Flooded

[Happy57]

In this episode in the end the phone rings and Buffy says who is calling me everybody I know lives here!! And it is Angel calling .
Who told Angel Buffy died and who tolded Angel Buffy was alive ?
And what do we know about this meeting Angel?
Some where halfway to L.A .How did she get there by bus?

[VisionGuy]

Willow told him Buffy died in the Angel season 2 finale. Cordelia, who found out by Willow, told Angel that Buffy is alive in the season 3 episode Carpe Nocterm (sp?). Nothing is really known about the meeting they had, although there is a comic book that says what happened.

[Wanabee-slayer]

Willow told him Buffy died in the Angel season 2 finale. Cordelia, who found out by Willow, told Angel that Buffy is alive in the season 3 episode Carpe Nocterm (sp?). Nothing is really known about the meeting they had, although there is a comic book that says what happened.

There's a comic book? What's it called?

[Keanoite]

There's a comic book? What's it called?

Its called Reunion and it's written by Jane Espensen but it doesn't actually tell you what happened, it's just what the scoobies think might have happened. We're still in the dark about what happened, hope Joss clears that up some time:) and heres the link Reunion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/buffy/ecomics/reunion/index.shtml)

Edit:

In this episode in the end the phone rings and Buffy says who is calling me everybody I know lives here!! And it is Angel calling .
Who told Angel Buffy died and who tolded Angel Buffy was alive ?
And what do we know about this meeting Angel?
Some where halfway to L.A .How did she get there by bus?

A few things have always bothered me about this. In Buffy it's the afternoon when she gets the phone call but its the night time in Angel. Also Buffy says it was Angel on the phone but he was talking to Fred, now Cordy could have rang and then called Angel but the time that Buffy spent on the phone was only a few seconds where as on Angel the time for Cordy to call, realise its Buffy, go and get Angel and then Angel to speak to Buffy is a hell of a lot longer. Ideas anyone??

[VisionGuy]

A few things have always bothered me about this. In Buffy it's the afternoon when she gets the phone call but its the night time in Angel. Also Buffy says it was Angel on the phone but he was talking to Fred, now Cordy could have rang and then called Angel but the time that Buffy spent on the phone was only a few seconds where as on Angel the time for Cordy to call, realise its Buffy, go and get Angel and then Angel to speak to Buffy is a hell of a lot longer. Ideas anyone??

This bothered me too. I always figured that Willow talked to Cordy and Angel but then Angel called Buffy herself back sometime later during the day.

[Buffy obsessed fan]

A few things have always bothered me about this. In Buffy it's the afternoon when she gets the phone call but its the night time in Angel. Also Buffy says it was Angel on the phone but he was talking to Fred, now Cordy could have rang and then called Angel but the time that Buffy spent on the phone was only a few seconds where as on Angel the time for Cordy to call, realise its Buffy, go and get Angel and then Angel to speak to Buffy is a hell of a lot longer. Ideas anyone??

Hmm, that's a totally good point, no idea :p

[Blondie Bear]

I think with the meeting thing, we're not told because there's no way they could write a meeting that would satisfy everyone. No writing would be able to capture the emotion of it, so they left it up to our imaginations. And yes, that's frustrating, but I say go them. A good writer knows what not to show as well as what to show.

[Keanoite]

I think with the meeting thing, we're not told because there's no way they could write a meeting that would satisfy everyone. No writing would be able to capture the emotion of it, so they left it up to our imaginations. And yes, that's frustrating, but I say go them. A good writer knows what not to show as well as what to show.

I don't buy that. The writers on the show have handled more emotionally wrought situations...I mean just look a The Body, that captured grief in a way that no show or film in my opinion had ever done before...and Joss has said countless times that he writes what the audience needs not what pleases them...If he wrote to please the audience then Angel would have never of left and Tara would not have been shot...I think we didn't see it because of the network change...I wouldn't rule out a canon comic about it though

[TabulaRasa]

I buy it. The type of emotion in a scene like that, if they wrote it any way it would feel wrong to me. Like Angel going to Buffy, you would think powerful love scene. Angel can't do that, but that would not satisfy us, cause well we would still want it. Well it can't happen tho...there are just many ways us fans would like to have had it. So, I dunno, I think it's good it wasn't shown.

[Keanoite]

I buy it. The type of emotion in a scene like that, if they wrote it any way it would feel wrong to me. Like Angel going to Buffy, you would think powerful love scene. Angel can't do that, but that would not satisfy us, cause well we would still want it. Well it can't happen tho...there are just many ways us fans would like to have had it. So, I dunno, I think it's good it wasn't shown.

Why can't it happen though? Why couldn't Angel give the big love scene?
I know it would be what we had already scene with them more or less but I think we needed to see it. I don't believe for a second that it couldn't be written, Becoming part II and I will remember you prove that they can write the gut wrenching Buffy-Angel love scenes.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Why can't it happen though? Why couldn't Angel give the big love scene?
I know it would be what we had already scene with them more or less but I think we needed to see it. I don't believe for a second that it couldn't be written, Becoming part II and I will remember you prove that they can write the gut wrenching Buffy-Angel love scenes.

The fact that you cite two(and you could many more) episodes that have the gut wrenching emotional stuff shows why it's better as it is.
It would have been kinda 'same old same old'.

Obviously the changing of Networks was an issue in why it wasn't written, but do we really need another 42 minutes of 'I love you, but can't be with you' conversation?

No, it's perfect as it is, nothing told to us so we can imagine ourselves and I'll go out on a limb here and actually say 'I'd rule out a canon comic' on this.
I really don't think Joss sees it as something that needs to be developed.

[Keanoite]

but do we really need another 42 minutes of 'I love you, but can't be with you' conversation?

Honestly? YES!!! I love the ship, can't help it, I'm a glutton for punishment

I'll go out on a limb here and actually say 'I'd rule out a canon comic' on this.
I really don't think Joss sees it as something that needs to be developed.

I pretty much believe that too...but I kinda need to clutch at straws!

I want to stress that I do however have a problem with it being said that the writers couldn't write that scene...they have proved time and and again that they are more then capable at ripping out our guts out and showing them too us with what they write, maybe people don't want to see it but they can definitely do it.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Honestly? YES!!! I love the ship, can't help it, I'm a glutton for punishment



I pretty much believe that too...but I kinda need to clutch at straws!

I want to stress that I do however have a problem with it being said that the writers couldn't write that scene...they have proved time and and again that they are more then capable at ripping out our guts out and showing them too us with what they write, maybe people don't want to see it but they can definitely do it.

I agree that the writers can write anything that they want and it probably been an interesting episode but oh my gosh, it would have simply been IWRY with a different monster.

I think my life is pretty cool without it.

[Keanoite]

I agree that the writers can write anything that they want and it probably been an interesting episode but oh my gosh, it would have simply been IWRY with a different monster.

I think my life is pretty cool without it.

Again I repeat, glutton for punishment...another IWRY would be just fine by me. Mostly I just wanted to see how they would interact after it. Would he have known she was in Heaven? and I kinda want to know what happend after he found out, I know he went to Sri Lanka and then kicked the sh!te out of some monks but thats it.

[Blondie Bear]

And what would you have done if it was totally awkward, which I suspect it might have been? Part of the point of the season was, in (something close to) Joss' words, "I was done, what am I doing back?" Angel had moved on. Buffy was in a lot of pain, pain that Angel couldn't possibly understand.

I think it would have been a lot of awkward silence. At least it would have been if the writers had stayed true to the characters.

[Edmund Blackadder]

I hope she didn't tell him and that he hadn't known because that would take away from the Buffy/Spike stuff.

[Keanoite]

And what would you have done if it was totally awkward, which I suspect it might have been? Part of the point of the season was, in (something close to) Joss' words, "I was done, what am I doing back?" Angel had moved on. Buffy was in a lot of pain, pain that Angel couldn't possibly understand.

I think it would have been a lot of awkward silence. At least it would have been if the writers had stayed true to the characters.

I still want to know what happened, regardless of what it was. Buffy describes it as 'intense' and Angel need comfort food afterwards so I'm thinking a little more than awkward silences went on. Even if they smacked each other about for a few hours I want to know.

Edit:

I hope she didn't tell him and that he hadn't known because that would take away from the Buffy/Spike stuff.

I think she would expect him to know, and to be honest I think he did, just like Spike. They got what the scoobies didn't, slayers go to heaven! and I have this whole theory that Angel having been in hell for hundreds of years would kinda remember what it smelt like, and I would expect Buffy to still reek of it if she had been there and since she wasn't and so didn't reek he would have known!...it makes sense in my head!!!!

[Edmund Blackadder]

Hell Dimension.

As we know they know there are many different dimensions, so smell wouldn't be much of an issue.

All i'm saying is, she confides in Spike because the others can't take it. If she talks to Angel about it, then she has him and really that makes eveything she does with Spike pointless.

[Keanoite]

Hell Dimension.

As we know they know there are many different dimensions, so smell wouldn't be much of an issue.

All i'm saying is, she confides in Spike because the others can't take it. If she talks to Angel about it, then she has him and really that makes eveything she does with Spike pointless.

Knew you would point that out as soon as I posted it!

I don't think what she shared with Spike was pointless (you have NO idea how much it is costing me to say this!), she didn't have anyone else and he was there, he got here through those first few months after her return. Whether Angel knew or not doesn't change that

[Edmund Blackadder]

Knew you would point that out as soon as I posted it!

I don't think what she shared with Spike was pointless (you have NO idea how much it is costing me to say this!), she didn't have anyone else and he was there, he got here through those first few months after her return. Whether Angel knew or not doesn't change that

In real world terms Buffy was unable to be wih Angel because of the networks, but if we suspend belief for a moment and that was the real world, if Angel had known Buffy was in Heaven, do you really see it possible the events happened as they did.
It just doesn't work.

[Keanoite]

In real world terms Buffy was unable to be wih Angel because of the networks, but if we suspend belief for a moment and that was the real world, if Angel had known Buffy was in Heaven, do you really see it possible the events happened as they did.
It just doesn't work.

Even if they had been on the same networks he still would have been going back to L.A. and she was still going back to Hell, as she saw it, so yeah I do think it still would have played out the same way, unless we go completely mental and make it that Buffy goes to L.A. or Angel comes back to Sunnydale.

[Blondie Bear]

And again with the whole true-to-the-characters thing. You think Angel WOULDN'T come back after finding out everything Buffy was going through? He who professes to have only been in love with her EVER? If he was a real, feeling person, he would have come back at least long enough to get her back on her feet--and at the rate Buffy was going, it would have taken awhile.

But in the "outer" view, the networks couldn't let that happen and the writers had already played out the Buffy-Angel thing and needed to move the characters forward instead of back. Hence the not-showing and the assumption that the meeting, while it may have been "intense," was not as mushy as people may think it was.

[Keanoite]

And again with the whole true-to-the-characters thing. You think Angel WOULDN'T come back after finding out everything Buffy was going through? He who professes to have only been in love with her EVER? If he was a real, feeling person, he would have come back at least long enough to get her back on her feet--and at the rate Buffy was going, it would have taken awhile.

But in the "outer" view, the networks couldn't let that happen and the writers had already played out the Buffy-Angel thing and needed to move the characters forward instead of back. Hence the not-showing and the assumption that the meeting, while it may have been "intense," was not as mushy as people may think it was.

If you want to talk 'out of character' we can go right back to 'Forever'. Like you said, she was the only person he loved EVER and she begs him to stay and he doesn't? yeah that makes sense. I honestly think he would have known about the Heaven thing and like you said it doesn't make sense that he would just leave her go, so thats why I want to know what happened between them when they met. Personally I think there is a lot of Angel being out of character from season 3 on.

[Blondie Bear]

In "Forever," she admitted that him staying wouldn't be a good idea because of her neediness. It's possible that the same admission was made in "Flooded," because I'd think she's probably just as needy, if not more so. If she's vulnerable, she shouldn't be around him because her emotional needs might outrun her good sense, and then WHOOPS, we have Angelus again. If that's the case, I can see "intense" being a good word for that.

[Keanoite]

In "Forever," she admitted that him staying wouldn't be a good idea because of her neediness. It's possible that the same admission was made in "Flooded," because I'd think she's probably just as needy, if not more so. If she's vulnerable, she shouldn't be around him because her emotional needs might outrun her good sense, and then WHOOPS, we have Angelus again. If that's the case, I can see "intense" being a good word for that.

I'd be willing to go along with that but like I said I'd still rather know than guess.

[Blondie Bear]

Well, go scream at the networks for being idiots then beg Joss to put it in a comic. *shrug*