Buffy and....

[William The Bloody]

What's you're favourite Buffy realtionship? Bangel? Spuffy? Briley?

[zombie.apparatus]

Spuffy hands down, then Bangel would come in second, and i dont have Briley on my list, cos i didnt like the 'ship one bit! mmmmmm Spuffy, drool!

[NIX]

spuffy - she was more alive with him

[William The Bloody]

It's true that she was more alive with him but I think that Angel and Buffy suit each other well good! The brooding, silent type and a small petite girl! LOL!

[Mango]

I am usually a Buffy and Angel fan, but her relationship with Spike in season seven was just the sweetest!!

[Wicked]

If I had to choose, Spike but I dont thinnk any of them.

In my opinion, the guys are usually more fun before they end up with Buffy. She destroys them. Riley especially.

[postmortem]

No one voted for Riley? That's shame... :D

[VisionGuy]

I voted for Riley cuz I felt bad for him, but my official vote is Spike :D

[wheelchairfight]

I'm not gonna lie Buffy and Angel are my fav, but its just because he was her first love and still is her love. He would do anything to protect her...and he did. He sacrificed alot...not that the others didn't its just he would always do it. If Riley wasn't such an idiot and he didn't leave the would have been together a little longer, but I guess they were finished anyway. I love how much love Spike and Buffy had for each other in the end, but they really aren't meant to be. Just another fish in the sea he was but not a waste of time though. It changed him and her for the better and I'm glad they got together. But if Angel and Buffy didn't live in this world of evil I really think they would be together right now married, happy. But if it weren't for the evil Angel wouldn't have become a vampire and got a soul and met Buffy and found his reason for living. Haha I could probably write more if I had more time to think of better reasons. lol

:love2:

[Ladybug]

Holycrap. How am I supposed to choose? I adore both Bangel and Spuffy... I'll vote... Angel. She loved 'em both, but Angel was her first love, and definetly a more appropriate (also in a literal sense) lover.

[Jules]

I'm always gonna vote Bangel :)

I didn't really like the Buffy/Spike relationship, only because I didn't like how Buffy treated him and throughout season 7 I was actually wishing that Buffy would fall in love with Spike because I felt so sorry for him. He was great in Season 6 and even better in Season 7. He did everything she asked for, he even got his soul for her, and she still only went to him when things were bad for her :(

[raniE]

I voted Riley, which seems to be a minority position to say the least. For me, it was just great seeing Buffy with a human, and Riley was fun and interesting (at least in season 4), bringing another way to fight demons, monsters and vamps to the Scooby Gang. Then, he unfortunately turned into an idiot in season 5, leaving all the technological ways to fight demons behind (except for that one time with a grenade and a crypt, and teaming up with Graham and the boys).

Spike become a lot less interesting in season 6 than he was in season 5 when Buffy didn't have a relationship with him, and the whole Angel/Buffy tragic love thing was getting on my nerves at the end of season 3,so I was happy that ended.

[zombie.apparatus]

argh ^ what do you mean spike became a lot less interesting in season 6? hello? its spike! okay sorry you are allowed to say that... :)

i dont get the Briley relationship.. i dont know how anyone can stand it.. it annoyed me i guess, dont know why.. probably because i dont like Riley

[raniE]

Well, I really dislike most of season 6, so that probably plays a part in it, but It's mostly that his character was sliding backwards (back into hostility with the Scoobies, back from the redemption he had at the end of s5 etc). When I check out s7 I'll see if he gets better there, what with having a soul and all.

About Riley, I'm not saying he's one of my favorite characters or anything, just that I thought he was more interesting in a relationship with Buffy than either Angel or Spike were. Also, he was human, making the relationship less angsty, allowing more focus on the other characters on the show (unlike s3 were Buffys relationship with Angel took up a whole lotta time).

[Darling Faithy]

-ahem-

BANGEL!!


sorry...felt that was nessacary. I HATE SPUFFY SHIP

[Ladybug]

I'm still not getting this whole anti-Bangel anti-Spuffy yay-Riley thing, raniE. =s Oh well...

[zombie.apparatus]

Dzhugashvili you have pretty much said whats needed to be said... I am 100% with you on this one.. and all your points are so true! Maybe this is why I love the Spuffy 'ship so much?? With what youve said it pretty much explains Buffys relationship with both Riley and Angel.. both failures.. but Buffy never gave up on Spike and vice versa.. i guess you theory of "A Princess must believe in her knight, and vice versa."

As you have said Dzhugashvili:

"It seems odd to me that the purity of the Buffy and Spike relationship would ever be considered as anything other than a veritable completion of two souls destined to be joined as one, in unison."

[Xin Rong]

Its always got o be Bangel, they where the most memorable and important couple on both shows and their relationship ultimately shaped the outcome of both shows.
Thye also has that admirable puppy love factor, although you knew it was a real and strong love, it always reminded me of m first puppy love. Also ou have to give them credit for the sheer irony and tragedy that comes hand in hand with the whole buffy and angel love. It definettly had a romeo and juliet facor inertwined with a reek tradegy feel to it.
In conclusion Bangel rules!!!

As for the others, Riley was clearly just a rebound guy, someone who was opposite to angel because buffy felt that was the way to go after how terribly her relationship with angel went. As for Spike he was initially a reaction to depression and er that he was just someone to lean on when buffy had no one else, i dont think love was even a factor, even on pikes side, i always saw his feelings as more a sign of obsession than love, yes even in series 7.

[Darling Faithy]

Ok, maybe I should explain some of my reasoning for Bangel.

Ok, it was clear to me that Buffy and Angel really did have that kind of love where each of them grew in turn. If Angel would have never loved Buffy, shown her stuff, Buffy would not have the strength to do the things she had to end up doing. Her realtionship with Angel made her grow, and the same with Angel. He seemed like the creepy lost stalker dude in the beginning, and I know some of this is character development, but he too changed and grew up, even to the point on where he couldn't hurt Buffy, and he left. He never ever forgot her or stopped loving her, but he knew he had to let her go, I assume that would be very hard, and it gets easier I'd think, when you don't see the person.

Also, Buffy, she never really stopped loving Angel, you could see that when Angel returned in season 7, and she kissed him, it was almost as if she couldn't help it. I don't think buffy EVER loved Spike, when Spike came into this whole thing, buffy was having tough times, he was the only one that showed her attention, even if it wasn't the kind Buffy wanted. I believe Spike may have fallen for Buffy, but Buffy just wanted to forget about her own pain, if she loved him, the entire seasn 6 and 7 would have been different. buffy used Spike sorta as a pawn, or a escape goat more than a lover. Even her cookie dough speech wasn't all that convincing. I think at that point Buffy was so pressured and everything, that why would she waste time on trying to fix a realtionship that couldn't be there. Instead she went with the one she counted on, the one she knew was always there because Spike would make sure it was. No doubt Spike loved Buffy, but the thing that bothers me, is that Buffy never truly loved spike..I dont think she ever even LIKED him that much. I know, some would say her resisting was just her lying to herself, ya, that's one interuptation, but for me, im just not seeing it, to me, Bangel was love, Spuffy was a safety net.

[Angel's vision]

I'm not gonna lie Buffy and Angel are my fav, but its just because he was her first love and still is her love. He would do anything to protect her...and he did. He sacrificed alot...not that the others didn't its just he would always do it. If Riley wasn't such an idiot and he didn't leave the would have been together a little longer, but I guess they were finished anyway. I love how much love Spike and Buffy had for each other in the end, but they really aren't meant to be. Just another fish in the sea he was but not a waste of time though. It changed him and her for the better and I'm glad they got together. But if Angel and Buffy didn't live in this world of evil I really think they would be together right now married, happy. But if it weren't for the evil Angel wouldn't have become a vampire and got a soul and met Buffy and found his reason for living. Haha I could probably write more if I had more time to think of better reasons. lol

:love2:


even though i'm not a Bangel fan i do see that they would of married if it hadn't of been for his vampirism and the pesky curse like you said.

I don't think Riley OR Spike were really suitable for her either, Riley was a rebound relationship, Spike was for Buffy to bury herself in to feel something basically she used him to dump her negative emotions onto, their relationship reflected what she felt about herself.

[Darling Faithy]

I never said I wasnt a hipocrite, but the fact that you downed every single one of my thoughts, and some of the others, how close minded can you get, and I have solid belief, in my mind why spuffy would never work, but I didnt need to resort to downing all your thoughts just to make my point.

[raniE]

I'm still not getting this whole anti-Bangel anti-Spuffy yay-Riley thing, raniE. =s Oh well...

Well, it's not so much a pro-Riley/Buffy thing as it is an anti both Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike thing, although to be fair, my antipathy for the Angel/Buffy relationship is mostly based on how it was in s3.

...

It saddens me that there is a need for a topic like this, that only a select few of us see the truth.

Every princess needs her knight, the other half of the symbiotic circle to complete her.

Um... No. Nobody needs another person to "complete them". Since the rest of your argument is based on this cornerstone I won't bother refuting the rest of it. Also, representing Buffy as a princess in need of a Knight seems very very contrary to one of the main themes of the show (female power and empowerment).

[Angel's vision]

Dzhugasvilli, while i Do understand where you are comming from that both Spike and Buffy's feelings did grow in time after she used him, i Don't get why you said: As for Buffy, Angel left Buffy a wreck. He gutted her, so deficient was he in understanding a human being, he offered love, Buffy felt pain.
Angel saw no other way IF they'd stayed together he woulda turned evil with feeling a moment of happiness, that's how strong their feelings were, he did understand her feelings.He has said they were two sides of the same coin, that's why. and IF you remember when he broke up with her in the sewer his plan was to do it gently but they both ended up in tears anyway. Even Buffy herself understood his reasons why, she says so to Willow.

I do agree with what you said: The only growth Angel ever made was with the influence of Cordelia. Of all the major characters, Angel changed the least, he wasn't that much different from when he met Buffy until he took on the Senior partners. But he had changed, that was mostly due to Cordelia.
Thats was because she understood him better than Buffy ever could.
one last thing Buffy was sixteen when she met Angel, i'm sure of it, well you can correct that if you want if it isn't true lol.

[Jules]

I wasn't going to bite, but I can't seem to help myself.....So Dzhugashvili, I'm expecting your best come backs :silly:

Yes, for a period, Buffy used Spike. Let me use my experience to briefly shine a light into the inner confines of your ‘mind‘. Maybe, if only for a moment, I can enlighten your knowledge of Buffy using Spike, and the implications of that. When you use a person, as Buffy did do with Spike, in such an intimate setting, feelings grow. It is not your intent, it is not your desire, but it happens. You can fight against it, as Buffy did, but it is there. She began to care for Spike, and that flung her. She couldn’t begin to understand why she would care for something that she is supposed to detest. Even in her mind she began to wonder if it was love.

I personally doubt your own experiences have resulted in any type of feelings for anyone. I think your devoid of that gene...but that's irrelevant. I do think Buffy cared for Spike, but I don't think she was in love with him.

Chosen:
BUFFY: You're not getting the brush off. Are you just gonna come here and go all Dawson on me every time I have a boyfriend?
ANGEL: Aha! Boyfriend!
BUFFY: He's not. But...he is in my heart.

BUFFY: I love you.
SPIKE: No, you don't. But thanks for saying it.

On reflection I can only come to the conclusion that you have the intellect of an insect. I am shocked that I even bothered replying to your comments at all. If there is anything else about the Buffy tv show that you don’t understand, please pm me. My response will be short, concise, succinct, exact, I will leave no room for interpretation.

And based on your own completely biased view of the show :p


Willow: (about Riley)He's not making you miserable?
That Angel made Buffy miserable is cleary a sign of their "true love"...

Dawn: She sure cries a lot less with you than she did with Angel.
Riley: (surprised) Angel ... made her cry a lot, huh?

Wow, what love.

Welcome to the world of adult relationships. Not everything is hearts and flowers, nothing ends the way you plan, people hurt each other. But that's relationships. You can't have intense love and not expect equally devastating pain. The Bangel relationship was passionate.

Riley and Buffy's relationship was safe. Xander explains that to Buffy at the beginning of season 5. She built a wall around her heart and she didn't let Riley in. The reason she didn't get all upset over Riley was because she didn't love him as much.

I'm not expecting you to understand that comment and I'm really looking forward to your attempt at a sarcastic remark...I need a laugh and you amuse me.

[Wicked]

I came in at the end here, but who's suggesting Buffy wasnt devastated about Riley? Thats bull.

[Black Eye Guy]

Crap I'm a little late to this discussion, but I wanna play :)

Every princess needs her knight, the other half of the symbiotic circle to complete her.

Um... No. Nobody needs another person to "complete them".

I agree with Dzh, People are designed to be together.

A Princess must believe in her knight, and vice versa.
When Angel ran out on Buffy
True. But angel did not run out on Buffy. He saw that he couldn't give her the half of the symbiotic relationship he was supposed to. She couldn't have a normal life, with Kids and family picnics. He left her so she could have that life. Spike doesn't seem to consider this at all.

Buffy also trusted Angel to have a second wave ready if their attack on the first failed. - I think this was kinda lost in the finale, but there was a high chance they could have lost the battle with the first, they needed a back up plan and she trusted Angel to be that, without having to tell him what to do she just knew he could do it.
I do also realise that she trusted Spike to handle the amulet.

That growth of each half of that symbiotic circle, means growth of the whole.

From the time Angel began dating Buffy, to the time he left her and fled to LA had he changed much? We know he rejects humanity before he meets Buffy, he distances himself from people. Yet he has not changed all the way through the relationship and even after. Doyle explains it to him "But he’s cut off. From every thing. From the people he’s trying to help."
Angel: "I still save ‘em. Who cares if I don’t stop to chat."

Angel when we first saw him, was completely different from the Angel we saw after he dated Buffy. In season 1 and season 2, Angel had no problem being in the background and not taking part. He even says in Welcome to the Hellmouth the reason he doesn't fight the master is cuz 'He's not strong enough'. He clearly doesn't have this opinion after he dates Buffy, He is stronger and more confident. He does grow.

Not much growth there. Buffy grew..more closed. Not allowing anyone in. Seems like Angel threw her backwards, and he stood still.
This is a common reaction to the break-up of a serious relationship. It wasn't just because it was Angel. Also Buffy had to close herself off, the next person she had to date would most likely have been a normal person, she had to protect her identity a little, she couldn't just go into the relationship and announce who she really was.

When Buffy has difficulty sharing her power with Faith when she is dating Angel, but learns to share it when she is with Spike, do we just assume there is not a connection there? That surely Spike helped her grow, gave her the strength,"Because of the strength that you gave me last night." that she needed for growth.
I really don't agree with this, At the time Buffy had problem sharing her power, she was also a 18 year old High Schooler. She wasn't just dating Angel. By the time she has learned to share her power she was older and had responsibilities not just to herself but to the lives of others.
Also it wasn't just Spike's doing that allowed her to realise she had to share her power, Her friends telling her she was acting wrong and kicking her out of her home, would also been a big wake up call.
But I do agree Spike played a part in her getting to that point, but it was not him alone that allowed her to reach there.

That when a knight stumbles his princess will set him steady, and when a princess falters her knight will set her true.
You offered up an Example for Spike and Buffy but again it's not the only example, There were ones with Angel and Buffy.
The very moment Angel say Buffy - he was set steady, without even talking to her he saw the good and he wanted to be a better "perpire".
Buffy goes insane from hearing other peoples thoughts in season 3, and it's Angel that helps her through. She need to have as much of a normal life as she can - He try’s to let her have that.

That any form of sacrifice for one half of that circle means full acceptance that they are a symbiotic circle.

Again you only offer up a Spuffy example. Angel sacrifices up the love of his life, so she can have a normal life (The fact that he lost his soul is absolute proof that it was love)
Buffy sacrifices her own Blood to revive him (Grad. Day) even after he told her he was leaving.
Angel gave up his chance to Be Human, So Buffy wouldn't be alone in the fight against Evil.


And Spike, when he sacrifices his freedom for a soul.
Spike didn't really sacrifice anything, He was already unable to Kill humans. He didn't have freedom. His soul caused him 4 months of feeling bad - Angel felt that for year.
And I know That just means Spike was able to separate the two people, but I don't think he should have been able to do it so easily. Clearly the Vampire still has some of the characteristics of the person, the original person is part of them, just soulless.

"It seems odd to me that the purity of the Buffy and Spike relationship would ever be considered as anything other than a veritable completion of two souls destined to be joined as one, in unison."
Two souls that couldn't go very far, there's only a certain amount they could have developed together, Buffy's biological clock would start ticking, and Spike couldn't give her that. He couldn't give her the normal life she deserved, No daytime wedding, no attending parent teacher meetings. She would have had to live her life in the Dark - Angel was able to see this, and was able to try and give Buffy that life. Spike Couldn't, he wanted Buffy to love him, and he didn't think about the bigger picture, He didn't care.

Again we are agreed. After how terribly her relationship with Angel went.
BUFFY: What was the highlight of our relationship— when you broke up with me or when I killed you?
That she highlights these points to Angel is not lost on Buffy or Angel. Their relationship was all about pain, and the highlight was these two incidents. They couldn't deal with their problems, which got to a point where their problems was bigger than the sum of their relationship, and it broke them up.
The fact that this is all brought up, and, at the end of the discussion they are still discussing, that they think of a future together, I think says something.

As for Buffy, Angel left Buffy a wreck. He gutted her, so deficient was he in understanding a human being, he offered love, Buffy felt pain.
Angel wasn't deficient at understanding a human being, If anything he understood it more then she did, as I said already, He knew what she was going to eventually want, and knew he couldn't give them to her.

Willow: (about Riley)He's not making you miserable?
That Angel made Buffy miserable is clearly a sign of their "true love"...

Dawn: She sure cries a lot less with you than she did with Angel.
Riley: (surprised) Angel ... made her cry a lot, huh?

Wow, what love.

Yep. The Bigger they are the harder they fall, same thing applies to love, the more of it you have the more it hurts. It's a balance and you can't have one without the other, perpetual happiness doesn't exist!

Then the old classics:

Angel shows up and Buffy is kissing him.
She tells Spike she loves him, and he says "No you don't"

Then there’s what Spike said in Lovers Walk about Buffy and Angel:

You're *not* friends. You'll never be friends.
You'll be in love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag,
and you'll hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be
friends. (points at his temple) Love isn't brains, children, it's
blood... (clasps his chest) blood screaming inside you to work its will.
Buffy and Angel love each other (Again the loss of Angels Should proves this) And their love is not something they can control, It's a part of them.
When Buffy dies, Angel goes into serious morning, And When he find out she's alive, the two drop everything and go to each other.
Buffy's mom dies, and Angel comes to Sunnydale asap, just to be there for her.
And he shows up in season 7 and she is kissing him, and thinking that she does sometimes think of a future with him.

And then in Season 5 of Angel, Spike comes back to life and he doesn't even let Buffy know. Because he can't top the 'exit in a blaze of fire, saving the word' - what does that say about him? That it's more important to him that she thinks of him as a hero, then alive!

[Frenchy Faith]

Wow wow... I know he can stand up for himself, but I still have to say cause I find this shocking, faithlehane... saying that Dzhugashvili has a tiny brain and is close minded is, in my opinion a weak argument of someone who doesn't know what to say and doesn't want to admit their defeat... now, I'm not saying I always agree with him, I used to disagree with him more than agree... but he IS clever so if he has a tiny brain then yours must be inexistant, and he's nowhere near close minded either... he has just his own opinions and will fight for them until someone can prove with a good argumentation that he is wrong... this is a board where you're supposed to discuss your opinion and stand up for them... you do it for your opinions, he does it for his... now I don't think you can reproach him that... and if you have strong beliefs then good for you, but that means you should even less reproach his point of view on the topic...

And on that one, I voted Bangel cause I find Bangel love cuter, like the impossible cute thing, I do think there's more to their relation than what Dzhu said... but I agree on what was said about Spike and Buffy and it's true that they did a lot for each other and wouldn't have grown without each other, for each other... and to some extent, it was more constructive.. mhm

[Jules]

You blow your father with that mouth?

Yeah, and my brother :whatever:

What? Is there some point you're making?

1 - Spike is insecure. It is a constant with his character. It's the reason he hides behind that whole bad boy leather coat persona. What would you have needed, for Spike to reply "I love you too"? What Cheeseball relationship did you think you were watching? It would have been rather embarrassing if season seven ended like a rehash of season 2.

I'm sorry, I must have over estimated your intelligence by thinking you might be able to understand me just stating the quotes.

Buffy doesn't dispute Spike's point. Irrelevant of Spike's insecurities Buffy doesn't say he's wrong....and seriously, saying 'Your wrong' would not have delayed her escape by all of a second. She just doesn't love him.

The fun has left our sadomasochistic relationship, you'll have to go back to asking your 'boyfriend' to beat on you.

If you want to see real Bias, just read BEG'S post.

I shouldn't even reply to you, mate.

Aww, hunnie, its as if you don't have a decent reply to my comments...I'm suprised after all the insulting ways you usually address my opinions.....

Buffy was the slayer, prior to Chosen she had no chance at a normal life. Slayers generally had a very low life expectancy. Early twenties at best. It is a genuine miracle that Buffy is alive when her thing with Spike started up. Had it not been for Willow resurrecting Buffy, then Angel’s “sacrifice” would have been for nought. He left her to die alone. That’s the reality of it. It doesn’t matter that his intentions were noble, the decision was not insightful. Angel looked into the future under the delusion that Buffy was a normal girl.

Angel left Buffy to die alone??? Why, were Xander, Willow and Giles planning on leaving Sunnydale? Did Joyce move out? Gosh, I must have missed that. Angel left Buffy because he thought it was the right thing to do. Angel was trapping her in a relationship that had no where else to go. She needed to grow into an adult. Angel left Buffy with her friends, in an environment she was used to. She had slayed in Sunnydale for 3 years.

[Wilkins]

I'm just surprised! Angel has more votes than Spike.

[Jules]

You're lucky I replied to your comments at all.

Yes, I consider myself blessed that you took the time to write that....even if it didn't actually address any comment.

Yeah, because that scenario is so plausible... Would have made great tv too....

Buffy: Spike, oh spike, you're wrong, I do love you
Spike: (sings) Don't believe you
Buffy: Dude, seriously, I do
Spike covers his ears.
Scene!

And we can tell from that that you wouldn't make it as a script writter.

How about:
BUFFY: I love you.
SPIKE: No, you don't. But thanks for saying it.
BUFFY: Your wrong (They gaze at each other, Spike smiles slightly, then Buffy lets go of his hand)
SPIKE: Now go! (Buffy runs up the stairs) I wanna see how it ends.


I'm not explaining it to you, that you didn't understand is not my problem. The implication of my comment is obvious. (http://www.buffy-vs-angel.com/angel_tran_45.shtml)

Right, but isn't that the point you keep trying to make to people. When someone doesn't agree with you, you pull their opinions to pieces rather rudely. Your loosing your touch.

I know the episode, but I'm still missing your point. Are you saying that Angel let Buffy die on her own because after her death he found out he could live without her and didn't choose to die with her? What did you think you were watching....Romeo & Juliette?

There's Angel's growth of character (that you like to point out he didn't have). The first 3 years on Buffy he existed for Buffy. He was practically nothing without her. He moves to LA and grows and develops as a person. he can continue with only her memory and can still fight the good fight.

If that's not what you mean then your going to have to explain your comment...unless you can't.

[zombie.apparatus]

cheers for Spuffy! *sorry* how the heck is Angel winning.. "His hair goes straight up, and he's bloody stupid"

Spike and Buffy in the tree... K - I - S - S - I - N - G... :silly:

[Hel]

I like her couple with Spike a lot.

[mogwaid]

I voted for Bangel...mainly because Angel was cute in season 1, and Spike's love seem to come out of obsession. And Riley, my god, dont get me started on him.

[white avenger]

As for the Angel/Spike debate (let's just forget that Riley ever was on the show!), I will conceed to the argument that Angel was Buffy's first serious love, and as such, aside from the whole "trying to destroy the world so she had to shove a sword in his chest and send him to hell" thing, he was probably the perfect introduction into the world of romance. With his curse and all, and her "my sacred duty is to slay your kind, but I just can't do it because you're so tall and dark and mysterious and broody" thing, they even become the classic starcrossed lovers, fated to forever reach out to each other, but cursed to never really touch. It could've been written by Shakespere. Angel was as much Buffy's teacher and mentor as Giles ever was.

Angel was Buffy's first love, and always will be. Unfortunately, we very seldom get to spend our lives with our first loves. A thing called growing up and seeing the world without our rose colored glasses takes place.

In Spike, Buffy found a mortal enemy who eventualy became her champion and a partner with the soul of a poet, the heart of a warrior, and the ferocity of a pit bulldog with hemorroids. Granted, there was that whole rape thing that everyone loves to bring up, but he never slaughtered Giles' girlfriend and tried to end the world either. Also, he never left Buffy, either for her own good or his own after he fell in love with her, except to go and get that soul, and that was over the summer haitus anyway, so it really doesn't count. Spike remained faithful to Buffy even when her best friends deserted her. In the final and greatest fight of her life, he stood beside her to the bitter end and beyond, while Angel just "stopped by for a quicky" (he accepted that "second front" line without a whole lot of argument, even though the amulet had to be worn by someone "more than human, but with a soul." As far as he knew, he was the only one who fit that description, and he just strolled back to LA without very much of an argument. Imagine Spike being that easy to keep out of a real fight.)

Now, I said all that to say this: in case you haven't figured out just where all this is going, my choise for Buffy's one true love is, was, and always will be, Spike. (Oh, and for all you folks out there who are still hung up on that "first love" thing, consider this: William was infatuated with Cecily and obsessed with Drusilla. His first real love was Buffy.)

[Spirit_Of_Fred]

Granted, there was that whole rape thing that everyone loves to bring up, but he never slaughtered Giles' girlfriend and tried to end the world either. Also, he never left Buffy, either for her own good or his own after he fell in love with her, except to go and get that soul, and that was over the summer haitus anyway, so it really doesn't count.

when angel slaughtered jenny and attempted world destruction, he was soulless. true, so was spike, but spike had already proven that even without a soul he could do good things because of his love for buffy. for instance, when glory had him captive, he couldve told her dawn was the key and he mightve gotten away, but he didnt sell her out, because he knew how bad that would be. when buffy died, he took care of dawn for her, etc. he had capabilities and willingness to do good things and make good judgements, and he still raped buffy. and saying when he was gone was a hiatus for us does not really count. buffy was still around, likely wondering where he'd gone off to, at least in the beginning. just cause we didnt see it, doesnt mean it "doesnt count" as a time when he left her. if clem hadnt been there when she went to leave dawn with spike, buffy wouldnt have had anyone to leave her with.

i personally like angel with buffy, and im not sure if that's what this argument is geared to. it seems it is, but really it is just my comments on what was said :).

EDIT: let me rephrase that last part. for angel, i think buffy should be with him. with buffy, im still a bit torn and undecided. however, my argument still does seem more rooting for angel.

[white avenger]

The argument could go on forever about whether Buffy sholud end up with Angel or Spike (or Riley or the Immortal, for that matter, and let's not forget Methos and Duncan Macleod...). The wonderful thing about a fictional character is that we can imagine them with any or all of their potential matches, and it's all the same: just a heck of a lot of fun and good practice honing our writing skills (I'm rather proud of that "pit bulldog with hemmoroids" image, even if no one else mentions it, and I just may use it in a story someday).

The important thing is that we all love Buffy and want her to be happy with SOMEBODY, because, fictional character or not, we love her and want good things for her. I seriously doubt that any of us could disagree with that.

[Monty]

Riley blah, Spike ok, but Angel... they will never stop loving each other, never stop longing for each other... and I guess they will never really have each other. Buffy's life sometimes really, really sucks.

[Randy Giles]

I vote for Spike. I despise Riley, and as far as Angel goes...well I think he would go better with Cordelia. Or even Faith.

[Nuriko]

I don't want to argue with anyone so I'll just say: Bangel because I'm awesomely cheesy :D.

[alexa]

I'm just surprised! Angel has more votes than Spike.

Same.

I liked Buffy with Riley, Angel and Spike at one point or another. I didn't like Buffy with Riley when it first aired though. Spike and Buffy after the whole depressed rough sex thing turned me off, even if it was hot, but I liked them again in season seven. I love the moments between them in Intervention.. Touched... End of Days.. and Chosen.
I cried a lot more with Buffy/Angel, and went 'awww' plus I had the hots for David since I was 17 (When season one started). :p

[zombie.apparatus]

Spuffy :) i already said which one.. but i can post again.. SPUFFY..
but i do love the Bangel ship also. Briley *growl* ... not so much

[Randy Giles]

Spuffy :) i already said which one.. but i can post again.. SPUFFY..
but i do love the Bangel ship also. Briley *growl* ... not so much

I voted for Spuffy, but I have mixed feelings about Buffy's relationships.

I don't DISLIKE Buffy/Angel, in fact I think it worked quite well, yet after seeing how much the characters developed by the end of their respective series, I just don't think they were right for each other in the long term, even though they still had chemistry.

As for Spike, I do think by the end of Buffy, she and Spike were better suited for one another. Her relations with Spike began as just a sexual thing but I think they did grow from that and could have had a more meaningful relationship, and I think they sort of needed each other as well.

But I'm totally not opposed to Buffy getting an entirely new boyfriend altogether. :) As long as he's nothing like Riley. And preferrably not a vampire, since she'd be eighty while her love would be young still. Ew.

[Saint Edward]

I gotta go with the Buffy-Angel relationship

[River]

i like spuffy snd bangel its kinda hard to choose but i think i will go with bangel:cheering:

[SH3RRI3]

Spike hands down. I loved that ship. they were great for eachother epecially in season 7.

[Bangelxx]

Bangel...duh! Briley isnt on my list AT ALL!

[The Chosen]

Where's the Faith option? ;)

But I'm a Bangel man. GO BANGEL!

[Keanoite]

Bangel hands down end of story...all else pales in comparison!

[Rebecca]

This is hard actually! Before I came on this forum I was a firm spuffy supporter but after reading several peoples points about Bangel and rewatching Seasons 1-3 I'm actually.. maybe.. changing my mind.

Still Spike though! I'll need a bit more convincing just yet to be brought over to the dark side!

[spuffy]

Er.... my name gave me away, right? Anyway SPUFFY!

[Allycat]

I'm not some crazy Bangel-fan, but out of these three choices, Angel is the best pick for Buffy. I'm still hoping for Bander to happen in Season 8 though.

[Wiccaness]

I liked buffy with spike towards the end of the season and still do. So i guess that makes me a spuffy shipper :biggrin:

[white avenger]

There was a time when i would have said (I did earlier in this thread, in fact, and quite a few other places, to the distress of some people who just plain got sick of the whole debate) that the only possible partner for Buffy is Spike, and I would have defended that opinion until my typing finger (both of them) shriveled up and dropped off. I've changed my mind on the whole issue since then, however.

Let Angel have Buffy. They deserve each other. He can sit in one corner of the bedroom, in the shade, of course, brooding about how he and Buffy can never be together if he wants to retain his soul, while she sits in the opposite corner crying about how if they ever are together, she's gonna have to shove a stake up his...heart, then sweep the dust up out of the new carpet. They deserve each other.

Spike deserves someone who can be loyal, supporting, and love him for exactly what he is: a nice guy with a bad past who has suffered a whole lot to become the Champion that he is. Buffy doesn't deserve someone as good as him.

[Starlet]

I voted for Spuffy:):) I think Spike loved Buffy way more than Angel did.

[Amber Benson]

I'm not going to get too into it... But I voted for Angel by process of elimination...

I didn't vote for Spike because he tried to rape her... and after that, I couldn't see him loving her, no matter how much he tried... regardless of him having a soul or not.

I also wouldn't vote for Riley 'cause I just thought he was a whiney baby... and couldn't handle that his girlfriend was stronger than he was and that he played second fiddle to her saving the world.

Angel never did anything that I didn't like... He turned evil because he loved Buffy... and when he turned back he was smart and left for the good of everybody...

[TabulaRasa]

I am a Buffina shipper. Buffy and the short version of my name Tina. yup, works for me.

Otherwise Bangel.

[SMGfan17]

I loved Buffy & Angel. I like Buffy and Spike more. I hated Riley.

[Ysma]

I love both Bangel & Spuffy. but I vote Angel.

[palabravampiress]

Why is there no "other" option? Grrr.

I kinda think the Buffster and Xander are endgame. I kinda fell in love with the idea in season 7 when they were working together as a pair so well and when he was helping with Dawn and whatnot. Xander wouldn't have Riley's issue; we know he isn't intimidated or emasculated because Buffy is the slayer. He wouldn't have Angel's curse problem, he wouldn't have the started-under-icky-circumstances problem that everyone seems to hate when it comes to Spike. Xander has his own issues, sure, but... ultimately, I think they work well together as a team, have a secure and loving friendship, and already feel like family. Plus, he's the one guy who has stood by Buffy all this time without leaving -- even when she told him to leave with Dawn. All of that sounds like a recipe for a great romance to me. I think Xander and Buffy have what it takes to actually make a relationship last.

Barring that, I'll go with my usual answer of an Angel/Buffy/Spike threesome, as I think it's more convenient all around. Buffy doesn't have to choose. Angel's never too happy. Spike gets the girl. And -- here's the important part -- I get to see Angel and Spike bicker and be hilarious for, like, ever. Hehehe.

[LorneyTunes]

spuffy xxxxx i love it xxxxx

[SC7 Fan]

Why is there no "other" option? Grrr.

I kinda think the Buffster and Xander are endgame. I kinda fell in love with the idea in season 7 when they were working together as a pair so well and when he was helping with Dawn and whatnot. Xander wouldn't have Riley's issue; we know he isn't intimidated or emasculated because Buffy is the slayer. He wouldn't have Angel's curse problem, he wouldn't have the started-under-icky-circumstances problem that everyone seems to hate when it comes to Spike. Xander has his own issues, sure, but... ultimately, I think they work well together as a team, have a secure and loving friendship, and already feel like family. Plus, he's the one guy who has stood by Buffy all this time without leaving -- even when she told him to leave with Dawn. All of that sounds like a recipe for a great romance to me. I think Xander and Buffy have what it takes to actually make a relationship last.

Barring that, I'll go with my usual answer of an Angel/Buffy/Spike threesome, as I think it's more convenient all around. Buffy doesn't have to choose. Angel's never too happy. Spike gets the girl. And -- here's the important part -- I get to see Angel and Spike bicker and be hilarious for, like, ever. Hehehe.


i was on wikipedia the other day and on this one page it had a quote from sarah michelle gellar and she said that she thinks joss' original intention was to put buffy and xander together.