Discussion of "Angel: After the Fall # 2" Release 12/19/07 [Archive]

Senior Watcher

12-19-2007, 08:05 PM

well, its out. i have to say that i enjoy seeing all the characters again, but im still disappointed in the progress of the arc. to me it seems we are given another issue comprised mostly of character introductions, some friendly banter, and very little plot.

another gripe i have is the cost. the comic is $1 more than buffy. its hard for me to want to pay that when, compared to buffy, the art work isnt as the good and the story is way weaker.

being a whedon fan, i will buy the next issue. however, if we are given the same stuff that we have received in the past two issues, i may not be able to swallow the cost any more.

white avenger

12-19-2007, 10:01 PM

."...Angel: After The Fall #2 Release 12/19/07..."

Are you sure of that date?

Allycat

12-20-2007, 06:48 AM

It's the correct date. Usually it's one week later, but Diamond Distributions is closed over christmas. I couldn't get my copy because once again the pre-order was sold out. So, I have to take it to e-Bay again.

goldenboy

12-20-2007, 03:19 PM

I actually still don't have issue #1, the shop was sold out today. So I'm a little sketchy on plot details.

I dunno. #2 kind of veers into feeling like authentic ANGEL now and again. It's like Lynch has the mindset and attitude of a Buffyverse writer, but he'd be a 2nd or 3rd stringer on the writing staff, at best.

Why is Connor calling Angel "Angel"? When did he ever address him that way? What did I miss?

How is it that Gunn could have that much self-control and moral awareness as a newly minted vamp? It took Spike years, and a chip in his brain to discover his humanity. I'm not sure what's going on there.

The art's...alright at times. Lacks detail.

Hopefully, the story will pick up, get involving.

Tranquillity

12-20-2007, 11:10 PM

I got my #2 yesterday (standard cover - varients seem to be as rare as hens teeth in my neck of the woods) and have to say that i think it really does feel like a new season of Angel. I think the character voices are spot on - i think Connor is calling Angel "Angel" because that's what he called him in Origin and Not fade Away. Although he knows that Angel is his father he still has all the implanted memories too and probably calles the human father "Dad". I like that we have the beginnings of a real story and that the characters are getting established early. Wesley is intreaguing, Gunn is heartbreaking (my take on Gunn is that he thinks its still possible to be a good guy, that he can still hang on to his pre-vampire ideals but the reality, as seen in his chowing down on the girl in #1 and his brutal attack on George, demonstrate that he's completely deluded and that he can't control the monster he is now. for me, Gunn's story is unfolding as completely tragic) and Spike, well that's all just really weird and hopefully there's more to his situation and his interaction with Angel than meets the eye. I like how references have been made to what happened in the ally after NFA - that Angel couldn't move, that Gunn was turned during the battle and am looking forward to the First Night issues when we'll get the full story. The couloring is so much better than in #1 so that is a welcome improvement. One small complaint - enough with the half naked women already!!!!!

goldenboy

12-21-2007, 09:42 AM

OK, that makes a little more sense with Gunn...I think. I'll have to get my hands on #1. I guess it kinda reminds me of the sailor that Angel vamped in "Why We Fight". Looking for a mission...

I think all the cheesecake is mostly Urru's thing. He seems to be a fan of the buxom babes. I really wish IDW (and Joss for that matter) had really thought this through and pulled out all the stops. They need a brilliant penciller for this. Pointless bitching, I know.

Clem Rocks

12-21-2007, 05:32 PM

Wow, it's a good thing they're in hell, because that issue was boring as hell, it felt like i'd only read like five pages before "To be continued".

Glad to see Illyria got to keep Spike as her pet. Just one question: What did Angel name the Dragon?

I'm guessing either "Buffy", "Cordelia", "Doyle" or "Barry Manilow!" XD

Edit:

Just looked really close, and i'm pretty sure he's named it Buffy

and lol, Puff, yeah i get it :P

P.S: couldn't find edit button >_<

tommy

12-21-2007, 09:40 PM

another gripe i have is the cost. the comic is $1 more than buffy.I feel it's worth it for more comic pages and no ads in the middle. I hate those Tales from the Crypt ads in the middle of Buffy with a disgusting corpse looking at me. Should get my #2 soon from an eBay seller.

Ashxking

12-22-2007, 06:51 AM

I wonder if the other bosses have other magic items that if brought together could turn LA back to normal. Normal rules of time and space seem to out the window. (Angel and Spike in direct sunlight)

Allycat

12-22-2007, 09:01 AM

Against all odds I got my copy before christmas afterall; thank you e-Bay.

I got my #2 yesterday (standard cover - varients seem to be as rare as hens teeth in my neck of the woods) and have to say that i think it really does feel like a new season of Angel. I think the character voices are spot on - i think Connor is calling Angel "Angel" because that's what he called him in Origin and Not fade Away. Although he knows that Angel is his father he still has all the implanted memories too and probably calles the human father "Dad". I like that we have the beginnings of a real story and that the characters are getting established early. Wesley is intreaguing, Gunn is heartbreaking (my take on Gunn is that he thinks its still possible to be a good guy, that he can still hang on to his pre-vampire ideals but the reality, as seen in his chowing down on the girl in #1 and his brutal attack on George, demonstrate that he's completely deluded and that he can't control the monster he is now. for me, Gunn's story is unfolding as completely tragic) and Spike, well that's all just really weird and hopefully there's more to his situation and his interaction with Angel than meets the eye. I like how references have been made to what happened in the ally after NFA - that Angel couldn't move, that Gunn was turned during the battle and am looking forward to the First Night issues when we'll get the full story. The couloring is so much better than in #1 so that is a welcome improvement. One small complaint - enough with the half naked women already!!!!!

I think you've pretty much summed up how I felt about this issue. The Connor-Angel connection makes every sort of sense. And Gunn's story is a tragic one indeed.

As for the women; I read somewhere (and no, there's no link) that after getting some criticism about that for the first issue, Brian took it up with Franco and it will be changed in future issues. However, at the time the art for issue 2 was already completed, so if we see any changes, it should be from issue 3 on.

And on that note, I can't wait for it. This story is unfolding very nicely. There's a just big enough amount of mystery answered to get my satisfied but plenty more left unaswered to have me wondering about for a whole month.

Angel's Avenger

12-24-2007, 05:11 AM

Did Lorne appear in this one?

Clem Rocks

12-24-2007, 05:32 AM

Did Lorne appear in this one?

Nope, 'fraid not. I hope he turns up soon

Lyri

12-24-2007, 11:38 AM

this arrived this morning...an early Christmas pressie, as i wasn't expecting it until Thursday at the earliest.

the storyline is slowly dragging me in, but i don't know if it's because i actually wanna know what's going on, or if i'm hoping it gets better.

i like the relationship between Angel and Connor. i'm glad they're still on that middle ground they were during 'NFA' it could lead to a closer father/son relationship if they ever get out of hell.

not so sure if i liked Spike's introduction. i wanted him to be fighting on the front lines, not lounging at the Playboy Mansion. hopefully next issue will pull him into the fight a little more.

i didn't like Illyria. not only does she look a little...blah, but the whole 'Your presence is irritating my pet' was just stupid, IMO.

i agree with everyone about the Gunn storyline...i'd like to see where they're gonna go with that. i'm imagining some sort of suicide thing...

HATED the art. it looks like something a high school kid would come up with. Angel, Connor, Spike, Gunn and Wes all looked pretty ok, i can live with those. but Gwen and Nina? i could do better. i hope the art improves, or they find a new artist. that's my one major problem with this comic...the art sucks.

Black Eye Guy

12-24-2007, 12:07 PM

The art was Awful! And the story was boring.

I liked the Connor/Angel bits, Gwen was ok, but she looked awful. Illyria looked stupid and they've turned spike into a idiot. And clearly the first thing Nina did when getting sent to hell was get breast implants! And her character is too different from the character on the show.

I bought the two covers and a third one that was just the cover drawn not coloured in, but it was the last time I'm gonna get all covers, cuz I don't care anymore...

tommy

12-26-2007, 10:55 AM

it felt like i'd only read like five pages before "To be continued".Hum, yeah. The February issue will be Angel putting a shirt on :).

I read #2 yesterday. Not very exciting really, even the end. We've seen Angel and Illyria fight before and this time there's no good reason for it.

The bigger story with the city divided up, each section with its own lord, sounds a lot like a video game to me.

VisionGuy

12-26-2007, 11:21 AM

I'm really not feeling this continuation. The whole LA sucked into hell thing sounds too unbelievable to me. Wouldn't the rest of the world notice? Realistically speaking, if Buffy were to know she would try her hardest to restore it wouldn't she? Especially since both loves of her life are stuck there. The only thing that is mildly interesting is the Gunn/Vampire thing. I didn't like what they did to Spike. They made him selfish and only interested in the material things. The Spike in BtVS season 7 would have been concentrating on how to get everything right again. Not acting like some Hugh Hefner at the Playboy mansion while the whole city suffers. And the whole Nina thing is annoying to me. Just kill her off or return her to normal already. And WTF is wrong wit her eyes? The Illyria intro was corny too. And the way they draw Wesley makes him look like the BtVS season 3 Wesley when he was a watcher. The only reason I'm gonna keep buying this is so I can see what happens but in my opinion, they are ruining everything.

Keanoite

12-26-2007, 11:30 AM

nerd4hire

12-26-2007, 12:57 PM

I can actually live with this "Where's Buffy" thing, because whenever I run into problems like that I just fanwank it, and say some force has patchworked an altenate universe into this one. Like at the end of Season 4 where Angel kills Connor, or in BTVS The Wish, or the whole Dawn as the key thing.

Senior Watcher

12-26-2007, 02:31 PM

."...Angel: After The Fall #2 Release 12/19/07..."

Are you sure of that date?

yeah, thats the release date.

GATEGOD

12-26-2007, 03:23 PM

I'm going crazy and will have to run to the store and get this today!!!

Dlou444

12-26-2007, 04:17 PM

I got them for Christmas because my daughter, the little sweetie, was INSISTANT with her Daddy. (5 year olds can be SO wise)
I didn't like the first one, although, I may have to go back and read it again. I couldn't follow it well. It didn't make any sense. Like they weren't quite sure what they were writing yet.
The second one I liked MUCH better. It was easier to follow...although, without holding the two together, I'm not sure I could guess why.
For a while in the first one, I kept wondering if the dragon had died at some point without me noticing. It just seemed to be laying in the background lifeless.
I don't think they explained Wesley well enough in the first one. And I have NO idea how or WHY Angel's still at WR&H. I mean it did say they put him back there, but uh....huh? It still baffles me. Take your dragon, go get Buffy and Connor and anyone else and fight back.
The half naked women baffled me too.
And then there is the Spike thing.
I can see Gunn's issues. I even see Illyria joining in the "Lords" idea. Don't like it, but I can see it. And I can see Illyria and Spike hanging out. What I DON'T see is why she's not more OBVIOUSLY involved with Wesley, Connor and Nina. It would seem, even if they are in two different camps, that Illyria's bond with Wesley would have them working maybe not working WITH Angel, but working parallel.

The comic books also bug me because I feel like they are too short too. I like to watch Angel in the mornings on TNT and I told my husband it's like leaving the room for a commercial break and not getting to the next session for a month. What I may need to do is just wait and get them twice a year. I want an EPISODE, not a section.

I do think the art comes and goes. Some sections I think are REALLY good, but two inches away there is one that I think they could have worked on more. On the other hand, I know I have a HECK of a time redoing drawings at a different angle and over and over, so since I know I CAN'T do it in any sort of reasonable time, I have to give them some leeway.

I do agree with Nerd4Hire in with I am just trying to trust Joss with things I don't understand. I feel like most of the stuff will get worked out. I would like some normal sized boobs, though.

Now, I get to start on my Buffy ones though! YEAH! I had to do Angel first because my husband was stalking them! ::tongue::

GATEGOD

12-30-2007, 03:55 PM

I just read it and I liked the Gunn thing, not too sure why Angel went to see Spike/Illyria... maybe I missed something when I read it. Nina seems a bit too wolfy? Connor looked like a girl on one of the pages. Atleast the story is moving and something is happening, I don't know what's happening, but something is. I can't wait to see third issue to try and find out what the hell is going on :p

Clem Rocks

12-30-2007, 04:37 PM

not too sure why Angel went to see Spike/Illyria...

I think Angel thinks the writting on the wall in blood is connected to Illyria

Evilyn

12-31-2007, 03:07 AM

So, I picked this up on Friday, finally. I was skeptical at first about the whole Gunn drama, but now I'm intrigued. I want to see where this is going with him.

I DO NOT like the way the females are being drawn as something off a Lords of Acid album cover. I mean, it's one thing to have busty females in comics, just not in this one. Could we get a little realism into what these ladies look like, please? This is the Angel/Buffyverse, not DOA Extreme 2. (which I have played recently and THAT game is just ridiculous.)

I don't think they turned Spike into an idiot, he's just being, well, Spike. And is it just me, or is he living in the Playboy Mansion? What happened to Hef and the Girl's Next Door?

I think as far as Buffy not knowing what is going on it could have something to do with space-time continuoum(sp?). Like, LA was sucked into an alternate reality, but to the rest of the world, it appears normal. So Buffy has no idea what is going on. Another question would be, where is Hank, didn't he still live in LA? I mean, being that LA is Buffy's hometown, I'm sure she still has other friends and family there that she still cares about, we've just never heard anything about them. I dunno, I'm just theorizing there.

Overall, I have to say it was better than the first, just still nowhere near as good as Buffy S8. It's moving along weird. Like, I dunno, where Buffy seems a bit fast paced at times, this seems a little snail paced. It could just be me though.

alexa

01-02-2008, 04:52 AM

Got to agree that the progression of the arc, wasn't done so well, but apart from that I loved it.
Liking the comic a lot more now. Although I enjoyed it so much it ended way too fast. Love that we got to see Spike.. and Illyria for 2 seconds. Glad they're not going down the 'Connor is an ungrateful jerk' road again, love his character, and could really hear his voice. And I'm really enjoying George.. he's kinda sweet.
Not sure what to make of Gunn yet, I don't know if Angel would go and try to tame the dragon while he's being killed. Is Gunn trying to make a way out of Hell-LA? and why?
Is Spike just pissed because he's stuck in another dimension? Don't really get why he wouldn't be working with Angel unless he had a good reason.. or would just rather lay around with naked girls.. yeah ok I get it. But he still looked pissed.

Oh and I already complained about the busty/bum female exploitation thing, don't need to for too much longer because they are suppost to change that soon.

Also don't know why people have issues with vampires being out with the sun up... we're in another dimension. Go watch the end of season 2 again :p You never know what the sun(s) in different dimensions is going to do.

Angel's vision

01-03-2008, 07:51 AM

I agree with Dlou444 I don't understand why Angel is at W&H either, I'd a thought he'd be on the run!
Unless it is something that hasn't been explained properly I don't know. Gunn's arc is interesting, but I don't understand how Angel can not suspect Gunn, he indecated he knew about his friends in issue one. If Buffy were to do something about LA she'd blame Angel and try to kill him aswell as try to get it back, gathering from what we know of the scoobies attitude so far.So I'm kinda GLAD there is no Buffy I am SICK of this let's bitch Angel crap let's have some objectivity and less schoolyard please! It's Angel's story. I wanna see some plotline where he finds a way to defeat the partners and bring LA back without scoobie interference and so he can have some peace and move on. Infact I'd like for him to alter the timeline where he can save his friends and LA, and distroy the SP's. I'm also not sure about Wes being the conduit to the SP's!

Ashxking

01-03-2008, 09:10 AM

Spike could have done what Angel said Linsey would have done. Say he was forced to fight the good fight. For the right price he would stop being a good guy. As far as Angel staying at W&H he was given compleat controll of the place. Im sure there had to be some mystical charms so no one but a W&H employ can come in

palabravampiress

01-07-2008, 09:25 PM

Ok. I just read the comics. I accidentally read them out of order, so I read #2 first. Oops. That might change my view of things.

Anyway, I really liked #2. They could have made that #1 and I wouldn't have had any questions. I laughed out loud. I liked the character voices. That's all I really wanted. Oh - and maybe it's because I live in the L.A. area, but I liked the joke about Westwood and crowns. Really, I liked the L.A. stuff a lot. Seeing the hell version of various parts of town really had me tickled. And did anyone else notice that Spike is drinking out of the cup from Destiny?

As far as Spike goes... umm, what's his deal? I don't get why Mr. I-got-my-soul-back-on-purpose is eschewing the good fight. Doesn't he still have his soul? I don't get why he's mad at Angel, either. I mean, he did volunteer for this, same as the others. Based on the Anne-Rice inspired yarn he was spinning when we first saw him, I'm theorizing that he's posing as evil-ish in order to consolidate some power... to what end, I have no clue, but I'm hoping it's to a helpful, good sort of end.

I'm hoping the quit with the obvious objectification of women thing soon. Ugh. The TV show was never like that. Maybe that's all the Spike thing was about, too. I mean, even evil, he was always a one woman man. I'm just really thrown. He seems more out-of-character than the rest.

I'm intrigued by Wes and Gunn. I could care less about Nina, Connor, and Gwen, although I do think they're funny. I'm on the fence about Angel. I'm not buying Spike at all. Overall, though, I think it's funny and I'm looking forward to the next issue.

alexa

01-08-2008, 04:11 AM

I know all the bikini'd females in heels feels like a bad porno or sunscreen commercial. Maybe Spike made a wish that every woman would be a DD cup and semi-clothed? God I hope so.::huh1::

Anyway I've read the Lynch is making changes because of all the complaints.. didn't they know they have loads of female Angel fans.. and most of them aren't keen on female exploitation. :p Guess we'll see what happens.

Cordelia Chase*

01-11-2008, 09:17 AM

I read somewhere that Nina is all Wolf like because the sun and the moon are out together.

Angel's Avenger

01-15-2008, 04:06 AM

I got my no 2 today and I still hate the art. I've never been so disappointed...I've had high hopes for this. I'm still confused about the plot too.

However, since I'm an Angel fan, I will continue to get the comics. But the artwork had better improve!

white avenger

01-15-2008, 04:36 AM

palabravampiress

01-15-2008, 11:12 AM

A possible solution to the "Why isn't Buffy/Faith/the Slayer army/or whoever there in LA to help and will Buffy ever know what's going on" is that, in the time frame of the hell dimension, literally years or even centuries could pass while only minutes pass here. The entire Angel series could consist of a very lengthy war and a just as lengthy period of restoration of the city in a period of time so brief in our dimension that the city literally was never missed.

Except for the fact that it's L freakin' A, home of the most obsessively watched and contacted people in the country. Suck L.A. under for 1/2 an hour and the world's gonna wonder wny TMZ isn't giving them the up-to-the-minute scoop on Britney and Paris!

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 02:33 PM

palabravampiress

01-17-2008, 07:16 PM

Unless when LA was sucked to hell it didnt appear that way to everyone else. On the outside. But idk.

I'm mad Gunn is a vampire!!! But then again, I dont see any other way of him surviving without having being turned because at the end of season five he was half way dead and he would of lacked in the strangth department. Im just curious to where everything its going with this.

I don't know where it's going... but I'm sorta hoping he gets re-ensouled and Shanshued. I'd so looove to see Angel and Spike react to that.

Of course, I think Spike already Shanshued. If Gunn did it, that would destroy my pet theory. Oh well.

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 09:12 PM

Lol! Even though Im not a fan of Gunn being a vamp, but I gotta go along with it cuz I do like his character and its kinda cool to see him killing big demons! lol

palabravampiress

01-17-2008, 11:35 PM

Lol! Even though Im not a fan of Gunn being a vamp, but I gotta go along with it cuz I do like his character and its kinda cool to see him killing big demons! lol

I kind of liked it when he went all bumpy and evil and attacked that lady, but in the next issue, he's still trying to be Mr. Good Guy (just in his demented, vampiric way). I think that's a really neat conflict for the character.

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 11:37 PM

I don't know where it's going... but I'm sorta hoping he gets re-ensouled and Shanshued. I'd so looove to see Angel and Spike react to that.

Of course, I think Spike already Shanshued. If Gunn did it, that would destroy my pet theory. Oh well.

lol.....the prophecy just poppedin my head. lol

That would be funny. After all...it did said the vampire with a soul.....so GUnn just needs one of those popped in! lol

Edit:

I kind of liked it when he went all bumpy and evil and attacked that lady, but in the next issue, he's still trying to be Mr. Good Guy (just in his demented, vampiric way). I think that's a really neat conflict for the character.

I think so as well. Hes trying to be good and is actually doing it but his vampire ways cant be pushed down

palabravampiress

01-17-2008, 11:37 PM

lol.....the prophecy just poppedin my head. lol

That would be funny. After all...it did said the vampire with a soul.....so GUnn just needs one of those popped in! lol

Edit:

I think so as well. Hes trying to be good and is actually doing it but his vampire ways cant be pushed down

Spike can tell him where to go to get it, even.

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 11:41 PM

True. I wanna see a Angel vs Gunn brawl. I know its bound to happen.

palabravampiress

01-17-2008, 11:44 PM

True. I wanna see a Angel vs Gunn brawl. I know its bound to happen.

That will be soooo fun. You're right; it's bound to happen.

I hope it doesn't happen for a while, though. It's something to look forward to. It's a finale sort of thing. Then again, didn't Destiny happen mid-season? That was the Spike and Angel brawl, and that definitely did not disappoint.

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 11:48 PM

Yea..it did. But I want Gunn to be goo, good again! =(

Man! I need issue #3. I wanna know what happens next.

TabulaRasa

01-18-2008, 03:14 PM

Ok, I just got thru it. My comic shop is kind of slow sometimes.
Anyways, I really liked it. I am getting used to the art and it doesn't bother me any. I also like the thick pages.
I was so happy to see not only Spike, but Spike, Gwen AND Illyria in one issue. I mean come on! That was just awesome.
Any word on whether Gwen will be a main character? I think it would be benificial for her to be. I mean we already know her, we know how darn cute she is and about her past. And well I think knowing what she looks like and sounds like helps. Well it does me anyways cause when I read I do their voices in my head. Yes I am an odd bird I know.
So we know Wes is a fantom (dennis..awe) and he is working for them. So them as in evil hell WR&H? Anyone care to elaborate. I usually need to read comics twice before I fully get it all. Must be the add.

All in all, I enjoyed it very much.