Did Gunn Survive the Battle?

[CharmedSlayer85]

Do you think Gunn survived? I mean it would be HIGHLY unrealistic if he did survive unless somebody did some major protecting of him, because Gunn was like beaten VERY badly. Mind you he was strong enough to walk to the alley, but he was bloody and bruised and could hardly stand, yet Angel was fully charged up with Hamilton's blood, and Spike looked fine, and of course Illyria was stronger then all of them put together even with her power diminished. And plus those demons didn't look like vampires and such, there were dragons and large ogre type demons. I don't see anyway he could have survived that.

[Luciferian]

i imagine he wouldnt have lasted much longer. the other 3 would have lasted for a while but if the amount of demons coming was as bad as the prophesies and stuff said....i dont think they would have done much better after the first wave or so

[postmortem]

As much as I want him to have survived, I highly doubt that he did. He was badly wounded and the gang in general had verly little chance in surviving the last battle, let alone Gunn with his condition.

[jesterjay]

Gonna have to go with no on this one. Illyria, made mention that he'd only last for 10 minutes, and I'm thinking with all the battles she's gone through she'd know better.

[Lyri]

i wrote a fic a while ago based just after the end credits of NFA, and i have to admit, Gunn didn't survive in my version of events. he was too badly beaten, and he looked liked he had a wound in his stomach, i really can't see him surviving if they were on their own.
but we don't know what happened, maybe the slayers swooped in to rescue them. maybe the PTB's pulled some strings and got them all out.
we'll never know for sure.

[Immortal_Slayer]

If i remember rightly from the Queen of the slayers book he survived, the book is what would of happened after season 7 of buffy.

[jesterjay]

Queen of the Slayers eh...I gotta pick that up...but is it immediately following Season 7?

Cuz if so, then Gunn would still be alive because the final fight in NFA hadn'th happened yet

[Immortal_Slayer]

Without spoiling the book for everyone it explains alot of things in it :)

[The Master]

"Queen of the Slayers" is set immediately after Buffy Season Seven. They're all on the School Bus driving away from the Sunnydale Crater. The book spans a whole Season so it does cover the battle at the end of "Not Fade Away" and also ties in with the references to Buffy characters in Angel Season 5. Despite this it isn't considered canon in the same way as the Buffy Season 8 comics are. Still it's worth a read though.

Back on topic: Gunn most definetly died. He was badly wounded and faced a horde of powerful demons. Although, I believe in the Angel comics based after "Not Fade Away" he survived the battle but lost an arm while fighting. Again this isn't canon and I truly believe that he's dead.

Although, Amy Acker stated that if the TV movies were made Gunn would have been made a vampire (Possibly sired during the battle like Harmony on Graduation Day). He would also have been the central villain which is interesting considering Gunn's story arc with vampires throughout the series.

[Lyri]

ok, if there had been a S6 of Angel, Gunn was going to be the one who died and would have become a vampire. which also means that Wes would have survived.

back to Queen of the Slayers, which is NOT cannon and not all that great a read, it takes us up to the battle in the alley during NFA, but it doesn't show the outcome of the fight, only the four of them diving into battle, so it's still possible that he died.

[freakydorky]

YES! And if anyone tries to tell me otherwise I'll shoot them in the kneecap.

[Tranquillity]

Queen of the slayers is AWFUL!! Thank goodness for the comic so that the events of that book are well and truely contradicted.

I also think Gunn would have died in the fight though, in my mind the three superheros would have survived somehow (possibly with some slayer intervention) though i'm not sure what Angel and Spike would have done with Illyria once the battle was over.

[CharmedSlayer85]

Yeah I thought the Queen of Slayers book sucked too, thank God it wasn't canon, but according to every book that has come out talking about the events after Buffy and Angel, Gunn survives somehow, in some versions he loses an arm and in some he's completely alive so I don't know how it might play out. Joss might have him alive in the Season Eight comic, but if he does I hope he explains how in the hell that happened. But I can assume since Amy Acker was apart of the show that what she said about Gunn would be true, that he would have become a vampire during the fight and would have become the villian. Which I think would have both sucked and been interesting since one of Angel's gang has AGAIN turned evil and will die, but suck cause I like Gunn. ONe thing about Angel though all of his people are dying. Doyle, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, and now Gunn and Angel and Spike are dead themselves, so it's like nobody in Angel's camp survives.

[alexa]

I hope Gunn survives, I really like him. I mean bloody hell, they kill off my favourite Angel character (Wesley) and now it looks like Gunn's about to pass out in the alley. I'm still hoping there is some magical way Wesley isn't dead, but I can't think of any. :( I'm not sure the 4 of them could have survived the legion of demons coming down the alley.. although it would be cool to see Angel slay a dragon. There must have been a way for them to escape, so that way Gunn might not have died. I know he was meant to be a vampire if season six happened, but I kind of hate that idea. After everything that's happened to him and his sister, I would have been cranky.

[DantePD]

I like to think he did. And to be honest, I've seen guys WAY more messed up than that jump into a fight and win. But, they wern't fighting a horde of hellspawn either, so...

[MarsGirl]

I always assumed that Gunn had died. I mean, he did already have one foot in the grave, so to speak. It would take a miracle (or the complete opposite of one, if the vampire thing happened to him) for him to survive that.

[Tranquillity]

If only there'd been a season 6 and 7....
Gunn as a vampire would have been great. he would have been a real badass vampire with street knowledge from his gang days, personal knowledge of Angel from the fang gand days and all that legal/demon knowledge from the W&H days. He's have made a fantastic vampire boss with the potential to cause lots and lots of problems for the survivors, and for extra spice he could have teamed up with Dru.

[Mandy333]

If only there'd been a season 6 and 7....
Gunn as a vampire would have been great. he would have been a real badass vampire with street knowledge from his gang days, personal knowledge of Angel from the fang gand days and all that legal/demon knowledge from the W&H days. He's have made a fantastic vampire boss with the potential to cause lots and lots of problems for the survivors, and for extra spice he could have teamed up with Dru.First off I don't think Gunn lived through the whole battle at all. I also agreed that being a vampire would have been great. I do think for Gunn that would have been his greastest fear.I'd would have like to see how he dealt with the one thing in the world he would not wanted to be a vampire.

[Spirit_Of_Fred]

i like this idea too, except that we couldnt see how "he'd" react because "he" would be the soulless demon and love every minute. do you think they'd end up having to stake him, or there'd be some sort of loophole in the end, like spike's chip or angel's soul?

[Mandy333]

I'm not sure how Angel would have reacted to Gunn being a vampire, that would be interesting to see.

[Ashxking]

It depends on who made him a vampire. Angel only turned one person sence he had a soul and that guy didnt seem to be a souless killer like most vamps

[The Master]

It depends on who made him a vampire. Angel only turned one person sence he had a soul and that guy didnt seem to be a souless killer like most vamps

There would have been vampires in the Demon army Wolfram & Hart sent to destroy Angel and Co. So we can assume he would have been sired by one of them. Actually, I think it would have been better if Harmony (Following orders Hamilton gave her off-screen) followed Angel to the Alley after they both left Wolfram & Hart and she was the one who sired Gunn.

I definetly agree with Gunn teaming up with Drusilla. Although, I think Gunn would actually have become a servant of Wolfram & Hart. After losing control over that reality Gunn would become their one and only link to that world. The Senior Partners could have planned this all along which makes sense considering the storylines Gunn had at Wolfram & Hart in Season 5. The Legal Knowledge, Those creepy scenes with him and the Conduit etc. could have been building to his Season 6 arc.

Who's to say that some hidden stuff in his brain (Added when he got the Legal Upgrade) wouldn't be activated when he became a vampire? Making him the one who fulfills Wolfram & Hart's long-planned Apocalypse. Drusilla would have definetly been entertaining to watch in how she interacted with Angel and more significantly Spike.

Wow, I've just planned Season 6 based on assumptions. Guess I should continue that Fan Fiction... :P

[Ashxking]

I thought that it took a few days to turn into a vampire. That would give Angel and company time to find Gunn's body and cut off his head and stake his heart.

Also wouldn't the rising sun (If they lasted that long) kill alot of the vamps,demons and whatever else was there

[jesterjay]

Demons not so much - Vamps for sure! The sun doesn't really kill demons

[The Master]

I think the Senior Partners would have been able to block out the sun just in the area of the Alley. But I doubt the vampires would have stayed behind, after Gunn gets sired they'd all have got his body as far away from the Alley as possible.

I imagine the battle would have gone on for hours, maybe even days, in that time there would be no chance of finding Gunn before he rose. They wouldn't even know what happened, for all they know some giant Demon could have eaten him whole during the fight.

[Darling Faithy]

I defintily think either Gunn died or was turned into a vampire, Illyria told him he had about 10 good minutes left in him, at that. I dont think there was anyway Gunn survived unless some miracle happened, though I think the only people that really survived that battle was Illyria and possibly Angel..if him, which makes me sad to think about Spike..but it was a great big battle to fight.

[spuffy]

I would be really sad if any of "what remained" the fang gang died especially Spike. I would like to think they all have survived but that's just too dreamy. I don't want to think about it.

[palabravampiress]

I think Gunn and Angel died. I think Illyria and Spike survived. See below for my reasoning.

Like the others have said, Gunn was already dying from loss of blood. The vampire thing, I find unlikely. First, why would a vamp bother with an empty glass? Second, Gunn is great at dusting vamps. Whatever got close enough to kill him, it was probably not a vamp. I'm guessing he fought until he passed out, at which point he was either eaten by something or trampled by the hordes.

As for Angel, I think he died. Think about it. He signed away the Sanshu prophecy. Someone had to remain to fulfill the prophecy, so that means Spike must have lived to be a real boy again. The chances of either vamp surviving without intervention from the powers were pretty slim to begin with. It looks like the intervention all went to Spike, so that's why my money is on Angel dying.

Then, there's Illyria. Illyria is a super-strong God lady. Plus, her "body," such that it is, has been "hollowed out." Unless they chop her in half or decapitate her or something, I think she'd survive. I mean, you could run her through with a sword, but you're not really gonna hit anything vital. Like the vamps, she's just a reanimated corpse. Unlike the vamps, she's a God and she's not allergic to sunlight, holy water, or wood. She's probably got some deep reserves of God power in there somewhere, too, so I'm guessing she would have had the ability to stage her own divine intervention, being divine and all. Even if that's not what happened, I'm not entirely sure she can be killed. I mean, she was held captive in a sarcophagus for thousands and thousands of years, but she didn't "die." Her shell might be able to be broken or killed, but I'm not sure her essence can be destroyed.

If I were Illyria, I would have brought Wesley's little ray gun and retrieved my extra special God power. If the blast was gonna take out L.A., then surely controlled bursts of power from that gun could have seriously thinned the demon hordes.

So yeah. I think Gunn died. I think Angel died. I think Illyria probably survived in some form, but not in Fred's body. I think Spike probably turned into a human thanks to the Sanshu prophecy and high-tailed it to the slayers to inform them that, hey, dragons and other big monsters were ravaging L.A., so could they please get their butts to the front line and save L.A.? I don't think Spike would have survived long, mind you, but I think someone had to survive long enough to get in contact with the slayer army, and I think the Sanshu prophecy is what would have allowed Spike to be the one to do that.

[Keanoite]

I guess we'll find out what really happened next week.

[GATEGOD]

I still believe Gunn survived. I mean he took out all those vampires, by himself, i doubt buffy could even do that most days lol. Come on where is the optimism Gunn could have survived they could have protected him. Some reinforcements from who knows where could have came and helped them anything is possible. Anything!!

[Keanoite]

I hope he survived too but how could a human, a broken human at that survive hell?

[GATEGOD]

Will power. I am not liking everyone believing he died. If he doesn't will you all protest and yell oh no this great character should have died...
You could try and be positive and keep hope alive until the day when all your hopes are crushed and you are reduced to a pile of ashes.

^_^

[Keanoite]

Your a glass half full type of guy?? ok how about this? even if he did die, this is the Jossverse where N.E.R.D. rules...so even if he did die we will see him again!

[Senior Watcher]

*shaking magic 8 ball*

magic 8 ball says: "its difficult to say. please try again when the comic book comes out in a few days."

[ILLYRIAN]

I agree that Gunn died during the fight in the alley. In the fanfic I wrote he was made a vampire by Angel, and Wesley by Spike and Willow gave them souls, enabled more jokes that way.
Considering the state he was in, I don't think he could have done much fighting anyway.

[GATEGOD]

lol atleast he would be alive ^ I just don't want him dead! they already killed off Cordy,Wes, and Fred, the only thing that would be okay if Gunn died, is if Oz came back and could wpolf out and control it and kick some demon ass ^_^

[white avenger]

Joss has said several times in the past that the people in the alley survived, that it was not supposed to be a cliffhanger, and that Gunn was planned to be a vampire and possibly be the big bad of Season 6 if there had been one, and that his plans for Season 6 in comic book form would pretty much be he same as the tv show would have been, only without regard to visual budget.

My only comment to that is, "Yeah, and Buffy was supposed to be living in Rome, cuddling with the Immortal." If someone comes up with a better idea, he immediately alters canon to incorporate it into the show, so it's still pretty much anybody's guess as to just what really, finally, ends up happening. The only one that I would feel confident in asuming survived the battle in the alley is Angel, and only him because...well, heck, he's the title character.

[palabravampiress]

Joss has said several times in the past that the people in the alley survived, that it was not supposed to be a cliffhanger, and that Gunn was planned to be a vampire and possibly be the big bad of Season 6 if there had been one, and that his plans for Season 6 in comic book form would pretty much be he same as the tv show would have been, only without regard to visual budget.

My only comment to that is, "Yeah, and Buffy was supposed to be living in Rome, cuddling with the Immortal." If someone comes up with a better idea, he immediately alters canon to incorporate it into the show, so it's still pretty much anybody's guess as to just what really, finally, ends up happening. The only one that I would feel confident in asuming survived the battle in the alley is Angel, and only him because...well, heck, he's the title character.

I didn't know there was going to be a comic. That sort of changes my opinion on things.