Did Spike ever tell Buffy that he was alive after Season Seven?

[DarklyDreamingDrusilla]

Okay, I am really sorry if this is already in a thread somewhere but I could not find one so here goes. Does anyone know if Spike and Buffy ever talked about him being alive? Does she even know yet? We know that Andrew found out but Spike told him not to say anything because he wanted to tell Buffy himself. Did that ever happen? Because if it did I totally missed that little conversation. I was just wondering because I have not seen any mention of Spike in season 8 really at all except for the wonderful dream that Buffy had. ::heart:: But otherwise I have not really heard whether or not she knows. I have not read the second Angel After the Fall so if there is info in there that might be why I don't know but I doubt it. So if anyone has any answers for me or just wants to join in the confusion you are completely welcome.

[palabravampiress]

I don't think she knows. I think Spike wanted to tell her himself, but then he got caught up in saving the world with Angel. Now, apparently, he's in Hell with the rest of us Los Angeleans or something (I haven't read the comics yet). So, no. I don't think Buffy knows. It would have been rude for anyone to have told her against his wishes. I don't blame him for wanting to be the one to do it or for getting side tracked. I DO blame him for being a whiny coward about it, though. I see his point -- it is sort of a shock and it does kind of diminish the died-saving-the-world angle, but come on! I don't think she'll think any less of him because he died and came back. I mean, duh. How could she?

Honestly, that last moment between them was sort of what he always wanted. It was as close to perfection as Spike ever thought he'd get with her. I think he's being selfish and trying to hold onto that moment rather than to let everything get all confusing and messy, like it always does with those two. Really, I think it's the first completely cowardly and completely selfish thing I've ever seen him do. Even when he was evil, he put Dru's well-being ahead of his own. To be honest, I'm kind of disappointed in him.

[Rebecca]

After watching The Girl In Question on Angel, I kinda presumed that she'd know, as she was staying with Andrew who knew he was alive. But (I dunno if I'm right here as I haven't actually read the comics) apparently the buffy who was dancing with the immortal wasn't actually Buffy, it was someone there to protect Dawn, or something like that.

So now I have no idea if she knows! I'd have thought Andrew, being Andrew, would have found a way to tell her though...?

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

Yeah Andrew always let things slip when he shouldn't have....

i don't think it was cowardly for Spike to want to hold on to that last moment though, i can understand it. There are a lot of moments in life like that, where sometimes taking that second chance isn't always the best option, some things are just better left how they were.

[Keanoite]

Although there is nothing set in stone it is widely believed that Buffy doesn't know about Spike...yet. Right now where season eight is Angel would be in the early stages of it's 5th season, before Andrew's visit, so really she couldn't know. Also, there is a serious shadow cast over Andrew and his connection with Buffy. He is one of the suspects for being the Twilights inside guy. Also in 'Damage' he said Giles sent him to L.A., as of the last issue of season 8 Giles and Buffy have severed contact wth each other. So given the time frame and the state of their relationship at the minute it is unlikely that Andrew would tell Buffy anyway. So basically, she don't know!

As for Spike, well I think he is being a big fraidy cat! He has no reason to keep his resurrection from Buffy other than him being afraid. He is not trying to protect her from anything or save her feelings. I think he is afraid that the relationship 'jumped the shark' the last time they were together and that she didin't mean what she said, and he is too chicken to find out. Which is very un-Spike like in my opinion. Personally I think he needs to grow a pair, get over himslef and tell her!

[palabravampiress]

Do you guys think that maybe this un-Spike-like behavior has more to do with property rights than with plot or characterization? I mean, aren't Angel and Buffy owned separately and not really allowed to cross over? I think *that's* the real reason for which Spike is holding off on telling Buffy.

[Keanoite]

Do you guys think that maybe this un-Spike-like behavior has more to do with property rights than with plot or characterization? I mean, aren't Angel and Buffy owned separately and not really allowed to cross over? I think *that's* the real reason for which Spike is holding off on telling Buffy.

Honestly, I don't for a second believe that's the reason. I mean the character of Spike was created when Buffy was on the WB so there is NO reason for him to be different and clearly they are allowed cross over both Willow and Angel crossed over after Buffy had moved to upn.

I think the reason they played him so unspike like is because they couldn't get smg to guest star and well they had to continue with that sh*** reasoning.

[palabravampiress]

Honestly, I don't for a second believe that's the reason. I mean the character of Spike was created when Buffy was on the WB so there is NO reason for him to be different and clearly they are allowed cross over both Willow and Angel crossed over after Buffy had moved to upn.

I think the reason they played him so unspike like is because they couldn't get smg to guest star and well they had to continue with that sh*** reasoning.

See, I would buy that, but then there are other things that sort of make me question how connected they're allowed to be, too.

For example, why didn't the Scoobies send a cadre of slayers to help with the apocalypse that sucked Los Angeles into Hell? That's the biggest one for me. It's even bigger than the Spike thing, honestly, because I figured Buffy would be sending in the second wave as soon as she found out that Angel's crew hadn't held the line. What about Jasmine? After that whole thing was finished, why didn't Buffy check up on Angel to find out what had happened? I mean, didn't some of Angel's crew appear with her on national television? There are a lot of things like this that don't make sense to me unless there are some legal issues preventing logical crossover action. Instead, all we got were some one-sided phone calls, some off-screen action, and some minor character crossovers (like Andrew). It just gives me the impression that someone or something has tied their hands and that they're trying to tip-toe around that someone or something.

[Keanoite]

See, I would buy that, but then there are other things that sort of make me question how connected they're allowed to be, too.

For example, why didn't the Scoobies send a cadre of slayers to help with the apocalypse that sucked Los Angeles into Hell? That's the biggest one for me. It's even bigger than the Spike thing, honestly, because I figured Buffy would be sending in the second wave as soon as she found out that Angel's crew hadn't held the line. What about Jasmine? After that whole thing was finished, why didn't Buffy check up on Angel to find out what had happened? I mean, didn't some of Angel's crew appear with her on national television? There are a lot of things like this that don't make sense to me unless there are some legal issues preventing logical crossover action. Instead, all we got were some one-sided phone calls, some off-screen action, and some minor character crossovers (like Andrew). It just gives me the impression that someone or something has tied their hands and that they're trying to tip-toe around that someone or something.

Well we don't know what happened in that alley yet. After the Fall picks up after the big showdown, so for all we know Buffy and co DID show up and help save the day, we are waiting on Dark Night to find out.

There were some legal issues between upn and the wb in the first year after Buffy's move thats why we never saw the Reunion, not only that time was a major issue. While filming season 7 SMG was also filming Scoobie Doo 2 so she physically didn't have the time to do an Angel crossover and I think more than anything the writers weren't too keen on them. They wanted Angel to stand on it's own without falling back on Buffy. Both time wise and money wise crossovers just didn't make sense for the shows and to be honest I think it would be a bit hokey having all the Angel gang go to Sunnydale or all the scoobs head to L.A. every couple of months to help out. As far as Jamine goes I don't think Buffy knew about it, at the time all the power was cut in Sunnydale so they didn't have access to tv, radio or internet, thats why they weren't affected by her. Buffy was totally oblivious to what was going on.

[Tranquillity]

See, i do think he's told Buffy that he's alive and we just didn't get to see it. I think he would have called Buffy after Fred died, when he becomes convinced that he's needed to help Angel in LA. I don't see his decision not to tell Buffy straight away as cowadice - i see it as him wanting to see if he can be a 'good guy' without the her aid. Angel and Lindsey both imply that he's only good because of what he wants from Buffy and so by staying in LA and not contacting her he's testing himself, proving that he really is good beyond his feelings for Buffy. I have this whole big theory (ok, maybe its a fanwank - whatever!) about Spike knowing that it's not the real buffy in The Girl In Question which i've discussed on another thread so won't repeat here in detail - other than to say that:
1) Spike told Andrew he would 'take care of it' - he usually does what he says he will
2) Andrew knows - how long was he likely to keep that secret to himself
3) because Spike shows no enthusiasim about going to Italy until Angel says he is going to go to Rome. Competativeness between the vampires? perhaps but it could also be that Spike knows that the real Buffy is not in Rome so has no desire to go there but once Angel says he will go then it becomes a case of protecting Buffy's secret. Because at this stage she doesn't trust Angel because he works at wolfram and hart.

(ok, i did go into a bit of detail...:uhh: which i hope makes sense...)

Although there is nothing set in stone it is widely believed that Buffy doesn't know about Spike...yet. Right now where season eight is Angel would be in the early stages of it's 5th season, before Andrew's visit, so really she couldn't know. Also, there is a serious shadow cast over Andrew and his connection with Buffy.

correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think the time line of Angel season 5 - Buffy season 8 - Angel: After the Fall is as cut and dried as this. Isn't there some missing time unaccounted for? Didn't Joss say season 8 takes place a year and a half after season seven placing it after Angel season 5 which commenced just nineteen days after the the Final Fight in Sunnydale?

[Keanoite]

correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think the time line of Angel season 5 - Buffy season 8 - Angel: After the Fall is as cut and dried as this. Isn't there some missing time unaccounted for? Didn't Joss say season 8 takes place a year and a half after season seven placing it after Angel season 5 which commenced just nineteen days after the the Final Fight in Sunnydale?

Honestly I'm not so sure now...best check it with N4H to be certain...I'm sure there is a whole thread floating around somewhere about this

[white avenger]

I had personally always thought that sometime either before or after Spike's performance at the Poetry Slam, he at least TRIED to call Buffy to tell her that he was back. In all honesty, I also thought that Angel would try to call for the same reason, and to apologize for not telling her about Spike's return as soon as it happened (it would be the honorable thing to do, and Angel considers himself to be an honorable man). If they had still been working under the assumption that Buffy was in Rome, they might have gotten the fake Buffy, in which case one or both vampires know they were lied to by Andrew, or they might have gotten Andrew himself, in which case one or both of them might have left some parting message (I can see Spike leaving some sort of, "It is a far, far better thing I do.." or "My last thoughts, should I fall in this battle will be of you..." sort of thing) which Andrew would dutifully deliver to Giles, who would in all likelyhood simply destroy the message rather than let the real Buffy know that Spike was back.

[palabravampiress]

Gosh, WA, do you really think Giles wouldn't pass on a "before I die" message?

On a semi-related topic, I just had this memory of my dad doing something similar. When I was a teenager, I briefly dated this stoner guy. My dad's favorite thing to say about this boy was, "that boy has no character." Apparently, this boy came back like years later and knocked on the door. Out of nowhere. I had practically forgotten about him. I don't know what my reaction would have been had I seen him (probably "Huh?"), but I didn't see him that day. Instead, years after *that,* my dad finally came clean. He said the guy asked whether or not I was home and that, even though I actually was at home, my dad lied and sent the boy on his way. lol. When I asked him why, my dad said, "That boy was not for you." Of course, by the time he told me, it was no longer of any consequence. I couldn't be mad about it. I think I was engaged or even married by then.

I guess I can see Giles "protecting" Buffy in like manner. Then again, Buffy's no teenager and this boy of mine wasn't about to die for the good of the world (again).

[white avenger]

I have no doubt whatsoever that, if any such note were delivered, Giles would somehow intercept it exactly the way he intersepted Angel's request for help from Willow when Fred was dying. He has proved time and again that he does not approve of either Angel or Spike, going so far as to try to murder Spike when he knew that Buffy desperately needed all the help that she could get in the upcoming fight. I believe that Giles was relieved when he thought that Spike was finally dead in Sunnydale and fully expected to resume his mentor/student relationship with Buffy after the battle but their conflicting feelings about the vampire only served to widen the rift between them, possibly leading to a complete severance of communication and bitter feelings all around. We know that Giles is no longer associated with whatever group succeeded the old Watchers' Council while Buffy and her friends obviously did, hence the Scottish castle headquarters and all of its state of the art equipment and an obviously sizable operating budget.

It takes no stretch of my imagination to envision the ill feelings existing between Gilles and Buffy even developing into near hostility on both sides, and even dragging the Scoobies into it with Buffy, since they obviously are still working with her and Giles, by his own admission, is not. Carrying that logic further, it would be completely within Andrew's character to openly work with the Council and the Slayers while actually being Giles' "secret agent" infiltrating the organization and passing information on to Giles. He might even have recruited a small force of Slayers to his cause, and they were the girls who accompanied Andrew to LA to retrieve Dana, taking her, not back to the Watchers' Council, but to somewhere under the care of Giles or someone associated with him.

The fact that Giles came to Faith for help instead of Buffy even further adds to my suspicions that there is at least SOME sort of ill feelings between him and Buffy, and his suggestion of "being Steed to Faith's Peel" is also significant to those familiar with the old "Avengers" tv show. Steed supposedly worked for some covert organization within British Intelligence, but in fact seemed to be almost a free agent, operating with little or no official help whatsoever, relying instead on Emma Peel, who had no government connections and was on several occasions referred to as an "amateur."