The Killer In Me--thoughts [Archive]

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white avenger

11-19-2007, 06:11 PM

I'm watching this episode at the moment, and I just wondered: am I the only one who found the entire Willow/Kennedy of this episode distracting and was time that could have better been spent on the Spike/Buffy/Deteriorating Chip story? Or watching Anya paint her toenails, for that matter. (Does anyone notice my dislike of the Willow/Kennedy relationship here?)

Keanoite

11-19-2007, 06:14 PM

As far as I am concerned Kennedy is the route of all evil and is crying out for a good evisceration!! I have never so violently disliked a character as I have her!! So belive me I'm right there with ya!!

Rowan Hawthorn

11-19-2007, 07:26 PM

Guys, the psycho-meds are over there ----> :nana: ...er, there... ---->

Keanoite

11-19-2007, 07:35 PM

Guys, the psycho-meds are over there ----> :nana: ...er, there... ---->

Yeah but they never work!!!!!:lmao:

Blondie Bear

11-19-2007, 08:26 PM

I understand the necessity for Willow to move on. Life does continue after someone dies, and I think it would have gotten annoying if Willow was constantly mopey and depressed over Tara's death. (Buffy barely avoided this annoyingness after her failed relationships, usually because something huge was going on. It was too early in the season for Willow to be so distracted, however.) HOWEVER, I do have to agree that the Willow/Kennedy relationship was horrible; it felt contrived, I didn't believe that Willow would like someone like her. . . . Honestly, it felt like they were involved because they were the only two lesbians around and had no other choice. And I hated Kennedy.

So, yeah, I'm right there with you. I'd rather watch Anya paint her toenails than watch Willow and Kennedy make out, too.

Rowan Hawthorn

11-19-2007, 08:37 PM

(Checks medicine cabinet.) 'S'okay - there's plenty for everybody... :whistle:

Keanoite

11-19-2007, 08:52 PM

(Checks medicine cabinet.) 'S'okay - there's plenty for everybody... :whistle:

Ok am I to interpret it that you are pro Willow/kennedy?? cuz if you are your going to be needing that cabinet full of meds!!

white avenger

11-19-2007, 09:52 PM

It was too early in the season for Willow to be so distracted, however.) HOWEVER, I do have to agree that the Willow/Kennedy relationship was horrible; it felt contrived, I didn't believe that Willow would like someone like her. . . . Honestly, it felt like they were involved because they were the only two lesbians around and had no other choice. And I hated Kennedy.

So, yeah, I'm right there with you. I'd rather watch Anya paint her toenails than watch Willow and Kennedy make out, too.

Not only was it too early and contrived, we're talking about a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL and a twenty two year old woman.

In Georgia, that constitutes child molestation if not statutory rape. Granted, it looked like the world was more than likely about to end, but still, Kennedy's little more than a baby and Willow's old enough to know better, and if she's not, Giles certainly is.

If he had the nerve to appoint himself Buffy's moral conscience, actually trying to kill one of the group's strongest fighters just because he "wanted more" for Buffy than a man who had gone against his very nature to risk death by regaining his soul (and almost dying in the process) after, even in a soul-less state assisting in averting at least 3 apocalypses and enduring torture by a hell god to protect the Slayer and her family and friends (and remember, Spike and Buffy weren't at that time "doing the deed" while Willow and Kennedy were cuddling all over the house in plain sight of whoever cared to look), why wasn't he at least as conscientious about Willow?

Maybe the old Watcher needs to put his glasses back on, because he obviously isn't seeing everything that's going on right under his meddling nose.

Rowan Hawthorn

11-19-2007, 09:54 PM

Ok am I to interpret it that you are pro Willow/kennedy?? cuz if you are your going to be needing that cabinet full of meds!!
I am, yep. The first knee-jerk reaction I had to Kennedy was "Who the hell she think she is?" Then I started paying a little more attention and started noticing some things, and I decided I actually like Kennedy quite a lot. I posted this in response to a poster's question over on Iyari Limon's fansite, and, since you ask, :lmao: I'll repost it here:

Not sure this is really on-topic, but since a Kennedy analysis was requested, here y'go, a couple posts I made at other places some time ago. There are a few icon commands that didn't parse, but the intent is pretty clear. First, the short version, posted in response to another poster's comment.

====
Personally, FWIW (not much, I know,) I'm with you. I didn't like Kennedy in the beginning, but she kinda grew on me. At least she does recognize that she's "kind of a brat," and we also got to see that she's willing to drop the bad-[MOOSE] attitude when it benefits someone she really cares about. While she obviously started out playing Willow just to see if she could get lucky, she just as obviously did wind up really caring for her, otherwise she wouldn't have been willing to stick with her after nearly biting the big one at Willow's hands not once, but twice. No, she's not Tara - for Willow, will there ever be another Tara? - but Willow needed a push to get her functioning again, and Kennedy's perseverance and support helped kick-start that.

Plus, Iyari? Cute...
=============

And the extended version, posted at another board in response to a similar thread:

=============
With respect to the Willow and Kennedy thing, Kennedy grew on me. Here's kinda how my thoughts went (this is a long post. Hope I don't bore anybody, and I hope it's not out of line here. Just been a while since I actually got to take time to play the game...)

First, I need to start off with some stipulations:

1. I really, really like both Aly and Amber, though I've never met either. From all reports, they're both really nice people.
2. I really, really liked Willow, and Aly's portrayal.
3. I really, really liked Tara, and Amber's portrayal.
4. I really, really liked Willow and Tara as a couple.
5. I really, really hated to see Tara killed off.
6. I really, really hated to see Willow hurt so badly.
7. However, I really, really liked the drama it created (Is there a "shrug" icon? No? Darn.)

Okay, so here goes:

I really, really like Iyari, though I've never met her. From all reports, she's really nice people. As for Kennedy:

“Bring On The Night”
• I was pretty annoyed with Kennedy's attitude towards Buffy when she first appeared. Who she think she are? ::huh1:: She's cute, though.
• Is she really flirting with Willow in that pushy manner? Who she think she are? ::huh1:: She's cute, though.

"Showtime"
• Huh. Sounds like maybe she really is interested in Willow in more than just an "I wanna jump your bones way."
• Huh, again. She's really protective of Willow, taking her side against the other Slayerettes. Whuzzat all about?
• Whoa, girl's got backbone, too. Maybe I misread her. (Maybe I was supposed to... ?)

"The Killer In Me"
• Okay, she's devious, sneaky; a lot of similar traits to most of the Scoobies, actually. And, at this point, it might actually take something like that to get Willow out of the house.
• Hm, okay, she can be forthright and honest when she wants to. Seems like maybe she really is interested in more than just a one-night stand.
• Willow took on Warren's appearance when they kissed? Well, so much for that budding romance…
• Huh. How about that. Not only is she trying to help someone she barely knows with a problem she isn't remotely prepared to deal with, she's ready to open a whole can of whup-ass on Amy for causing it. And she don't back down worth a damn.
• Willow? With a pistol? Well, so much for that budding romance...
• Well, now, that's interesting. For someone who doesn't really even believe in magic, she catches on quick. And she don't back down worth a damn. We'll see where this goes.

"First Date"
• Okay, so W & K are still friendly, even after Willow threw down on her last episode. Not sure I could put that behind me; a wise man told me long ago: "Never get hooked up with a woman who's got more problems than you do." But, it's Willow, so in Kennedy's place, I'd probably ignore that advise, too... :blushy:

"Get It Done"
• Damn, she's cocky. Chloe needs to clock her one.
• Kennedy looks really upset over Chloe's suicide. And the First Evil's hint that she helped it along hurt her. She's still got a temper, though, and she doesn't really understand the Buffy/Willow dynamic - but technically, she's right about who's the most powerful. She just says things when she's mad that she probably should think over.
• The "Exchange Student" would make three of her, and she jumped right in without a second's hesitation. Girl's got backbone. But she really doesn't understand how dangerous Willow's talent can be.
• Oops. Guess she does now. So much for that budding romance...

"Storyteller"
• Well, now. That's twice Kennedy has nearly been at the ouch end of Willow's issues, and she's still interested? She must be truly Willow-smitten (well, naturally. Who could blame her?)

"Empty Places"
• I'm ambivalent on this one. On the one hand, Kennedy had enough grace to apologize to Buffy for her thoughtless remark, and again shows her backbone by being the first to take action against an armed cop in the Bronze, but on the other hand, she then is in the lead later when the Slayerettes revolt. On the third hand (waitaminnit, where'd that come from?? ) she has a point, and, while she's certainly not being very diplomatic, she's not actually being a bitca about it the way Rona is; she's just mad.

"Touched"
• Kennedy doesn't like being dismissed without being heard, but when it comes down to it, she does the job (and, in retrospect, she may have been right,) and seems to get over it pretty quickly. Her aggression concerns Willow, though. Not sure where that's going to lead.
• Well. No power, no fancy dinner, no nice restaurants, no soft music, so Kennedy does the best she can with what she has to work with. Boot the roommates to ensure some privacy, light some candles, ditch the sweatsuit, surprise!
• Willow's still a nervous wreck, and terrified of herself; surprisingly, Kennedy is patient, understanding, and gentle with her, a side of Kennedy that we haven't seen come out with anyone but Willow (and I thought Iyari did a very good job of making Kennedy look like she really wants Willow so badly she can't keep her hands off. Notice all the subtle little "business": little kisses, nuzzles, and even what appears to be a tummy rub just out of camera view :looking: (yes, I noticed. What am I, dead? :biggrin: )) Also, Kennedy lets Willow take what she needs first.
• Looks like both women survived the night. She might be good for the little red witch, after all.
• Kennedy go boom? Well... so much for that budding romance. And just when I was starting to like her...

"End of Days"
• Looks like a few of the Slayerettes survived the blast, including Kennedy. She's a born leader; she takes charge, and might have gotten them out if it hadn't been for the Turok-hans' appearance. Once again, I'll say this: the girl's got backbone. And, stubborn as she is, she does acknowledge to Buffy that they made a mistake (or is starting to when she's interrupted.)

"Chosen"
• Kennedy's expression is hard to read during the first part of Buffy's speech, when Buffy says that she knows some of them wish she hadn't been the Chosen One: maybe a little agreement, a little guilt.
• Again, notice the little subtle "business" when Willow is working on her spell and Kennedy is lying on the bed behind her; she has just the hint of a smile as she's playing with a strand of Willow's hair.
• Okay, well, Kennedy's being fair about Buffy, which actually gets her high marks; they've butted heads enough it would be easy for her to just blow off anything Buff suggests, but this time she thinks Buffy's right and says so. She also admits to her own faults, which gets another positive mark. And we see something here that hasn't really shown up much since she first arrived: she's scared. With good reason, really. She's trained since she was a child to maybe be the one Called to fight the forces of Evil; now, here she is in the middle of that fight, but without those Slayer powers. And she's still young.
• And she's in love. She doesn't really say the word, but she doesn't have to. What she does say, and the way she looks at her girl, says it all. She has really and truly fallen for Willow. (Whether Willow returns those feelings or not, is a matter for debate all the way to the end. I think she's getting there, but she still has reservations.)
• Speaking of the end, did I mention that the girl's got backbone?

So... Okay, I now officially like Kennedy a lot. She's not Tara, but that's okay; everybody's different, and Willow and Kennedy make a cute couple, too. Wish we'd got to see more of them.

Joss, about that spinoff...?

Gods, I love cut & paste... :lmao:

Keanoite

11-19-2007, 10:05 PM

You can't deny that you know what your talking about and I have the upmost respect for that. But here's the thing, I HATE HER!! I cannot explain it or rationalise it and to be honest i don't think I want to. Anytime she was on the screen I wanted to slap her.several times. and hard.with a shovel!!!! She could have found time to cure cancer and erradicate world hunger in between patrols and I would still find a reason to not like her!

maybe I should look into those meds????

Rowan Hawthorn

11-19-2007, 10:20 PM

Not only was it too early and contrived, we're talking about a FIFTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL and a twenty two year old woman.

Actually, no, we're not. Kennedy was nineteen - specifically stated in the script, even if not on the air, and even on the air was clearly older than the other Potentials. (And I'm fairly certain that's common knowledge among just about everybody now, so what's the point here?) That's legal everywhere, even in the US. We have no idea when Kennedy's birthday falls - or Willow's, for that matter - so the difference in their ages is only two or three years. I don't know what college you attended, but that wouldn't even raise an eyebrow anyplace I've ever been (wanta go down to the nearest university and count the number of freshman girls dating seniors?)

As far as the "too early" chorus, I'm amazed at the number of people on the internet who seem to have no experience of real-life losses. Tara had been dead over a year by the time Willow and Kennedy got together. That's not at all uncommon in real life - and Willow's relationship with Kennedy actually advanced at a slower pace than hers and Tara's. Too early for some of the fans, perhaps - but not for the real world.

Edit:

You can't deny that you know what your talking about and I have the upmost respect for that. But here's the thing, I HATE HER!! I cannot explain it or rationalise it and to be honest i don't think I want to. Anytime she was on the screen I wanted to slap her.several times. and hard.with a shovel!!!! She could have found time to cure cancer and erradicate world hunger in between patrols and I would still find a reason to not like her!

maybe I should look into those meds????

Heh! Okay. (Rummages through prescriptions...)

Edit:

Huh. "Automerged doublepost." That's what I get for watching TV and posting on the boards at the same time.

white avenger

11-19-2007, 10:39 PM

Joyce Summers

11-20-2007, 03:29 AM

Rowan Hawthorn

11-20-2007, 05:58 AM

[QUOTE=Rowan Hawthorn;459814]Actually, no, we're not. Kennedy was nineteen - specifically stated in the script, even if not on the air, and even on the air was clearly older than the other Potentials.
Edit:

I stand corrected. It was one of the other girls, Cloe, I think, who said that she was only 15. I still don't like the little twit, 15, 19, or old enough for Social Security.
And that's a whole different thing from the other.

Edit:

Kennedy did like *really* annoy me. She was like a wannabe Faith, only Faith is you know..likeable.
Speak for yourself. As a character, I liked the drama that Faith brought to the series, but Faith herself? Never liked her, wouldn't have trusted her as far as I could throw a grand piano. Known too many people like her IRL (except they weren't Slayers, of course...)

Edit:

What the heck is with this "Automerged doublepost?" Does the forum software assume that two posts made within a certain time limit are unintentional?

Keanoite

11-20-2007, 06:38 AM

[QUOTE=white avenger;459820]
And that's a whole different thing from the other.

Edit:

Speak for yourself. As a character, I liked the drama that Faith brought to the series, but Faith herself? Never liked her, wouldn't have trusted her as far as I could throw a grand piano. Known too many people like her IRL (except they weren't Slayers, of course...)

Edit:

What the heck is with this "Automerged doublepost?" Does the forum software assume that two posts made within a certain time limit are unintentional?

no it just saves room. If the same person posts two times in quick succession they get bunked together.

Joyce Summers

11-20-2007, 06:38 AM

apparently they do. haha. it annoys me the automerge, because sometime your added edit makes the post less sensical...hehe
And no I would never *trust* Faith, but I don't know...I liked her. Second Slayers wise I preferred Kendra for her pure naivety but uber studious attitude, but Faith tops Kennedy in my opinion. But as you like Kennedy I will go no further into that, hehe ;-).

Keanoite

11-20-2007, 06:45 AM

Kennedy did like *really* annoy me. She was like a wannabe Faith, only Faith is you know..likeable. Besides I just thought the relationship was icky. I don't know. I think it's that- and before I say this which you all might misinterpret I am not against homosexuality in anyway, just so we're clear hehe- I never really considered Willow to be gay.I mean considering the way she fell for Xander and Oz, drooled over frat boys, Owen and crushed on Giles then we can at least say she's Bi-sexual, not gay. However, I don't think she would have ever dated women if she had not come across Tara. And in my view I always saw it as she wasn't lesbian, she just found her soul mate, and her soul mate *happened* to be a girl, do you understand what I'm saying? I hope it made sense. So when it just seemed a simple lust deal with Kennedy I was like 'nyeh...that ain't right'. Plus, I just didn't like Kennedy. Actually I hated all the potentials except Amanda, but let's not get into *that* here. hehe

I completely get it, and Willow said it herself 'it wasn't women it was a woman' so I would agree about the whole not defining her thing. And the whole soulmate thing, it actually happened to one of my best friends. She had always gone out with fellas and really didn't show any interest in girls but for the last two years she has been completely head over heels in love with a girl! For that reason I don't really like sticking labels on people, shes not suddenly gay or lesbian shes the same as she always was!!
Damn I always end up rambling!

Rowan Hawthorn

11-20-2007, 08:47 AM

Rambling, maybe, but this I agree with. I've always seen Willow not as gay or straight or any other label, just a rather lonely, needy person who loves who she loves regardless of gender - and who she loves seems to be defined in terms of who pays attention to her. Both Oz and Tara won Willow in the same way that Kennedy did, albeit more subtly. Don't believe me? Go back and re-watch. Willow was pretty much indifferent to both (Oz was totally right about Will's motive in coming on to him in the van) until they displayed a real interest in her - something that she wasn't used to and never really "got." Not saying that either Oz or Tara were being manipulative, but the "quiet seduction" was more in keeping with their natures; Kennedy was just more obvious about it.

Joyce Summers

11-20-2007, 09:06 AM

I'm so glad you guys got what I was trying to say haha! And Keanoite- that is really uncanny such a similar situation happening to your friend. But I totally agree on the whole 'non-labelling' front. And I'd forgot that quote of 'it wasn't omen it was *a* woman'. I could have so backed my argument more effectively there. But cha came through for me there. haha.

Rowen Hawthorn- you made an interesting point there about what made Willow interested in the people she was interested in. Hmm, I guess I'd never really thought about that before. I'll have to go back and look now so I can nod in agreement and go 'hmm' so as to not look dumb. hehe ;-)

Keanoite

11-20-2007, 11:29 AM

Hahaha I know! she is really insecure about it, I'm the only person who knows about her and her girlfriend but I told her about Willow and Tara and it actually really made her feel better, like she wasn't freak for feeling what she was feeling so for that reason alone I will always prefer willow and tara.

Oh and I agree about willow responding to people who pay her (positive) attention. No matter what she does she will in some way always be the one who couldn't talk to the boy she liked, she needs to pursued, magic aside, Willow will never be the agressor.

Spirit_Of_Fred

11-20-2007, 08:03 PM

Rowan Hawthorn

11-20-2007, 08:51 PM

Remember that she'd known Xander since they were toddlers, and, while she said once that they hadn't always been close, both of them state that they've been best friends their whole lives.

Now, it may have been that Xander was her first genuine crush, but then consider this:
Who was there to support her when she broke the yellow crayon in kindergarten?
Who used to call her every night to talk about what went on today in school?

It's entirely possible that her crush on Xander was just the same response to being treated as if she mattered (one might even suggest that that's a large part of her friendship with Buffy, as well,) and that, if Oz or someone else had come along sooner, Willow might have given up her unrequited crush on Xander years before.

Edited to add: While Xander is studiously indifferent to her romantically since we first see them, we know from things Willow said that's not always been entirely the case, nor does he ever really ignore her in the same way that her parents and the other students do (with the exception of "The Pack.")

Keanoite

11-21-2007, 08:34 AM

not arguing, just questioning, cause i dont get how this fits into the theory (and so sorry that this is off topic, im just curious). what about xander? he continuosly ignored her, and yet she liked him.

Yeah I'm with RH, I never said she responded to people who pay her romantically positive attention just positive. Even when she cheated with Xander she only reacted after he initiated it. She had feelings for him for years but she still didn't pursue

Joyce Summers

11-21-2007, 09:49 AM

Yeah, true. I mean she always like ogled him from afar, but the only time she ever made some sort of a first move is in the Bronze in 'When she was bad' when she puts ice cream on her nose. But that was only after Xander had almost kissed her the night before. Poor insecure will.

Keanoite

11-21-2007, 09:59 AM

I know poor will. but it just goes to show that no matter how much you grow there will always be a fundamental part of you that cannot change

Buffy obsessed fan

11-21-2007, 12:25 PM

I'd have liked the episode if it weren't for Kennedy, the episode seems important in the run of things, with Willow at least, but I just hate Kennedy.

GATEGOD

12-13-2007, 07:24 PM

The Willow/Kennedy/Warren scene near the end of the episode when Willow breaks down crying and blames herself and talks about Tara's death Is one of the saddest scenes on the show, and one of her best. Saying that, how can someone HATE the episode. I really enjoyed it. Willow was perfect this episode and I loved it. :cry: such a sad scene

Kemy

12-14-2007, 07:28 AM

I watched the episode a couple if nights ago, not fond of it since you know being an avid W/T shipper that episode isn't pleasant to watch.

But its very well acted, probably very demanding on Alyson, even Amy made a good villain and had that great creepy vibe. One of the few times I wasn't compelled to see if punching Warren through the tv screen could work.

The ending, ugh beautiful but too sad to watch too often, even after all that time Willow was as devoted to Tara as ever.

Now for the bad part. Kennedy. Nuff said in any other instance but in this episode shes like the mopey teenager that you have to take shopping with you and ends up yapping the entire time. And can you say pushy? god shes 17 and dealing with the most powerful Witch on Earth who's been through Hell after Tara's death and Kennedys acting like she owns Willow already, that gun really should have gone off in the last scene. Oh don't look at me like that, its not like Buffy and the others would really have missed her.

Anyhoo yes good episode but the W/K is too bothersome.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-14-2007, 09:28 AM

<sigh> (Goes to check medicine cabinet again, grumbling, "Gonna have to start buying these things by the truckload, looks like...")

Edit:

<sigh> (Goes to check medicine cabinet again, grumbling, "Gonna have to start buying these things by the truckload, looks like...")

Comments on this post
Kemy agrees: Upset stomach?

No, headache... :drunk:

Edit:

%#@$$^!! Automerged doublepost....

GATEGOD

12-14-2007, 02:20 PM

Atleast someone liked the Willow/Kennedy scene ^_^

Kemy

12-14-2007, 02:43 PM

Sorry Rowan but you're poor head isn't going to get any rest, as long as I draw breath I shall hate Kennedy as vocally as possible :p

GATEGOD

12-14-2007, 02:43 PM

Why she was so sweet in this episode

Kemy

12-14-2007, 02:56 PM

Yes like some bratty little niece or something, doesn't make her any more bearable, any character development she had went right out the window when she gave the First all it needed to drive Chloe to suicide soon after, degrading and humiliating the other Potentials when she wasn't even as good a person as half of them, she'd been any more of a bitch they wouldn't have needed the First to pick off the Potentials.

GATEGOD

12-14-2007, 03:08 PM

Umm person who is making no sense... Yes.. You. She was training them, turning them into fighters, that was her job...

Did you even know that?

All the first can do is talk ... so I guess Chloe is pretty weak if she had to take her own life then tell someone it wouldn't shut up...

Kennedy in this episode all she was trying to do was help Willow... Your favorite character and yet you hated her for it... wow..

I bet you liked Amy the person who was causing Willow all this pain and heartache, at the same time your hating the person who was trying to make it stop.

Bravo.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-14-2007, 10:23 PM

Sorry Rowan but you're poor head isn't going to get any rest, as long as I draw breath I shall hate Kennedy as vocally as possible :p

So what else is new? Virtually every thread on every board I've seen sooner or later degenerates into either an "I hate ________" thread or a "Spike! Spuffy! Squeee!!!" thread. Or both at the same time.

Blondie Bear

12-14-2007, 11:37 PM

I hate Kennedy!

Spike! Me + Spike! Squeee!

Gotcha covered. :thumbsup:

GATEGOD

12-14-2007, 11:49 PM

Good so you just proved every Kennedy hater is stupid and we can move on.

Willow was sad this episode by what Amy did to her, how come they never brought Amy back up again ? Did they?

Rowan Hawthorn

12-14-2007, 11:50 PM

I hate Kennedy!

Spike! Me + Spike! Squeee!

Gotcha covered. :thumbsup:

SEE WHAT I MEAN?!:lmao:

Kemy

12-15-2007, 07:19 AM

Good so you just proved every Kennedy hater is stupid and we can move on.

Willow was sad this episode by what Amy did to her, how come they never brought Amy back up again ? Did they?

And here I thought anyone who could see past the contrived and unnecessary inclusion of Kennedy where she was neither needed or wanted simply to draw in the larger male demographic for the lesbian appeal to boost the ratings of a poorly thought out season was more a mark of intelligence than stupidty...

And Amy plays an important role in Season 8, continuing her role as a magical villain and rival to Willow.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-15-2007, 09:17 AM

And here I thought anyone who could see past the contrived and unnecessary inclusion of Kennedy where she was neither needed or wanted simply to draw in the larger male demographic for the lesbian appeal to boost the ratings of a poorly thought out season was more a mark of intelligence than stupidty...

You know, I really don't agree that disliking any particular character is necessarily stupid (we all have our likes and dislikes, even if the Kennedy-haters go about as far over the top as any group I've ever seen,) but if that's the rationale you drew for the character's presence, then you might want to rethink your other conclusion there, is all I gotta say...

GATEGOD

12-15-2007, 09:56 AM

Why would you think that the only reason they included her was to boost ratings... that is stupid on your part.
Did they add Tara to boost ratings too? :lmao: She served a purpose in the story throughout the latter half of season 7 by being with and helping Willow aswell as training the girls who couldn't fight.

Yet you hated her for helping Willow and training the other girls to fight so they could live... That is a poor argument then on your part, plus with your view that she was only their for 'the lesbian appeal' is contrived by you just to have another reason to hate her!

Blondie Bear

12-15-2007, 01:14 PM

Good so you just proved every Kennedy hater is stupid and we can move on.

For the love of St. Peter, do NOT make this thread devolve into ad-hominem attacks. It's just immature. I was being SARCASTIC; I thought Rowan's comment was accurate and funny and therefore made sure the thread conformed to his/her (sorry, darlin', I don't know which you are!) expectations TO GET A LAUGH.

And in the case that your comment wasn't directed at me (which it appeared to be, being situated directly below my post), well, we still don't want to start a "You stupid" "No, you stupid" fight because they're just . . . well, stupid.

GATEGOD

12-15-2007, 06:02 PM

lol I was kidding, and said to move on, and you came back to blow it up.... Why?

I said we should drop the Kennedy hating and talk about the episode, yet everyone still continues.....

Blondie Bear

12-15-2007, 06:44 PM

Okay, now I'm confused, GateGod. Will you please specify who you're talking to, especially if it's not the person who posted directly above you?

GATEGOD

12-15-2007, 06:55 PM

lol I'm telling every member of the board to stop telling me how much Kennedy is stupid and how much they hate her, and start talking about the episode ^.^

lol

Blondie Bear

12-15-2007, 07:51 PM

I'll bet if it was a character you didn't like or didn't care about, you wouldn't be having issues. I think everyone has a right to voice their opinions about a character, and since she was such a big part of the episode, discussion of her IS discussion of the episode.

GATEGOD

12-15-2007, 08:03 PM

But I think she was greatest in this episode and her loyalty and deep affection for Willow is what lead us to where we are now, with Willow still being alive.
I think that is a pretty big, omg thank god you where there... Sure someone else could have been there, but she was, So she deserves credit for saving Willow.
People keep saying blah blah blah I hate her and leaving it at that is pointless and stupid, and degrades the point lol ^_^

LittleMissLikesToFight

12-16-2007, 02:35 PM

whenever i see these discussions i get sooo intimidated! I never feel like i have something wonderfully provocative to say on the subject, but just my opinions. well, intimidated no more! here's what i think:

I tried to like Kennedy, i did. The first time through I hated her, and then watching it when i got the box set i tried so hard to find some redeeming qualities.

She was just so... off to me. I dunno. Her personality threw me, and i can't really explain why. But i never really believed she cared that much about willow. I mean... she seemed like that bratty little kid who wanted what she wanted, and that was willow in a lustful way, and then it wasnt really believable when all of a sudden shes talking all this mushy crap. I dunno. It just came out of nowhere and i didnt actually SEE those emotions grow.

She also just didn't seem willow's type.

And yes, i guess in real life the time is a while after Tara but still, i have a friend who lost her boyfriend to cancer 3 years ago and she still mourns over him every day, and hasnt dated anybody. I guess it all depends on the person but i still felt like it was too fast, especially for how in love Willow was with Tara.

Oh and to what someone said about the Xander/Willow relationship... if you wanna talk soulmates, i always thought they were more than anything (even if not on a romantic level but i wish they were). And hey, in The Wish they were together so maybe it was their "true feelings" coming out (at least at that point in time).

And i also thought Kennedy was so full of herself when training the girls. be hard on them, sure, call them maggots? I was like Kennedy, shut the crap up.

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 02:38 PM

And where back to talking about Kennedy. Fine. ^_^

I still feel Kennedy saving Willow's life in this episode should count for idk..... everything!!!

Kemy

12-16-2007, 02:39 PM

She was just so... off to me. I dunno. Her personality threw me, and i can't really explain why. But i never really believed she cared that much about willow. I mean... she seemed like that bratty little kid who wanted what she wanted, and that was willow in a lustful way, and then it wasnt really believable when all of a sudden shes talking all this mushy crap. I dunno. It just came out of nowhere and i didnt actually SEE those emotions grow.

And i also thought Kennedy was so full of herself when training the girls. be hard on them, sure, call them maggots? I was like Kennedy, shut the crap up.

Summed up very nicely. :) Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. And don't feel intimidated, you managed fine. :)

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 02:44 PM

So none of you care that Kennedy was just trying to help Willow and did so. And you didn't care that she was given the job of training the girls, Buffy was there when she said these things, buffy said much worse, yet we all love her. Kennedy did her job, and trained the girls. Most of them are alive because of it probably. I could care less how she acted to the girls, she did help. And in this episode Saved Willow!!!!!!!!

I guess I just don;t have a hateful way about me towards characters who did good things and helped people :cry: idk why

LittleMissLikesToFight

12-16-2007, 02:45 PM

again, i had a hard time believing Kennedy could be the one to save her life. It just seemed so... contrived. It irked me. Maybe it was just the writing. i don't know.

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 02:46 PM

again, i had a hard time believing Kennedy could be the one to save her life. It just seemed so... contrived. It irked me. Maybe it was just the writing. i don't know.

But she did even if you can't believe it SHE DID!!!!

Kemy

12-16-2007, 02:48 PM

And you fail to realise it was Kennedy who endangered Willow's life in the first place. Doesn't matter if I save someone who fell off a cliff if I was the person who shoved them off in the first place etc

She may have had good intentions but she went about it in the wrong way, arrogant and brattish with little or no true regard for everyones feelings and personal space.

She was above herself, thought she was better than Buffy, even had something nasty and condescending to say right to Buffys face first thing through the frikkin' door and was half expecting Willow to sleep with her the first night.

Just insufferable.

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 02:52 PM

She never thought she was better then Buffy in the beginning she was all about how great Buffy was and what Buffy did when she killed the uber vamp.

[And you fail to realise it was Kennedy who endangered Willow's life in the first place] ... That is a stupid way to look at what happened. Amy was the one who put a spell on Willow, Willow was the one who killed warren, Willow was the one who brought out Warren in herself, Amy was the one who didn't stop the spell.

Kennedy was the one who told willow everything would be okay and brought her back from the edge. She never endangered her life, how the hell can you think that. Amy cast the spell Willow killed Warren, what did Kennedy do Kiss her... omg can no one see what I'm saying :cry:

Kemy

12-16-2007, 02:57 PM

And its entirely possible that without such a strong emotional catalyst that the Glamour may only have made Willow say...feel guilty about the calories in a slightly more extravagant breakfast cereal she has instead. Or not even worked at all, Kennedy caused probably the most painful thing to Willow resurface and endangered her, and everyone else Willow may have hurt through taking on Warren's shovanism.

If she'd backed off or concentrated on you know, going on that outing and trying to save the world like she was supposed to it would all never have happened.

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 03:01 PM

haha Reading your posts are hilarious. Kennedy had no idea here was a spell on Willow, so she couldn't have done anything about it. She was furthering there relationship and Willow seemed to like it, she didn't pull away back off nothing. She even said it was nice... How can you not see that Kennedy didn't do it to willow AMY did.
Kennedy saved Willow!

Kemy

12-16-2007, 03:06 PM

And it was a poor decision on the writer's parts to bring Kennedy in and contrive a storyline around her that way, as its been stated above its not really very believable.

All she did was kiss her. About the most uninspired lazy ass way someones ever been saved.

LittleMissLikesToFight

12-16-2007, 03:16 PM

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 03:34 PM

And sure, Kennedy didn't know there was a spell but she was still the one who caused the issue, it doesn't take away from that.

Whatever I blame Amy the person who cast the spell but fine, you all can blame the character you hate.

LittleMissLikesToFight

12-16-2007, 03:52 PM

I'm not saying she's fully to blame, of course Amy is to blame as well, but Kennedy was the catalyst.

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 03:55 PM

lol no she wasn't. Willow kissed her just as much as Kennedy engaged the Kiss. If you really think in those terms then it's Willows fault. I don't so I think it's all on Amy.

Blondie Bear

12-16-2007, 04:08 PM

I think, like so many things in this season, this relationship was rushed. There wasn't time to properly develop the relationship; the writers really only had this one episode, and I think (though I LOVE the Buffy writers) that they dropped the ball on this one. Especially if they wanted us to like Kennedy. She came across as a pushy, self-centered brat who didn't care so much about Willow, but about her own desires. It felt like (let me emphasize that this is MY OPINION) she was helping Willow mostly because she wanted Willow back, not because being Warren was tearing Willow up. She didn't really understand what Willow had gone through, losing Tara and almost destroying the world, so she trivialized it and ignored Willow's own feelings in favor of her wants.

If given more time, like at least as much time as they had to develop Willow and Tara, maybe they could have worked the relationship better, made it more believable, made Kennedy less of a "bitca," but unfortunately the writers took on too much for the season and it fell through.

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 06:24 PM

Well I watched all 7 seasons in the past month or two, and I liked Kennedy so I can't understand everyones hatred for her.

white avenger

12-16-2007, 07:41 PM

Just so everyone knows, this never started out as a slug Kennedy thread. Though I have little love for the girl (she would be the Slayer I would pick to guard the hellmouth in Siberia if there were one there, and if there weren't, I would assign her there just in case one should develop), I was more concerned with what I thought of as the REAL subject of the episode, namely the Spike-getting -his-chip-removed segment, which I thought didn't get nearly enough focus, considering how important it was to the rest of the season, and on into Angel Season 5.

Having said that, I have thoroughly enjoyed the Kennedy bashing. Feel free to continue as long as you might care to.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-16-2007, 07:52 PM

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 07:58 PM

From what I've seen and read, any inconsistencies in Kennedy's character can probably be blamed on one of the directors, whom Iyari mentioned in one interview kept pushing her to "give me more bitch!" I've read all of the shooting scripts, and, while the lines are essentially the same (except for some that never made it into the final cut,) the character wasn't written that way. Oddly enough, most of the character traits people cite as being the reasons they hate her are exactly the same as those we've seen in every other Slayer on the show: Outspoken, irreverent, pushy, headstrong, and cocky.

I guess I just like Outspoken, irreverent, pushy, headstrong, cocky, and cute characters.:cheering: But really, I've recently re watched the episodes she was in and found little faults against her except for her outbursts against Faith and Buffy in one episode. Other then that she was a strong character who could pull the slayers together and get them through a fight, I always thought these were good character traits.
Eh, plus I feel to hate one character so much as you people do is irrational lol.

I was more concerned with what I thought of as the REAL subject of the episode, namely the Spike-getting -his-chip-removed segment, which I thought didn't get nearly enough focus, considering how important it was to the rest of the season, and on into Angel Season 5.

It was a very short segment in my mind because Willow's story was so powerful and sad. But that part of the story you mention was a very important part. And did elevate Spike's character allowing him to do more good so to speak without having him being on a leash and not able to hurt humans.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-16-2007, 08:17 PM

Having said that, I have thoroughly enjoyed the Kennedy bashing.
Good for you. I've been trying to avoid bashing people personally, regardless of how off the deep end I may consider their viewpoint, but a lack of any real substantial discussion tends to end up with threads that turn that way eventually. Check out some of the Spike-bashing threads on the 'net if you want to see just how nasty things can turn (and, IMO, there's a character who was "unnecessarily" "shoe-horned" into Season 7 - to the point where the story of "Spikey, the Little Vampire Who Could" pretty much overshadowed the real main characters' stories.)

Bottom line, the idea that one character or the other was "unnecessarily" put into the story is ridiculous on the face of it. It's a fictional universe; the only character who's actually necessary to the story is Buffy herself, no matter which other one may be someone else's favorite. Willow's mine, and it would have made me sad to think I'd never see the character again, but the fact remains, she could have been written out half a dozen times and the 'verse would have continued, albeit in a somewhat different direction.

Edit:

For the love of St. Peter, do NOT make this thread devolve into ad-hominem attacks. It's just immature. I was being SARCASTIC; I thought Rowan's comment was accurate and funny and therefore made sure the thread conformed to his/her (sorry, darlin', I don't know which you are!) expectations TO GET A LAUGH.
I'm a guy, and I thought your post was pretty funny.

And in the case that your comment wasn't directed at me (which it appeared to be, being situated directly below my post), well, we still don't want to start a "You stupid" "No, you stupid" fight because they're just . . . well, stupid.

I agree. There's a tendency for both sides of any argument to get completely over-the-top. I understand it sometimes, though, because it's frustrating when there's little or nothing more substantial to a stated position than "because I feel that way, nyah!"

Blondie Bear

12-16-2007, 09:26 PM

GATEGOD

12-16-2007, 09:30 PM

To everyone who's been going "I don't understand why you must all complain about Kennedy!", let me share a little something about psychology with you. We are all trapped within our own heads. We have opinions and feelings and thoughts within our heads, and in order to keep from going nuts with them, we express them in words. As a pleasant side-effect, other people hear/read our words and react to them, causing a personal connection, especially if they agree with us. Then this little thing called "self radicalization" starts: we express our thoughts, they react favorably to our thoughts and add something we might not have thought of, and we process this new information and respond as well.

So basically what we're doing is making personal connections with people who share our opinions (and yes, this particular opinion is something silly about a character on a TV show, but some of us are passionate about it). There's nothing "stupid" about this; it's basic human psychology.
And it's what these boards are all about.

Oh my god. Fine, then all of you great and noble people who I cherish so much. Why don't you all run along and create a new Topic called We HATE Kennedy, and leave the people who don't hate her alone.

Now

I was more concerned with what I thought of as the REAL subject of the episode, namely the Spike-getting -his-chip-removed segment, which I thought didn't get nearly enough focus, considering how important it was to the rest of the season, and on into Angel Season 5.

It was a very short segment in my mind because Willow's story was so powerful and sad. But that part of the story you mention was a very important part. And did elevate Spike's character allowing him to do more good so to speak without having him being on a leash and not able to hurt humans.

:cheering:

Blondie Bear

12-16-2007, 09:46 PM

Sigh. I give up. Some people just refuse to listen to reason.

I did like the part of the episode with Spike and also wish there had been more time dedicated to it.

Kemy

12-17-2007, 07:31 AM

agreed Kemy! the point is, i had never said she DIDNT save willow, i just said the way it happened seemed very over the top and just not believable for the situation.

And sure, Kennedy didn't know there was a spell but she was still the one who caused the issue, it doesn't take away from that.

I know, I wasn't disagreeing with her having eventually saved Willow but yes as you say she was the one that caused it first.

So its half saving her, half tidying up her own mess really. :p

codyw1

01-11-2008, 02:10 AM

I thought it was a pretty good ep, myself, and Kennedy comes across okay.

The problem is the lack of any follow-up. After this, they're just "a couple", yet we never see any real reason WHY.

Too much going on in the season, and it fell through the cracks, IMHO.

Bangelxx

02-27-2008, 09:00 AM

I don't DESPISE kennedy quite like keanoite....LOL but I don't like her thats for sure. Like WA said, Kennedy is 15 for gods sake!!!ew, ew and DOUBLE EW!!! I find myself missing Tara more than ever!

Rowan Hawthorn

02-27-2008, 10:09 AM

I don't DESPISE kennedy quite like keanoite....LOL but I don't like her thats for sure. Like WA said, Kennedy is 15 for gods sake!!!

Did you not read the rest of the thread? Kennedy's age is addressed.

GATEGOD

02-27-2008, 02:23 PM

Kennedy was 19. Willow was early 20's.

bob6666

04-18-2008, 10:42 PM

there was talk that in season 7 xander and willow would get together. but joss did not was to ofend the gay commuinty, would a xander and willow do that and would it be beliveable.

Starlet

04-19-2008, 04:20 PM

I don't like Willow/Kennedy relationship but I loved this episode!

And I could say it's not so much concentrated on Willow/Kennedy as on Willow herself. It's about how she feels about everything that happened.
How she's missing Tara and not letting herself admit she's dead, how bad she feels because she killed people, how(after Amy's spell) she's afraid she may really become Warren and do things he did.
For me it's just Willow episode very well acted by Alyson( she's amazing actress).

Reply to bob6666 post: Joss planned bring Willow and Xander together? Never heard about it! I'm glad he didn't. I always liked how they had that true,solid,friend love for each other. If they became a couple, it would kinda ruin things for me...

kiben

05-18-2008, 08:19 PM

I, too did not like Kennedy at all. I found her to be way too arrogant and bratty.

But another question...maybe it's been answered before (I'm new here), but when we see Amy, was that actually Amy or was that The First? It's been bothering me for awhile. I would suspect it was the First because of the comment about Kennedy being a potential, which Amy wouldn't even know about.

Rowan Hawthorn

05-18-2008, 08:41 PM

I, too did not like Kennedy at all. I found her to be way too arrogant and bratty.

*Sigh...*

But another question...maybe it's been answered before (I'm new here), but when we see Amy, was that actually Amy or was that The First? It's been bothering me for awhile. I would suspect it was the First because of the comment about Kennedy being a potential, which Amy wouldn't even know about.

It was Amy. The First could only take the form of people who had died, which Amy hadn't, unless she died after "Doublemeat Palace", which was the last time we saw her previously - and also, Willow slapped her a good one at the Wicca group meeting. Not something you can do with a being who's incorporeal.

SintiKid

05-18-2008, 08:41 PM

kiben

05-19-2008, 10:14 AM

Ohh yea... thanks. It would have been cool if it were the First.