Question about a scene in "Hush"

[Chasing Cordy]

After the town loses their voices we have a scene with Xander and Spike.
They bicker without talking and then Spike puts up two fingers. Is that simply just a way of him saying There's two of us here without a voice or is that one of those BtVS metaphors that I never understand.

[Mr. Pointy]

After the town loses their voices we have a scene with Xander and Spike.
They bicker without talking and then Spike puts up two fingers. Is that simply just a way of him saying There's two of us here without a voice or is that one of those BtVS metaphors that I never understand.
I don't exactly remember the scene you mention but my best guess is that Spike gave Xander the V sign (backwards version of Churchill's V for victory gesture) which is the British equivalent of giving someone the finger...or telling them to Feck off (for the hard of understanding :))...that would be in keeping with James' apparently well-researched interpretation of Brit-punk mannerisms...and let's face it, Spike must be at least partly based on a combination of Sid Vicious (attitude) and Billy Idol (look)

[Lyri]

Spike's flipping Xander off...damn, Mr. P beat me to it.
nice one Mr. P! :D

[sizzle-sozzle]

Yea i took it as Spike swearing at Xander.That scene is funny and it's just a typical thing of Spike to do,if he can't be rude by talking he'll have to find another way of being rude and annoying.Which i think is really funny.

[VisionGuy]

I thought he did that as a way of saying he couldn't talk either. Like "Me too."

[Mr. Pointy]

See what I mean at the end of Sid's version of "My Way"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQGEBjviFQg

Also, from Wikipedia
UK and the insulting sign
The UK insulting version of the gesture (with the palm inwards) performs a similar social function to "the finger". The "two fingered salute", or "bowfinger", as it is also known, is commonly performed by flicking the V upwards from wrist or elbow. "The finger" is traceable to Roman times, but may be unrelated in origin, as the insulting V sign is largely restricted to the UK, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia, and Spain, where it is popular among taxi drivers in Madrid. The insulting V sign is not widely recognized in the United States.

Snopes has dealt at great length with a recent re-working of this myth which also related the phrase "**** you" to the same origin, which is certainly untrue. [1], referring to the idea that the raised fingers were those used for archery by English longbowmen during the Hundred Years' War, and the gesture indicated that they had not been captured and had the fingers removed by the French. A far more likely reason for the gesture is that it arose as a more comfortable way of raising the middle finger in line with the arm. This etymology has also given rise to an alternative name for the gesture, which can also be known as flicking an "Archers Salute" or just "Archers" as in "He just flicked me an Archers!"

On November 1, 1990, The Sun, a popular British tabloid, ran an article on its front page with the headline "Up Yours, Delors" next to a large hand making a V sign protruding from a Union flag cuff. The Sun urged its readers to stick two fingers up at then-President of the European Commission Jacques Delors, who had suggested that more European integration might be a good thing. The article attracted a number of complaints about its alleged racism, but the now defunct Press Council rejected the complaints after the editor of the Sun stated that the paper reserved the right to use vulgar abuse in the interests of Britain.[2][3]

For a time in the UK "a Harvey (Smith)" became a way of describing the insulting version of the V-sign, much as the word of Cambronne is used in France, or "the Trudeau salute" is used to describe the one-fingered salute in Canada. This happened because in 1971, show-jumper Harvey Smith was disqualified for making a televised V-sign to the judges after winning the British Show Jumping Derby at Hickstead (Smith's win was reinstated two days later).

Bowfinger is also the title of a Steve Martin comedy film that stars himself and Eddie Murphy. The film lampoons the people and institutions of the film industry. In this context, the title is generally interpreted as a friendly "screw you" to Hollywood and the movie industry.

In Australia, the gesture is known as "the forks", as in "he gave me the forks", being an obvious reference to the resemblance of a fork by the protruding fingers. "The forks" also alludes to the verbal insult "get forked" (the polite version of "get ****ed") which the palm-in V-sign is also taken to mean. It is also occasionally known, as in the UK, as "the two fingers" or just "the fingers". Also in the UK, but specifically in Scotland (where this gesture is known commonly as the 'Vicky'), the fingers have come to mean the highly insulting, "Go take a flying ****." The UK usage is such that "V sign" is almost uniquely reserved for the insulting gesture, "peace sign" or "victory sign" being used for its alternative meanings.

The gesture can be made more offensive by combining it with the Italian elbow gesture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_sign

[Black Eye Guy]

I am in absolute shock that not everyone knows the ruder meaning behind this symbol!! I had no idea it was a British thing.

[SpuffyisEternal]

After the town loses their voices we have a scene with Xander and Spike.
They bicker without talking and then Spike puts up two fingers. Is that simply just a way of him saying There's two of us here without a voice or is that one of those BtVS metaphors that I never understand.

Well Xander thought that Spike was the one who stole his voice and Spike showed the peace sign as if saying "whatever."...or atleast I think that's what it means...

[Buffy Summers]

Nope, with the look on Spike's face, definitely giving him the finger...

[SpikedBuffy]

I always took it as playing charades. You know...two fingers for two words.

[Lyri]

nope, it's the British way of giving the finger. :D

[Buffy Summers]

I always took it as playing charades. You know...two fingers for two words.

I don't think so. Look at the face Spike makes...

[RockManic]

I am in absolute shock that not everyone knows the ruder meaning behind this symbol!! I had no idea it was a British thing.

I'm pretty surprised too. I know it's not as commonly used in the rest of the world but it's such a normal thing here in the UK that you assume everyone else will recognise it.

Spike was definitely flicking a V at Xander. My funniest moment of the episode... if not season... hell, maybe the entire series! ;)

[hyperballadbrad]

After the town loses their voices we have a scene with Xander and Spike.
They bicker without talking and then Spike puts up two fingers. Is that simply just a way of him saying There's two of us here without a voice or is that one of those BtVS metaphors that I never understand.

Oh nooo! Thats so cute!!! Its an English thing - its basically means fook off! lol

[alexa]

Yeah I used to do it a lot when I was younger. I would get in trouble for sticking up my middle finger at someone, but if you used two it was the same thing but not as bad.

[Your Creamy Coolness]

I just love all these answers I am finding. :) Glad I am not the only who sets around and analyze's Buffy. I had no idea that was the british version of the middle finger!

[Jone]

Haha! I wondered what that meant too! And then in a video I saw with Joss in it he said he was surprised he got away with that which made me even more confused! However, someone from Britian who goes to this other forum as me told me it's the equizelence (ms) of the middle finger.

[Blondie Bear]

I think it's downright hilarious how much they manage to get away with by using British slang rather than American . . . besides Spike's flipping-off, they have also used lots of British cusswords that don't sound bad to us Americans but are HORRIBLE in Britain! :buble_eye

[Lindsey McDonald]

Wow... I really didn't know that it wasn't used in America! We see it all the time in the UK. Anyway, minor point; it isn't actually the equivilent of "the finger". We have that too. Flickng a V is generally considered quite a bit less offensive than just using one finger. It usually shows irritation rather than dislike.

[ILLYRIAN]

I agree with Five by Five, giving the 'V' is so commonplace these days.

hyperballaddrad 's post [last of page 1] nearly got it right, but the f_ _k off
was wrong, after all it wasn't OO Sunnydale it was UC Sunnydale !

[untouched]

wow!! I had no idea. I mean, I knew something was going on. And it is Spike so you have to be expecting almost anything. It's good to know! Now the scene can be even more fun! Thank you, guys!

[Lily]

i'm blown away by the fact that it's not a commonplace gesture in the US
we have it here in Australia too (like britain) i just assumed it was an internationally recognised symbol for bugger off :D

i remember when i first saw spike flipping xander off coupled with his expression of contempt i laughed so hard my sides hurt which was a nice break in the ep

[Gremalien]

i'm blown away by the fact that it's not a commonplace gesture in the US
we have it here in Australia too (like britain) i just assumed it was an internationally recognised symbol for bugger off :D

i remember when i first saw spike flipping xander off coupled with his expression of contempt i laughed so hard my sides hurt which was a nice break in the ep

Well, in the US, we've used it as a peace sign or charades. Charades is how I took it as if he was saying "two words"----F* You!!! So I took it as the Vicky or whatever anyway. But it's good to know that I shouldn't be flipping the peace sign all over the UK.

[Xin Rong]

I am in absolute shock that not everyone knows the ruder meaning behind this symbol!! I had no idea it was a British thing.

Me too. I thought it was one of those world wide symbols. I knew about its origin and stuff but didnt know it was only a this side of the pond thing. Well ya learn something new lol

[Lindsey McDonald]

Well, in the US, we've used it as a peace sign or charades. Charades is how I took it as if he was saying "two words"----F* You!!! So I took it as the Vicky or whatever anyway. But it's good to know that I shouldn't be flipping the peace sign all over the UK.

For us the peace sign is the other way around: i.e. palm outwards. We would do that for charades too. Otherwise, it's swearing.

I'm just amazed that it made it into the season 5 opening credits!

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

peace sign was palm outwards like, in the 60s. then rappers kind of made the palm inwards way the like "ghetto" peace sign.

We use the wonderful middle finger here in the good ol' U S of A lol. why, just walk through manhattan and you'll probably see it a bunch during high traffic times!

And Joss has said like as the show progressed they got away with a lot more, and using british slang and gestures was a way of doing that without being censored or insulting american viewers. i always knew of the british connotation of the gesture but so many people don't that it was fine for them to do it on the show. hasn't he done it more than once, too(spike that is)?

[Jaded Wolf]

Without the British knowledge of the backwards "V" sign, I've always interpreted it as Spike giving Xander "the birdie". I figured it was done like that to avoid the censors because Joss Whedon is clever like that. Spike was definetely telling Xander what he could go do with himself though. Spike is awesome!

[Hello Cutie]

Oh god, I didnt realise other people in the rest of the world wouldn't understand the common usage for the 'V' sign- to stick two fingers up at someone over here is to tell them to 'F*** off' or words to that effect (for Spike, it'd be 'sod off' cuz thats the sentence he tends to use the most).

But thats definitely what it is- Xander is blaming Spike, so Spike says 'oh sod off' with a hand gesture- a very Brit thing to do nowadays :) I like that they've included that then, if its not something common to all countries- it means Joss is really picking up on the smallest details on Spike and making them British!

Its so adorable that others don't know what it means!! Aww

Edit:

Oh and there's a theory that the gesture comes from the battle of Agincourt.

The French would capture British archers and chop their middle and first fingers off on their right hand, to stop them using a bow and arrow.

So, at Agincourt, the British archers all stuck up their 2fingers at the French in a 'haha look we have our fingers' sort of way.

The gesture was kept and is now used in a 'feck off' way in modern times.