Lindsey's Sexuality?

[Black Eye Guy]

I was looking for some info about Lindsey and was reading through his Wikipedia page and found this funny, just wondering what you all though of it. I had never thought of it before.

Numerous hints and references have been made alluding to Lindsey's sexuality and feelings toward Angel throughout the series; some more obvious than others. In season 2, the 400 year old vampire, Darla asks him if he has a boyfriend. Then, later in the season, when she is kissing him, she remarks that "its not me [Darla] you want to screw, it's him [Angel]." The double entendre is quite obvious in tying sexuality into Lindsey's motivations to attack Angel. During the 100th episode, "You're Welcome," Lindsey comments that "it's not the size that counts big guy, it's how you use it," as he transforms his small dagger into a longer and more powerful weapon. Once again sexuality is tied into a double entendre while regarding Angel. Further hints are given in the last episode where Angel accepts Lindsey's offer to fight in the apocalypse and says "I want you, Lindsey," despite voiced discomfort from both parties, the double entendre was, for the third time tied to sexuality between the two.

Other fans argue that Lindsey's relationship with Eve, which seems to be based on love and affection, confirms his heterosexuality. However, Eve did later on say to Lindsey that "he's [Angel] still the center of your [Lindsey's] world." Joss Whedon himself has never confirmed Lindsey's sexuality one way or the other. Others believe he is bisexual, on the verge of being both. It can only be speculated by fans and critics.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_McDonald)

[NIX]

omg i had never thought of it!!!

[Wicked]

Hahahahah. No way in hell!

Besides he was totally in love with Darla :)

[Bored of the Dead]

Angel was Lindsays 'Arch Enemy' He was the center of his world because he was the one responsible for all the things going wrong for him...or so he thought.

Lindsay was not Gay, he was just so focused on Angel because of the above taht he couldn't think about much else.

[nerd4hire]

What's that doing in Wikipedia anyway? You're seeing that kind of thing more and more in Wikipedia. User contributors slip in their own little, personal theories presented as some kind of widespread, acknowledged fact. It's even worse when you're looking for information on issues that might have some kind of political slant, like the Middle East.

[JoeHundredaire]

Sounds kinda like how people are dead certain Harry and Draco want to go have sex just because they fight.

Sometimes, two people just hate each other and don't think before they talk.

[Angel's vision]

woah Linsdsay and Angel..? just as disturbing as the Spike/Angel have they haven't they stuff! ewwww!
Angel:"I want you lindsay... " I'm thinking about rephrasing that
Lindsay: "I'd be more comfortable if you did"
soooo that prooves both wouldn't entertain the thought, besides people are reading into it more than they should.

[VisionGuy]

That is pretty intresting but I don't think Lindsey was like that. Although it is possible.

[postmortem]

Sounds kinda like how people are dead certain Harry and Draco want to go have sex just because they fight.

Sometimes, two people just hate each other and don't think before they talk.


It is called as "reading the subtext". It is very general in film reading. For example, Jaws and Halloween are considered to be misogynous because in those two the killer (shark and Myers) target women.

What's that doing in Wikipedia anyway? You're seeing that kind of thing more and more in Wikipedia. User contributors slip in their own little, personal theories presented as some kind of widespread, acknowledged fact. It's even worse when you're looking for information on issues that might have some kind of political slant, like the Middle East.


Wikipedia is not a reference source. So there is no reason for any of us to take the site seriously but it gives a brief introduction to the material and sometimes cites the books it used as a reference, but not always, and that's very disturbing. However, fanfiction is not something based on acknowledged facts as you put it because acknowledged fact is very much the same with the creator's opinion in this department. I mean if Whedon says "Lindsey and Angel? Please...", you can assume that it is not his intent to make them lovers. But, there is one example contradicting this, when Tara was first introduced amd started to make spells with Willow, this was read as a romantic relationship between them, and it was denied by the cast and Whedon. By the end of the season they were lovers. Wikipedia just reads the relationship by the given monologues; "I want you, Lindsay" or "You want to screw him (Angel)". How you read them is your choice, but they are there.

[nerd4hire]

You don't contribute to Wikipedia, do you, PostMortem? because what you just did there, that's the problem I have with it. You've presented opinion as fact without support.

The idea Jaws, and Halloween are considered to be misogynist works is an opinion not an accepted fact. I have no doubt there are people who consider the assertion to be true, but without knowing who those people are, or what percentage of the viewership they represent, the statement is only an unsupported opinion.

If you say to me "Wikipedia is probably not always a reliable reference source", I would most likely answer "I agree". If you state as a blanket fact however "Wikipedia is not a reference source", there's a problem with that. It's an opinion, and can be debated. Wikipedia is often used as a reference source. We've all seen people do it. It is presented on the front page as Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. I suggest an encylopedia can be considered a reference source. In my library, encyclopedias are in the reference section.

[postmortem]

You don't contribute to Wikipedia, do you, PostMortem? because what you just did there, that's the problem I have with it. You've presented opinion as fact without support.

The idea Jaws, and Halloween are considered to be misogynist works is an opinion not an accepted fact. I have no doubt there are people who consider the assertion to be true, but without knowing who those people are, or what percentage of the viewership they represent, the statement is only an unsupported opinion.

If you say to me "Wikipedia is probably not always a reliable reference source", I would most likely answer "I agree". If you state as a blanket fact however "Wikipedia is not a reference source", there's a problem with that. It's an opinion, and can be debated. Wikipedia is often used as a reference source. We've all seen people do it. It is presented on the front page as . I suggest an encylopedia can be considered a reference source. In my library, encyclopedias are in the reference section.

Who are the contributors to Wikipedia? Profesors? Are there any names written down the articles on Wikipedia? No. An article should be signed by a name, all encyclopedias list their contributors. Because an encyclopedia can't be anonymous, if it is, then it is hoax and doesn't have a reference source value, that's what I say. Wikipedia labels itself as "free encylopedia" but it has no reference source value because its contributors aren't listed and they do not cite any reference to their 'articles'. I read it and it doesn't take me to contribute to it to point these facts out.
About the idea Jaws, and Halloween being considered to be misogynist works being an opinion not accepted as a fact, by whom exactly are these not accepted, as far as I know, you didn't support it as well. I was giving an example for the film reading which is a branch in cinema criticism, and has tones of programs in any university which has a Film and Television Department.

[Bored of the Dead]

Who are the contributors to Wikipedia? Profesors? Are there any names written down the articles on Wikipedia? No. An article should be signed by a name, all encyclopedias list their contributors. Because an encyclopedia can't be anonymous, if it is, then it is hoax and doesn't have a reference source value, that's what I say. Wikipedia labels itself as "free encylopedia" but it has no reference source value because its contributors aren't listed and they do not cite any reference to their 'articles'. I read it and it doesn't take me to contribute to it to point these facts out.
The point is, Wikipedia promotes itself as a place of fact, but the moment it starts having opinion mixed in all the facts it represents come under the same scrutiny because then you have to go and verify those facts externally from that site.
Namy peopl use that site as a factual source of information and site it thusly, infact many members on this site do the same BECAUSE it labels and considers itself an Encyclopedia.
N4H didn't say that it WAS one, he said that is how they, and many others, perceive themselves.



About the idea Jaws, and Halloween being considered to be misogynist works being an opinion not an accepted fact, by whom exactly are these not accepted, as far as I know, you didn't support it as well. I was giving an example for the film reading which is a branch in cinema criticism, and has tones of programs in any university which has a Film and Television Department.

As for this, could you please show more ignorance if possible?
You have stated one possible interpretation of the subtext of two movies. No one is saying that is the wrong one, only that its not actually stated as fact, its only an opinion.
There are many films with multiple explanantions and interpretations of the text, as well as TV shows and even Music.
So to label two movies as only having one specific meaning THEN bitching at someone who seems to know about these things(lets be honest, N4H seems to live in the world of subtext and interpretation;) ) and suggest that he is wrong because he told YOU that your suggestion that was not the only possible underlying theme because its not fact, shows just how absurd you really are.

[nerd4hire]

Who are the contributors to Wikipedia? Profesors? Are there any names written down the articles on Wikipedia? No. An article should be signed by a name, all encyclopedias list their contributors. Because an encyclopedia can't be anonymous, if it is, then it is hoax and doesn't have a reference source value, that's what I say. Wikipedia labels itself as "free encylopedia" but it has no reference source value because its contributors aren't listed and they do not cite any reference to their 'articles'. I read it and it doesn't take me to contribute to it to point these facts out.
About the idea Jaws, and Halloween being considered to be misogynist works being an opinion not accepted as a fact, by whom exactly are these not accepted, as far as I know, you didn't support it as well. I was giving an example for the film reading which is a branch in cinema criticism, and has tones of programs in any university which has a Film and Television Department.

So we agree on the opinion Wikipedia is not always reliable as a reference source. What's the problem?

Whether, or not it's an acknowledged fact Jaws can be written off as misogynistic we'll leave for another day. It's off-topic here.

[Wicked]

So, who believes Lindsey is gay? No one?

Good. New topic :)

[Faith]

So we agree on the opinion Wikipedia is not always reliable as a reference source. What's the problem?

Whether, or not it's an acknowledged fact Jaws can be written off as misogynistic we'll leave for another day. It's off-topic here.

I've missed you soo much!!!!

I've never given it a second though (his sexuality that is). His feelings for Darla were more than just lust, his feelings for Angel were not of that nature...he took his hand! Of course he is going to harbour a 'certain' type of feelings for him.

[postmortem]

You have stated one possible interpretation of the subtext of two movies. No one is saying that is the wrong one, only that its not actually stated as fact, its only an opinion.


Why is this fixation about facts then? Give source, oh yes it is a source material fixation about Wikipedia? Why are you attacking me at every chance you have it? Did I attack Nerd4Hire? No one was attacking anyone and one minute next you started to put bad remarks on every post I wrote.

[Bored of the Dead]

Why is this fixation about facts then? Give source, oh yes it is a source material fixation about Wikipedia? Why are you attacking me at every chance you have it? Did I attack Nerd4Hire? No one was attacking anyone and one minute next you started to put bad remarks on every post I wrote.


No one is attacking you, we merely have given our opposing opinions on your comments be it in this form or vis the Agree or Disagree Repping system.
That system is not a means to tell someone you like them or not.

[Wicked]

The Blue, you take things way too personally

[SliqueEvents]

I never thought of it like that. Good point of view though ;)

[palabravampiress]

Interesting theory.

I don't see a whole lot of support for it, but I do think it is an interesting theory.

I think that rather than being evidence of Lindsey's or Angel's alleged bisexuality or homosexuality, any double entendre that you see between the two can be fairly interpreted as existing to highlight a struggle for dominance in the relationship. Sex and dominance are closely linked and, in American culture, sexual references and metaphors often indicate dominance.

The verb "to screw" is a perfect example. It has several meanings. One of those meanings is, indeed, sexual in nature, but it also carries with it serious connotations of masculine dominance. From the Oxford English Dictionary, CD-Rom version 3.1, Copyright 2004: coarse slang. a. intr. To copulate, have sexual intercourse (with a person). b. trans. Usu. of a man: to copulate with, have sexual intercourse with (someone). The word is also commonly used to indicate the action of somehow forcing or besting someone else, usually by dishonest means. Again, I refer to the OED: To put compulsion upon, to constrain, oppress. a. To oppress (a person, esp. a tenant) with exactions; also to screw down, to screw out of, to deprive of or dispossess of by extortion. d. slang (chiefly N. Amer.). To defraud (a person, esp. of money), to cheat; to deceive, to ‘rook’; freq. as pa. pple. in to be (or get) screwed. The word itself contains meanings that are related to sex and dominance.

Taken in the context of the Angel/Lindsey relationship, which places Lindsey and Angel on opposite sides of good and evil as well as (eventually) in direct competition for the same position (not to mention the hand thing), it is very easy to interpret the "You want to screw him" comment as well as Lindsey's lust for Darla (Angel's mate) as expressions of a frustrated quest for dominance and power over the man who had beaten him and taken his hand.

This is just my opinion. It is in no way fact. To me, though, the sexual undertones of the Angel/Lindsey relationship are very clearly attributable to issues of male dominance rather than to issues of genuine sexual attraction.

[GATEGOD]

I was looking for some info about Lindsey and was reading through his Wikipedia page and found this funny, just wondering what you all though of it. I had never thought of it before.


Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_McDonald)

lol no, He wasn't 'gay' They just love crack jokes and banter. Lindsey never seemed gay, he and Darla seemed pretty friendly to me. Him and Angel, not so much, but there conversations were hilarious!!

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

I think it was more an ongoing joke rather than an actual insinuation that he was gay.

[Jules]

They do say there's a fine line between love and hate ;)

Personally, I never thought of Lindsey as gay. It just doesn't seem to fit his character.

[GATEGOD]

They do say there's a fine line between love and hate ;)

Personally, I never thought of Lindsey as gay. It just doesn't seem to fit his character.

It doesn't at all. It's more hate and joke than it is Love and flirting. ::huh1:: I never even thought that he was gay ... Never crossed my mind.. ever

[FaithyFivebyFive]

I think some of those quotes and subtext were to be funny, if the amount of gay quote/references to do with Xander were to be taken literally, we'd be questioning his sexuality too.

[BepperGirl]

Lindsey/Angel was always one of my fave slash ships on Angel, but generally it's all in good fun. Seeing beneath the text.

On the Wikipedia subject, I would say that it is not always a reliable source of information. I certainly use it on occasion, but academically, in college, you are taught not to use it as a reference when you are doing a paper.

[white avenger]

The whole hetero/bi/gay thing has been just about beaten to death by Joss and his minions. The most obvious was Willow and Tara, later Kennedy; then came the speculation about Ripper and Ethan; and lord only knows how often the Buffy/Faith undertones have been mentioned. There was Spike and Angel "just that one time," and Xander's "Okay, that's it. I'm goin' gay! C'mon, Will, gay me up," accompanied by the enthralled expression on Andrew's face (and let's not forget Andrew's interest in Spike. Just hero worship, or...). Oh, and that little exchange between Willow and Fred, I'm seeing someone."Now Buffy's "experimenting."

So, what's so unbelievable about Lindsey harboring a secret yen for Angel?

[littlewilly]

To me, it didnt seem like Lindsey had any sort of gayfeeling towards Angel, i actually cant think of one instance to suggest Lindsey is gay/bi.
Just like i dont see anything to suggest Ethen/Giles or Spike/Angel would have been Gay/Bi either.
But The rivalry between Lindsey and Angel in seasons 1 & 2 was one of the best, possibly the best, on Ats.

[BepperGirl]

Lindsey was a very good foil for Angel *nod*

[Lindsey McDonald]

The whole hetero/bi/gay thing has been just about beaten to death by Joss and his minions. The most obvious was Willow and Tara, later Kennedy; then came the speculation about Ripper and Ethan; and lord only knows how often the Buffy/Faith undertones have been mentioned. There was Spike and Angel "just that one time," and Xander's "Okay, that's it. I'm goin' gay! C'mon, Will, gay me up," accompanied by the enthralled expression on Andrew's face (and let's not forget Andrew's interest in Spike. Just hero worship, or...). Oh, and that little exchange between Willow and Fred, I'm seeing someone."Now Buffy's "experimenting."

So, what's so unbelievable about Lindsey harboring a secret yen for Angel?

But......wasn't it you who said that it was just a jealous admiration thing in that other topic? Or am I getting confused? Actually, that's probably more likely!

To me, it didnt seem like Lindsey had any sort of gayfeeling towards Angel, i actually cant think of one instance to suggest Lindsey is gay/bi.
Just like i dont see anything to suggest Ethen/Giles or Spike/Angel would have been Gay/Bi either.
But The rivalry between Lindsey and Angel in seasons 1 & 2 was one of the best, possibly the best, on Ats.

You can't think of one instance? I can think of many.

1. His fascination with Darla and his relationship with Eve. Both had been with Angel.

2. Darla's first comment about whether he has a boyfriend, then her remark that he doesn't want to screw her, but Angel. Interesting pun.

3. Lindsey's obsessive jealously and obsession with Angel. The only other obsessions we see in the 'verse have a (usually twisted) romantic element to them, e.g., Angelus for Buffy, Darla for Angel, early Spike for Buffy.

4. Lindsey's private hell being a happy family with a wife in suburbia. (He did say that it wasn't getting his heart ripped out that was the worst part).

5.Lindsey's line in Not Fade Away "This is not about coveting your neighbour's ass..." The most widely known section of that commandment is "You shall not covet your neighbour's wife". Freudian slip?

6. His last word is "Angel".

7. General body language throughout. Lindsey is always over-eager to impress Angel physically. Lots of standing with arms wide and facing Angel directly. On it's own, I'd say it's just an alpha male thing, but with the rest of this stuff I'm not so sure.

Now, yes, it is most definately all subtext. Nothing explicit or definative. But it does all add up. On their own each point is shakey at best (especially number 4). But as a part of the big picture...

Now I'm not saying that he knows about it or understands it. I'm not saying he goes home at night and writes Angel little love poems. He goes home at night and plots on how to kill him. But I can really see this twisted and perverted desire driving his obsession.

And I mean that the desire itself has been twisted and perverted, not that it is by definition. Just in case that was unclear.

Edit:

I forgot about the whole Eve thing. Firstly, sexuality isn't always as clear cut as Lindsey likes Eve, ergo, Lindsey can never like a guy. I'd have thought people who watched Buffy would have realised that. Secondly, I always got the impression that he was only using Eve. Not Fade Away certainly seems to contradict that (an aspect of that episode I dissagree with majorly for reasons completely outwith Lindsey's sexuality and relating to lazy writing), but the inclusion of the line that says Lindsey is glad that Angel never got his "mitts on" Eve doesn't completely rule anything out. Cause he did. And I'm pretty sure Lindsey would have known it. But that delves into the realms of speculation and sheer fan-wankery, so I'll leave it and stick to the subtexty goodness.

[littlewilly]

Dont know about that Five by Five, id go through each point you made, but they are all sheer speculation.
To say Lindsey was into Angel has no basis at all.
Yeah, he was into Darla and Eve, well, they're sexy, what straight guy wouldnt be.
And Linsey always obsessing/impressing Angel is just down to their rivalry.
Its not because he fancies him.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Dont know about that Five by Five, id go through each point you made, but they are all sheer speculation.
To say Lindsey was into Angel has no basis at all.
Yeah, he was into Darla and Eve, well, they're sexy, what straight guy wouldnt be.
And Linsey always obsessing/impressing Angel is just down to their rivalry.
Its not because he fancies him.

Don't get me wrong, Larla is one of my favourite ships. However, to say there is no basis to the idea is willful ignorance. You may not interpret the subtext that way, and that's fine, but there is sufficiant evidence there to call it subtext. I even said in my post that, yes, you could go through each individual example and they wouldn't hold up, but that's not really the point. It's the fact that the idea was brought up consistently throughout the show in varying degrees of subtlety. You may not see it that way, but you have to admit it can be interpreted that way.

It's just like whether it was the PTB that brought the snow in Amends, The First that brought back Angel, The PTB that let Angel save Kate, The First that manifested as Joyce or Darla, and hopefully some other examples that don't involve The First or The PTB that I can't think of at half one in the morning. It's all subtext, in varying degrees: it can be effectively argued multiple ways. But it's silly to insist that one of these ways is completely impossible without irrefutable evidence.

[littlewilly]

Its not completely impossible and of course can be interpreted that way, but why? first, for some unknown reason people start speculating about Giles/Ethen, Spike/Angel, Xander and now Lindsey and Angel. Whats next?
To suggest Lindsey was into Angel is like saying Joyce was into Spike or Oz was secretly into Xander just coz it cant be disproved.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Its not completely impossible and of course can be interpreted that way, but why? first, for some unknown reason people start speculating about Giles/Ethen, Spike/Angel, Xander and now Lindsey and Angel. Whats next?
To suggest Lindsey was into Angel is like saying Joyce was into Spike or Oz was secretly into Xander just coz it cant be disproved.

Firstly, I never saw any kind of evidence for Ethan/Giles at all, but I may be missing something. I can't say I was exactly looking for it.... So I really don't agree with that one. Spike and Angel did get intimate "that one time," so we do know they did something back in their hedonistic vampire days. That one was presented through direct dialogue, and so can't be argued against. With Xander, the ambiguity is there somewhat. Especially early on. However, Joss has said that that's cause he hadn't decided whether he wanted to make Xander or Willow gay, so that's pretty much been settled.

The Oz and Xander one though is just ridiculous. The difference is that there is evidence to sugest Lindsey had feelings for Angel, and there is evidence to suggest that it was all rivalry. In your example there is no evidence to suggest that Oz liked Xander, so it cannot realisticaly be interpreted that way. Interpretation relies on taking the facts that we are given and trying to come up with what they mean. Lindsey, in the strict confines of the writing, direction and acting in the show, can reasonably be assumed to have feelings for Angel. The same cannot be said about your example. That's the difference.

Edit: Oh, and Joyce was totally into Spike! ;)

[littlewilly]

4. Lindsey's private hell being a happy family with a wife in suburbia. (He did say that it wasn't getting his heart ripped out that was the worst part).

5.Lindsey's line in Not Fade Away "This is not about coveting your neighbour's ass..."

6. His last word is "Angel".

7. General body language throughout. Lindsey is always over-eager to impress Angel physically. Lots of standing with arms wide and facing Angel directly. On it's own, I'd say it's just an alpha male thing, but with the rest of this stuff I'm not so sure.
.

Im changing my mind a bit here, i was being stobborn before but now i see. I'll have to go watch s5 now. These points do make sense.

Point No.5. I cant remember that bit but that sounds like it wouldve been funny. Point 7, to me, also sounds very funny, :lmao:

Also, dont know what this ha to do with anything but why did Dru and Darla spare Lindsey and Lilahs lives?

[Lindsey McDonald]

Im changing my mind a bit here, i was being stobborn before but now i see. I'll have to go watch s5 now. These points do make sense.

Point No.5. I cant remember that bit but that sounds like it wouldve been funny. Point 7, to me, also sounds very funny, :lmao:

Also, dont know what this ha to do with anything but why did Dru and Darla spare Lindsey and Lilahs lives?

O.O I'm actually managing to convince someone! Wow.... I thought I was mad.

Seriously, when you watch Lindsey with all this in mind, it's hilarious. All the getting up in Angel's face and squaring up to him just screams "LOVE ME!!!!!!". Then there's the complete randomness of Lindsey stripping off for their fight in You're Welcome.

And about the last bit? It's cause they're hawt.

[MSchett]

Also, dont know what this ha to do with anything but why did Dru and Darla spare Lindsey and Lilahs lives?

Dru and Darla wanted to leave a link to Wolfram and Hart open
I got the impression they left Lilah alive on accident since she was beaten to hell and Lindsey was in fine shape...

[littlewilly]

More Lindsey qoutes: to Angel: ''Just when i think ive got you ALL figured out, lover, you show up in a suit''

[Lindsey McDonald]

More Lindsey qoutes: to Angel: ''Just when i think ive got you ALL figured out, lover, you show up in a suit''

What? Where! Give me context!

Edit:

littlewilly agrees: well, i addaed the 'lover' bit, but it just reminded me of Lindsey being a closet case. Like impliying he thinks about Angel alot. (damn it, whatsthat ep, is it blood ties or something)

Aww.... But, yeah, pretty much everything he says goes back to Angel.

[GATEGOD]

Wow, just wow. I couldn't disagree with you more. Lindsey isn't, wasn't and couldn't have been 'gay' on "Angel" I've watched Angel about 5 times more then I've watched Buffy, Lindsey, by far my favorite Wolfram and Hart character, and I didn't see him that way at all. Sorry, I just didn't. Maybe I have my blinders on or something but wasn't he sleeping, in love, and with a girl. Him and Angel was more of a love/hate Good/Bad Arch nemesis thing going on which made them close. Not a I want in your pants vibe..

[Lindsey McDonald]

Wow, just wow. I couldn't disagree with you more. Lindsey isn't, wasn't and couldn't have been 'gay' on "Angel" I've watched Angel about 5 times more then I've watched Buffy, Lindsey, by far my favorite Wolfram and Hart character, and I didn't see him that way at all. Sorry, I just didn't. Maybe I have my blinders on or something but wasn't he sleeping, in love, and with a girl. Him and Angel was more of a love/hate Good/Bad Arch nemesis thing going on which made them close. Not a I want in your pants vibe..

Like I said before, since when does sleeping with a girl rule out a person ever wanting to sleep with a guy? That's a ridiculous assertion to make. I guess Willow isn't, wasn't and couldn't have been 'gay' on "Buffy". (And seriously, what's with the inverted commas?). You didn't see it that way, fine, but the subtext is there.

And then you go on and say him and Angel were a love/hate relationship? Err...yeah, that's what we're getting at. I'll assume you didn't mean that.

[SpoonsAreCool]

6. His last word is "Angel".



hahahahahaha. I watched the last ep last night. "Not you, it shoulda been Angel". Lindsey says that to Lorne after he shoots him, what kind of sick love is that?? He wants the guy he loves to kill him, quite sweet really...(?)

[Kemy]

When you think about it, to Lindsey at least, it is kinda of like when the guy sends his best friend around to dump the person instead of doing it himself.

[GATEGOD]

I think you guys are seeing what you want to see, that is my opinion :P

They were arch nemesis not secret goo goo eyed lovers.

[Lindsey McDonald]

I think you guys are seeing what you want to see, that is my opinion :P

They were arch nemesis not secret goo goo eyed lovers.

Nobody's saying that they were actually in love. Well, Spoons is, but since when do we listen to her? Eh, Spoony? :silly:

Anyway, did you ever think it might be you that's seeing what you want to see? Knowing Joss and his love of making every second character sexually ambiguous, combined with Lindsey's body language throughout and seemingly carefully worded throwaway dialogue, it's not at all a stretch to interpret the character that way. But that's what subtext is, by definition. It can be seen in different ways. You can't rule out this one, even if you don't see it that way. If you do, then you really are only seeing what you want to see.

Edit:

SpoonsAreCool agrees: nah Angel didnt love Lindsey, but I think Lindsey had a sick little crush on Angel, nothing wrong with that though. I think it's possible to love and hate someone at the same time.

Oh, that's right, start making sense now...

[SpoonsAreCool]

Lindsey's sexuality?? Hmmmm......

KANE-DAWG (http://www.evil-hand-issues.org/christian/christian_kane_series_mag.jpg)

[littlewilly]

^^ OMFG, its official now. Man, he had to be lustin after Angel, just look at that pic.
He does look kinda gay in that pic, and i think he knows full well what he's doin.

[SpoonsAreCool]

Oh yeah, he's well up for it, the cheeky devil. Just look at those eyes, they're only for his man, Angel.

[pernilleborup]

Interesting ..... truly

[Veyron]

Lindsey's relationship with Angel regarding sexuality is blurry at best - yes, as has been stated many times there were sexual overtones between the two on numerous occassions; personally I think that they're both bi-sexual or bi-curious on Lindsey's part because we know Angel has had a sexual experience with Spike at least once - the reference coming from the episode "The Girl In Question".

[JCC]

^^ OMFG, its official now. Man, he had to be lustin after Angel, just look at that pic.
He does look kinda gay in that pic, and i think he knows full well what he's doin.
How can you look gay? Seriously?

[Lindsey McDonald]

I dont think it was the girl in question, Angel and Spike partaking in a sexual experience together does not mean either of them are gay or bisexual, they could simply be referring to a 3 some with a girl, and there are no "sexual overtones" (whatever the hell that means) between Lindsey and Angel.

Subtext is something that is inserted into a script...(ooh I used the word inserted, this sentence must have some sexual undercurrent to it.. right??), deliberatley by the writer to subtly tell a story or piece of information.

Subtext is not something that can be interpreted in different ways. Suggesting that Lindsey wanted to know Angel intimately is not interpretating subtext, its called making things up. Its not part of the story, it never has been.

Well, fine, perhaps "subtext" isn't the correct word, but if you are trying to say that character motivation and dialouge cannot be interpreted in different ways, then that's just ridiculous. If that's the case, what the hell are we all doing here?

[JCC]

Joss hasn't addressed it all, though. I mean, I didn't get that vibe, but you can't just disregard it.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Hey, mate, If my last post seemed a bit harsh.. then good. Subtext, it feels like, has become my own personal cross to bear. I actually hate the word so much now because it is so misused so often, mostly be people that can't reasonably prove a point they're trying to argue. At which point they pull the word subtext out their ass.

Character motivation is interpreted in different ways just because of the beast it is. It can be argued because human motivation is at times very complex. You also have to consider the fact that while its the writer who creates the story, there are a lot of people telling the story, and they might have different ideas about a character, or a storyline, than the writer has. Then you've got the director, the editors and so on. Ultimately though, all these people are telling the story that the writer created.

If Joss Whedon was to say that Lindsey felt no attraction to Angel then that should be the decider. It should be, but I've seen so many irrational plonkers, some on this site, that will argue still. And subtext is their champion.

Well then I think you're letting the misuse of the word subtext cloud your judgement. Of course if Joss said that Lindsey felt nothing but absolute hatred for Angel we'd not argue. (Well, it wouldn't stop people from slashing, but it wouldn't be seriously considered as a valid point). It's like the whole Harry/Draco thing. Jo has specifically said that it's all wishful thinking on the shippers' part, and that's fine. People gave up theorising seriously on that point.

However like JCC said, Joss, nor any of the writers who wrote Lindsey, has never said anything on the subject. Why would they? They wrote it, and the product should stand for itself. It should stand to be interpreted for itself. Like you yourself said, "Character motivation is interpreted in different ways just because of the beast it is. It can be argued because human motivation is at times very complex." That is all we are doing. Barring one of the principle writers, or Joss himself, saying that a twisted desire was never a motive for Lindsey, I feel that there is sufficient evidence to support the idea.

So there.


*hopes he isn't an irrational plonker*

[GATEGOD]

Maybe the writers never bring up the subject because it's never crossed theirs minds, because they didn't create any subtext :p *runs away*

[DrusillaRox]

Can I say that? Any way, I saw on a thread someone saying that lindsey's gay....And I kindof agree!

Thoughts?: erm :

[Lindsey McDonald]

Maybe the writers never bring up the subject because it's never crossed theirs minds, because they didn't create any subtext :p *runs away*

It obviously crossed their minds. "I'm thinking about re-phrasing that" and "It's not me you want to screw. [...] It's him." prove that. They wouldn't be funny otherwise.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Psst!

Lindsey's Sexuality? - Buffy-Boards (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=26619)

;)

Edit:

Knowing my luck, automerging will occur, and I'll look crazy for once!

[hannahfngrl26]

I think Lindsey is gay for Angel!!! Wow, um, at first I was kidding but now that I think about it he really came across that way. Interesting.

[DrusillaRox]

heehee I think that Lindsey has the hots for Angel!

[Lindsey McDonald]

And, yes, as expected, I look like a crazy Swede. Well fine. I'll just not be helpful next time. :silly:

Anyway, back on topic. I have 2 new converts! Yeah!