How come when Jasmine came the vamps...

[marukisu]

The vamps in the bowling alley in Shiny Happy Peopledidnt bow down. Why is that?

[Blondie Bear]

My first thought was that they were immune because they're dead. Then I remembered that Angel is dead. So maybe they're immune because they don't have souls? They did seem to recognize her, but they were scared, not worshipful.

[marukisu]

My first thought was that they were immune because they're dead. Then I remembered that Angel is dead. So maybe they're immune because they don't have souls? They did seem to recognize her, but they were scared, not worshipful.

i honestly think that they were more scared of angel and his crew with a whole bunch of killing objects than jasmine. its as if they didnt even notice her. maybe she wasnt powerful enough to put vamps without a soul under her thrall. probably because theyre like pure evl or somethin.

[Kana]

Yeah I think it's essentially any being with good in them. Angel with a soul, most of the human population and of course, good demon Lorne.

However soulless vampires or evil demons (like the demon in cave that Fred met) do not seem to be under her thrall.

Problematic or unknown cases: I'm not sure how it would effect a demon like Merl who while doesn't seem particularly evil, didn't seem particularly good either, Soulless Spike circa Season 5 onwards and Ryan Anderson, the soulless human.

[Nabila]

Yes it would seem that soulless beings are immuned to Jasmine's mind control and those with a soul are not. But why is that?

My shakey theory is that since Jasmine is a sort of god, albeit an evil one, she maintains her existence by being worshipped.Demons and vampires are not really inclined to worship anything since they have no conscience, and they have no spiritual or emotional needs. Humans or any other being, like Angel, who have a soul are then more vulnerable because of that innate need to believe in something. I hope you understand what I mean. And does that make any sense?

[InsaneMystic]

My shakey theory is that since Jasmine is a sort of god, albeit an evil one, she maintains her existence by being worshipped.Demons and vampires are not really inclined to worship anything since they have no conscience, and they have no spiritual or emotional needs. Humans or any other being, like Angel, who have a soul are then more vulnerable because of that innate need to believe in something. I hope you understand what I mean. And does that make any sense?
Mh I'm not sure about that... Even though I agree with you on Jasmine likely drawing at least part of her "nourishment" from the act of being worshipped, but there clearly are worshipful vampires. I'm pretty sure a sizeable number of the Master's minions were beyond loyalty, beyond fearful compliance, and deep into quasi-religious worship. Just look at the black leader - don't know his name atm - of the remnant of the Aurelius Order, after the Master's death in "When she was bad"... that guy's whole character concept is clearly about religious worship.

I guess we just have another tidbit added to the elusive concept of "soul" in the Buffyverse... A BV "soul" is the part of you that makes you eligible for utopian shiny happiness. :wink:

[ILLYRIAN]

That sounds a bit to complicated for me, I'll go with the easy answer, they were afraid their teeth would fall out.

[HyenaDemon]

Remember those insect demons, that Jasmine used to rule over? She chose a form that would be most appealing to them, physically.

Perhaps the same is here. Angel has a soul, so his definition or perception of beauty is probably different than soul-less vampires. It is implied that Jasmine took on a quintessential form that each human would find beauty in. Thus, since Angel has a soul, he has a different perception of beauty than one without a soul, thus he was taken by Jasmine's form as any human would.

Having a soul defenitely does alter one reacts to another being, as has been shown on this show. While a vampire with a soul might think kittens are adorable, a vampire without one will just think it's delicious.

But there is not one form that is inherently pleasing to all humans, which is probably why that one dude flipped out and called her a monster. Even though he did not come in contact with any of her blood.

Sorry if this is not as well typed as I want it to be, my brain is in a fog.

[InsaneMystic]

Actually that's a damn good theory!

But there is not one form that is inherently pleasing to all humans, which is probably why that one dude flipped out and called her a monster. Even though he did not come in contact with any of her blood.
If you mean the same dude I'm thinking of, he did get in contact with her blood... a vampire scratched Jasmine, and the same vamp dug his nails into that guy, so a trace amount of blood got passed. Yes, it's far-fetched, but I'm pretty certain that's exactly the explanation they had in mind, especially since the "Previously On" of "Magic Bullet" explicitely showed both scratches taking place.

[HyenaDemon]

Bah. And yet, I have come about a thousand theories for why the guy DIDN'T need to be in contact with his blood. Screw it.