Luke and Darla (The Harvest)

[Kryptonite]

ok, knowing what we know now about Darla, how does it add up that she would be so timid toward Luke? she could "control" Angelus and he was said to be the worst vampire ever. i know Joss hadnt worked on their history so much by this point, but according to the story, how could you explain that away?

does that make any sense?

[Shimmer]

She could control Angelus because of their connection, she was his sire as well as the fact that she is older than he is. Luke however was the Masters right hand vampire and hence her superior in the order of Aurelius (I can only assume this was as a result of her choosing Angelus over the Master in 1760). This would explain her subserviance to him. Plus we don't really know how old Luke is other than being at least 153 in the Harvest and chances are he is much older than that. So he could have been older than Darla and hence stronger.

[The Watcher]

What Shimmer said basicly summed it up. She feels superior to Angel because she was his sire and that there is nothing to be scared of.

[white avenger]

Darla wasn't intimidated by A ngelus simply because she was sire and mentor. Angelus as he was portrayed never struck me as a particularly bright vampire. Ruthless and dangerous, certainly, but he was still always dependant on Darla to handle the day to day (or maybe night to night) details of their existance while he persued violence and mayhem. Throughout all of their time together, she sort of allowed him to think that he had some degree of authority, but it was only in the small things.

Luke, however, was a giant, probably much more dangerous than the average vampire, and completely devoted to the Master. He might've even been a sort of "favored son" in the Master's eyes, and as such higher in rank than Darla. He probably wasn't the sharpest vamp around, but that only made him a much more dependand on and devoted to the Master. As such, he was far more dangerous than anything Darla cared to confront, especialy without her own muscle man, Angelus.

[The Master]

You've pretty much summed it up. It's just a shame that we didn't see more of Luke in the flashbacks on Angel. Would have liked to see how he reacted to Angelus' lack of respect for The Master.

[Seven Of Nine]

I thought Joss had also said that at that point in time he had not yet decided to make Darla such an important character to Angel's history.

[ILLYRIAN]

Another point to consider is, what is the role of women in the vampiric community.

[ILLYRIAN]

It sucked ! now there's a statement by itself, something to really get your teeth into, huh.

[white avenger]

Unfortunately, it occurred to me after posting it that I had stolen the line from "Moonlight," "Yeah, being a vampire sorta sucks." My apologies to the readers here and to the writers of that show fir stealing their material.

Seriously, though, for the most part, from the few examples we were shown, a vampire's status had little to do with gender. Darla was a dominant character, and so was Dru, though most of the time they allowed their children to handle the more mundane details of their existence. Of course, both grew up in a predominately male run society, and since the personality of the host seems to remain after turning, they would be more likely to defer to the males of their species. Harmony, however, had her own group of minions, though she wound up turning that into a total disaster, and the Vampire woman from the first of Season 4 was definitely dominant in her group. I think that it mainly simply comes down to a combination of strength of personality and physical prowess possessed by the individual vampire more than whether they are male or female.

[ILLYRIAN]

The only time I've heard of Moonlighting is on this site. If it comes out on DVD I may get to see it, but the TV stations here are run by thicko's these days.
Buffy re-runs were at 12:30 to 2:30 in the early hours and Torchwood started at 12:30 in the morning. Bet the ratings were low.

[Bored of the Dead]

The only time I've heard of Moonlighting is on this site. If it comes out on DVD I may get to see it, but the TV stations here are run by thicko's these days.
Buffy re-runs were at 12:30 to 2:30 in the early hours and Torchwood started at 12:30 in the morning. Bet the ratings were low.

Do you mean Moonlight about the Vampires or Moonlighting with Bruce Willis and Cybil Sheppard - though she did play an occasional 'vamp' when she was undercover

[Jules]

There's also Darla's respect/fear of the Master that might have something to do with her attitude to Luke. If Darla causes trouble with Luke, instead of Luke dealing with it himself all he needs to do is take it to the Master and Darla is in some serious trouble. Not that Luke comes across as the tell tale kind of vamp, but its an option :)

[palabravampiress]

I think Luke must have been older and closer to the Master, too. That's the only explanation for it.

I didn't see too much sexism in vampire society. I don't think Darla deferred to Luke only because he was male. I think it had more to do with age and status in the group. For the most part, although they sometimes disagreed, Angelus pretty much took his direction from Darla until after the soul thing. Similarly, Dru took her direction from Angelus and Spike took his from Drusilla. As the baby of the group, Spike was sort of kicked around by all of them. Based on what I saw, one's position in vamp society had a lot more to do with age and sire order than with gender. For that reason, I think Luke MUST have been older than Darla. If Darla was his oldest child and he still chose Luke as his vessel, I don't think Darla would have been quite the happy little follower we saw.

I also like the theory that she lost some of her status in the group when she chose to go off with Angelus instead of remain with the Master as he bid her. To betray one's sire seems like a major deal in vamp society. I think Darla broke with tradition in a major way when she did that. It seems reasonable that that betrayal may have cost her something in the end.

[Senior Watcher]

its funny that you mention that because i had watched all of season 1 last week and thought that very same thing. why is darla so "timid," especially around luke?

well, i think you answered the question kryptonite. joss, although known for writing out storylines years in advance, could have never foreseen what path darla was going to take. all of us angel fans know in depth her character became.

her character became a strong-willed throughout the years on angel............which is not what we see in season 1 of buffy. its quite confusing. however, it is only noticable to anyone who has watched all of the buffy and angel seasons in chronologic order, then gone back to watch the harvest.

[JCC]

Didn't The Master say that Darla was his favourite?

'GRAAAGGGGHHHHHAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH'
'[Anointed One says something callous]'
'How dare you! She was my favourite...'

[Fake Shemp]

my head hurts now... i doubt joss sits and thinks about this lol