Discussion of Episode 8:09 "No Future For You # 4" Released 12/05/07 (Dark Horse) [Archive]

Ronin

12-06-2007, 10:56 PM

I liked this arc a lot, even more than the first one.

I was, however, angry at the way Giles reacted to Buffy. I wanted to reach inside the comic and smack him. I mean, is he still bitter about what Buffy said to him in season 7, about having learned all she needed to from him, and Spike saying that she had surpassed him? If so, then he’s acting petty and childish. I wish that Buffy would have really laid into him, instead of just feeling hurt and being passive. This, after all, isn’t the first time he’s undermined her. How can the slayer orginazation operate efficiently if Giles is keeping Buffy out of the loop on some pretty significant matters? And when did they start referring to Giles as the Boss, or did I misread that and Xander was referring to Buffy?

Except for that one thing I thought this was a great issue. I can’t wait for the next one.

goldenboy

12-07-2007, 07:54 AM

Yeah, I hear ya on the Giles thing. It's like there are certain traits, behaviors that characters can never quite move beyond. Giles so often feels the need to protect Buffy, withhold information, do 'the dirty work'. And it gets him in trouble more often than not.

There was something exciting about Giles and Faith leaving the fold like that though.

sosa lola

12-07-2007, 08:23 AM

And when did they start referring to Giles as the Boss, or did I misread that and Xander was referring to Buffy?

.

Xander was talking about Buffy because when he said "The boss needs an alone time." Buffy answers, "Is there another kind?"

That was one powerful arc. I wasn't that interested in Faith's character before No Future For You, IMO it's the best Faith episode so far. I have enjoyed the continuation of the Buffy/Giles conflict that started since S7, I wish we get to see the why in Giles' actions though, I don't like when the writers get one sided, leaving us sympathize with Buffy, and making the other character the bad guy, I like to sympathize and understand both parties.

Clem Rocks

12-07-2007, 11:04 AM

So Twilight was floating feet guy! =O

and wow, almost couldn't read that issue because it was so gory x_X

Allycat

12-07-2007, 11:44 AM

Another great issue! NFFY definitely beats LWH.

Like sosa lola, I think that NFFY was the best Faith story so far. The Faith/Giles dynamic is an interesting and fresh one. And the conflict between Giles and Buffy, further pushes her to be a leader, so that's good.

Of course, the most interesting thing about the issue is probably the reveal at the end. Twilight looks a bit like the Redeemer from Spawn or Darth Revan from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. And he's really creepy!

tommy

12-08-2007, 05:42 AM

Just got it.

Giles found a useful spell in that book pretty fast, huh? It's a wonder anybody is still alive if you can kill a man with a few words in the right order. I was thinking last issue that Roden could have been waiting with a gun when he teleported Buffy in; shot her while she was being sick. Sometimes it feels like the good guys win too easy.

It's a shame that Giles and Buffy aren't on speaking terms. I'm not quite sure how it came to that. I'd like to see them have a proper talk soon to patch things up - we haven't really seen them together in Season 8 yet - and hopefully we'll continue to see Faith regularly now that she and Giles have entered into a partnership.

Clem Rocks

12-08-2007, 08:02 AM

Giles found a useful spell in that book pretty fast, huh?

Now that you mention it, it is a bit funny he found that spell straight away....o_O

It's a shame that Giles and Buffy aren't on speaking terms. I'm not quite sure how it came to that.

I think Buffy's problem with Giles is the same as Faith's problem with him. Faith was jealous that Buffy is his main girl when she found out she was on a mission to save her, and Buffy's upset cause she thinks she's no longer Giles' main girl because he is working with someone they can't trust instead of working with her.

Here's some questions for you:

1. Now that we know there's more military involved than just Voll's group, do you think Twilight's followers were mentioned in Season 7? In the episode where Riley showed up with his wife, his wife told Willow that they had some mystics then OD'ed on the black magic like she did, and that she was strong to come back from it. Now assuming that meant they went all black eyed and veiny, do you think Roden could have been involved with them? Not everyone when they get alot of magic goes black eyed and veiny, i don't remember it ever happening to Amy, and i know it didn't happen to Giles when he came back to fight Willow (although that can be argued that he wasn't using black magic). And if the military and mystics from that episode are working for Twilight, and knowing that it has been said that Riley might be in season 8 at some point, do you think Riley could be one of Twilight's followers?

2. Seeing as it now looks like Twilight is floaty feet guy from issue 1, do you think that Twilight can fly/float for a long time without needing a break, or is the mountain that he is on (That looks like a volcano to me) pretty close to the Slayer's castle?

3. Did we ever find out what happened to Voll? One minute he was talking to Buffy, the next he's never heard of again. Did the slayers capture him? kill him? let him go? or do we just don't know yet?

tommy

12-08-2007, 10:33 AM

No clue about Riley. It looks to me like Twilight can suspend himself in mid-air. Not sure if he descended from high above when Lieutenant Molter called out to him, or maybe he has an invisibility cloak, or he can turn into mist. I assume they let Voll go after LWH. If they took him hostage, that's just asking for an immediate attack by the soldier boys, and they probably wanted to get out of the enemy base quickly, out of danger, so they didn't stick around to interrogate him. Some things need explaining.

In NFFY part 1, Buffy said she was getting swallowed by a monster every night. Sort of a griffon thing that says "The queen is dead. Long live the queen." What's that about?

goldenboy

12-08-2007, 11:06 AM

Yet another premonitory dream maybe, from Buffy's perspective. Buffy's the (slayer) 'queen' so to speak. It's all sort of referring back to Sex Pistols lyrics..."God save the queen", "no future, no future for you"...

In retrospect, seems like it all had to do with Gigi. She had slayer dreams. And she was having bad dreams too, wasn't she?

tommy

12-08-2007, 11:09 AM

I'm just wondering if this Twilight guy is putting these nightmares into her head, or maybe it's just a slayer thing.

Lyri

12-08-2007, 11:37 AM

just got this this morning, and i gotta say, i loved how they wrapped everything up. i liked that it was actually Faith that killed Gigi, but she immediatly felt bad about it and demanded that Roden fix her. it was kinda like a throw back to S3, when Faith killed the D. Mayor, but instead of throwing her off the deep end like it did back then, it kinda brought her back into the light, whith her social working idea.

i liked Giles' reveal, and the fatc that he killed Roden with one of his own spells. but i admit, he did find it pretty darn quickly.

the reveal of 'Twilight' was great. it's awesome to see the bad guy 'in the flesh' i can't wait for issue #11 now, for that big ass knock down fight.

i wanna know just who exactly Twilight's working for/with. is he/she/it part of the military? is Riley and/or Sam involved?

Clem Rocks

12-08-2007, 11:42 AM

Not sure if he descended from high above when Lieutenant Molter called out to him

Maybe he fell from the sky. "Twilight is falling" and all that

Tranquillity

12-09-2007, 01:22 AM

Awesome issue!
On the first read i was a bit blase about it but then i found i couln't stop thinking about it and subsequently re-read it numerous times. There was so much to like about it as so many questions put forward. I was surprised that Roden and Gigi were both dispatched so quickly and so bloodily and i did feel kind of bad for Gigi. Faith was perfect - her reaction to the fight all gutsy and ballsy and her reaction to the death, regretful and sorrow.

Love how Giles and Faith seem to have come to an understanding. I is interesting that this happens when Giles is on the periphery of the group, like two outsiders drawn together in a common purpose. I get the impression that things haven't been quite right with Buffy and Giles for quite a while - probably as a ongoing legacy of their difficulties in season 7 - hopefully we'll get more information on this soon. I do feel for Buffy too - that expression on her face when she asks what other kind is there other than 'alone' time is just heartbreaking. Surrounded by friends and junior slayer and she still feels alone! Will she ever feel not alone? (I think somebody needs a big hug from Spike :))

As for twilight well all i can say is that it is very intreaguing. He (it) seems magic, what with the floating and all, yet wants to 'bring the age of magic to a close'. It would seem that the story is building to tie in with the context of Fray which is really cool. I'm not sure i understand Twilight's strategy though -(on the last page) who are the 'victors' he talks of and why does it suit him to have them remove themselves from the chessboard if he wants them to wage war for him? weird.

nerd4hire

12-09-2007, 09:10 PM

Lieutenant Molter says there's an "Inside man" at castle Summers, so who's the traitor, I wonder?

Hope it's not Renee. I like her. It would fit though. Xander's problem with women, and all.

Keanoite

12-09-2007, 09:32 PM

What about Satsu? be interesting...in love with the enemy...although Buffy has played that card a little too much

Tranquillity

12-10-2007, 02:59 AM

Lieutenant Molter says there's an "Inside man" at castle Summers, so who's the traitor, I wonder?

Hope it's not Renee. I like her. It would fit though. Xander's problem with women, and all.

WOW! i have read this issue a dozen times and had just sort of glossed over that important piece of information! i suppose i'd just sort of dismissed it as some sort of detatched informant or spy but a traitor on the inside is so much more interesting. I hope it's not Renee that would be horrible for Xander. Satsu is an interesting option though - she does seem to be prominent in future issues if the covers are anything to go by (not that they always are...)

Allycat

12-10-2007, 06:53 AM

I doubt that it's any of the Scoobies so that rules out Xander, Giles, Buffy, Faith, Dawn, and Willow. Of course, Twilight has worked with mystical allies before, but it does seem unlikely to me that he has another Slayer working for him. My bet is on Andrew being the inside man. Perhaps he's doing it unknowingly. It would make sense if the Immortal was somehow involved.

tommy

12-10-2007, 04:59 PM

I glossed over the line too. A spy on the inside would be interesting but she didn't actually say inside the castle living among the goody-goody slayers. We'll see.

I figured it was just a throwaway line to move the dialog along with them knowing Buffy isn't dead, like how Wolfram and Hart always seemed to know everything that happened everywhere instantaneously. "Our sources tell us Angel survived the attack", blah blah.

nerd4hire

12-10-2007, 07:07 PM

What the heck. Might as well have a close up look at it.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/manontheinside.jpg

Hey, Lieutenant Molter, has a mole. That's kind of Austin Powers.

Allycat

12-11-2007, 04:14 AM

Quick question: is Lt Molter supposed to be African-American?

alexa

12-17-2007, 01:45 AM

Finally got this today :D Got the cool variant cover, Jo one coming soon.
Wasn't actually that impressed.. prolly my least favourite issue from the Faith arc. It was good, but I suppose I was just really bothered by the split between Buffy and Giles.. and even Buffy and Faith. I was hoping there would be a reconciliation of some kind, but we're just back to where we were and now Giles is distancing himself from Buffy. I can sort of understand why.. if he thinks the darker sides of the job need to be done, and would rather not have Buffy killing humans? Or he's just hiding his own dark self from her. Maybe something happened between now and Chosen... either way I don't like being annoyed at Giles.

Twilight looks interesting, the storyline resembles season 4s a little. The whole magic vs military kinda thing. Still don't quite understand his motives.. he doesn't look too normal himself.

Guess I should read it a few more times, might start to like it more.

Oh, and I hope the mole is Renee! Free up for some Bander action ;)

And I forgot to mention that I liked how Faith was projecting on Gigi during their fight. Like when she says 'because you know you haven't done anything to deserve it' - being treated as a friend. Sounds like Faith is talking about herself and her experiences with the Mayor 'maybe he does - maybe he don't' - really care about her.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-17-2007, 06:14 AM

Twilight looks interesting, the storyline resembles season 4s a little. The whole magic vs military kinda thing. Still don't quite understand his motives.. he doesn't look too normal himself.

I'm not sure where this is headed, either, but you can see a lot of the same thing in Real Life: Twilight seems to be against magic-users, but at the same time has no apparent qualms about using it him(her?)self; not a lot of difference there from real-world people who fight tooth and nail to disarm the public, claiming that only the police and military should be "allowed" to have weapons, but who think it's okay for them to own guns themselves, or hire someone else to carry for them.

Keanoite

12-17-2007, 12:47 PM

I'm not sure where this is headed, either, but you can see a lot of the same thing in Real Life: Twilight seems to be against magic-users, but at the same time has no apparent qualms about using it him(her?)self; not a lot of difference there from real-world people who fight tooth and nail to disarm the public, claiming that only the police and military should be "allowed" to have weapons, but who think it's okay for them to own guns themselves, or hire someone else to carry for them.

I haven't got the issue yet so I don't know if this was explained in the latest issue but was Roden aware of Twilights plans to bring magic to it's knees? Just wondering cuz Roden was a warlock, he seemed pretty powerful too. Supporting an entity that essentially wants to ruin your existence seems a bit mad, although I suppose it wouldn't be the first time on Buffy.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-17-2007, 01:09 PM

I haven't got the issue yet so I don't know if this was explained in the latest issue but was Roden aware of Twilights plans to bring magic to it's knees?
Apparently, since he mentions being promised "clemency from the coming purge".

Just wondering cuz Roden was a warlock, he seemed pretty powerful too. Supporting an entity that essentially wants to ruin your existence seems a bit mad, although I suppose it wouldn't be the first time on Buffy.

Or in the Real World, for that matter; lots of people seem to have a blind spot that doesn't allow them to recognize that once the current personae non grata are eliminated, they might be the next group who aren't "the right sort."

Keanoite

12-17-2007, 01:18 PM

Apparently, since he mentions being promised "clemency from the coming purge".

Or in the Real World, for that matter; lots of people seem to have a blind spot that doesn't allow them to recognize that once the current personae non grata are eliminated, they might be the next group who aren't "the right sort."

Their really going for the Nazi/Stalin theme aren't they? It was touched on in ANGEL, it will be interesting to see how it progresses

nerd4hire

12-17-2007, 01:27 PM

I think Joss is Hollywood Liberal, anti-militarism bent. It's bound to creep into his work. That's OK. He's only going to lose me if he starts doing Global Warming crap.

Keanoite

12-17-2007, 01:32 PM

I'm still intrigued but I just wonder what he will have to say about it that hasn't already been said and how will he make Twilight 3 dimensional? Playing this theme really runs the risk of him only being able to say that Twilight=very bad. Buffy villians nearly always have a depth that can be appreciated on some level. How do you get people to appreciate the Hitler type villian?

Rowan Hawthorn

12-17-2007, 02:17 PM

Their really going for the Nazi/Stalin theme aren't they? It was touched on in ANGEL, it will be interesting to see how it progresses

I don't know about that, necessarily; there have been lots of purges throughout history (the term is most often used in conjunction with the witch purges in Europe.)

Keanoite

12-17-2007, 02:29 PM

I don't know about that, necessarily; there have been lots of purges throughout history (the term is most often used in conjunction with the witch purges in Europe.)

Oh I agree about that but with such a topic comparisons will always be drawn to Nazi brand of hate. I don't know why but Roden reminded me of a sort of Goebelles type figure.

Rowan Hawthorn

12-17-2007, 02:49 PM

Keanoite

12-17-2007, 02:53 PM

Rowan Hawthorn

12-17-2007, 03:28 PM

Dunno, and I'm trying not to get too wrapped up in anticipating, yet. He could be drawing specific parallels, but it's too early. I'm going to wait and find out a little more about Twilight first.

GATEGOD

12-17-2007, 06:39 PM

Loved how Faith reacted to the situations she was faced with. Hopefully we'll see more of her!!
The fact that the bad guy thinks that Buffy still being alive is hilarious, because she obviously will one day kill him.
Just like she did to Adam!!! Or at least that is what I'd expect to happen. They can't kill Buffy...again :lmao:

Keanoite

12-17-2007, 07:05 PM

Allycat

12-22-2007, 09:49 AM

No question there's a fair comparison. Of course, once people reach a certain level of pathological hatred toward people who "ain't us", there's not a whole lot of difference between'em, anyway, whether they're Hitler, the KKK, the Inquisition, Al-Quaida, or what-have-you.

I don't mean to spark a US-bashing discussion here, but add to that the "War against Terror" and all the alleged 'terrorists' at Quantanamo Bay. Although it might still be wrong, it's certainly not as all-out-evil at the Nazi's. There's a degree of understandability to such actions. There's more examples, where if one group of people (group A) have suffered at the hands of another (group B), when the situation changes it invariably leads to parts or the entire group A oppressing/hating group B. Does anyone remember the conflict in Estonia, between the original people and ethnic Russians earlier this year? A completly understandable situation.

What I'm getting at is that such a deep-rooted hatred for something as we are lead to believe Twilight has usually stems from some place. I think that Twilight might turn out to be a Holtz-like character. He had every reason to hate Angel; I think there might be an incident in Twilight's past that justifies this crusade against magic.

Perhaps an incident that not only scarred him psychologically, but physically as well... perhaps in the facial area?

alexa

12-22-2007, 07:36 PM

Yeah it took me a while but I realized that people (or things) don't generally cover their entire body unless they are hiding something. Like Warren for example would maybe want to cover his entire body because he's skinless, but I doubt it's Warren. Would the scoobies have caused anything to do this to someone?

I actually found the Holtz storyline so boring most of time.. until Wesley got involved anyway. Seriously dude needed to get over himself and stop blaming everyone else for his issues, even if he was done wrong by 200 years ago. Bleh anyway, better not get started on that.:p