Part 3: Anne

[SpikedBuffy]

Disucssion start date: June 10, 2006
Discussion end date: June 17, 2006

Begin discussing season three's premiere episode: Anne

Keep up the conversations guys! Each discussion we get a little bit more going. Let's keep it up!

I, for one, have never really clicked with this episode. Maybe it's because it's not our Buffy. She's somebody entirely different.

I do like this part though!
Man: Who are you?
Buffy: I'm Buffy, the vampire slayer. And you are?

I think that's great. The moment she gets her identity back.

[Lyri]

i do like this eispode, but you're right, SpikedBuffy...she's not OUR Buffy.
i like that line too, when she recleaims her identinty and steps up to the fight.
one part, that i think pretty much sums up the whole episode, is when Xander and Cordelia are talking in the student lounge, about how they had a nice summer and can't really reconnect. that scene is noisy, full of people, full of energy and life. the scene then switches to one of Buffy, sitting alone in her room, looking extremely sad. the switch is so sudden and dramatic, going from a noisy, lively place, to a place that so quiet, desolate and empty. it shows how Buffy's life really has changed in those three months.
i think that's my fave scene of the ep.

[Black Eye Guy]

I love this episode! I thought it was really well done, I liked getting to see this other side to Buffy, It was an interesting perspective. I love that scene your talking about Lyri, it was very well done.

I also loved the opening scene where the scoobies are trying to hold down the fort, so to speak. That bit where Oz throws the stake and the music get's all 'anticipationey', it was so funny!

And That bit where she claims her identity back is so good, I also love the fight scene after it, it looks so good.

[Spirit_Of_Fred]

i didnt like this episode the first time i saw it; i still dont really. i kind of like julia lee and i like how she kept showing up. even in angel, she showed up in s2 and then the finale. i liked the scenes at sunnydale high with the scoobies. they were fun and funny and i love the group dynamic better than just one of them. i just wasnt fond of the stuff going on with buffy, maybe cause of the reason you guys said. i also wasnt fond of the demon. and i thought it was sweet when she comes back home at the end and her mom sees her at the door.

[Lyri]

one thing i REALLY don't like about this ep is the fact that Joyce tells Giles that she blames him for buffy doing a runner. i mean COME ON! she was the one who couldn't handle the 'big secret' and told Buffy that if she left the house 'don't even think about coming back'
what teenager would go back after her mother told her that?! to pass the blame onto Giles, when she still doesn't really understand the relationshiop between the Englaish man and her daughter is just wrong. i don't know, maybe this is Joyce's way of coping, because she does in fact know that she is to blame, at least partly.

[Black Eye Guy]

Yeah I think maybe Joyce should have appoligised to Giles about that she was way out of line

[SpikedBuffy]

oh, I forgot about that

I think Joyce was just not ready to accept herself that she drove Buffy away, and that's why she put the blame on Giles.

[Mulder22]

yeah Joyce blaming Giles really pissed me off. I mean I kinda understand her reasoning for it. However, Giles was the one who was getting on planes and flying all over looking for Buffy, you think Joyce would realize how much Giles loved and cared for her.

[Lyri]

EXACTLY!! this man, who she has only met a few times, is spending hundreds of dollars flying all over the country to look for her daughter! while she can 'hardly leave the house in case she calls' ok, i understand Joyce not really understanding what was going on at this point, but she had three months to learn! from Giles, Willow and Xander...Xander or Willow at the very least should have been able to explain to Joyce how important he is in Buffy's life.

[SpikedBuffy]

I just rewatched it again. I love this part:

Buffy: Hey Ken. Want to see my impression of Ghandi? (hits him with weapon)
Lily: Ghandi?
Buffy: Well, you know. He was really pissed off.


That's classic!

[SpikedBuffy]

Okay, opening this thread up again. You may continue or add any discussions about Anne.

I've never really appreaciated this episode. I really do like it. I love to see Buffy reclaim herself!

[Joyce Summers]

Okay, I feel I kinda need to defend Joyce here from all your little exclamative rants haha.

one thing i REALLY don't like about this ep is the fact that Joyce tells Giles that she blames him for buffy doing a runner. i mean COME ON! she was the one who couldn't handle the 'big secret' and told Buffy that if she left the house 'don't even think about coming back'
what teenager would go back after her mother told her that?! to pass the blame onto Giles, when she still doesn't really understand the relationshiop between the Englaish man and her daughter is just wrong.

She doesn't blame him for Buffy running away. She blames him for being the cause of Buffy running away. If he hadn't (in Joyce's view) made her be the Slayer, sent her to fight dangerous things every night, she wouldn't have fallen into all this scary stuff and so wouldn't have reached the point where she needed to run away.
Plus, when she said 'If you leave this house don't come back', that wasn't literal. It was that famed Mom-Speak. High Drama, High Point and basically means 'I'm pulling rank, now do what I say young lady'. What person hasn't had their parent do something like that? They never really mean it. It's just a heat of the moment thing. And I never thought it was why Buffy ran away. She ran away because she wanted to run from what had happened to Angel, what she had done to Angel, the hurt and pain it had caused her friends and she didn't want to face her Mom because she felt she had let her down. Buffy's running theme throughout season 3 was 'Mom, I wish I could be normal for you' until Graduation where Joyce tells her not to be so silly basically.
And true, she didn't yet know the relationship between Giles and Buffy, she just knew the basics. Which is exactly why she was able to blame him. If she had known the true depth of the two's relationship she would have realized his Fatherly role so wouldn't have been able to openly blame him, she perhaps would have been a lot more sharing in their loss, as it was essentially the same.

Yeah I think maybe Joyce should have appoligised to Giles about that she was way out of line
They do try to make nice in Dead Man's Party. The both of them do. Discussing the mask (and other forms of art if Buffy hadn't interrupted them) was the two of them trying to make up so to speak. The two aren't ones for open apologies, neither of them, and that was their way.
As for her being out of line, the very first time I saw it I did think that but now I think she's just totally in her right. Buffy is her daughter- it is considered the ultimate bond. And Giles has had this parental relationship with her behind Joyce's back for two years, neither ever telling her. He saw and understood Buffy at that time more than Joyce did. He knew what was going on in her life, she shared things with him that she never shared with Joyce unless she had to absolutely had to. (The whole Angel/Sleeping with Angel thing for example). In her overwhelming worry over her missing daughter (a situation which she views, since Giles is the one holding the Slayer handbook so to speak, he has to be a least partially responsible for) she attacks him. Her sorrow turns to anger really. She is essentially going all Mother Hen mode and really trying to overcome her own worry, loss, sorrow and guilt ('I just wish I could talk to her. The last thing we did was fight')

I just feel very strongly about her mini-speech. Makes me teary. Don't know whether it's the new Mom factor that makes me this way in an extreme defendery way, but I always felt sympathetic to Joyce in this scene and at this point in the series in general.

[InsaneMystic]

Well that's an ep my opinion towards which is complicated. I really, really hate it, because its atmosphere is just so totally depressing, and I just go "man, can't I just skip this and the next one and get on with what this show should really feel like?"; but then, I'm not stupid enough not to realize that it's meant to be totally depressive, showing the despair in the aftermath of Becoming... and I can't help but love how they press down that air of depressive despair on me, whenever I watch the ep... and of course, the moment of Buffy reasserting who she is is PRICELESS.

On the topic of Joyce... Well granted, it may just be my own mother complex (which, I admit, is about the size of Mt.Rushmore)... but I hated her and never got over it. Whenever I saw her after "Becoming II - Anne - Dead Man's Party", I found myself ever unable to see beyond "she said things no mother should EVER say, and then goes blaming anyone but herself... what a [insert nasty word]!" I never, ever warmed up to her again, even when I appreciated moments in which she was written really well. And yes, this means I found myself unable to be touched by "The Body" later on. Trust me, I fully understand if anyone wishes to flame me for this (like, um, especially someone posting right above me in this thread *cough*)... but I just went "So?" :nopity:

[Joyce Summers]

I won't flame you...I'll just glare. A LOT. Haha.

You're entitled to your opinion and you said you're opinion is influenced by your own issues and experiences. And I suppose it's the same for me but in a more positive light. Haha. Joyce is a character that is like marmite. You love her or hate her. Haha. For some reason, ever since I first watched the show way back in 97 when I was like 16 (yeesh...) I just found myself able to see things from her perspective each and every time and it was absolutely ditto for the scene with Giles in Anne. I even got a bit teary watching it recently (But admittedly, that was probably down to all sorts of pregnancy hormone craziness).

Either way, I get your opinion if I don't agree with it. ;) What I can't believe in a gob-smacked way is you not being moved by The Body!! Even with pure hate for the character that episode was just gut wrenching, heart wrenching and just all round organ wrenchage! :jawdrop: I don't know whether to applaude you for being able to not cry at that episode or to throw fruit at you. Haha

[Dyoll]

ann is a verry good episode and then the vampire girl takes buffys name middle name ann and turns up in angel small world ... its such a powerfull sceen when buffy turns with the axe thing in her hand and looks strait at you when she is the underground deamon dimention thingy