Was Joyce too hard?

[wiccianslayer]

i was watching s the episode becoming part 2 and gt to the scene where buffy and joyce had the confrontation and i was thinking joyce was acting to cruel with her "if you walk out of this house don't even think about coming back" and about her being a loon. what do you think was joyce to hard on buffy? what would you do in joyce's shoes? in fact what would you do in buffy's shoes during that confrontation?

[white avenger]

I don't think Joyce was a loon, and I don't think she was being too hard. I do believe that she was bluffing, thinking that Buffy, even if she did "go out that door," would be coming back. I also believe that she was being a protective mother who had just suddenly had a load of to say the least extremely disturbing news dumped on her. "I'm sorry, Mom, but I have to go out and kill a bunch of things that you only thought existed in horror movies, and, by the way, my boyfriend, the one I slept with at the age of sixteen? Well, he's a four hundred year old vampire who's planning on destroying the world, and I have to go and try to stop him. I may not survive the night, but if I do, could we please sit down in the morning over toast and juice and discuss this then? Oh, and just in case you're worried about me getting hurt, you don't have to, really, because I've already been killed once. It's no big thing. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've gotta go and save the world...again." Nope, I think Joyce showed remarkable restraint in not trying to tie her daughter up and call the guys at the funny farm to see if they do night pick up.

Add to all of that (and we didn't know this at the time, but Joyce certainly must have been thinking about it) Buffy had already had psychiatric care once before for seeing monsters. Joyce must've been thinking that her daughter was having a relapse.

[tashalindsey]

I don't think Joyce was a loon, and I don't think she was being too hard. I do believe that she was bluffing, thinking that Buffy, even if she did "go out that door," would be coming back. I also believe that she was being a protective mother who had just suddenly had a load of to say the least extremely disturbing news dumped on her. "I'm sorry, Mom, but I have to go out and kill a bunch of things that you only thought existed in horror movies, and, by the way, my boyfriend, the one I slept with at the age of sixteen? Well, he's a four hundred year old vampire who's planning on destroying the world, and I have to go and try to stop him. I may not survive the night, but if I do, could we please sit down in the morning over toast and juice and discuss this then? Oh, and just in case you're worried about me getting hurt, you don't have to, really, because I've already been killed once. It's no big thing. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've gotta go and save the world...again." Nope, I think Joyce showed remarkable restraint in not trying to tie her daughter up and call the guys at the funny farm to see if they do night pick up.


I agree with this. At that point Joyce, amazingly, didn't know that any of the things exsisted. When Buffy dropped this on her, she was so shocked that she just wanted Buffy to explain or attempt to. However, Buffy had to go kill Angel and didn't have time to have a heart-to-heart.

[Jone]

I don't think Joyce was a loon, and I don't think she was being too hard. I do believe that she was bluffing, thinking that Buffy, even if she did "go out that door," would be coming back. I also believe that she was being a protective mother who had just suddenly had a load of to say the least extremely disturbing news dumped on her. "I'm sorry, Mom, but I have to go out and kill a bunch of things that you only thought existed in horror movies, and, by the way, my boyfriend, the one I slept with at the age of sixteen? Well, he's a four hundred year old vampire who's planning on destroying the world, and I have to go and try to stop him. I may not survive the night, but if I do, could we please sit down in the morning over toast and juice and discuss this then? Oh, and just in case you're worried about me getting hurt, you don't have to, really, because I've already been killed once. It's no big thing. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've gotta go and save the world...again." Nope, I think Joyce showed remarkable restraint in not trying to tie her daughter up and call the guys at the funny farm to see if they do night pick up.- posted by white avenger

I agree 100%.

At first, I always thought Joyce was too hard on Buffy. But that was when I was younger and only saw that scene as Joyce being a jerk and not being supportive. I treated this moment as if Joyce should have known all along that Buffy was the slayer and that vampires and demons were real. However, she didn't understand why Buffy was behaving the way she was. She wanted to finally have control over her daughter (in a parent way...not evil!) and Buffy wouldn't have it. So she threatened her. Parents always say things they don't mean. And I personally don't think she REALLY wanted Buffy to leave...she just wanted to scare her.

[Wiccaness]

Yeah i think White Avenger pretty much said it, i think maybe at the time if i were in buffys shoes i would have thought that that was pretty hard, but it was alot to take in and she handled it better then i would have thought,

[MLLamble]

I think that Joyce was hard on Buffy. Of course, she did have a lot to process in not much time, but she was very unsupportive of the whole "Gotta save the world" thing. I think that she didn't actually expect Buffy to leave, which is why she said her little "If you walk out that door, don't even think about coming back!" line.

[Bored of the Dead]

I would love to see this split up.

I want Mothers and women/men over 18 to tell me what they think and clearly state they are either a mother or over 18 and teenagers under 18(both sexes) to state and make clear.

[white avenger]

I would love to see this split up.

I want Mothers and women/men over 18 to tell me what they think and clearly state they are either a mother or over 18 and teenagers under 18(both sexes) to state and make clear.


I qualify for the age and sex as a man over 18 (WAY over 18!), also as both a parent and a grand parent, My opinions and my arguments supporting them can be found several replies above this one, but I will restate them in part. Joyce was not being too harsh with Buffy GIVEN THE FACTS AS SHE BELIEVED THEM TO BE. Even if she HAD known everything that was really going on, Joyce never struck me as the sort who would say something to the effect of, "With your shield or on it," as her daughter went off to fight the forces of Darkness, At the very least, she would be shouldering her trusty fire axe and joining her daughter on the battle lines.

[ILLYRIAN]

As you stated white avenger. One of the fun things about being a parent, there isn't a manual, but being supportive, as much as is deemed suitable does help. Fire axes alround !. [but don't sing ....hi ho, hi ho, its of to work we go].

[drtroy]

well..I wouldn't say she was being hard..more of she did not handle the situation correctly. Heck, she barely knew what was going on, she did not know what could happen to her daughter....not only that she is probably a thousand times more likely to be killed than the average girl..I'm sure it went through Joyce's head..that someone could easily hurt her daughter because she had this gift. She was just being a mother, and wanted to protect her, but obviously she lost it when she realized that Buffy was becoming independent, and that she could no longer protect her. It had to be difficult not knowing if something terrible was going to happen to her daughter...could you imagine?I feel Joyce was thinking..that her daughter might not come back..

[Xin Rong]

I think joyce may have overreacted but with very good reason, I'm guessing that type of situation is fairly unique and I bet its definetly not in any of the parenting books lol

[JCC]

Why are we all speculating what we'd do if we were a fictional character whose daughter told us she kills vampires?

[ILLYRIAN]

Lets see, we enjoy speculating.
Umm, I'm not a fictional character ? Hang on, I'll just nip out and ask Joyce.
Are you infering that vampires don't exist ?

[Lindsey McDonald]

^Implying. Not infering........sorry. It bugs me. Not trying to be snarky.

Amyway, Male, 17. I think what Joyce said was perfectly understandable. She was rapidly losing control of her young daughter, and had nowhere near enough time to process any of what Buffy told her. She tried to regain authority with the whole shock factor bluff thing (probably improvised from one of the more extreme parenting books!) but it was the wrong thing to say. Not her fault though. If anything, Buffy is at fault. She really should have told Joyce earlier. And not coming back.... Did she have so little faith in Joyce?



Nah. they just needed to skip the summer without anything happening. Always annoyed me how Bufy would go away for six weeks a year, yet Giles would get on at her for going to the Bronze on a Friday night!

[Blondie Bear]

Nah. they just needed to skip the summer without anything happening. Always annoyed me how Bufy would go away for six weeks a year, yet Giles would get on at her for going to the Bronze on a Friday night!

Well, this summer was the only time she just up and disappeared. The first summer she spent in L.A. with her dad, and I would think that after dying and killing the Master, Giles would think she deserved a break (and besides, what's he going to do, tell her dad he can't take her for his legally-granted visitation?). The second summer, she ran off. The third summer she spent planning for college and taking another break. The fourth summer I assume she spent hanging out with Riley. The fifth, she was dead. The sixth, taking care of Dawn. So there were only the two times that she actually left town; it wasn't like she regularly ran off for weeks at a time (unless she was Slaying in Cleveland instead . . . :wink0:).

[ILLYRIAN]

Missed that completely, I was looking for the pun,
Joyce Summers.....Buffy Summers.....'skip the summer without anything happening'.
I was trying to see how the -skip thing- may have been an early reference to Dawn !.

[wiccianslayer]

buffy did tell joyce before and she put her in a mentale insttition i wouldn't want to tell joyce after that

[Lindsey McDonald]

Well, this summer was the only time she just up and disappeared. The first summer she spent in L.A. with her dad, and I would think that after dying and killing the Master, Giles would think she deserved a break (and besides, what's he going to do, tell her dad he can't take her for his legally-granted visitation?). The second summer, she ran off. The third summer she spent planning for college and taking another break. The fourth summer I assume she spent hanging out with Riley. The fifth, she was dead. The sixth, taking care of Dawn. So there were only the two times that she actually left town; it wasn't like she regularly ran off for weeks at a time (unless she was Slaying in Cleveland instead . . . :wink0:).


That's true, but it still strikes me as odd that the Big Bads took the same holidays as school kids. I know that its all part of the TV format, but I always laugh when the scoobies go whole summers without a Slayer, and then two episodes later all nearly die!

I can just imagine Giles trying to persuade Joyce to go on holiday to Cleveland each year!

Also:

"Bored of the Dead disagrees: Actually, to infer means to to derive as a conclusion from facts or premises so in this isntance ILLYRIAN could be seen as accurate"

Ahh..... You could well be correct. It all depends on what he meant, it could be read both ways. I just thought he meant imply rather than infer. Anyway, it doesn't really matter.

[Bored of the Dead]

"Bored of the Dead disagrees: Actually, to infer means to to derive as a conclusion from facts or premises so in this isntance ILLYRIAN could be seen as accurate"

Ahh..... You could well be correct. It all depends on what he meant, it could be read both ways. I just thought he meant imply rather than infer. Anyway, it doesn't really matter.

It only 'matters' when someone makes it matter by allowing it to affect them.
I was, in essence, doing you a service. You shouldn't be 'bugged' now so you can go and live your like bug free.

[StuckinTraffic]

I don't think Joyce was being too harsh, under the circumstances. She did overreact, but that was understandable, too. Her daughter just dropped this bombshell on her and then expected her to just be ok with it and get out of the way. Well.....what parent wouldn't go off the deep end? Admittedly, Buffy could have said, "look, mom...I'll explain everything, just not right this second," but she didn't. There's always something you regret saying or not saying later, but that's the way it goes.

The thing that's always pissed me off, tho, is that Joyce told Buffy not to come back....so she didn't! Why was she so surprised? Why did she blame it on Giles? I mean, had I been in that situation and my mother told me not to come back....even in the heat of the moment....you can bet by God....I'm not coming back!

[SlayerGuy91]

Well wasn't Joyce kind of drunk at the time? She seemed to regret it at the end when she found Buffy had packed up and left. It just seemed to be one of those things parents say to sort of threaten their children into doing the right thing.

[~angelic slayer~]

I think that Joyce did overreact, but probably no more than any average person would.

For starters, Joyce at this point had no prior knowlege of vampires.
As far as she's concerned, they're simply a make-believe character, a child's story of sorts. All she knows rationally is that: 1) Her daughter is out a lot, 2) Her daughter has been in some kind of an abusive relationship, had an emotional toll taken on her, 3) She's washed blood out of her daughter's clothing on several occations, 4) Her daughter could be in some kind of danger, and of course as we later learn, Buffy has been admitted to an asylum before. And now, on top of it, Joyce is stressed out, confused, unnatural things are suddenly happening around her, and N OWher daughter's saying she's "the chosen one" destined to fight the forces of darkness.

Man, I'd be a wreck too!

Given all this, it's also really not that far of a stretch to think that Buffy is insane. After all, she's (in Joyce's eyes) had this problem with vampire gibberish before- and she was admitted, and it was cured- it ended. Now she's having a relapse, talking about it all over again- so she must be going loony again.

Picture your daughter (or neice, or friend) coming up to you, after you've been through a ringer of a night, and saying they're the chosen one. What would your first reaction be (assuming you'd never seen or heard of the show Buffy or anything of the like ;))

Some other things that could have gone through Joyce's head:
-Her daughter was in a bad relationship, is so emotionally wrecked that she's hurting herself (blood on the clothing) and is so off the deep end that she's making up ridiculous stories to try and cover it up
-The strangers coming around are dangerous, her daughter's part of some kind of cult
-Her daughter is somehow tangled up in a gang, maybe the kind of behaviour that got her expelled from Hermey, maybe worse

All are pretty reasonable assumptions from Joyce's point of view. Not only that, but Buffy isn't even willing to talk about it. Her daughter, who's acting like a totally different person, who she gave birth to and raised, is just tossing her aside and ignoring her concerns, her confusion, her fears. (She doesn't know why, what's going on, remember)

All this happening in just a few short minutes.

I think that the ultimatum (walk out this door- don't even think about coming back) was Joyce panicing, grasping at her last hope to take some kind of control over the situation. She can't physically stop Buffy, she can't call for help, everything's confusing and crazy and moving way too quick and now her daughter is about to walk out to god knows where-- what else is there for her to do? She threatens Buffy with the only thing she has left, more out of despiration I think, than anything. She, I don't think, expected Buffy to walk out after that.

So yeah, Joyce was obviously in the wrong here, but I think that under the circumstances, it's understandable. She was just trying to regain some kind of control in an unknown and chaotic situation (in the only way she knew how) and it unfortuanatly, ended for the worse.

[ILLYRIAN]

So Buffy had been in an asylum before, for the same thing that she was referring to, and what was Joyce's reaction like ?.
The alarm bells should have rung, Joyce should have tried to help her daughter.

[wehappyfew]

That was one of the best scenes in Buffy history. Joyce and Buffy were both hurt.

That's the best way to put it.
Joyce was hurt that she hasn't known her daughter at all, she's hurt that Buffy felt that she couldn't trust her mom (which isn't even why she didn't tell her mom), she feels like she hasn't even been able to protect her own daughter.
Buffy's hurt that her mom couldn't figure it out...buffy's hurt that her mom is hugging her and telling her that everything's gonna be okay...buffy's comrade has just been killed and the whole world may be sucked into hell! it was just a tense situation.

Acting out of that hurt led Buffy to run away. She felt that she had no one else to turn to. That's pretty much the last thing that Angelus said to her....that last little nibble. "What's left?"

...to be honest, i've always wanted to know what the letter said.

[definition of insane]

About the "if you leave this house, don't ever come back" thing. I would just think it's a last resort type of remark. But at the same time it's a bit like a 5 year old trying to run away because they got in trouble. They know they're going to come back eventually (if they even leave the house at all). I feel as though Joyce thought "sure, I said this thing I probably shouldn't have said and Buffy left but she's just letting off steam and she'll be back" so it was more upsetting to her to think that Buffy would actually take it literally and just leave, seemingly to never return.

[Joyce Summers]

I know the last reply to this was like a month ago but I'm new and browsing. hehe.

I honestly don't think Joyce over reacted, I just think both she and Buffy handled a difficult situation badly. Like a few of you said, Buffy had been admitted to a mental institution before for going on about vampires, so understanably Joyce was gonna think this all crazy talk, that her daughter was having a relapse. I mean, if you seriously consider your teenager daughter (real, hypothetical or otherwise) suddenly saying to you 'yeah, i slay vampires' your first instinct would not be, in my opinion, to believe them.
And I know she had just seen a vampire dusted in front of her but Joyce is pretty much Denial Queen and mix that in with the shock and speed at which everything was happening and everything is going to be pretty confusing for her. I mean she does try, when she's listening in to Spike and Buffy conversation/confrontation.
Spike: Me and Dru for Angel.
Joyce: Angel your boyfriend?
...
Joyce: So you didn't kill that girl?
Buffy: Of course not
Joyce: Did she explode like that man out there?
Buffy: She was a Slayer Mom
Joyce: Like what you are...?

But her whole reaction is so totally like how a parent would typically react when a child comes out revealing they are gay. Case in point: "Honey are you sure your a vampire Slayer? I mean have you tried not being a Slayer?"

She was slowly losing control of a situation Joyce felt she desperately needed to take control of. Everything was spiralling off in all directions and fantasy and reality were starting to bleed together. We already know from 'School Hard' that Joyce places authority on ability not status as she says to Buffy 'Principal Snyder said you were a trouble maker and I could care less. I have a daughter who can take care of herself and thinks of others in a crisis. No matter what dumb teenage stuff you think you need to do, I'm gonna feel better knowing all that.' and despite Snyder being in charge she tells him to follow Buffy's orders as she knows what she's doing and even critisises him for not following them 'Snyder: And I say this is not happening! Joyce: Oh well then! I guess the danger's over'
So, when, in Becoming, Buffy shows how much ability and power she has Joyce also realizes on some subconscious level that she doesn't have that authority/control over her daughter like most parents have, so she tries to reason, she grasps at straws, she demands explanation but eventually has to resort to pulling rank 'if you walk out of this house, don't even think about coming back'. Buffy walking out, no matter how somberly, shows that she has the greater ability and so the power/authority. I don't believe Joyce meant truly what she said though. Like most of you have said, it was something said in the heat of the moment. And you can't blame her- when asking for an explanation all she gets told by her daughter is 'just have another drink'.
As for the blaming of Giles, it's easier than blaming herself and Giles stands for all that her daughter is forced to be hence the blameage. The two do try to make nice again though in Dead Man's Party when they start talking Art.

[Keanoite]

I know the last reply to this was like a month ago but I'm new and browsing. hehe.

I honestly don't think Joyce over reacted, I just think both she and Buffy handled a difficult situation badly. Like a few of you said, Buffy had been admitted to a mental institution before for going on about vampires, so understanably Joyce was gonna think this all crazy talk, that her daughter was having a relapse. I mean, if you seriously consider your teenager daughter (real, hypothetical or otherwise) suddenly saying to you 'yeah, i slay vampires' your first instinct would not be, in my opinion, to believe them.
And I know she had just seen a vampire dusted in front of her but Joyce is pretty much Denial Queen and mix that in with the shock and speed at which everything was happening and everything is going to be pretty confusing for her. I mean she does try, when she's listening in to Spike and Buffy conversation/confrontation.
Spike: Me and Dru for Angel.
Joyce: Angel your boyfriend?
...
Joyce: So you didn't kill that girl?
Buffy: Of course not
Joyce: Did she explode like that man out there?
Buffy: She was a Slayer Mom
Joyce: Like what you are...?

But her whole reaction is so totally like how a parent would typically react when a child comes out revealing they are gay. Case in point: "Honey are you sure your a vampire Slayer? I mean have you tried not being a Slayer?"

She was slowly losing control of a situation Joyce felt she desperately needed to take control of. Everything was spiralling off in all directions and fantasy and reality were starting to bleed together. We already know from 'School Hard' that Joyce places authority on ability not status as she says to Buffy 'Principal Snyder said you were a trouble maker and I could care less. I have a daughter who can take care of herself and thinks of others in a crisis. No matter what dumb teenage stuff you think you need to do, I'm gonna feel better knowing all that.' and despite Snyder being in charge she tells him to follow Buffy's orders as she knows what she's doing and even critisises him for not following them 'Snyder: And I say this is not happening! Joyce: Oh well then! I guess the danger's over'
So, when, in Becoming, Buffy shows how much ability and power she has Joyce also realizes on some subconscious level that she doesn't have that authority/control over her daughter like most parents have, so she tries to reason, she grasps at straws, she demands explanation but eventually has to resort to pulling rank 'if you walk out of this house, don't even think about coming back'. Buffy walking out, no matter how somberly, shows that she has the greater ability and so the power/authority. I don't believe Joyce meant truly what she said though. Like most of you have said, it was something said in the heat of the moment. And you can't blame her- when asking for an explanation all she gets told by her daughter is 'just have another drink'.
As for the blaming of Giles, it's easier than blaming herself and Giles stands for all that her daughter is forced to be hence the blameage. The two do try to make nice again though in Dead Man's Party when they start talking Art.


someone studied psych!

I totally agree though, what Joyce said was an idle threat. nothing more. But I still believe Buffy would have left regardless after killing Angel.

[Joyce Summers]

in fact someone *tried* to study psych and quit, haha, but i'm glad I come across as the pysch 101 type there. makes me sound more....academic and all-knowledgable hehe. Satisfaction here. And yeah, I agree, Buffy would have left anyway, because isn't that basically what she says in Dead Man's Party? About how there was nothing that anybody could do she just had to deal with it on her own. and she tells Joyce that she didn't run away to punish her (despite Xander's added dig of 'yeah well you did'

[Keanoite]

well you sound waaaaaaaaay academic!!

The scoobies attitude when Buffy comes back has always driven me mad!! I mean they basically let her know at every oppertunity during season 2 that whats happening is all her fault, no consideration that the girl is DEVASTATED!!! Then when she leaves they all think she's living it up!! even though Giles had his suspicions that Buffy had to kill Angel (his actions in Faith, Hope and Trick pretty much prove that) and also Willow said she felt the spell work, and they knew only Angel's blood could close the vortex, so when they went back and Acathla was dormant and no trace of Angel or Buffy what did they think had happened!!

[Jules]

I think that Joyce was probably a little angry with herself aswell and was taking it out on Buffy. She had just found out that her daughter was a Slayer, I bet a part of her was wondering how she could have missed something so huge when all the facts were in front of her. Buffy's out all the time, Joyce washing blood out of Buffy's clothes. I bet it was all starting to make sense to Joyce and it was something she was wishing didn't.

[palabravampiress]

I agree with the majority here: Joyce and Buffy both reacted badly, but I can't blame Joyce for "pulling rank" as a last resort.

That said, I grew up in a neighborhood in which getting kicked out was a thing that happened sometimes. I never thought it would happen to me, but it did happen to kids I knew - even to people in my family. I had one cousin who burned down her house. She got kicked out. I had another cousin who engaged in physical altercations with his mother. He got kicked out. Drugs, gangs, violence... things of this nature, things that made the home unsafe for younger siblings or other family members, were the kinds of things that got kids kicked out. In most cases, police had already been involved. In some cases, the kids were taken into custody. The parents were always terribly torn up about it, but what else could they do? Usually, the kids would learn their lessons through facing the hardship of fending for themselves and be slowly welcomed back into the family fold. The parents tended to keep good tabs on where the kids were staying, too. Sometimes, the situation was so out-of-control that not even this last resort helped.

When Joyce gave her ultimatum, then, I may have had a different perspective on things than most people. I thought she meant it. And I thought she was justified. Now... when Buffy didn't go and take up residence in Xander's basement and, instead, disappeared with Angel, I thought that's when the situation backfired. I thought the time apart and away was good and needed. If Joyce had been able to keep tabs on Buffy instead of Buffy letting her think she was dead or worse... maybe it actually would have turned out well.

Okay... I can't finish my thoughts on this because the hubby and the roommate are seriously freakin' out about wanting to go to the grocery store. It appears as if I am needed for this impromptu expedition, so I guess I'll say more later.

[EvanCooper93]

I don't think she was. She was being rational. Buffy made a little remark "You should have another glass." (something along the lines of that) and Joyce got angry. She's only human...

[vicp]

I think Joyce was just acting the 'typical' mother - she'd been hit with this bombshell all at once having seen that vamp being staked outside then learning her daughter was the slayer after she thought she was involved with what happened in the library. I think she reacted quite calmly in comparision- could you imagine if you have never even heard of a 'hellmouth' then all of a sudden to find your living on one.
After her outburst , ' you leave this house, don't even think about coming back', you see her reaction after Buffy leaves. This is a mother who has finally lost control of her daughter and knows now that she must now learn to adjust to her daughters destiny - unfortunately she wasn't able to tell her the next morning as Buffy left Sunnydale. And don't forget Buffy was under a lot of pressure at that point not only did she have the 'scooby gang' to think about she had Spike and Dru and Angel and that Acathla dude as well. To be honest she could said a lot worse then she did .

[Vicariously]

Being a mom myself I can tell you that I would probally respond a whole lot worse. First and foremost I would like to think that when my kids are older I would know what went on in their lives (in relation to Joyce who didn't have a clue) But I can imagine if for some reason I was kept in the dark about what my sons were really doing everyday and I found out that they were doing anything that would put their lives in danger, I would flip! I cant imagine being in Joyce's shoes. I mean seriously, how would you handle it if someone told you everything you thought to be a myth wasn't? That, "Hey my job is to kill demons before they kill me and one day one just might...gotta go toodles!" I am sure thats one statement that would leave you sitting there going WTH? And if it was your child?!?!?! seriously now, you wouldn't take it well I am sure. I mean what would you do say, "sure honey, go have fun risking your life?!" Hard? NOPE...not at all!

[The Chosen]

IMO, Joyce and Buffy both acted horribly. Maybe it was because they wanted it to make it easier to say goodbye, because if you're mad at someone it's always way simpler to go, "Seeya," than if you just had a heart-to-heart. I don't think Buffy wanted to leave her home when Joyce gave her that choice, but ultimately it's what she knew to be right.

[SoBlind]

I don't think Joyce was a loon, and I don't think she was being too hard. I do believe that she was bluffing, thinking that Buffy, even if she did "go out that door," would be coming back. I also believe that she was being a protective mother who had just suddenly had a load of to say the least extremely disturbing news dumped on her. "I'm sorry, Mom, but I have to go out and kill a bunch of things that you only thought existed in horror movies, and, by the way, my boyfriend, the one I slept with at the age of sixteen? Well, he's a four hundred year old vampire who's planning on destroying the world, and I have to go and try to stop him. I may not survive the night, but if I do, could we please sit down in the morning over toast and juice and discuss this then? Oh, and just in case you're worried about me getting hurt, you don't have to, really, because I've already been killed once. It's no big thing. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've gotta go and save the world...again." Nope, I think Joyce showed remarkable restraint in not trying to tie her daughter up and call the guys at the funny farm to see if they do night pick up.

Add to all of that (and we didn't know this at the time, but Joyce certainly must have been thinking about it) Buffy had already had psychiatric care once before for seeing monsters. Joyce must've been thinking that her daughter was having a relapse.

i dont think she was over-reacting either...but for different reasons. joyce didnt know that angel was a vampire, that he was gonna destroy the world and that buffy had been killed before. i think she was just pissed off because buffy wouldnt listen to her. buffy was being rude ("just have another drink, mum!") and then pushed her against the table when joyce grabbed her. i think the comment "if you leave this house dont even think about coming back" was just plain anger and frustration for not being able to control her daughter

[InsaneMystic]

No surprise to anyone who knows my previous posts on Joyce, I guess, but I think Joyce was very wrong here. After all, she SAW Buffy stake a vamp on her doorstep. Call me unconventional if you want (I certainly am, among other things in the regard that my talent for denial is about diametrically opposite than Joyce's), but if someone proves to me that "monsters are real" by killing one in front of my eyes, I'd instantly be willing to humbly defer to them in any matter of saving the world form demonic apocalypse... no matter if they're 17 and my daughter or not.

And if Joyce had thought even for a second that Buffy had a psychotic relapse, well she should have called the "funny farm guys"... to pick up herself. There's a point where denial just can't be called sane anymore.

[littlewilly]

I agree almost 100% with Insanemystic, and i also thought when Buffy returned in s3, Joyce had a bad attitude about it, ecspecially in Dead mans party and Band candy(''i just dont want you driving, buffy'').
But if someone kills a vamp in front of you, you may not like it, but you've got to accept it.

[Fake Shemp]

i think oz handled it a lot better,lol, "no actually it explains a lot."

but nope i dont think she was too harsh, she needed to be for that whole "what do you have left?" thing to work in the fight with Angelus.

[Dlou444]

I thought this part was one of the HARDEST parts to watch. Joyce's reaction seemed WAY out there. It would be one thing if Buffy was rebelling or smoking pot in the bathroom. But, she knew that Buffy didn't have a choice in the matter when it came to being a Slayer. She was it and that was all.

I understand Joyce not liking it and not being happy. But I always have equated her reaction to being in a packed school gym when a mad gunman comes in and shoots up the place and you're kid is the only one that's been EMT trained and saying, "If you go help those people, I'm kicking you out of the house."

It was the only point I was REALLY upset with Joyce, most of the time, I completely adored her.

[chiigusa]

I think Joyce's reaction was completely understandable. The two were both being unfair towards each other. Buffy wasn't explaining enough and just expected her mom to accept this sudden burst of information and Joyce was obviously more than a little confused. Despite how harsh her comment sounded, it's obvious she regretted it. As soon as Buffy leaves, there's a cut to Joyce holding her head in her hands, so as some people were saying, she was trying her last resort to get info out of her daughter, but at the same time keep her safe.

Regardless of what Joyce said, I do think Buffy would have left, anyway. If I had to kill the love of my life to save the world, I'd want to get far far away from everyone too.

[Dlou444]

You know, since you bring up them BOTH, I should add that BUFFY was wrong too. Granted, she WAS in a rush but there could have been more bargaining or explaining or promising to explain right after this one thing.
And instead of running off, she SHOULD have gone back home and at least TRIED to explain a bit more before just deciding she had to leave. It was a stupid teenage thing to do.
Stupid teenagers

[littlewilly]

Joyce was being stupid, she just seen Buffy kill a vamp, and she still comes out with 'i just dont accept that' when she's told Buffys a Vampire Slayer. Buffy couldnt explain properly, Joyce was having none of it, no matter what Buffy said, Joyce wouldnt have taken it seriously.

[hyperballadbrad]

She wasn't too hard on Buffy. It's not as if Joyce was actually going to kick her out... it was a thread and a way for her to try and push discipline onto Buffy!

They both had things going on, and both had all these feels that were caught up, and things just got out of hand!

[Violette]

Joyce's reaction was completely logical and reasonable; it was the reaction that any loving mother would have. I think the reason for her daring to kick Buffy out of the house was fear -- the fear of losing Buffy. The whole time that Buffy had been patrolling at night, killing vampires, and fighting demons, she did it by sneaking out of her room window and lying to Joyce about her whereabouts (for a good and understandable reason though). So I don't think Joyce was too hard on her when she finally found out in the end, she was just trying to be protective of her.

[Grami]

Well to Joyce it was as if everything she'd ever believed in had been completly turned on its head. She always struck me as someone who didn't believe in anything supernatural and then to find out that your daughter is proclaiming to be some kind of evil killer... I think she reacted as any parent would've tbh.

[buffbot23]

I think that it is hard for anyone to think about what they would do in this situation. Granted that I do think that Joyce's reaction wasn't the best but imagine your flesh and blood telling you that there are vampires and that she has to slay them. "If you walk out that door..." maybe not the best approach but the only Joyce knew.
At the same time, Buffy telling her mom to wake up and see all the things that have been going on, Joyce doesn't know about demons and such, and in the moment Buffy should have realized that.

[xcutsoflovex]

I think she reacted like any mother would. I mean, that is a huge revelation to have thrown on you & she really did have so much thrown at her in such a short amount of time. But she realized her mistakes afterwards. It definetly brought them even closer in the end.

[pernilleborup]

As Blake said: She reacted like a mother... I rest my case....with beer... again

[BASBritt]

As Blake said: She reacted like a mother... I rest my case....with beer... again


I agree... She might have been a little too harsh on Buffy, but as a parent, I've come to realize there are always going to be little moments that happen and later you look back and know you should have handled it differently. Hell, sometimes even when you're in the moment you think "I shouldn't be getting so crazy on him/her", but in the heat of the moment things are said and done that can have some really bad consequences. I didn't hate Joyce for reacting the way she did. It was sad, 'cause as a fan I had hoped she would have handled it better, but you know, no drama = bad TV. LOL