised that it wasn't entirely the case (Willow reaching out for Oz in Becoming rather than himself) that's when the tiny seed was planted and grew and made a mess of stuff eventually. Early on, Xander kinda the "eye" but more in the "states the obvious in the bluntest form" type guy.

After high school, everyone went to college and he didn't so he became more supportive and backgroundy and rather than being blunt, states the obvious guy, he was growing up and learning to use tact guy. Also Anya had a big impact on his growth, as well as the whole "Real Me" confidence/insecurity thing. He was in the circle, but not really in the circle and at the same time that kinda makes him the glue (or the "heart" as in primeval...the one that keeps everything going).

And then he became assured guy because he had a job that he was going places in, progressing and such. He had a new slighly innocent crush person in Dawn, an adult complicated relationship with Anya, a slayer to look after and a vampire to hate (who also took the innocent crush person away so he couldn't have been too happy about that)...so in times he reverted to the "I'm going to lash out at you when I don't like what's going on" and yet still kept on to the insightful heart with tact guy.

Meanwhile, I don't hate Xander....but there are quite a few times I wished Buffy would have knocked that greater than thou attitude off the pedestal a few times. Hey....maybe that's it....he had such high expectations of what his hero was supposed to be he couldn't get past the fact that she was so incredibly flawed and couldn't control his tongue.

[white avenger]

As for Xander being "the eye" of the group, that may be a problem. Remember the old saying about pointing out the mote in someone else's eye while missing the beam in your own? That's Xander. He quite often spent more time judging others than he did in seeing his own mistakes. As for Buffy's assorted boyfriends, the only one he ever liked was a human version of Sgt. Rock, who seemed to be one of his personal heroes. Then again, maybe he just had a crush on Captain Cardboard.

[caitaintdead]

I haven't liked Xander for many years now. He's arrogant and nasty and selfish.

But he definitely had his place on the show, I guess I can see Xander as almost an anchor into the real world from the world of demons and vampires and slayers.

I often wonder why Xander couldn't have been made into a more likable character though.... When I sit down to watch Buffy with new recruits so many immediately just can't understand Xander. They don't see themselves in him (which I think was possibly the intention), but instead a popular opinion is 'Who's this <insertbodyparthere>head?"

Lastly, Xander having flaws isn't what makes him likable and accessible - it's what makes him horrible! Lots of people have insecurities, but it's no excuse for being selfish and saying hurtful comments to the people that actually do appreciate you.

(Anyone guess from my highly unintelligent ramblings that I don't like Xander???)

[sosa lola]

Actually, his flaws were the reason I liked him. :)