The Book of Fours

[The Chosen]

I got this book mainly because it had India on the cover, and that was when I was still calling her India like the country! But I absolutely loved this book.

"Who's Buffy? And why does she need my faith?"

Ha!

[SpikedBuffy]

This is a Buffy book that I can read many times over. I think I like the mummies and their boxes with their axes. It's interesting how they are tied to the four elements.

I found it interesting to read about the slayer that came before Buffy.

I've always had a hard time figuring out where in the timeline it is though. Because Faith is involved, and she's not really living her "I'm in jail life" is she? And it has to be sometime after season four because Anya is in it.

What do you guys think?

[The Chosen]

It takes place in Season 3 actually, before Faith goes bad. And I didn't know Anya was in it...

[SpikedBuffy]

Hmm...I'll have to double check that then. I could have it mixed up with a different buffyverse novel.

[The Chosen]

I think you did get them all mixy. Anya did not appear for sure...hey, look! We're gettin all active!

That sounded wronger than when I said it in my head... :-p

[Edmund Blackadder]

I always placed this book before 'The Zeppo' which works well for me.

I liked this book. I was interested in the Slayer that died which allowed Buffy's call.
I've often thought that it seemed peculiar that Buffy never made any attempt to find out(on screen) about her predesessor especially in her season 5 storyline trying to find more about the Slayer.
This book doesn't fill any holes for me as none of the work done in novels has any 'canon' aspects, but it was still interesting none the less:)

[The Chosen]

Well, India has been used a few more times, too, so...

And Lucy Hanover. She was in this book, and the TV advertisement. Just because Joss may or may not have been involved (which of course, he was) Lucy isn't canon! That just...GR!

[Edmund Blackadder]

Well, India has been used a few more times, too, so...

And Lucy Hanover. She was in this book, and the TV advertisement. Just because Joss may or may not have been involved (which of course, he was) Lucy isn't canon! That just...GR!

...........emmm what?

[The Chosen]

Ok, before Buffy aired, there was a little "History of the Slayer" TV ad that featured Arabella Gish and Lucy Hanover, two of my favorite Slayers. The only thing is, Lucy made it on TV but she isn't canon because Joss's involvement in that ad is questionable. When Joss is in it's canon, when he's out, no chance.

[SpikedBuffy]

Lucy is also featured into many other novels as well.

[The Chosen]

I know. She is widely used. But it just amazes me that she is not canon.

[Edmund Blackadder]

I know. She is widely used. But it just amazes me that she is not canon.

Why does it 'amaze' you?
The novels are nothing more than published fanfic. IF Joss had no input and he doesn't publically say 'these are part of the Whedonverse' then they have nothing to do with the show.

[The Chosen]

I know that. But I just think if a character is going to be used like that, he should at least take the time to consider making something canon. I mean, Tales of the Slayer. Half of those aren't canon.

Oh, no...now we're spamming...um...

It was really not funny to see (or imagine) Willow bald and hurt. *sniff*

[Mesektet Ra]

To make my brain hurt less, I, perosnally, consider the books canon. I makes my brain a happy brain, and it hurts me to think Slayers with such presence, like Lucy, aren't part of the canonized 'Buffyverse'. Argh. No way.

Anyway, LOVED LOVED LOVED this book. I'm glad I got to have my Kendra back, even in a stunted, Cordelia-shaped way. Oh, imagining that makes me giggle. HA.

[The Chosen]

I so loved how Nancy substituted Willow and Cordy for the Slayers. It was an original idea, I think! I think this was my very first Buffy book, which makes it even more special! :D

Edit:

Bored of the Dead disagrees: WHY? This character is not on the show he created. It's not even someone he actually knows because Joss doesn't read the books. Your point is flawed as is your understanding.

Actually, your point is flawed. Joss is kind of obligated to read these novels (though not in full) so they may pass as original merchandise.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Actually, your point is flawed. Joss is kind of obligated to read these novels (though not in full) so they may pass as original merchandise.

Come back when you have a clue ok.
Joss is under no such obligation. The books are not part of his company thus not under his supervision. If they were then ALL would be canon.
Mutant Enemy allows particular publishing companies to 'lease' the title and characters to which they can do anything they wish as long as they do not contradict something the creator has written.
Joss has no obligation to these creations then, the writers on the other hand, they do. They have to be aware of what is going on in the show, even sometimes receiving a 'brief' of possible 'future' stories.

IF you truly wish to argue this, please feel free as I am pretty well versed in this kind of thing, so I will gladly point out why and where you are wrong.

[The Chosen]

A number of comments by Buffyverse writers have indicated that although they know they are not writing Buffyverse canon, overviews for their stories may still have been checked over by Whedon.

Referring to Whedon, Christopher Golden said "He has to approve everything. I should say, his office has to approve everything, so sometimes he gets more involved than others in doing those approvals".[14] "There are times in both books and comics when I know he has gotten involved because the word, sort of, comes down from him.".[15] Similarly Peter David, was asked about his comic, Spike: Old Times, "Did you get any input from Whedon himself?" He replied that "Ostensibly comments came from Whedon, although for all I know, it was from an associate."

So...Joss has some degree of involvement. And trust me, if you wish to argue I am in no position to step down. Let's just take it to PM so we no longer spam this thread. Ok? GOOD.

[Edmund Blackadder]

So...Joss has some degree of involvement. And trust me, if you wish to argue I am in no position to step down. Let's just take it to PM so we no longer spam this thread. Ok? GOOD.

Ahh, Wikipedia, the last bastion of 'fact' on the internet....umm no.

Also read what it actually says.
See I like this line

A number of comments by Buffyverse writers have indicated that although they know they are not writing Buffyverse canon, overviews for their stories may still have been checked over by Whedon.
So, the Buffyverse writers say MAY be checked....MAY.

I like this line too.
Referring to Whedon, Christopher Golden said "He has to approve everything. I should say, his office has to approve everything, so sometimes he gets more involved than others in doing those approvals".
I highlighted the part I liked.
This does not say Whedon has any contact, just the office.

Ohh, another line.
"There are times in both books and comics when I know he has gotten involved because the word, sort of, comes down from him.".
The reason I like this line is because one moment the 'writer' states they 'know' he is involved then clearly says 'sort of, comes down from him' showing that he really doesn't know what, if anything is from Whedon.

BUT my favourite line, the best of all, is in that last bit.
Similarly Peter David, was asked about his comic, Spike: Old Times, "Did you get any input from Whedon himself?" He replied that "Ostensibly comments came from Whedon, although for all I know, it was from an associate."

Not once does any of the 'quotes' say Whedon has input JUST the manuscripts go through his office.
In that last comment Peter David isn't sure what level of interest Whedon has in the product.

So, Joss has a degree of involvement that is "Mutant Enemy allows particular publishing companies to 'lease' the title and characters to which they can do anything they wish as long as they do not contradict something the creator has written."

Which I think you will see, I have already written, as I also wrote " They have to be aware of what is going on in the show, even sometimes receiving a 'brief' of possible 'future' stories."

[The Chosen]

Whatever...I don't feel like spamming anymore.

So...since that's over...how about we actually talk about the books.

I kind of liked how all the Slayers came to help fight the battle. Wait...were there Slayers or am I just...I haven't read this book in a while.

[SpikedBuffy]

Yes, there were Slayers, just in a nonconventional sense. India and Kendra were inhabiting Willow and Cordelia's bodies.


And just to put my two cents in on the while Joss/canon/checked over/it's dumb to read them/you're an idiot situation:

I like to read. If a book has a story, I read. I do not waste time considering the fact whether another author/production company/office/whatever has put their stamp of approval on it. Reading is supposed to provide you with a visual imagination of that story. That's what I get and I'm happy.

[Edmund Blackadder]

I like to read. If a book has a story, I read. I do not waste time considering the fact whether another author/production company/office/whatever has put their stamp of approval on it. Reading is supposed to provide you with a visual imagination of that story. That's what I get and I'm happy.

Which is absolutely fine. That is how the books should be read...until you start discussing the show and elements of plot.
The books, numerous times, contradict what is 'canon'.
This is probably one of the reasons Joss, or to a greater extent Mutant Enemy, doesn't really have much connection with the books only in the leasing of the title and major story themes.
The moment they have a true link, these writers are creating stories that can be classed as 'canon' which will mess with what Joss and co have already made, or will decide to make, happen.

[Jules]

Ok, so back to The Book Of Fours...I really liked this book. I liked how they linked the Slayers to the four elements. Faith definitely comes across as a fire element to me, and Kendra fits being an earth element.

I liked the Watcher/Slayer relationship between Kit and India. If its forbidden for a Slayer to love a vampire, I'm sure it works the same for a Slayer to love her Watcher.The scene between India and Buffy was good when India is saying she wasn't strong enough to but her slaying before her love. In that sense Buffy is the better of the two slayers, although India proved herself by saving the day at the end by instructing them all on what to do.

[Bangelxx]

I know this is an old thread but I'm reading this book at the moment and I just wanted to have my say about it:D
I really like this book so far, they capture the dialogue between the characters so well, and it has this great Bangel moment...:p*sigh* The story is great, but I don't really get the start of the book when Willow jumps off the cliff....anybody want to explain that?

[The Chosen]

I know this is an old thread but I'm reading this book at the moment and I just wanted to have my say about it:D
I really like this book so far, they capture the dialogue between the characters so well, and it has this great Bangel moment...:p*sigh* The story is great, but I don't really get the start of the book when Willow jumps off the cliff....anybody want to explain that?

You just have to read the rest of the book to find out. If we tell you, the book'd be ruined. I'll give you a hint though: It's not really Willow.

Add-On

Just reread the thread -- and wow. TC acted like a real kid in his early days, didn't he? A lot of the things I said didn't make sense...anyway, BoTD, sorry for all that. Rereading that makes me embarrased, lol.