Ultimately what is better, BTVS or ATVS?

[slayer07]

This is a hard one and i think you'll all agree with me. But overall i think BTVS is probally my favourite because being a girl i can connect with Buffy on a certain level because she's a girl. I'd like to here some of your opinions.

[Bored of the Dead]

The title of the thread is not the question you have answered.

You asked what IS better but you've answered which is your favourite.

I know it's a small point but they are two very distinct questions regarding two very different shows.

Which one are you hoping people will answer?

[Jade In The Sky]

lol Well, my answer to both questions is Buffy. :) But I will explain some other time...Okay, that wouldn't be fair. *thinking hard despite the need to sleep*. I consider BtVS better in terms of suspense and character development. In terms of actor abilites and actor choice they are equal. The cast in both shows is great lol I remember James Marsters saying how cool it was going into the boy's team...I didn't get what he meant until I saw ATVS and I thought wow. Mostly because of David and Alex but the rest were great too. Oh and if the criteria is impact ( how the show enriched your life ) BtVS beats ATVS again. :)

[Hawke]

I have to go with BTVS. Though I love ATVS (I started wathcing that then found Buffy) and think that it is the coolest darkest show ever, BTVS strikes a bigger cord in me and has impacted me in so many amazing ways. Angel is great, but I very rarley pulled life lessons from the show. Its stories where awesome and intense but did not have the emotional depth that Buffy's did. BTVS is way better, hands down. "Go, B!"

[sharkshark]

I agree, these are very different questions. My favorite of the two is ATVS but choosing the "better" of the two, I would say BTVS.

[Senior Watcher]

I want to preface my answer by saying that BtVS and AtVS are my top two shows of all time. I feel the preface is necessary given that choosing which one is better is like saying, "what do you like better, Star Wars or Lord of the Rings."

Anyway, I would have to say that BtVS is better than AtVS, but not by much. The main reason is that BtVS has 7 seasons and AtVS only has 5. The 2 extra seasons offered more character development and more story lines. Plus, BtVS had nice closure at its series finale; AtVS ended with a cliffhanger.

[white avenger]

On the whole, I preferred Buffy to Angel. In fact, I never watched Angel on a regular basis until Season 5. I have since bought the entire series on dvd, and enjoyed seeing them all. Still, Angel just doesn't have the same fire that Buffy had, though the last season was an improvement over the previous four.

[Bored of the Dead]

See I'll say my favourite is ATVS.
It just appeals to me more because it has that more adult nature.
It comprises different story narratives as well.
Season 1 was kinda like a Film Noir, season 2 went more musical. Buffy, though great, held the same line and though it dared go places on an episodic level, it rarely deviated on that.
Angel went far darker than Buffy, even though there were some really dark moments in Buffy.

Better in context of being made, i'm going to say Angel again.
We have some great character journeys in Buffy, mainly Spike and Willow BUT these are equalled by the development of Wes and Cordy and, as someone pointed out, this show was only 5 seasons.
Add to that the lead characters. Where Cordy and Wes equal Spike and Willow, Angel surpasses Buffy quite easily. Don't get me wrong, i'm not taking anything away from Buffy, I just felt we learned so much more of the Vamps motivations, his character past and to an extent where he will go that Buffy's kinda pales in comparison.
Angel, Wes and Cordy, though originally Buffy guys, did most of their growing on Angel.

We then have some great turns from Gunn, Fred, Lorne and even the likes of Lilah and Lindsay. These characters were far more compelling than some of the back ups on Buffy.
Yes we had Anya, Tara and Xander, Joyce, Giles and the season Big Bads that had some of the great episodes, but sometimes these guys had this kind of saccarine feel.

We have the likes of Darla that made a fantastic impact on the show, one off characters like Jheira, Gwen(couple off), the telekinetic girl that was abused by her father and the wonderful 'Anne', I think its easy to see why I believe Angel is the better show.

[StuckinTraffic]

I love them both, but I have to go with Angel. Like BotD said, it was more adult in nature. The character development was better, imho, because Angel had less time than Buffy to develop characters, and yet managed to take them all on a great journey. The characters actually changed, became something other than what they started out to be, which to me.....actually mirrors life. Buffy grew up, sure...stuff happened to her and she reacted...but she was fundamentally the same person in Chosen as she was in Welcome to the Hellmouth, albeit more worldly. Some of the characters on Buffy changed, Willow, Dawn....for instance. But they were mostly static...you knew how they were going to react in any given situation. With Angel, when he went that very dark place that culminated in Epiphany.....everything was up in the air. I was surprised by the events of Reprise and Epiphany, up till that point, I wouldn't have thought Angel capable of his actions. It turns out that the possibilities were endless.

[Jade In The Sky]

I'd have to disagree with both of you.

I don't think that character development has anything to do with the fact whether the show is with more adult or let's say youth nature. More likeable because of the adult nature okay, but to underesimate the inner changes of characters between 17 and 22 is not right. The characters in Buffy including herself grew up in many levels - whether it's Willow or Dawn or Xander or anybody actually. Yes, they didn't deal with some of the problems the characters in Angel did but that doesn't make ATVS better.

Yes, Wes's character growth is undeniable, he is one heck of a character. Cordy as well. But as a whole I don't think that ATVS were written so well, actually they seem static to me :) I think the writers tried to overdramatize, especially in season 4 which I am watching right now. How I see it, they screw up some great possibilities. They could take a lot more, especially from Gunn, Lorne and Fred.

As a kid, I used to think that a person can change so much that in some point he'll be unrecognizable. But what I see in life is exactly the opposite. Fundamentally, a person cannot change his core, he can only develop his qualities and aquire some new ones ( which will be a minority :P ) . So when I think of Buffy at the beginning and at the end of the show, I see somebody who has a clearer vision of theirselves, of who they are, of their evaluation system. More peaceful and confident, relying more on other people than herself etc. For me, that's a hell of a growth and it's the most important think that can be shown for a show reflecting the life of young people. It's the same for the characters of Willow, Spike, Xander and Dawn.

[Bored of the Dead]

I don't disagree that there was some growth, internally, of the characters, but what I do disagree with is "Fundamentally, a person cannot change his core, he can only develop his qualities and aquire some new ones".
It is in our nature to grow and learn and evolve and add to our core beliefs. We change almost on a daily basis.
The point with Buffy and Co is that save the BIG 2(Willow and Spike) the characters, In my opinion, react to situations exactly as you would imagine them to. You are definitely no where near complete at 16(using this as the basis as the characters were 16 when it started). You may feel a certain way about something, but over time this will change, evolve. When these core parts to your being change, you change. Wesley is the greatest example of this.
He went through the mill learning and understanding. Taking his core beliefs and evolving them.
Neither show had it spot on, heck I would love to have seen more of the Fred from season 4 when she was all on her own in the Jasmine part of the arc and don't get me started on wasted potential in Xander.

But I didn't just base my reasoning on character development.
The underlying theme of LA was darker, it lent itself to a murkier place than Buffy did.
This was explored really well.

The reason I believe Angel is better is because it managed to deal with all all the characters and do some of the great storylines.
Buffy had some great arcs, Willow was brilliant, but again an opinion the greatest, best developed story was the Darla one on Angel and the best, most real, villain was by far Wolfram and Hart.

[marukisu]

Honestly both shows are very good but have alot of flaws that put them on equal terms making it hard for me to choose a winner.

Buffy stuck to its central core and was very consistent however i felt as though it eneded too quickly. Because of this season7 kinda sucked except for when it some of the begining episodes and the last few episodes . In between the begining ad the end it was kind of dull. I think Buffy should have lasted 10 seasons and because season 6 was a great start at something dark they could have taken off from there and had a much darker adult themed seasons 7-10 . i would have kept the potential plotline for season 10 tho and have it less dragged out.



Angel i think can be watched by a more broader audience however the show itself kinda got a little crazy in terms of writing begining of season 4. season 5 was a nice save from a rather erraticand confusing season 4 however it got cancelled. Because of the cancellation a wase of so much potential for next seasons really make me mad (MORE SPECIFFICALLY ILLYRIA) Also the ending of Angel sucked. iI seriously think that Joss could have found a better way to end it. Another thing Angel did that was bad was kill off most of the cast which i mean is ok but so long as we get to know the charcters a little better. So much is left for character development in both shows that i think they both are on equal terms as of quality but very different in terms of presentation

[BuffySpot]

I do agree that both show are really great! But if I have to choose I choose buffy becasue of all the woman power. (Hot Chicks With Superpowers) LOL

:lsvader:

[marukisu]

Neither show had it spot on, heck I would love to have seen more of the Fred from season 4 when she was all on her own in the Jasmine part of the arc and don't get me started on wasted potential in Xander.





can you elaborate more on how you thought Xander had wasted potential. and also can you say what more would you have wanted to see from Fred on her own in the Jasmine arc. Also can you state any other characters that you felt had wasted potential like Xander and what would you have liked to seen them go with that character and also some other story arcs like Fred's solo Jasmine arc ,that you felt could have been elaborated on more.

[Buffy obsessed fan]

I could never choose. I came into Buffy first, and I absloutley adore it, But I love Angel. Having sad that, the storylines in Angel sometimes get a bit dark for my liking, but I still love it. If I HAD to choose, I'd probably say Buffy, because I understand the ideas behind things more.

[slayer07]

Ok BTVS is better because of the acting quality(srah michelle gellar)and i think that the stories that they come up for each episode are enitrely different and amazing every time.Alsso BTVS tend to have more fighting in it and less talking but dont get me wrong Buffy has had some well thought out puns that she's just splirted out in the face of danger. So BTV is my favourite amd better.

[Your Creamy Coolness]

I can't seperate...I think they are perfect mates and compliment one another. Shh..though..Buffy will always be a bit more special

[Keanoite]

Personally I tend to lob both shows together, I can't really picture one without the other. But, if I had to say which was better I think its Buffy. Part of the reason is because I could relate to it far more than Angel but mainly becuase I feel Buffy was far more consistant. There is alot of talk of weak seasons but truly when you watch them back there isn't one. Angel on the other hand I have HUGE issues with season 3 and 4. The majority of the story lines were either unbeliveable (cordy and angel...Please!!) or annoying (Connor!!...out annoys Dawn! something I thought impossible!!) and the whole Cordy/Beast/Jasmine arc was an insult to the viewers, it was half assed and badly thought out and the treatment of Cordelia as a character was in my opinion a disgrace.

[BlancheDubois]

I've been pondering this a bit recently. I prefer Buffy overall but there are some elements of Angel I prefer. I think S5 of Angel is better than S7 Buffy and I do like the dramatic story lines and plot twists in Angel. But then you have some bits which are harder to grasp like the Cordie-Angel thing or that rubbishy Jasmine.

[palabravampiress]

I like both shows, but I prefer Buffy. I can't decide which show I think is better from a technical or artistic standpoint. That will require me to write a research paper or something. :-)

I, personally, am more drawn to characters than to any other aspect of a TV show. To me, the characters on both shows felt as if they were very realistically rendered. But on Buffy, they felt like friends by the time it was all said and done. I felt a connection. On Angel, I never really felt that same connection. The characters seemed a bit more distant. Don't get me wrong; I think some of the characters on Angel took some amazing journeys. Watching Wes mature was and change was absolutely beautiful. I'm just saying that the characters on Buffy seemed a little more open to the viewer (or to me, anyway).

Also, Buffy felt consistent from season 1 to season 7. Sure, there were some things I didn't like, but I always felt like I was watching the same show. On Angel, every season and even some of the arcs within the various seasons made me feel like I had to reacquaint myself with the show all over again.

Ultimately, though, it's hard for me to distinguish between the two shows. In many ways, Angel's show was perfect for his character and Buffy's show was perfect for her character. I think the differences in tone, structure, style, characterization, etc. between the two shows reflect on the differences between the two title characters. Both shows were great.

[postmortem]

I should say BTVS is better because that's the main reason why I started to watch ATS.

[codyw1]

Buffy was better. Consistently brilliant from beginning to end. Angel irritated me at times, to be honest, it sometimes felt like one step forward and three steps back (especially seasons 2 and 3). They finally made it something great in season 4 and, while not quite as good as 4, 5 was a cut above too, making it a shame that it got axed when it was finally all coming together.
But in the end, Buffy wins hands down.

[Senior Watcher]

Buffy was better. Consistently brilliant from beginning to end. Angel irritated me at times, to be honest, it sometimes felt like one step forward and three steps back (especially seasons 2 and 3). They finally made it something great in season 4 and, while not quite as good as 4, 5 was a cut above too, making it a shame that it got axed when it was finally all coming together.
But in the end, Buffy wins hands down.

i agree that angel has some "irritations;"..........but more with seasons 4 and 5 (not 2 and 3). seasons 1-3 were cool with me. what was is about 2 and 3 that irritated you?

[codyw1]

They didn't do a story arc I liked until season 4! Darla bored me, Holtz bored me, and W&H drove me crazy, they never did anything and never had any real motivation behind anything they DID do. There were some decent standalones in 2 and 3 (The Thin Dead Line, Disharmony, Fredless, Billy) but once the 'big arc' for the year kicked in, I started to fall asleep. Season 4 was the first time that the "big arc" actually interested me.

Season 1 is pretty good, but it's very different to what came after, more of an anthology show than the "turgid supernatural soap opera" (as Gunn so aptly described it) of 2 and 3.

[Randy Giles]

For me, Angel is definitely the better series (except for season one).

Angel is darker, more complex, I like the method of storytelling better, Wolfram & Hart is one of the coolest villains ever, and I do feel that the characters grew and matured much more naturally than on Buffy. And from a production standpoint Angel is much, much better, it's beautifully filmed and looks excellent in widescreen, it looks much more expensive, the sets are excellent, the editing is better, the special effects are better...

Buffy is a great, great show to be sure but just doesn't quite measure up to the show it spawned.

[Bangelxx]

Buffy! definitely! I sometimes find some angel episodes a bit dull and a lot of it is 'freak of the week' type thing if you get my point. i have never watched a buffy episode that I havn't enjoyed though i have of angel. Another thing- Wolfram and hart bored me to tears! i really couldnt stand them!

[Randy Giles]

Angel...freak of the week? Are you sure we have the same show? Because Buffy had the monster-of-the-week thing MUCH much more often than Angel did.

[TabulaRasa]

BTVS. I only started watching Angel because of Buffy and it still never really touched me like Buffy. That didn't come out right.

[Bangelxx]

lol, yeah i get your point, tabularasa! I did too! (I'm hoping that the 'touched' part was not literal! lol)

[Jules]

Favorite or better the answer is the same for me, its BtVS. I watched Buffy religiously. In fact I would watch episodes over and over again to pick up things and analyze (sad of me, I know). With Angel, while I watched the show, more so in the earlier seasons never held the same appeal for me. Maybe it was because it was darker than Buffy and the adultness of it didn't appeal to me. Or because I prefer shows with strong woman with supernatural powers and even though Cordy was a great character who inherited visions I couldn't separate her from the shallow, selfish girl from Sunnydale (and before I get beaten to death by the Cordy fans, she was a great character, she brought much needed lightness to Angel, but she wasn't hard enough for my liking). Faith was a much needed addition to the Angel cast but I think it came to late for me to draw my interest from Buffy to Angel :)

[LadyLavinia]

I don't think that ANGEL was darker than BUFFY. Both shows managed to become pretty dark. But I think that BUFFY was a slightly better written show.

[Cordelia Chase*]

It may have been better written but idk. Im so much more attracted to ANgel. Its outside of the box. I like it Better than BTVS. I know. Go on and bash me but its true. I mean i love them both alot but Angel alittle bit more.

[white avenger]

Angel had the advantage of airing at 9PM, the beginning of "adult time," whereas Buffy, airing an hour earlier, was still considered to be in "family time," making it somewhat more limited in the material it could present. At least, that's what I read somewhere. Personally, I couldn't tell much difference in story content, and I preferred Buffy as long as it was on. In fact, I didn't even watch Angel on a regular basis until the final season,

[Dlou444]

Ahhhh...interesting and hard, because I love both shows for different reasons.
If we were talking about favorites, that probably be Angel. I've seen it LOTS more times and it has less SMG and Dawn whining. Which is a plus. They all seem "tougher" and I just love "Smile Time" with a passion that's not normal.

But, as for "better shows", I think I'd have to say Buffy. But, only because Angel got dealt some crappy hands. Like Charisma's pregnancy. All of season 4 seems kind of like it was forceably tossed in a certain direction because of it. I can't say how much would have happened anyway without the pregnancy, but it does appear to have been slightly more "thrown together" than any other parts of ANY of Mutant Enemy's projects.

And the the early cancellation did it's part too.

The potential was there, but the PTB just didn't come through for Team Angel....again!

[Nabila]

For me, BtVS is better because I love the idea of the Slayer and her friends. Buffy also happens to be my favourite character in the whole whedonverse, although I like most of them. I love Angel, the character, to bits as well. I just love Buffy more.

Angel the series was excellent. I just did not like the treatment of Cordelia's character in s4. I still watched s5 out of loyalty to Angel. I enjoyed it too but not as much as when Cordy was around. It felt incomplete. It was like watching a new Ats.

[Aussie]

Definatly buffy was the best. Dont get me wrong I still really enjoyed angel. Airing times didnt come into it for me as they all aired very late at night in oz. I think some of episodes of buffy could be watched on more levels than angel. Like a teen/kid could watch buffy for the entertainment value and still get the storyline, where as an adult might see the subtext aswel as the entertainment and understand the whole show a bit better. Angel on the other hand didnt seem to have as many 'levels' you couldnt really just watch it for the fun parts you had to pay more attention to subtext and if you missed an episode you could get lost!

[TheHeartist]

don't get me started on wasted potential in Xander.


Totally agree with that statement, Xander is exactly the same guy at the end of Chosen as he is at the start of WTTH: unsure of himself and feeling inferior to his fellow Scoobs. There was a podcast I listened to once, I believe the link is on the boards somewhere, all about this, it was titled: "Xander: 'Dude, where's my character arc?'" Thought the title was kinda funny.

On the two questions at hand (BotD, you had to go complicate matters didn't you?! Just kidding ;)) my answer has to be:

Favorite show: Angel
Better show: Angel

Both favourite AND better because I feel the characters (all of them, heroes, villians, fodder, e.t.c.) were simply stronger characters. Angel's story arc is way more fulfilling than Buffy's in my opinion, and the transformation of Wesley alone is enough to make the series really stand out. There are many other reasons, but I'd be here all bloody day!

[Crazy Flakes]

I think I'll go with the majority here and say that I definitely preferred Buffy. I also think it was the better show of the two. The concept of the Slayer was much more original than a good vampire to begin with, but that's not the only reason. Even though both Buffy and Angel had wonderful plots, Buffy seemed to execute them better. Not to mention the fact that Angel was a bit dull at times. In fact, the only Angel season I can watch all the way through without getting bored of it is season 5, whereas I can watch most seasons of Buffy continuously and never lose interest.

I think the main reason I prefer Buffy, though, is because the characters are far more likable, and the majority of them went through much more character development. Willow started out as a shy, weak, and stereotypical nerd, and by the end, she was practically a goddess. Spike started out as an evil vampire and wound up being a hero. Buffy began just wanting to quit her job as the Slayer, but at the end, she was determined to change the world and to be a good warrior. In fact, Xander, as many others have said, was really the only character who remained static in that show. In Angel, on the other hand, most of the characters didn't change too much. Angel was always just a vampire seeking redemption, Cordelia was always pretty shallow (even after becoming a higher power), Fred was always awkward yet intelligent...the list goes on. The only character that had a lot of development on AtS was Wesley. I could go on and on about his character, but the point is, about 90% of the Angel characters only went through minimal changes. Maybe that's just because they had less seasons than Buffy, maybe not.

So, yeah. In a nutshell, I definitely think BtVS > AtS.

[SintiKid]

For me, Angel is definitely the better series (except for season one).

Angel is darker, more complex, I like the method of storytelling better, Wolfram & Hart is one of the coolest villains ever, and I do feel that the characters grew and matured much more naturally than on Buffy. And from a production standpoint Angel is much, much better, it's beautifully filmed and looks excellent in widescreen, it looks much more expensive, the sets are excellent, the editing is better, the special effects are better...

Buffy is a great, great show to be sure but just doesn't quite measure up to the show it spawned.

I agree that the production values and special effects were much better on ATS, but not the rest. The characters and their storylines were much better written on BTVS, with more emotional depth. ATS just doesn't have the same impact. ATS seems more forced, like they just threw a bunch of elements together to see how it ended up, where BTVS seems more well-crafted.

[TabulaRasa]

Buffy for me. But this is merely opinion. You really can't say whether it's better or not because it's all about how we individually feel.

[Caleb]

i also was a fan of buffy first and i moved onto angel when i watch angel i think its better as its more dark and mystories however.....the story lines become slightly confusing with connor growing qickly and then sleping with cordy that was a god and then giving birth to a 30 year old women...that sorta put me off abit :D

so i would have to say buffy is the better of the two as the plots are eaiter to follow and its alot more light hearted in the fist sesons

[thegifting]

Angel, in every single way possible.

[littlewilly]

angel was very good but Buffy has better storylines, characters, big bads, its just got the edge over angel with everything.

[lemst6]

I personally think that Angel was the better of the two shows. Buffy seemed to appeal to a younger crowd, and I think Angel was written for a wider audience than Buffy. I think the plots were more believable and I personally thought the character development in them was better. I started out watching Buffy, and then switched over to Angel, and personally, I think that Buffy was great, but Angel just appeals to a bigger crowd more than Buffy does. However, I think that asking which is the better show is like asking whether Desperate Housewives or Law and Order is the better TV Show. They both are written for a slightly different audience. Buffy for the more lighthearted, youthful, "dramatic" audience, and Angel for those who prefer the "Law and Order" style.

[Cangel]

I like both shows about equally, but if I have to chose I'm gonna say Angel. Most my favourite characters ended up there, it had Cangel, and some of the storylines were just awesome. But, usually I try to see Buffy and Angel as one show, and rather say what season I liked best. And there are some I really liked on Angel and others on Buffy (strangely, my favourite ones are s2 and s3 on both shows)

[SC7 Fan]

at first i didnt like angel and prefered buffy but i gave angel a try to see what it was like and found that i enjoyed it. i still prefer buffy though. as for thinking of them as 1 big show i sometimes do that.

[JCC]

I much prefer Angel. I love Buffy. But Angel > Buffy.

Had Firefly run for longer, Firefly would > Angel and Buffy.

[Crazy Flakes]

as for thinking of them as 1 big show i sometimes do that.

I don't really see how someone who had actually seen both shows could do that, to be honest. I usually forget they're even in the same universe. Buffy tends to spend more time focusing on character development and relationships, and it's more humor-oriented than Angel (although Angel certainly had a healthy dose of humor.) I'd say that Angel was more dramatic or darker, but Buffy had some very dark and dramatic themes that matched up to, if not surpassed, Angel's. Instead, I'll say this; Angel is more mysterious.

When I posted my last reply, I hadn't seen Angel season 5, so I'm going to change my opinion a little. I still think Buffy is the superior show, since it had more likable characters (although if Willow had been on Angel, I would've said the opposite...) and better writing, but I will say this: Angel's very best episodes and storylines were just as good as Buffy's. The main problem with Angel was that some of it was very boring. Since Angel season 5 was definitely the one that kept me the most entertained, I would've liked to see if another season would have changed my opinion.

[littlewilly]

Obviousy Buffy. Obviously. Angels good but Buffys better. Buffy Summers is better than Angel/us. Willow Giles Xander Were Better than Fred Gunn Wes. Btvs had Master, and Faith, and Glory, what did Ats have ? Btvs was better in every respect.

[Fake Shemp]

buffy because it is...... errr yeah lol

[KhaoticLove]

BTVS even though I love ATVS.
I get into BTVS more than ATVS.

[InLoveWithBuffy]

BTVS because i don't get same relif from ATVS like i do from BTVS

[Buffanator]

Altho I identify more with the Angel crew, & consider Angel to be more "adult" type show than Buffy.... Buffy is a TAD BIT BETTER of a show.

7 seasons vs 5 seasons, what can I say?

Plus, I love seeing hot girls kick ass! :D

[LorneyTunes]

To me I like Buffy more because its not as dark as Angel .

Yet I love Angel and without Angel think of all the great characters we wouldn't have gotten to see more of like Wesley turning into Lone Wolf Rogue Demon Hunter
And Cordy admitting to being Queen bitch for the longest time and trying to atone for it x

Plus there would be no Lorne or Fred x


Buffy reminds me of school and sitting with my mum watching it on tv , its very personal and emotional to me and i can relate to it more x

[Bluebird]

To me I like Buffy more because its not as dark as Angel.

That's the reason I prefer Angel - because it's so dark. I think it took more risks that way and I love it for that:evilgrin2

[MozYa]

Mine ultimately would be Buffy.

I appreciate it on a much higher level than Angel, it something new that hadn't really been explored before. I love how pretty much every demon is a metaphor for something in real life. I've also come to appreciate the way the show is edited since I'm halfway through a Media course and figured out all the different things that needs to be done during Post-Production.

[littlewilly]

Buffy, Willow, Xander and giles v Angel, Gunn, Cordy and Wes. Winner= Buffy
Master, Angelus, Mayor and Glory v Darla, Holtz, Jasmine and Blackthorn. Winner= Buffy
Anya/Xander, Willow/Tara, Buffy/Angel v Angel/Cordy, Gunn/Fred, Fred/Wes Winner= Buffy
And so on and so on......

[InsaneMystic]

Buffy, Willow, Xander and giles v Angel, Gunn, Cordy and Wes. Winner= Buffy
Had you let Fred into the equation, it wouldn't have been so clear anymore. Still, it would be a win by a (significantly slimmer) margin for Buffy. ;)

Master, Angelus, Mayor and Glory v Darla, Holtz, Jasmine and Blackthorn. Winner= Buffy
IMO, Jasmine easily beats Master, Mayor and Glory. But not Angelus (I agree with your post in the other thread that the Angelus arc in B-S2 was the best arc of either series.)

Anya/Xander, Willow/Tara, Buffy/Angel v Angel/Cordy, Gunn/Fred, Fred/Wes Winner= Buffy
Gota disagree here. While Tillow is - of course - sacred, Cangel & Fresley beats Bangel & Xanya in my book. (Bangel got forever ruined for me in S3; had Angel stayed dead/banished after "Becoming", you'd probably have me on your side!)

All in all, I agree that Buffy is somewhat better overall, but not quite as strongly better than you see it. It especially wins out in terms of humor - Angel S5 is so lucky to have Spike, as far as I can tell up to this point! The LMAO quotient of Angel has seriously risen since he reappeared.