Giles: Hero or Villain?

[Jules]

Ok, so we know Giles is Buffy's Watcher and he has guided and trained her through the better part of 7 years. He's helped train the perfect Slayer who has stopped at least 7 apocalypses.

But we also know that Giles has no problem killing innocents for the greater good. He was willing to kill Dawn at the end of Season 5 and he killed Ben (who was a human innocent - sort of). He also wanted to kill Spike. Now, I know Spike can't be classed as an innocent but he was all soul having and trying to do good.

So, the real question is: does Giles' motives outway the act or is he slowly chipping away his humanity?

Doyle told Angel in Season 1 ''One day soon one of those helpless victims that you don't really care about is going to look way too appetizing to turn down. And you'll figure hey! what's one against all I've saved? Might as well eat them. I'm still ahead by the numbers!.''

Giles wont ever actually want to eat anyone, but is the principal not that same?

If you stop caring about the individuals and only focus on the grand scheme does that mean you have to sacrifice some morals to do it?

What do you think?

[Wicked]

Its not that he doesnt care. He loves dawn. The point is, he believes that if one person was to die for the whole world to survive, its a fair trade.

And why not? If the world ends that person is gonna die anyway. It has nothing to do with making him less humane or whatever, he just wants to save the world.

[Jules]

But that's the thing..Buffy is classed as a Hero because she does care about the individuals. She wont let one person be sacrificed for the greater good. Taking a human life, no matter the reason is a seriously cold thing to do, not everyone has the capacity for it.

And we know Giles has no problem with torturing people to get information.....

[Wicked]

Ok, so if Buffy let the world end (knowing thats what would happen and doing nothing to prevent it) to save one person (who would die anyway) does that make her a hero? Or does that make her selfish? Saving one person she cares about at the expense of the rest of the world?

[Lyri]

also, by the time S7 came along, Giles asked Buffy again if she would sacrifice Dawn to save the world, Buffy replied yes, because in those years inbetween she realized that one human life wasn't worth the entire world.
i wouldn't exactly class Giles as a hero, but i wouldn't call him a villian either...

[Wicked]

Funnily enough Im watching that episode right now. She said if she had to, she would let Dawn die to save the world :)

[zombie.apparatus]

also, by the time S7 came along, Giles asked Buffy again if she would sacrifice Dawn to save the world, Buffy replied yes, because in those years inbetween she realized that one human life wasn't worth the entire world.
i wouldn't exactly class Giles as a hero, but i wouldn't call him a villian either...

i would agree with this Lyri.. i wouldnt call him villian nor would i call him a hero.. good way to put it :biggrin:

[MentPatient]

Actually, I agree with Giles' actions... kind of.

He was right, Glory would re-emerge and wreck havoc upon the world, or at least on Buffy.
Not that Buffy couldn't, possibly defeat her again but wasn't Glory weakened by the... timing (I forget already, the special time needed to perform the ritual).

[Ladybug]

I don't really know how to approach this topic. Giles is definetly not a villain, but you could hardly call him a hero. I think I'm pretty much agreeing with Lyri here.

[Syu]

May I say that Giles sometimes looks like a Nietzschean character ? He's beyond good and evil, he does whatever he must do to save his beloved ones, and the world. But can we say that a tornado is good or evil ?

By the way, I always loved his mysterious connections with darker things, like his old friend Ethan.

[Mortal]

Sure he's a hero in his own right, just not a super hero like Buffy, Angel, etc. but he fights the good fight.

[Syu]

Yeah, as does Spike.

[Blade69]

Giles is the kind of person that "gets the job done." He doesn't "want" to kill the one person (or Dawn) but know's how to look at the "whole picture." If you have to sacrifice the one person for the greater good, he won't be happy with it, but ecepts it as it is. Buffy doesn't. She keeps working & working so the one person is saved. That's why SHE jumped & didn't let dawn.

[palabravampiress]

Giles is the person that does and says things that other people can't, that they shouldn't have to. Giles doesn't live in a black and white world. He makes the difficult decisions, the decisions other people can't.

He was wrong about Spike in season 7, though.

Yes! This is how I see Giles. He does what is necessary - even if it isn't pretty or nice. There's nothing wrong with being big picture guy. The world needs those, too. I think Giles has the maturity and the bravery to at least try to protect Buffy and co. from that side of things for as long as possible. He takes a lot onto his own shoulders. It's easy to forget that he's not a slayer or a witch or anything at all, really. He's just a man, and yet he's the one to whom all of the other characters turn when they are in need of guidance, leadership, or assistance. Giles is awesome in part because he has the strength to make the difficult decisions and then to live with the consequences.

[Joyce Summers]

Palabravampiress just like summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say, haha. Giles does do what has to be done, when no one else is prepared to do it. I mean when he says about having to kill Dawn, he's as upset about the concept as Buffy is, but he knows it may be the only remaining option. He says something like 'If the ritual starts, then every living creature in this and every other dimension imaginable will suffer unbearable torment and death ... including Dawn' and he tells her sadly when Buffy says the last thing Dawn'll see is her protecting her 'you'll fail. you'll die. we all will'. And I do agree with him killing Ben. I know he was technically human and people say he was innocent, but was he? I mean how can he be innocent when he was willing to kill Dawn just to save his own skin? And if he hadn't been killed Glory would have come back and it would have all been for nothing as Glory would have killed everyone in Buffy's life.
Like Palabravampiress said,most tend to forget that really he's just an ordinary guy-no special powers- nothing and yet he does so many things, and the entire gang do in fact turn to him for guidance. Giles doesn't see things black and white and while the others see in shades of gray also, he seems to be the only willing or the only one who has strength to work through the shades to come to a solution, no matter how difficult the final decision is.
And Jules said that he isn't bothered about torturing people for information- you mean like Glory's minion and Ethan? Coz they're the only two I can think of. And I think it was pretty cool both those times. I loved it when Giles tapped into his darker side.
In conclusion I don't think Giles is a villain at all, nor as someone said on here is making the difficult decision on his part stripping away his humanity. He is definitely one of the good guys and maybe he isn't in the same vein or superhero column as Buffy, but I would say he's a hero. An underrated one perhaps...

[sosa lola]

I think Giles is a hero. His decisions are hard and might be seen as cruel, but he doesn them because he believes they're right. I even think that wanting to kill Spike was his attempt to save the world as well, Spike was under the First's influance, The First had said that it had plans for Spike in the future (note Giles' look when he heard that info in First Date), and Giles thought because Buffy was too obsessed with Spike, she may not make the right decision, just like she did with Dawn in The Gift.