Angel: After the Fall (spoilers)

[goldenboy]

SDCC '07: BRIAN LYNCH ON ANGEL: AFTER THE FALL

by Troy Brownfield

It’s been a hope of many fans of the Buffyverse ever since “Buffy Season 8” kicked off, and now that hope is finally realized. Angel gets to continue fictional life (or is that undeath?) in comic form at IDW with Angel: After the Fall. The man tapped for the writing chores by creator Joss Whedon himself will already be familiar to fans of Angel-related comics: he’s Brian Lynch, the writer of Spike: Asylum and Spike: Shadow Puppets. We’ve spoken to Lynch, and he delivers as much as he can from behind the cloak of secrecy (and pesky Wolfram and Hart contracts).

Newsarama: You'll be working on Angel: After the Fall; how did you get involved with the project?

Brian Lynch: I wrote a comic called Spike: Asylum, based on a character from Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel named, of course, Asylum. Literally the day before issue 1 came out I ran into Joss at breakfast and told him what a huge fan I was and told him that the comic book was coming out. He said he'd check it out, and hurried away before his people tackled me and made me sign certain documents saying I would never come within fifty yards of him again.

A few weeks went by and IDW Editor in Chief Christopher "Chris" Ryall sent an e-mail telling me to call him and I did and Chris proceeded to read this very complementary, somewhat life-changing e-mail from Mr. Whedon saying that he enjoyed Spike: Asylum and thinks that maybe the time is right to officially continue the Angel story and that I would be the guy to write it.

We traded e-mails back and forth for a while and eventually met up for breakfast and he told me all his ideas and I told him the one I had ("Angel should fight monsters!") and then I put some of the ideas to paper, slowly the story's spine started to form, I'd send him an e-mail with more ideas, he'd send an e-mail back with even better ideas, it slowly but surely became the greatest story of all time and he was all "this is neat" and here we are.

NRAMA: With the involvement of Joss Whedon, this is the canoncial follow-up to the five seasons of the television series, right?

BL: Yes, it certainly is. Everything that happens in these pages officially happens to these characters. It's pretty exciting and kind of daunting. But the script for issue 1 is ready and the first five or six issues or so are very tightly planned out and I must say, it's a fine continuation. I think people will be pleased. And shocked. And hurt. And then pleased again. But a little hurt. But mostly excited. And a little sleepy. Because man, they stayed up too late last night.

NRAMA: Can you tell us anything at all about the plot basics or characters involved?

BL: Spike definitely enters into the story. But I must say, I'm writing who or what the story needs. It's not about favorites at all, it's about telling the best story we can.

And certain characters are surprising me. There is a character in the first issue that I never really "bonded" with on the show. Joss had a wonderful idea for said character in the book, so he-or-she is in the first issue, setting up his-or-her (Good Lord this is annoying, sorry) story, and it was kind of a revelation as to how cool this character really is.

I e-mailed Chris and Joss last week and told them "I just wrote character X, and I was shocked by how much fun he-or-she was to write." I told Ryall I wanted to give them a spin-off. continued...

NRAMA: Who's handling the art and cover chores for the series?

BL: I've decided I'm going to tackle it. Little stick figures with teeny tiny little stakes.

Actually, myself, Mr. Ryall and Mr. Whedon all wanted one man, Franco Urru. I have already worked on 9 issues with him (between SPIKE: ASYLUM and SPIKE: SHADOW PUPPETS) and each time he surprises me.

And I can't wait to see his take on all the other ANGEL characters. So far I've only see a quick appearance of Angel, Wes and Illyria in SPIKE:SHADOW PUPPETS #2, and they weren't really Angel and company, they were all in Spike's version of them. Angel was dashing and young and high school jockish, Wesley was kinda nebbish and Illyria was...playing in the background. He's gonna blow people away and if I could I would clone him so we could do ninety different projects together at once.

As for the cover artist, he's so great a mere mortal such as myself cannot even type his name, I am not worthy (Editor’s Note: We’ll do it: Tony Harris). Just know I've been a fan of his for a really long time and the fact that he's providing the covers is such an honor.

Actually this whole experience is one big honor after another. Having Joss Whedon e-mail me and say he liked me stuff was amazing in and of itself, having him ask me to continue my favorite show of all time? That's pretty shocking. And the cover artist...it's more than I deserve.

NRAMA: Speaking at Wizard World Chicago a few years back, Whedon insisted that the ending of Angel Season 5 was not a cliffhanger; rather it was an invocation of the theme that the good fight never really ends. How much of that notion plays out in the theme of the new series?

BL: That's a huge part of the series. Angel and his friends took a stand because he thought it was the right thing to do. They fought the good fight even though they were probably going to lose, even though they were facing insurmountable odds. But that's the thing about insurmountable odds...surmounting them can be quite a bitch. The series begins to tackle the fall-out of Angel's stand, and what it cost everyone near, around, and close to him.

And there's monsters. And much saving of days.

NRAMA: Chris Ryall at the IDW panel said that this is a “12 issue-plus” series – how does that work?

BL: It's one long story told over the span of many, many months. I think it will be an ongoing, but there are scheduled breaks for the main series (only a month or two, tops) after an arc of the story concludes.

What we have planned during those breaks, however, is pretty amazing. Once this series begins, readers won't be without the characters for a while. Angel is definitely back.

NRAMA: If no one has ever seen the show or read an Angel comic before, what are they missing?

BL: What I love most about the show is it's a big epic good-vs-evil adventure, but it's told in a way that's highly personal. The action is great and mythology is staggeringly thought-out and impressive, but strip all that away and it's a very tightly constructed, pitch-perfect character story. Actually, it's five or six character stories, as each lead in ANGEL has so much going on they could carry their own series.

And on top of all that, it's funny as hell.

Also, if someone doesn't watch or read Angel, they're missing out on Lorne, I'd say. Demon lounge singer? Where else are you going to find that? Does Heroes have a demon lounge singer? No way. Does The Walking Dead have a demon lounge singer? Not hardly. Someday, hopefully. And then some crazy lady will pluck out his eye with a spoon.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=123012

“12 issue-plus” series, that's more like it. I personally hated Franco Urru's art in Asylum, but Shadow Puppets looks better, cleaner.

[The Chosen]

YAY!

I'm really REALLY excited. I have only seen a few episodes of Angel (but I have seen the series finale) and I just cannot WAIT. This will be extremely entertaining. :D

CAN'T WAIT!
- TC

[CharmedSlayer85]

I can't wait because my favorite character of the Angel series has really evolved to be Illyria and I REALLY want to find out more about her character and her evolution into the human world. I hope it's done right since Joss himself isn't really going to be writing the project and just overseeing it. We all know how somewhat badly that can go with ala Season Six of Buffy

[nerd4hire]

IDW is giving a release date of November at Comic-Con.


The new book, called "Angel: After the Fall," will start in November and "take up where the show left off, continuing the story of Angel after the great cliff-hanger ending of Season Seven," said Ryall. The book for the moment is planned as a 12 issue series, but may go longer.

[Hexaphim]

Yeah, that season 7 cliffhanger was quite a doozy...

Can't wait for this, November can't get here soon enough! :)

[BuffBuff]

ooh, im sooo excited about this comic! im glad they've decided to continue the story, that ending for NFA was just unbearable to leave it like that (absolutely fabulous ending, granted though). my curiousity, though, is who they're going to have as the main characters in it... angel, spike & illyria of course. but did gunn survive? and lorne said he didn't want angel to go looking for him after he did his job with lindsey... will lorne be back? wesley died... will they ressurrect him? you think they could bring back any past characters from buffy/angel? kate? oz? hmmm... lots of possibilities...

yeah, im very eager... november needs to be here!

[Angel's vision]

Yess at last! Now i hope Angel gets some kind of peace even if he is fighting a big batttle! And i want outside folk to leave him alone, he is good guy!
No more Angel bashing more Angel needs help!
I hope Cordy makes a celestial appearence! gah i'm excited now! a canon Angel comic! yesss!

[goldenboy]

OK, looking more official now.

IDW PUBLISHING FOR NOVEMBER

ANGEL: AFTER THE FALL #1

Plot by Joss Whedon and Brian Lynch, written by Lynch, art by Franco Urra, covers by Tony Harris and Urru.

The official continuation of the Angel series! When last we saw Angel and company, they were charging into battle against Wolfram and Hart's Senior Partners and facing down endless demons in a dark and rainy alleyway.

Now, IDW Publishing presents the story of Angel: After the Fall, as presented by Angel co-creator Joss Whedon, with a creative team hand-picked by Whedon himself, the Spike: Shadow Puppets team of Brian Lynch and Franco Urru.

Picking up where Season Five of the TV show ended, the first issue in this maxi-series looks at who lived after that climactic battle, who died, and what happened to all of Los Angeles in its wake.

32 pages, $3.99.
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0708/13/idwnov.htm


Looks like you can subscribe via the IDW site itself. Didn't see this title yet though.

[goldenboy]

The (according to whedonesque) #1 variant cover. Whatcha guys think?

http://whedonesque.org/media/Angel-COVER1b.jpg

[alexa]

I'm still confused as to if it's really canon or not. Still would read it anyway of course, and I can't see it on the IDW site yet either.
Love the variant cover, so much better then the weird hippy thing. They're really giving nothing away because it looks like Angel is the only survivor here. Did he have these weapons at the end of NFA? I remember a sword.

[Lyri]

i think i'll get the varient rather than the original...i like it better.

and, um, didn't Gunn have an axe? if Angel has it now, what does that say for hin?

[nerd4hire]

Also the dragon looks like his buddy.

[alexa]

Well the dragon looks kind of ambiguous.. He's not attacking anyone specifically, but looks pissed. I like the theory that he/she's (it could be a girl dragon!) is Angel's pal from Hell. Owh owh! and this would fit into my theory about Buffy season 8 that the floating feet in 8.01 belong to Angel (or Spike) while holding onto his floating dragon pal ...yeah prolly not, but maybe.

[goldenboy]

OK, finally an official acknowledgement at IDW. Interesting that they're using the variant for the promo.

IDW Publishing (http://idwpublishing.com/titles/angel_atf.shtml)

[Angel's vision]

I'm excited by the comic also the cover looks great!

[Gilesau]

I'm also excited by the comics...I hope we learn what happened to everybody including Lorne.

[goldenboy]

Ooh, Lynch posted an inked panel:

blog.myspace.com/brianisfairlyawesome (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=335358&blogID=307040752)

That's gotta be Connor, front and center, right? And (please please please), Gwen?

[nerd4hire]

That's what I'm thinking too Gwen, Connor, and maybe that's Harmony.

There's a publishing date listed now of November 28 2007, and it's available for pre-order HERE (http://www.tfaw.com/Profile/Angel-After-The-Fall-1___287585).

[white avenger]

...And here's an additional hope for us Spuffy folks: even if Spike stays with Angel for the whole 12 issue run, he can still move over to Buffy after that (assuming that the series actually ends after 12 issues, of course).

[alexa]

He can move over whenever as far as I know. And not just the spuffy peeps want to see Spike!
Cool about the pre-order :)
Gwen for sure... I think Connor <3 Not sure about the other.

[nerd4hire]

Did anybody else try to color that picture? I'd show you mine, but it's horrible. I saw the one girl blond though. I still think it's most likely Harmony.

[Tranquillity]

could the blonde be Nina? maybe? just guessing.

[Clem Rocks]

To me, that pics looks like Cordy, Conner and Darla.

One thing i can't help worrying about in this new season, is is it gonna go back on itself? Lyndsey, Eve and Wesley all "die" during season 5, but as Lilah's ghost stated, a Wolfram and Hart contract extends after death, so they could all be back, maybe not Lyndsay and Eve as i'm not sure that they were still employees, but certainly Wes!
And when Eve gave up being Liason to the Senior Partners, she said that being the Liason to the Senior Partners included immortality, which means Angel can't have killed Hamilton...

[goldenboy]

Westfield Comics did an interview (http://westfieldcomics.com/wow/order_main.html) with Brian Lynch. Look over on the right side of the page.

If you wanna be spoiled, there is another inked panel. Look closely, very interesting:

http://westfieldcomics.com/wow/art/feature/large/frm_int_178-04-05.jpg

[Gilesau]

I actually forgot that contracts of Wolfram and Heart extends beyond their deaths so we might see Wesley return...maybe even Lindsey? After all, he did work for them.

[Evilyn]

Wow! November seems like such a long time to wait! That new panel makes Kanga's theory all the more plausible!

[Angel's vision]

Actually Angel himself was blackmailed, so I guess his joining is a grey area, and depending on what the contract said, I doubt any of them would be 'proper employees' on those terms....I want Wes back some other way...

[goldenboy]

Did all of Team Angel sign contracts? I guess Wes forgot to read the fine print (when he went into the files and tried to burn Lilah's). Maybe they hadn't hammered out the specifics at that point. The non-compete agreements, the medical, the dental, heh.

[TabulaRasa]

I hope they make Lorne go back on his word and COME BACK! I love Lorne. Gosh I am so excited.

[white avenger]

For those who might be interested and not know yet...TFAW is now taking subscriptions for the new Angel series.

[TabulaRasa]

I subscribed through packratcomics.com I love their packaging. Anyways YAY. And thanks White Avenger just in case :)

[SARArb]

I love buffy, but honestly i prefer Angel and i'm really excited because of it! ^^ hehe

[VisionGuy]

I already pre-ordered my copy from TFAW. It would be cool if Cordelia makes an appearance but I doubt it.

[Tranquillity]

i want cordy back too! i think the PTB owe her big time - she was used and abused by them so surely she deserves a favour (other than a one shot deal re: you're welcome) I've just been watching season five again and really believe that he is lost without her.

[nerd4hire]

They've released some info, and covers for # 2, out in December.


Joss Whedon, Brian Lynch and Franco Urru continue to tell the tale of Angel after the climactic battle that ended the Angel television series. Between the array of new enemies and fallen former friends—not to mention the state of Los Angeles itself—can Angel possibly find a reason to go on? And can some familiar faces help provide that reason? Eisner-winning artist Tony Harris once again supplies a special cover, as does series artist Urru.

*2 Regular covers will be shipped in a 1 (UrrU)-to-4(Harris) ratio.

IDW Publishing (http://www.idwpublishing.com/solicit/dec07.shtml)

This, is supposed to be the official cover.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/Angel_ATF_2.jpg

This, believe it or not is the variant.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/Angel_ATF_2RI.jpg

[goldenboy]

I like this Harris cover more than his 1st one I think. Kinda getting a sense of his style for this.

Looks like Spike...made out fairly well, post-apocalypse (or whatever exactly happened).

[alexa]

What the...?
The Gold cover looks awesome, but what's up with the other. Looks like a Norman Lindsay painting

[goldenboy]

Kinda looks like something that should be painted on black velvet. Or, there would be black velvet paintings on the walls. Maybe mirrors on the ceiling...

[TabulaRasa]

I like the second one very much. First is odd.

[Ashxking]

Over at aintitcoolnews.com they have the first 5 pages of ATF AICN EXCLUSIVE!! Learn How ANGEL’s Sixth Season Begins!! -- Ain't It Cool News: The best in movie, TV, DVD, and comic book news. (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/34064)

[Gilesau]

Ugh don't like the covers at ALL....

[goldenboy]

With that preview, I'm left with the question I've always wondered about. Did Angel not know that apocalyptic damage for LA was a possibility (in taking on the Black Thorn)? Does he not feel a twinge of regret or conflict over all the (one would assume) dead Los Angelenos? Or, sucked-into-hell Angelenos. Am I being too geekish, expecting "realism"? I guess if he was thinking the Big One was coming eventually anyway...prophesied and all that. Maybe some of this will be answered.

Everything's fine. Resume your looting.

OK, that's good. Heh.

[nerd4hire]

So far I don't like it. I've never been a fan of the easy, quick-fix, phlebotnum, deux ex machina, solution to the cataclysmic cliff-hanger. So far I'd say this looks a little uninspired, but I'm willing to be sold as events unfold.

[goldenboy]

Are you referring specifically to Angel's new pal? It is kinda convenient to have a dragon on your team. You were expecting something more radical than LA in flames?

[nerd4hire]

Yeah. I heard it described on Whedonesque as "dragon ex machina".

Plus the whole setup at this point doesn't feel rational within the context of what happened before it.

Plus again, what happened to canon? If the death of that girl is so important to Angel's psychology, how come this is the first we've heard of it?

[goldenboy]

I'm dumb. Or Lynch is. I'm honestly confused. The girl in question is...Fred? Fred's death gutted the team in a unique, horrible way, but...Angel seemed to be trying to get the team back on track, move on.

Cordy "opened Angel's eyes", seems to me. She came back, held the metaphorical mirror up to Angel...plus gave him the skinny on the Black Thorn. But WR&H didn't kill her.

[nerd4hire]

Oh, OK, I get it. So you mean the girl being murdered by demons in the comic is a metaphor for Fred. I can see that, but I'm not sure it works.

Oh wait, I just read it again, and realized I'm all mixed up on the timeline. We still haven't found out exactly how Angel gets out of the Alley. That girl is one of the looters. I thought she was a flashback. Ignore me. I'll wait for the whole thing now, before I jump to any more conclusions.

[BuffBuff]

IS the girl that's being mentioned cordy or fred?? at first i thought it was cordelia... but then i read through the preview pages again and it said "they [wolfram & hart] kiled her", and it was the PTB that took cordy away wasn't it, and W&H that killed fred and brought about illyria... so... hmmm.

im still kinda unsure about this comic. i mean, im gonna read it... that's not even a question... but they seem to skip over what happened in the alley during "NFA"-- like how did angel & crew get out of it? the obvious question which will be answered... who lived/died? when exactly did he discover the dragon was fighting with him? what happened during those months that have been skipped over? -- and i think it's important that we get some kind of infomation about that

[Tranquillity]

like the buffy book, they are not going to give us any answers up front. they want to get us invested in the new story before filling the gaps. i think it looks pretty good - though i'm not sure i like Spike with that bevvy of beauties on #2 cover. what is our boy up to? I took "the girl" that inspired Angel to mean Cordelia. because it was for her (and connor) that he took the deal with w&h and it was her that gave him the vision to get him out. Did W&H kill cordy? perhaps Angel has found out some new information or maybe he just blames them because she died in their medical care.

[alexa]

I assumed Fred, because they were indirectly responsible for Fred's death... and Angel mentions her death as being something which made him want to make mean something... that's from his speech in Power Play

Angel: Then, when Fred died, I wasn't gonna let that be another random horrible event in another random horrible world. So I decided to use it, to make her death matter.

Anyways, I think it's meant to remind us of his monologue in City Of... At least it does for me.

Los Angeles. You see it at night and it shines. Like a beacon. People are drawn to it. People and other things. They come for all sorts of reasons. My reason? No surprise there. It started with a girl.

I miss this show.

[Evilyn]

Just a quick question, when did Angel start refering to himself as a "man"? I thought he would correct people in stating that he wasn't a "man" when called one.

[goldenboy]

OK, you convinced me Kanga. He's talking Fred. It was the "opened my eyes" remark that threw me.

As far as the "I'm only one man" crack...I guess you could call it a figure of speech. Seems like he was mostly telling baddies "I'm not exactly a man" or whatever when he was trying to to scare them. Then he'd go all vamp face. And Cordy and Kate were always reminding him he's not a man.

[Clem Rocks]

I just read that Brian Lynch confirmed that the "girl" is Fred over at Whedonesque

[TabulaRasa]

When I first told packrat that I wanted to pre-order angel regular and variant covers I didn't much think it through. I think I am going to take it by ear on which cover I like best. I don't think (like I do with Buffy) that I am going to get a reg and variant for Angel. I am still excited about it tho.

[goldenboy]

The thing about Urru's covers so far—they're not very cover-like. They're very complex, busy, and not clever or conceptual (like Jeanty at least attempts to be with his Buffy covers). I do like Tony Harris, in general...still waiting on him to knock one out of the park.

[goldenboy]

Cover #3, by Andrew Robinson

http://images.tfaw.com/tfaw/newsletter/nl347/Angel3_Robinson.jpg




Cover #3, Franco Urru

http://images.tfaw.com/tfaw/newsletter/nl347/Angel3_Urru.jpg


I'm reading that Andrew Robinson is taking over cover duties from Tony Harris as of #3.

[nerd4hire]

Nothing world shattering, but there's some new info.

The series kicks off in November with a special 27-page story and a preview of a new Brian Lynch zombie comic, and will be shipped monthly thereafter. Along the way, IDW will also release some one-shot stories that tie in to the larger storyline. The first of these will be the April 2008 release Angel: First Night, which details the events at the end of Season Five's final day as they affected some lesser-seen characters from the show.

Joss Whedon's Angel Rises at IDW Publishing - Silver Bullet Comics - comics news, comic book news, comics information (http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/news/119189144569434.htm)

[goldenboy]

Lesser-seen. Gwen? Eve, maybe. Nina. It would be cool if they worked Anne in there.

Angel: After the Fall (Fractal Matter review) (http://fractalmatter.com/main/?p=745)

I'm just gonna try to stay zen about Mr. telepathic fish guy. So be it.

[Karl]

Wow, this comic book series is really happening. From the covers we already know that Spike & Illyria are back (and Angel ofcourse):), can't wait for this.

[TabulaRasa]

Even tho Lorne is gone, said he was done...do you think he will be seen in season 6? I really hope so. I love Lorne.

[alexa]

I just had a thought after reading a bit of the spoilery review, in relation to Wesley somehow being in After the Fall ..I hope

it was an idea that came to me when I did this fan art piece before in which I imagined Wesley trapped in purgatory.. but I wondered that if LA had been sucked into hell, then maybe Wesley will be there. He's not a bad man, but he did betray (re-season 3 Dantes inferno thingy) and kill, even though it was 'just'. Anyways I just think that would be awesome... damn I need to write to Brian Lynch :p

[white avenger]

With that preview, I'm left with the question I've always wondered about. Did Angel not know that apocalyptic damage for LA was a possibility (in taking on the Black Thorn)? Does he not feel a twinge of regret or conflict over all the (one would assume) dead Los Angelenos? Or, sucked-into-hell Angelenos. Am I being too geekish, expecting "realism"? I guess if he was thinking the Big One was coming eventually anyway...prophesied and all that. Maybe some of this will be answered.


This is a perfect example of one of Angel's most consistent character flaws: He believes that he knows "what's for the best" for everybody, and acts on that so called "knowledge" regardless of, or more accurately ignorant of, the consequences. If he has plunged LA into an apocalyptic hell, then he, and he alone, is responsible for the loss of life and property destruction that results. It makes no difference whatsoever that or if the Senior Partners were planning the same or similar thing in the future, ANGEL caused it NOW for the sake of what he himself described as little more than a futile gesture. His actions are no more called for nor thought out than it would have been for a passenger aboard the "Titanic" blowing a hole in the side of the ship 24 hours before it hit the iceberg "because he knew it was coming anyway."

No matter how many people Angelus tortured and killed during his existance, Angel, with one stupid immature gesture, has managet to be responsible for many, many more.

That said, I find it hard to believe that all that much quite obviously Could be as completely ignored as this seems to be over in Scotland and Slayer Central. Even if Angel is no longer considered one of the good guys, fighting an apocalypse in SLAYER business of the highest nature, and would have as many of that eighteen hundred plus Slayer force present in the world headed that way immediately if not having already been set up and waiting vie magical forewarning of some sort. (I know, they may be there and just not mentioned yet, but still,,,)

[alexa]

I'll prolly respond better to this later. But the decision to act now, wasn't his choice alone, it was also Spike, Gunn, Wesley and Lorne's. He said he couldn't do it without them and wouldn't have, so I just don't think it's fair to lay all the blame on him. Although knowing Angel, he wouldn't mind because he bares every other burden. And life also teaches us to lay the blame where it deserves to lie (if you must lay blame), and Angel would never pick to send LA into hell, that responsibility lies with the demon hordes who made it happen in retaliation. Sometimes hard decisions have to be made and you need to be brave enough like Angel and Wes/Spike etc to make them.

[white avenger]

I'll prolly respond better to this later. But the decision to act now, wasn't his choice alone, it was also Spike, Gunn, Wesley and Lorne's.


The "decision" had been made before Angel ever asked his people to volunteer. He knew that Wes was just short of suicidal, he knew that Gunn wasn't much better, beaten down by guilt over what had happened to Fred. Lorne was a follower, someone who had been talked into and manipulated into everything that Angel wanted him to do since they had met. Spike? Well, he wasn't going to let Angel go off and get all of the glory. He was still trying to beat his grandsire out of the Shanshu, and besides, when had he ever passed up ANY kind of fight, odds be damned (Okay, that once in Sunnydale when he ran away from D'Hoffran's assassin, but he wasn't wearing his coat then, so it doesn't count)?

So, yes, in a way, the team "supported" Angel's actions, but if he'd never made the proposal, if he had said something like, "The Senior Partners are planning something really big according to Lindsey, so I think we need to be martialing our forces so that we can stand at least a ghost of a chance of stopping them," they would have agreed to that just as quickly. and the results would have been at the very least a little more time to gather a bigger force of fighters. There were Gunn's old team of demon fighters, Eve, and probably any number of others whom he could call for help, not the least of which would be Faith and her team of Slayers (Yes, Giles didn't trust Angel any more, but Faith would, and with the resources available to Angel, finding and recruiting her would have been quite easy).

Angel said at the first that he was asking his people to plan on not living through what was to come, but he never said, "If we do this, it will start a war that will devastate at least this city and cause the death of probably thousands of innocent men, women, and children, all of which can be reduced if not averted completely if we wait just a few days and recruit some more fifgters." Would Wes, Gunn, Lorne, or even Spike have said, "No, lets do it right now so more people can die."?

Why is Angel so reckless now with all of those innocent lives when he used the same logic NOT to restore Fred and return Illyria to the Deeper Well? Quite simply because that was the right decision to make. If it was the right decision then, it should have been the right decision when taking on Wolfram and Hart. Wait a few days, gather a stronger fighting force, then initiate the preemptive strike, when there is a better chance of containing the results. Willow isn't the only witch/wizard/shaman in the world powerful enough to be of help in this situation.

Bottom line: this was just Angel trying to run the show, and to hell with the circumstances. Maybe he thought that this would somehow gain the shanshu for himself (he didn't sigh off on anything. "Angel" is not a legal signature. His real name is Liam something or other, as most of us know, just as Spike isn't William's legal signature). This whole thing was nothing but a glory play, and to call it anything else is pure fantasy.

[Karl]

Ugh! I read the preview pages (from AICN) & I think it totally sucks.

***SPOILERS***



The senior partners of Wolfram & Hart sent LA to hell? Please, this idea is stupid. Angel riding the dragon? C'mon. Anyway, it all seems too surreal, just because you CAN do crazy things in the comics doesn't mean you HAVE to (Buffy season 8 has some crazy stuff aswell, but somehow it's still believable).
The last episode of Angel felt epic because you knew Angel & Co were all going down in the small alley. But then again, I thought that they could escape, somehow. Move to another city, something like that. But now it seems they doomed the whole population of LA. I will not accept this as canon. Out of curiosity I'll DL these but won't buy any of them, that's for sure. The setting sucks!!!

[goldenboy]

Far out fantasy isn't unprecedented for Angel though, right? Pylea, that bug-like dimension that worshipped Jasmine, etc. I'm with ya, though. I like the earthbound, mundane setting stories the best. It seems a little too epic, LOTR-ish for my taste.

Thing is, Joss has said that this is roughly where Season 6 was going, had it happened. We'll never know I guess...

[Angel's vision]

White Advenger I'm picking up alot of anger towards Angel as a charactor, I know he can be a dick sometimes s2 was proof, but I take into concideration that TPTB sent him a vision without revealing any of the thorns faces, which makes it pretty difficult to attack them because he would not know who to attack,(That's why he went under cover) thats what the plan was to stop them, put a spoke in the wheels, as he put it, the consequenses of that was retaliation, yes Innocent lives would be lost, BUT if he didn't stop the thorn it would happen anyway, even if he got an army together how many armies of W&H would out number them? If you remember they were faced with over 30,000 as Gunn guessed, and how many were willing to help his side? NO-ONE. That's the impression Joss gave us.


So what were TPTB playing at sending him this vision then? Giving him little to go on, and yes W&H needed to be stopped, but there were consequences to that, but he made a stand anyway.

Even if he did have a few hundred or so at his side or thousands W&H would retaliate anyway and lives would be lost regardless.
I think he was caught between a rock and a hard place.
No matter what he did there would still be the same outcome.

I wonder also if they'd just taken Fred back to the deeper well with the toomb and then performed a spell to send Illyria back, it would of worked?
I guess telling it like it was hopeless was a convenient plot device to get Illyria into the series.


ETA:
I'm not sure about LA being in hell either...

[nerd4hire]

Friendly reminder. If it says Spoilers in the title you can feel free to post them openly in the thread.

But, yeah I'm not sure I'm going to love this Angel series either. I was with Buffy 8 though. I'm just hoping they'll surprise me here.

[Karl]

Far out fantasy isn't unprecedented for Angel though, right? Pylea, that bug-like dimension that worshipped Jasmine, etc. I'm with ya, though. I like the earthbound, mundane setting stories the best. It seems a little too epic, LOTR-ish for my taste.

Thing is, Joss has said that this is roughly where Season 6 was going, had it happened. We'll never know I guess...

'Roughly' may refer to the characters, but I'm quite sure that LA wouldn't have gone to hell lol (and if WB hadn't cancelled Angel, they wouldn't have killed off Wesley in the season finale). Also, I remember some talk about seperating Fred & Illyria. I wonder if they're going to do this in the comics and how are they going to resurrect Fred's soul if it was completely destroyed. That actually IS something I have been waiting for. Didn't Joss talk about it once?

[goldenboy]

To Hell, Perhaps not. But I'd always heard 6 would be "post-apocalyptic" in some way. Radically different from the other seasons. I think maybe those were David Fury's comments.

I think Lynch may have hinted at Wesley's fate in a recent interview. I'm afraid to read any more spoilers, but they're out there. Definitely curious about Fred too.

[Karl]

I've been wondering about something. I read that the WB cancelled Angel February 24, 2004, one day before 5x15 'A Hole in the World' aired. So, how many episodes were finished by this date? Then it could be possible to pinpoint when the writers started changing things because of the cancellation. Still, in the end we will never know how things would have turned out if Angel wasn't cancelled. For all we know, the final fight in the alley & Angel killing off the members of the Black Thorne may have never come to pass (not in season 5 at least).

[alexa]

They found out it was cancelled while filming Underneath. Remember them talking about it in the audio commentary.
Got to say I'm also not looking forward to Angel like I was Buffy.. would be if it had Joss writing, or any of the other shows writers. I'll be reading it for sure, but actually it kinda opens up my old wound of why there is no season six or filmed continuation at all.
That aside I think LA in hell is an awesome idea because it's a way of having Wesley around, I hope.

[Allycat]

I can't believe everyone is so negative about Los Angeles in Hell. I think it's a wonderful idea. I imagine it will be something like the sun blotted out in Season 4.

I wonder how the world will react. Media, government, and general population have been able to cover up most supernatural occurances, but LA being sucked into hell and (presumably) returning. That's gotta bring up some questions. Also, will there be a crater where LA used to be?

[alexa]

Here's another review if it hasn't been posted yet. New page. Got to say I'm not loving the style so far :(
Comic Pants Angel: After the Fall #1 of 6 (http://comicpants.com/?p=2280)

http://comicpants.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/angelinterior2.jpg

[Gilesau]

Even tho Lorne is gone, said he was done...do you think he will be seen in season 6? I really hope so. I love Lorne.

I love him too...I really hope so. There's been a lot of speculation about what happened to him...committing suicide was one of them. He really hit rock bottom during that episode.

[Angel's vision]

white avenger agrees: I'll tell you a secret, but you have to promise not to tell anybody. I really like Angel, as long as he stays away from Buffy. But I also love a good argument, and jumping on Ol' Broody always seems to get one started. Now, remember, that's just our (little secret)

LOL I really like Angel as long as he stays away from Buffy too! ( I don't think she should come within a hairs width of him)


I admire your cunning....

That recent incerpt (Comic page)looks very intreging....But still hope that LA is soon freed from it's state!

[Allycat]

I can SO hear Angel saying those lines in the preview kanga posted.

[goldenboy]

It is sounding pretty good. The Joss factor, I'm hoping.

The art looks a little better than Asylum. I liked Urru's Shadow Puppets work cos it was colorful. But I guess this makes sense for the setting. All drab and apocalypty...

[Tranquillity]

I don't know if this has been posted - a newish Brian Lynch interview HERE (http://www.normantranscript.com/statenews/cnhinsall_story_284234504.html). it has some interesting stuff about Angel: after the Fall.

ooh, i just found on the IDW forum that the Interview illicited this response from Brian after a few of their members were upset:

That was a really nice interview, but some of it was wrong. I think maybe sarcasm doesn't translate. For instance, Spike doesn't just retire. That would be boring. I feel bad, because the last thing I want is for readers to think Spike is going to go fishing every day and kick back with a ton of hot ladies. His story is sooooooooo much deeper than that.

Also, some of the characters that they say are back, are not back. I don't want to get anyone disappointed or excited for the wrong reason.

EDIT: I feel really bad about people thinking that's what I'm doing with Spike. Oh dear, no. So I will slightly spoil his story just so you know it's in a direction that might be better than "Spike's Spring Break Vacation".

Spike has died for the side of good once before. Spike fought the good fight. Spike seems to be taking time off from the adventures and fighting. Spike is not doing that. Spike is full of surprises. Readers should trust me on this one, I'm gonna not suddenly do a bad Spike story.

Back to Angel: it seems like the interviews don't care about Angel as much as the supporting characters, mostly because they KNOW Angel's back (he's totally in the title), but Angel's story is pretty stunning and a great series of events.

And finally, Wesley and the "one-shot" comment. Read it again, the guy says using the term "Hell-A" is a one-shot thing because it's so silly. Not Wesley. That said, I never said Wesley was in it or not.

[goldenboy]

Another Lynch Q&A, via whedonesque, from CBR
(http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12328)

It's coming out on Nov 21st now? Wiki says 28th...maybe that's from TFAW.

[Lyri]

sorry if this has already been posted, feel free to delete, but according to Wikipedia, Brian Lynch has confirmed which characters will be appearing in After The Fall:

Angel
Spike
Illyria
Charles Gunn
Connor
Harmony Kendall
Gwen Raiden
Lorne

Spike, Connor, Gunn and Gwen...that's made me happy! lol

[Gilesau]

sorry if this has already been posted, feel free to delete, but according to Wikipedia, Brian Lynch has confirmed which characters will be appearing in After The Fall:

Angel
Spike
Illyria
Charles Gunn
Connor
Harmony Kendall
Gwen Raiden
Lorne

Spike, Connor, Gunn and Gwen...that's made me happy! lol

Lorne's going to appear! Yes! :coolman:

[nerd4hire]

Something I'm wondering about...

With the writer's strike will Joss find himself with some extra time, and perhaps get more involved.

[alexa]

He's sick according to whedonesque.com Making a few posts over there. I'd also love if he could find some time to consult a little more on the Angel comics.. but the guy needs a break, so many projects. Or a better idea, get me to consult while Joss rests up! ;) Sounds like they'd be busy on the picket lines though? Do they have to be there all day? I read he met up with David Fury and other Buffy writers, I wish my favourite ones would sign up for Dollhouse. I'm abig fan of David Fury, Goodard, Espensen, Petrie, Greenwalt, Deknight... hmm yeah pretty much all of them.

[Allycat]

I was wondering, do we know anything about the story at all? I mean we know that LA is sucked into hell. Angel allies himself with the Dragon. Spike decides to enjoy himself. And Illyria and Angel are gonna have a smack-down. Other than that, there's very little info out there, or did I miss something? It seems to me that there are far less spoilers for the comics then there were for the shows

[nerd4hire]

This is kind of cute. Somebody made a youtube video for Angel: After the Fall. Brian Lynch saw it and linked to it from his MySpace page. (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=335358&blogID=328291908)

Fan-made, and awesome. Probably will be changed a bit after whomever did reads the first issue, but man, is it cool.

The video is here -

YouTube - Angel: After the Fall / Season 6 Credits (http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=-I5NmhoHlHk&locale=en_IE&persist_locale=1)

[Gilesau]

It was a cool video...thanks for that.

[Allycat]

ANGEL: AFTER THE FALL #4

Written by Joss Whedon and Brian Lynch, art by Franco Urru, covers by Andrew Robinson and Urru.

As the first chapter in this epic tale reaches its penultimate point, Angel issues a challenge to someone (a lot of someones, actually) that he can't possibly win. Meanwhile, Spike considers changing sides as this hellish new status quo presents some opportunities he can't pass up. And IDW promises a shock ending more explosive than even those of the first three issues.

32 pages, $3.99.

source: Comics Continuum (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0711/26/idwfeb.htm)

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0711/26/angel4.jpg

[tommy]

Highlights:

Illyria's time-shifting powers will be address in a future issue.

The sun and moon both being out puts Nina "in a state hovering between human and werewolf, so she's human but stronger, sharper, and more primal."

Wesley's look is punishment. "He's moved on, but they won't let him. Also, he's the last official representative of Wolfram & Hart, he has to look the part."

The full thing. (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=335358&blogID=332732836) <- linky

[TabulaRasa]

I am so happy Gwen is around. I love her. LOVE. I have not gotten my comic yet tho cause I asked my comic shop to ship it at the beginning of every month when they ship Buffy to me. So I have to wait a couple of extra weeks to read it. I will be back to chat about it when I get to read it.

[tommy]

Preview Pages (http://www.idwpublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=40731#40731)

Enough with the fish already.

[Keanoite]

Preview Pages (http://www.idwpublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=40731#40731)

Enough with the fish already.

wasn't the talking hamburger enough!! I can't believe Joss approved this fish thing...its so not ANGEL

[tommy]

lol, I forgot about the talking hamburger.

[tommy]

There's going to be a whole tv movie about the fish. It's canon now - you cannot escape.

[Keanoite]

we could petition for it to be deep fried or something!! Fish and the Joss verse don't work! remember what Angelus did to Willow's gold fish? and then there was that stupid shark thing in season 6!

[tommy]

Shark thing? Oh, ha ha. Didn't it wear a suit? Said something about kittens.

Yeah, I suppose that is weird that there's a shark guy walking around at night.

The series started like the real world, except with vampires and some demons that a handful of people knew about.

[VisionGuy]

The series started like the real world, except with vampires and some demons that a handful of people knew about.

Believe me, I'm not defending the fish but LA did get sucked into hell so it makes sense there would be some bizarre looking demons down there.

[Keanoite]

yeah now its fishtastic!!!!!!!!!

[tommy]

I'll probably end up loving the fish. There must be a good reason to keep it around.

What are the chances it will hook up with Gwen?

[Keanoite]

what were the chances of connor hooking up with cordy...it could happen!

[Kiss The Librarian]

The comic is out already right???

I need to know what happened to Wesley, I have read stuff but I can't figure it out.
Is he evil or at least forced to be evil??

[tommy]

It's out. Not enough information about Wesley yet.


You reminded me of this:
Buffy (to Giles, about Wesley): Is he evil?
Wesley (perplexed): Evil?
Buffy: The last one was evil.
Wesley: Oh, yes. Gwendolyn Post. We all heard. No. Mr. Giles has checked my credentials rather thoroughly and phoned the Council, but I'm glad to see you're on the ball as well. A good Slayer is a cautious Slayer.
Buffy (to Giles): Is he evil?

[alexa]

Has this been posted somewhere yet?
IDW Publishing Forums :: View topic - New Angel art! (http://www.idwpublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=40731#40731)

Not really a preview for 2.. but sort of.

[Allycat]

Is that thing on the bed, Betta George? And that second picture looks like Angel before he kills Drogyn.

[Allycat]

Another cover for Issue 4. This one is by Andrew Robinson:

http://www.idwpublishing.com/solicit/feb08/Angel_atf_4.jpg

Just for the record, that's Wesley right, not Angel?

[Keanoite]

Pretty sure it's Angel, look at the date April 22 1979...Wesley would have been pretty young

[Allycat]

I know, but I think it could be a date that's somehow relevant to Wesley's childhood. Maybe it's his DOB. Although I guess that would make him terribly young.

[tommy]

http://www.idwpublishing.com/solicit/feb08/Angel_atf_4.jpgI thought it was Angel. Looking a bit slim there.

[Keanoite]

I think it's Angel, the face and the hair are nothing like Wes

[Allycat]

Sorry about the confusion, I just checked the IDW Forums and they confirm that it's Angel... although it appears I wasn't the only one in doubt.

[Keanoite]

Does this mean more Manilow?

[TabulaRasa]

Another cover for Issue 4. This one is by Andrew Robinson:

http://www.idwpublishing.com/solicit/feb08/Angel_atf_4.jpg

Just for the record, that's Wesley right, not Angel?

Blah! I really hate the cover art. Maybe I am just too used to the wonderful drawings we get for Buffy. I have no clue about Wes yet but I can't wait to find more out.

[Lyri]

the cover art's been pretty on the blah side so far, but i love the cover for issue #2. if i get landed with the alternate cover, i'm gonna be p****d!

Angel After The Fall #2 at TFAW.com (http://www.tfaw.com/Comics/Pre-Orders/Profile/Angel-After-The-Fall-2___295082?pagemode=popup&from=profile)

[tommy]

Blah! I really hate the cover art. Maybe I am just too used to the wonderful drawings we get for Buffy. I have no clue about Wes yet but I can't wait to find more out.Yeah, the Buffy covers are much nicer. There are some good Angel ones but the many variants are hit and miss.

[VisionGuy]

the cover art's been pretty on the blah side so far, but i love the cover for issue #2. if i get landed with the alternate cover, i'm gonna be p****d!

Angel After The Fall #2 at TFAW.com (http://www.tfaw.com/Comics/Pre-Orders/Profile/Angel-After-The-Fall-2___295082?pagemode=popup&from=profile)

I agree the covers aren't all that great. I hope I don't get any of the variants though cuz they suck even more in my opinion. Except for After the Fall#1. I remember when I got the variant for No Future For You Part 1, I was really upset cuz I really wanted the Jo Chen Faith cover. If I get the crappy avengers variant for Part 4, instead of naked flamey Faith, I'll be devastated. LOL

[TabulaRasa]

I am picking and choosing my covers for Angel because I don't like them all. So I atleast want the choice of which one I like best to come to my mail box. Like I mentioned for the first issue I wanted the variant, second regular. Still have to see both of #3 before I email my comic shop.
When Faith's issue #6 came out I made sure I bought 3 copies. 2 of the regular and 1 variant because I knew it was going to be popular. It's not my favorite cover tho...anyways back to Angel. I hope there is one cover that just blows me away. Has not happened yet tho.

[Allycat]

Though I agree that the Buffy covers have been better than Angel covers so far, I don't think they're quite that bad. Comparing the covers is a bit unfair because they use very different visual styles.

PS: Brian Lynch has said that Urru's variant to Issue 5 is going to blow our minds like they've never been blown before.

[TabulaRasa]

Sorry Ally, I dunno what happened, cut off part of the rep when posting...I was saying let's hope that issue 5 does blow our minds cause we could really use it right now.

[tommy]

I actually quite like Urru's art. He did a good variant cover for the first issue.

I think on Buffy there's a bigger divide between the variants and the Jo Chen paintings. With issue 10 there is anyway - the Will/Buff flying/falling regular cover is more desirable.

[alexa]

I thought it might have been Wesley as well Ally, so you're not alone. I love the idea of Wesley flashbacks, he's such an awesome character.
Don't know what Angel was thinking wearing that outfit... suppose if it was the 70s.
I ordered 2 comics from tfaw for issue2 cause I don't want to get landed with the orgy one :p (But I love both Jeanty's cover for 9 and the flamey Faith!)

[Allycat]

I really don't get why everyone prefers the Harris cover over the Urru one. I think they're both about as good. If I get the regular cover, I might be persuaded to trade it with someone for the variant, since some ppl here hate it so much ;) But so help me god if I get the Gunn-cover for issue 4 :(

[TabulaRasa]

I really don't get why everyone prefers the Harris cover over the Urru one. I think they're both about as good. If I get the regular cover, I might be persuaded to trade it with someone for the variant, since some ppl here hate it so much ;) But so help me god if I get the Gunn-cover for issue 4 :(

I hate the Gunn cover, does anyone know what the variant looks like? I need to tell my comic shop to ship it to me if it's better.

[Allycat]

The Gunn cover is the variant. The one with Angel being carried by "angels" ??? is the regular. Or actually, IDW refers to them both as regular covers, but the Urru one as cover B and the other one as cover A.

On the date thing. I think it has something to do with Gunn. I know he was one-year old then, but I think it might have something to do the airdate of "Double or Nothing" and him selling his soul and all that.

[TabulaRasa]

I didn't see the regular cover for #4 and on tfaw for #3? Is that the variant or regular?

[nerd4hire]

There's a 4 page preview up for # 2 HERE (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0712/13/firsts.htm)

Hey, can I spoil you on the spoiler? There's this cute thing I think I thought. There's a bit where Angel is talking about how he's punched Connor's ticket to Hell twice. It makes me think of that part in a South Park episode where Sadaam Hussein gets killed in Hell, and later he appears at Satan's doorstep. Satan says "Sadaam, I thought I killed you?" Sadaam answers "So where I was going to go? Detroit?"

So if these Angel characters get killed in Hell, where do they go?

[Clem Rocks]

There's a 4 page preview up for # 2 HERE (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0712/13/firsts.htm)

Hey, can I spoil you on the spoiler? There's this cute thing I think I thought. There's a bit where Angel is talking about how he's punched Connor's ticket to Hell twice. It makes me think of that part in a South Park episode where Sadaam Hussein gets killed in Hell, and later he appears at Satan's doorstep. Satan says "Sadaam, I thought I killed you?" Sadaam answers "So where I was going to go? Detroit?"

So if these Angel characters get killed in Hell, where do they go?


An even more hellish hell dimension?

As Spike once put it "You got your fire hell, your ice hell......fire hell"

Each one is probably worse than the last, and there have been many hells in Buffy and Angel. There was the one where Buffy sent Angel in season 2, Glorificus's hell, Plyea which was described as a hell dimension i believe, there was Wolfram and Hart's holding dimension but i believe i remember Gunn saying "It's not hell, it's a Wolfram and Hart holding dimension", Qortoth was called "the darkest of the dark realms" which to me sounds like a hell and i believe that's what Angel is talking about in that page, LA which has reportedly been sent to hell, and then ofcourse there's whatever hell is beneath the Hellmouthes

[alexa]

Looks cool so far.
Feel bad for Wesley. What's in the reflection of his glasses?
I don't think Connor is pissed at Angel.. hadn't crossed my mind actually, until someone else brought it up. They better not kill Connor off.
And yeah, it seemed like Angel just thought Nina was crazy and wanted to get out of there ASAP. Hard to tell for sure though. I guess she was ok in season 5.. a little dull. (But Nina with a boob job is still annoyingly distracting)
Looking forward to some Spike!

I thought of the death thing too N4h.. Helps when there are many hell dimensions I guess.

[Allycat]

About dying in hell... I would think that in the case of some people, heaven might be an option? Although on second thought, I don't know if any of our heroes have earned their ticket yet.

[Keanoite]

Here's a spoiler for the issue five cover Here (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0712/19/idwmarch.htm)

Although the art work isn't great (again) the cover is really exciting! Can't wait for it.

[goldenboy]

I'd say that's the best Robinson cover, so far. His painting style's kind of crude, but that's a great composition. Great punchy red.

[white avenger]

9everybody please forgive me if I seem to not be completely conversant in this thread, but my computer is being repaired, so I only have a few minutes to do this during lunch at work. Maybe you have already hashed this out, but...)

Am I the only one who felt robbed by the way Issue 1 started? I mean, we were told the story would pick up in the alley just when "Not Fade Away" ended, and instead we see Angel boing his "rescue and brood" thing, finally beginning to see the consequences of his "taking a stand," and then we get a few flashbacks to how the dragon bailed what was left of his crew out by coming over to the side of light, goodness, and Manilow music, but no explanation of WHY the dragon did what it did, except that it apparantly had some kind of epiphony at just the critical moment. We get dropped down in the middle of the week after or something, left to wonder how, when, and why all of this previous action took place. Now, I don't mind a flashback now ant then, but there should have been an entire arc, at least two or three issues or more, before Issue 1 ever took place. Are we going to have an entire TPB of "Issues Minus Four, Minus Three, Minus Two, and Minus One" just to catch us up to what Issue 1 was supposed to be?

Or am I the only one who feels this way?

[goldenboy]

I get where you're coming from WA, but to me it would seem weird, from a narrative point of view. It's just more interesting—after all this time—if they simply allude to that stuff. Unpack all those things slowly, bits and pieces.

Had you caught this Lynch interview?

As for the fateful battle to which the final moments of "Angel" Season 5 were building, Lynch confirmed that fans will get the opportunity to see Angel, Spike, Gunn and Illyria get down and dirty in the alley, but not for the first few issues. "I actually thought the first issue was going to be the fight, because when Joss told me he wanted me to do the series, I was like, 'Oh, my God, I get to write that battle that I always wanted to see.'" However, Whedon advised the writer that more interesting than the battle itself is the effect it has on the characters. "And he's right, because it would have just been 22 pages of swords and people dying, whereas it's much cooler to see people you care about in peril and distraught."

That said, the events of the alley battle will be chronicled in a one-shot entitled "First Night," tentatively scheduled for release after "Angel: After the Fall" #5. In addition to the core cast, "First Night" also focuses on characters who don't factor into the main thrust of "Angel: After the Fall" itself. And though the specifics of the battle will remain a mystery for a time, Lynch assured CBR News that readers will know the fate of all four characters who were directly involved in the conflict by the end of issue #2.
Comic Book Resources - CBR News: Brian Lynch talks "Angel: After the Fall" (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12328)

[white avenger]

[QUOTE=goldenboy;466411]I get where you're coming from WA, but to me it would seem weird, from a narrative point of view. It's just more interesting—after all this time—if they simply allude to that stuff. Unpack all those things slowly, bits and pieces.


I'm sure I'll get over it eventually, but I was just so looking forward to seeing three super powered warriors kick the s**t out of Wolfram and Hart's demon army. Then, when the time comes, not only do I NOT see that, but I get told that the dern dragon incinerated said army before our super powered warriors could even break a decent sweat (do vampires and hell gods sweat?).

Remember, folks, you're seeing the rants of an old man, here. I grew up on tv reruns of the old Flash Gordon serials. Cliffhangers are supposed to be cleared up at the beginning of the next episode, not sometime several chapters later. As I said, I'll get over it.

In the meantime, Merry Christmas, and God bless us, every one!!!

[goldenboy]

#5 Cover

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview2.php?image=litg/2007/1224/AngelAtF_5_Franco_Paolo_rgb.jpg

Urru does more recognizable men than women for whatever reason. But, is that Wesley grimacing to Gunn's right? Who's the dude in the shades and suit?

[Black Eye Guy]

I think he is so bad! Look at spike then back at the dude with the shades, that’s just spike with black hair (I don't think it is spike, just they are drawn exactly the same) and he really can't draw women, Gwen looks bad, Illyria worse and Nina was hit, repeatedly, with an ugly shovel.

[goldenboy]

I think he is so bad! Look at spike then back at the dude with the shades, that’s just spike with black hair (I don't think it is spike, just they are drawn exactly the same) and he really can't draw women, Gwen looks bad, Illyria worse and Nina was hit, repeatedly, with an ugly shovel.
Yeah, agreed. How in any way does that Illyria do justice to Amy Acker? Eesh.

[Allycat]

I can't believe what I'm hearing. This is definitely Urru's best cover to date. I wonder who the angry fellow is.

[Tranquillity]

i love the cover - but who is the guy at the back, beside Gunn? Man, they all look angry!

[Clem Rocks]

i love the cover - but who is the guy at the back, beside Gunn? Man, they all look angry!

It kinda looks a little like Lindsey =D

and i just realised Lorne's on the cover! =D

[Keanoite]

That guy beside Gunn looks like Xander!!!...the art is really bellow par in my opinion

Edit:

It's not Wesley, it's not Giles, but it is someone we've seen before on one of the shows. Hmmmmmm!
Brian Lynch | December 25, 02:11 CET

Just saw this on Whedonesque...It's Brian Lynch's teaser about who the guy beside Gunn is...makes me think it is someone from Buffy and he really loks like Xander...minus an eye patch!

[Clem Rocks]

That guy beside Gunn looks like Xander!!!...the art is really bellow par in my opinion

Edit:



Just saw this on Whedonesque...It's Brian Lynch's teaser about who the guy beside Gunn is...makes me think it is someone from Buffy and he really loks like Xander...minus an eye patch!

Andrew maybe? It kinda looks like him....a lil....if he were older...

[goldenboy]

To me, 'grimacing angry man' looks more like Giles than anyone. Wonder if Ethan Rayne was in LA at the time, somehow.

[Tranquillity]

According to Brian Lynch the cover is a homage to Justice League #1 (published 1987)

here is a link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_League) to picture at Wiki (scroll down a bit to view the cover illustration)

poster at IDW forums says that:

Angel is in place of Green Lantern, Guy Gardner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Gardner_%28comics%29).

Spike is in place of Captain Marvel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Marvel_%28DC_Comics%29)

Illyria is in place of Dr. Fate. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Fate)

Wes is in place of The Blue Beetle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Beetle_%28Ted_Kord%29).

Connor is in place of Batman. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman)

Lorne is in place of The Martian Manhunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_Manhunter).

Nina is in place of Black Canary. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Canary)

Gunn is in place of Mr. Miracle. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Miracle)

Gwen is in place of the female Dr. Light. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Light_%28DC_Comics_superheroine%29)

Mystery Guy is in place of Oberon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(comics)).

Edit:

link here (http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/tranquillity_2007/?action=view&current=JLAngelcover3.jpg)to see the covers side by side:

[Allycat]

Somebody on Brian's MySpace Blog suggested that it was the Groosalugg. I think he might be right.

[Allycat]

Just read a little bit of info on First Night, that I thought I'd share.

ANGEL

NRAMA: Around the time that it was announced that the Angel TV series would be ending, you were of two minds about it. Being an Angel "convert/geek/fan," you would have liked to see the show go on "pretty much forever but I would also like to see it avoid what befell Buffy in Season 7." So, did you like the fifth season and series finale?

JB: One of the best last episodes ever. And the rest of the season was pretty good, too. No complaints.

NRAMA: How are you liking Season 6 in comic book form so far?

JB: Again, have not seen it.

NRAMA: What brought about your involvement in the 4-page Lorne story for IDW's Angel comics?

JB: Favor to Chris, mostly.

NRAMA: Will it be set in Pylea? Around the time when he was The Hose at the Caritas karaoke bar? When he's the head of Wolfram & Hart's Entertainment Division? After his final TV appearance?

JB: It's set in Hell. Nuff said!

NRAMA: What appealed to you about Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan?

JB: Fun character. Hard to pin down just what it is.

Source: JOHN BYRNE ON FX, ANGEL, NEXT MEN AND MORE - NEWSARAMA (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=142345)

JB = John Byrne, a pretty famous comic book author/artist.

[goldenboy]

Huh. Does this mean First Night is gonna have other "celebrity" guest writers?

Edit:

Or...wait. Byrne's doing the art I guess, huh? Different artist for each story I believe...

So, they got Urru, David Messina (who's pretty good), Byrne. Wonder who else.

[Lyri]

ok, seriously, what's with the girls? Nina looks demented!

this cover migh actually be good if the girls were drawn better. the art in this comic is really putting me off reading the story altogether.

either get another artist, or Urru should get lessons in drawing women. maybe Richards can give him some tips, his Kennedy was nailed.

[goldenboy]

For some reason, Urru gives girls weird, beady little pupils in some panels. I guess that's comic book shorthand for "I'm crazy and pissed off", or...something.

[LadyLavinia]

Spike becomes the Demon Lord of Beverly Hills???? WTF?????

[alexa]

Is issue 3 released on the 16th? Is it me or do they keep saying it comes out in the last week of the month, but then it changes to the 2nd or 3rd week.

[Evilyn]

I think the mystery guy is Pike. The dude looks very Luke Perryish and Lynch hinted that it is someone that's never been on one of the shows. Pike was only in the movie....plus, he is from LA. If it is Pike, I'm totally gonna do the Snoopy dance!


Edit:

Whoops, misread the hint. If it is someone that has been on one of the shows then I'm gonna have to go with Groo, also.

[Tranquillity]

Brian lynch audio Q/A here (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=335358&blogID=345682392&indicate=1)

[alexa]

Listened to that today, beware of Buffy#10 spoilers if you haven't read yet.
He's pretty funny, and has some interesting stuff to say.. deaths and things. :(

[Allycat]

Brian did an interview with AICN. The interview also has some (black & white) art for First Night.

http://origin.aintitcool.com/images2007/angelfirst.jpg
http://origin.aintitcool.com/images2007/angelwes.jpg
http://origin.aintitcool.com/images2007/angellorne.jpg

INTERVIEW: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35281

[Keanoite]

How much does Lorne look like the joker here?

[Clem Rocks]

I was ready to complain about the art, but then i saw Wes O_O

*Assumes the guy in the first panel is Conner* Conner always was abit demented anyway, so it makes sense that he would look demented...

[VisionGuy]

Yeah that sketch of Wesley is amazing. Why is it that in the first two issues, he looks like BtVS season 3 Wesley?

[Allycat]

First Night will have art by a number of different artists. The Connor-page looks like Franco Urru and I know that the Lorne page is John Byrne. I don't know who's responsible for the Wesley art though, but it's looks pretty sweet!

[Clem Rocks]

Yeah that sketch of Wesley is amazing. Why is it that in the first two issues, he looks like BtVS season 3 Wesley?

I'm guessing that this Wesley is when he first died, and when he came back working for the Senior Partners, they changed him back to his older self or something?

[Tranquillity]

An interesting quite from the Brian Lynch interview linked a few posts above:

[EG]: In the first two issues of AFTER THE FALL, I like that most of the ANGEL characters have returned immediately and we're not being subjected to a long dragged-out tease, wondering when someone is going to show up. You can instantly get into the story. Was that a conscious choice?

[BL]: The story dictated it, but there are some faces we haven’t seen yet. Issue four, for instance, features the return of two favorites that haven’t been in the book yet. Well, one is popular, the other has his own little cult following. The FIRST NIGHT storyline (starting in issue six) deals with the first night LA was sent to hell and it features yet ANOTHER old friend. Someone that will make a lot of people really happy.

Who could they be? A slayer perhaps (i wonder aloud with not much actual hope:))