Discussion of 8.10 "Anywhere But Here" Released 01/02/08 (Dark Horse) [Archive]

Allycat

01-04-2008, 12:52 PM

This issue is the best one so far and it also feels the most like the TV series.

Therewith endeth the spoiler-free discussion.

First of all, the art; I'm diggin' it. Cliff Richards' work looks a little darker and a little more mature, which is just what this issue needs in my opinion. Jeanty's work is a little more frivolous and fun. Cliff doesn't have all of the characters down quite the way Georges does. Dawn looked a bit unfriendly and Kennedy looked a bit skinny. With the exception of that one frame with only her face, that was spot on.

The plot for this issue is a bit flimsy and seems to be merely a device to get some of the backstory out and some character development going. Luckily, said character development is delightfully Whedonesque. The whole Willow/Buffy/Kennedy/Tara thing is too touching. The schism at the end between Buffy and Willow is curious to say the least. I wonder if Joss is once again seperating her from all the people close to her on purpose. First, Dawn and her don't get along, then she and Giles split, now Buffy and Willow; what's up with that? Although, it would seem things are not as bad as they seem between Buffy and Giles, if he is still briefing her.

Although, it's main function seemed to be to built dramatic tension between parts of the main story, the Dawn/Xander side-story was interesting too, if maybe a little clichéd as Xander pointed out. So, Dawn is a giant skank; I have to admit I didn't see that one coming, but it's a good twist. Question: is Kenny the thricewise or Nick? Something I also wouldn't have guessed is that Buffy and the Slayers have stolen the funding. It seems very unlike Buffy.

The celebrity guest appearances were cool. I wonder if Joss/Dark Horse had to get permission to use their likeness? Tina Fey rocks in 30 Rock and Daniel Craig was awesome as Bond. Surprise, surprise, Joss has taste. One more thing is that I like how they connected this issue with different events from previous seasons, like Parker. It adds to the realism.

Finally, there's one more important thing I want to discuss: BETRAYAL. There's two lines that worry me.

No. I won't betray you. Any more than I have.

What does she mean exactly? I'm not sure. I think what she means is that she wouldn't choose Buffy over her significant other again, and in retrospect wishes she hadn't. Although, she couldn't have known. But like I said, I'm not sure what to make of this line, so any input is appreciated.

Betrayal. The closest, the most unexpected.

Is this Robin referring to that whole thing with Willow above... or, as I'm thinking, is she referring to Twilight's man-on-the-inside? I'm a bit scared by the "the closest"... I mean Dawn, Willow, and Giles are all not very close to Buffy right now, so that would just leave Xander. It's hard to imagine him betraying her.

PS: Can anyone confirm that the paper this issue was printed on is somehow different from the normal paper?

GATEGOD

01-04-2008, 01:45 PM

This issue is the best one so far and it also feels the most like the TV series.

Really? I haven't got it yet, another few hours I'll be going to get it, Hopefully!! :lmao: You're making me jumpy I so want to read it!!

Senior Watcher

01-05-2008, 07:56 AM

allycat, great post. you said everything i was going to say.....except WAY better.

This issue is the best one so far and it also feels the most like the TV series.

i agree. this issue has A TON of stuff going on. lots of twists and turns and tension, oh my (wizard of oz reference)! keep in mind that this is a 25 page comic as opposed to the normal 22 pages. i wish they would always do an extra 3 pages because i feel they were able to add so much more to the story.

Question: is Kenny the thricewise or Nick? Something I also wouldn't have guessed is that Buffy and the Slayers have stolen the funding. It seems very unlike Buffy.

i think that kenny is the thricewise. reason: after he found out about dawn cheating on him, he got mad (and rightly so) and made her big. think about it; why would nick make her big when hes the one that slept with her!

as for the buffy stealing thing?! i have no idea what is going on. i had to read that part twice to make sure my eyes did not deceive me. im sure that all questions on that story line will be answered soon.

PS: Can anyone confirm that the paper this issue was printed on is somehow different from the normal paper?

i think it was printed on worse paper than normal. the 'binding' edge (where the staples are) had smeared black ink. the smearing was very light, but dark enough to see. as a matter of fact, i didnt even notice it until i went up to the counter to buy it and the girl behind the counter looked at it and said, "you should take this back to the rack and get another one with no smudging on it." unfortunatley, they all had smudging.

final note: the fan letters in the back are tear jerkers. if you cry easily, feel free to read them, but make sure you have a box of tissues near by. very sad stuff.......but its also encouraging as well.

Clem Rocks

01-05-2008, 08:42 AM

Question: is Kenny the thricewise or Nick?

Haven't read it yet, but seeing as everyone who met Kenny said he was a thricewise including Giles, who only spoke to him on the phone and knew he was a thricewise. I'd say it's still Kenny :P

Evilyn

01-05-2008, 09:58 AM

So, the whole Buffy stealing thing totally threw me off guard. There is kind of a funny story that goes along with that. My husband is manager/head of security at a local bar. We were having "date night" when he got the call that the bar had just been "shot up" in a drive by. So, naturally we had to end our evening so he could go to work and review the security tapes. While we are sitting in the super secret batcave like security area, I decide no better time to read "my Buffy" as I like to call it. He and his assistant head of security are reviewing the tape and when I reach that part, I blurt out loud "OH MY GOD! Buffy robbed a bank! I can't believe she did that!". Totally inappropriate timing, and probably not as funny as I thought, but I like to share my idiocy with everyone!: scratch:crazy:

So, anyway sorry bout that. This was probably the most confusing read for me so far. (More than likely attributed to lack of sleep). I loved the fantasy scenes, especially the one with Buffy and the two Christian Bales. (Possible nod to the Dark Knight rumors?) Xander telling Dawn she had just become a cliche made me laugh out loud. Has she really been that sheltered in her "life"? Overall though, I'm not sure what to think of it. I am going to read it again today after I've had my coffee, maybe I can make more sense of it then.

Clem Rocks

01-05-2008, 02:25 PM

Just read it, and the first thing i've gotta say is, god the art sucks D= it's almost as bad as After The Fall! The only recognisable person is Kennedy

Thoughts:

What was the deal with the broken magic egg where future Buffy gets hurt?

What made Buffy want to rob a bank? and how'd she get the slayerettes to go along with it?

Who has to win the war for magic to die? Twilight or Buffy? Up until now, it looked like Twilight, but after this issue, i'm not so sure

Why does Buffy think that Willow's a demon?

And a great quote from this issue

Xander: You ever see the first guy Buffy slept with in college?
Dawn: Riley?
Xander: Oh how she wishes

:lmao:

Lyri

01-05-2008, 05:05 PM

i got this today, and i thought it was an ok story.

i LOVED the fact that Dawn's a giant because of a revenge kick. i was really struggling with the idea that she was big because she slept with a thricewise. it's a very Joss thing to put in a twist like this.

so, the outside funding is that Buffy's a bank robber. what, did she get tips from Anya? i'm not sure how i feel about that whole twist. on the one hand, i'm loving the fact that Buffy's finally using her powers for personal gain. Faith tried hard to get her to do that, even once. but it takes the fact that she has to look after hundreds of Slayers that forces her to do this.

on the other hand, Buffy's supposed to be the good guy. she's not supposed to be robbing banks and beating up security guards. i'm having a hard time swallowing the fact that she even thought of doing it in the first place.

Robin's character, i was a little disappointed. i thought the whole idea was that the competion winner was supposed to have some huge part in this comic. not be someone's 'minder'. i was expecting her to be some sort of Slayer or something. maybe she'll show up later and have a bigger part.

the ending confused me. Buffy and Willow walking away in opposite directions was hard to see. i don't want her to be distant from her friends again, i like having them all together!!

Buffy mentioning that Faith tried to kill her makes me think that she hasn't spoken to Faith or Giles since the whole thing with Gigi. so, she either doesn't want to, and has been ignoring their calls, or Giles and Faith have decided that they don't need Buffy for whatever their gonna do now. which i kinda like. i'm really digging the Faith an Giles show.

i'm sorta on the fence when it comes to this issue. hopefully the next issue will be better.

tommy

01-05-2008, 05:53 PM

Oh... I'm late again. By the time my copy arrives I'll read this thread properly and find that everything I wanted to say has been said. My eyes accidentally focused on a spoiler on this page - I must flee! Good to hear that people really like this issue.

GATEGOD

01-06-2008, 01:40 PM

Although, it's main function seemed to be to built dramatic tension between parts of the main story, the Dawn/Xander side-story was interesting too, if maybe a little clichéd as Xander pointed out.

I could easily see that :lmao: I found it funny that Dawn is called a skank lol!!

Shocked though when Buffy was actually stealing... she's killed things for less.. and now she's taking up the life of a criminal. Faith would be proud.

The whole willow split from Buffy and her still wanting and loving and holding onto Tara... when Xander hasn't even mentioned Anya .. ::huh1:: not a highlight for me but atleast she finally came out and blamed herself..again, for Tara's death.

Loved the art, the whole reason they went to the mystical place was a little sketchy but we did learn quite a few more things which is always good. Loved seeing Kennedy, even though I couldn't tell it was Kennedy until they started talking :p I wish willow could be hung up with one of her other loves, instead of just Tara all the time, but I guess she still kicks herself everyday for it. Which is sad. Anyway! I still want to see if her and Oz ever become a thing or if they ever talk about Anya ^_^ But I liked this issue :D

Clem Rocks

01-06-2008, 02:14 PM

Xander hasn't even mentioned Anya

and that's a bad thing? lol

GATEGOD

01-06-2008, 02:25 PM

and that's a bad thing? lol

Yea when they can't stop mentioning other dead people :lmao:

Tranquillity

01-07-2008, 02:20 AM

GATEGOD

01-07-2008, 02:25 AM

So did Buffy rob the bank or was it something that hasn't happened yet or the demon feeding them lies? Agree with those above who have observed it is most un-buffylike behaviour. Have to admit that i found parts of this one a bit confusing and it will require many re-readings. I did think that Kenedy looked very pretty and the Willow revelations re: Buffy's resurrection and tara's death were quite touching and most interesting.

I think the bank robbing was what really happened. I think the demon thing was telling the truth. Buffy sees herself as larger then life, she leads all these extraordinary young women, she protects the outside world, but ignores there laws to do it.

mikey3319

01-07-2008, 10:07 AM

DUDE YOURE MESSED!! The art looked just like the real cast!! I dont know what you were smokin' when you read this.

Edit:

Just read it, and the first thing i've gotta say is, god the art sucks D= it's almost as bad as After The Fall! The only recognisable person is Kennedy

Thoughts:

What was the deal with the broken magic egg where future Buffy gets hurt?

What made Buffy want to rob a bank? and how'd she get the slayerettes to go along with it?

Who has to win the war for magic to die? Twilight or Buffy? Up until now, it looked like Twilight, but after this issue, i'm not so sure

Why does Buffy think that Willow's a demon?

And a great quote from this issue

Xander: You ever see the first guy Buffy slept with in college?
Dawn: Riley?
Xander: Oh how she wishes

:lmao:

the art was perfect, looked just like the cast

sosa lola

01-07-2008, 10:12 AM

I also thought the art this time was better than all times.

Clem Rocks

01-07-2008, 11:02 AM

DUDE YOURE MESSED!! The art looked just like the real cast!! I dont know what you were smokin' when you read this.

Edit:

the art was perfect, looked just like the cast

The only issue so far that has perfect art, is part two of No Future for You, where it actually has Anthony Steward Head on the cover!

Rowan Hawthorn

01-07-2008, 11:53 AM

Man, I didn't think the show had been off the air that long. The art was okay - it's a comic, after all, I'm not expecting photo-realism - but it in no way looked just like the real cast.

LittleMissLikesToFight

01-07-2008, 01:47 PM

Willow, besides the cover, looked nothing lik her. The cover was insane though, i mean it looked SO much like the both of them! Its my favorite cover so far (and of what ive seen of the future issues).

I just got it today by sheer luck... I went to my local comic book store... they said they were sold out already and it wouldnt be in til next week if they ordered more... i left and the boy working the counter chased me down and said they found one! Talk about lucky! I thanked them a million times over. Now i know to not even wait a couple of days and to go the day of release!

Anyway, i am CONFUSED. I will definately have to read it again. I'm not sure what happened, what was the future, what was just lies... maybe im just slow i don't know.

Poor Dawnie, we all make stupid decisions we have to live with... and Xander was so understanding. And omg so funny when he's "in the frilly" and she's like "relax, its a camisole" haha! Very cute.

And i also liked... "bette-not better! less better!" when Willow was descending haha the dialogue in this one was definitely some of the best. Love the double Christian Bale thing too that was sooo funny.

VisionGuy

01-07-2008, 01:56 PM

This was a good episode (yes I call them episodes.) It felt like an actual BtVS episode to me because the dialogue was spot on. Although I'm starting to get pissed at TFAW for sending me the freaking variants. It's been three issues already. They should just let you pick what cover you want.

LittleMissLikesToFight

01-07-2008, 02:26 PM

Yeah i got 2 variants, one i was upset about, the other was cool. But think of it this way, since variants arn't really sold themselves, they may end up being worth money in the end.

GATEGOD

01-07-2008, 02:33 PM

I got the normal cover where she and Buff are flying, I love it :)

tommy

01-07-2008, 07:31 PM

Can chime in now.

Ok so, breaking Buffy and Willow apart felt a little too easy to me. They've been keeping some of their feelings hidden but it's not like there's been major backstabbing. Best friends since high school, you'd think they could shrug it off. It's understandable that Willow would want to keep Kennedy for herself, away from danger Buffy. She was possessive over Tara at first even without a prior lost love as a consequence of Buffy time.

I felt the same way about the Buffy/Giles divide. I think the old Buffy and Giles would talk things through properly and work out their problems. After all they've been through a simple misunderstanding has come between them and neither party are rushing to fix things. It's interesting anyway, these cracks in the team, even though it was a bit rushed.

The war of magic seems like the perfect thing to put Buffy and Willow on opposite sides. Buffy would want to restore the world to normal, rid it of demons and dark magic, but Willow will certainly not want to lose her powers and may try to reason that magic can also do a lot of good. It could come to blows. We saw a snapshot of the future: a tearful, broken Buffy on the floor as a result of "Betrayal. The closest, the most unexpected." The closest...

Dawn's revelation that she cheated on Kenny does a lot to explain her behavior so far this season, her reluctance to detail what happened until now.

This month's demon was dumb - I don't get it! It's a big mouth with arms and wings and four human-like faces in squares.

Funny lines:

Willow: So the mysterious benefactor bankrolling the slayer army...

Buffy: It's all insured! It's a victimless crime! And we totally found a Watteau the Nazis hid and sent it to the Tate! That happens in a minute! It's only money...

VisionGuy

01-07-2008, 07:36 PM

So Kenny made Dawn big because she cheated on him. Isn't that kinda like a Vengeance Demon? Is that what a thricewise is?

Senior Watcher

01-07-2008, 08:15 PM

i cant help but wonder: is there a "twicewise" or a "oncewise?"

.........i was wise once :)

Clem Rocks

01-08-2008, 07:51 AM

So Kenny made Dawn big because she cheated on him. Isn't that kinda like a Vengeance Demon? Is that what a thricewise is?

I'm guessing the Vengeance-ey part of what he did to Dawn was just an abuse of power, so i doubt it

Windowlicker

01-08-2008, 12:53 PM

omg how awesome was this issue !!!!!!!!!!
i Properly felt at home again with the gang for the first with the comics.
and i LOVED the art so much, i never really liked the others artists that much at all to be honest, i couldnt picture the actors saying the words or hear there voices in my head with the other issues, but with this one it just worked for me. can not wait for 11 !

LittleMissLikesToFight

01-08-2008, 01:00 PM

yeah what WAS up with the little human face squares on the demon... big "huh" there. It just looked funny. Like... T.V. screens stapled to a demon.

GATEGOD

01-08-2008, 02:37 PM

yeah what WAS up with the little human face squares on the demon... big "huh" there. It just looked funny. Like... T.V. screens stapled to a demon.

All his faces, whatever that meant :p and always showing them unlike us humans

nerd4hire

01-08-2008, 03:30 PM

Just when you think this series can't get any better, it does eh?

What? Nobody's going to mention naked Willow and the snake woman? Cause I saw that, and went "What the...".

GATEGOD

01-08-2008, 03:33 PM

Just when you think this series can't get any better, it does eh?

What? Nobody's going to mention naked Willow and the snake woman? Cause I saw that, and went "What the...".

Now seeing that on T.v.!!!! would have rocked. :whistle:

nerd4hire

01-09-2008, 04:16 AM

It could come to blows. We saw a snapshot of the future: a tearful, broken Buffy on the floor as a result of "Betrayal. The closest, the most unexpected." The closest...

So Buffy is now at odds with everyone close to her except Xander.

Does that mean anything, I wonder. Will he be the betrayer?

Angel's vision

01-09-2008, 05:48 AM

I think it may be will because of what watcher1986 said; The war of magic seems like the perfect thing to put Buffy and Willow on opposite sides. Buffy would want to restore the world to normal, rid it of demons and dark magic, but Willow will certainly not want to lose her powers and may try to reason that magic can also do a lot of good. It could come to blows. We saw a snapshot of the future: a tearful, broken Buffy on the floor as a result of "Betrayal. The closest, the most unexpected." The closest...

Dawn's revelation that she cheated on Kenny does a lot to explain her behavior so far this season, her reluctance to detail what happened until now.

Buffy's behaviour is rather hypocritical and it may isolate people around her....

nerd4hire

01-09-2008, 11:30 AM

So you mean you think it's Willow who will betray her?

tommy

01-09-2008, 06:22 PM

I think that's what we were lead to believe, yeah. After hearing of the act of betrayal, Buffy even accuses Willow - "Is it you?" - while Willow is anxious to get out of there quickly, saying the demon is playing with them. But nothing is ever predictable in Buffy so we'll probably be guessing for months and still be surprised when we find out how Buffy gets beat up and heartbroken. Yeah, that broken red egg/orb thing over one of the doors looks significant.

"If things get dicey, I get slay-ey." :)

Senior Watcher

01-09-2008, 06:52 PM

Just when you think this series can't get any better, it does eh?

What? Nobody's going to mention naked Willow and the snake woman? Cause I saw that, and went "What the...".

mmmmmm naked willow......mmmmmmmmm.

MrGordo

01-09-2008, 11:41 PM

OMG can't wait to get this!!! someone PLEASE post scans of all the cameo goodness! (Tina Fey??!)

tommy

01-10-2008, 12:12 AM

Tina Fey was in one funny panel. A Willow fantasy.

Robin's character, i was a little disappointed. i thought the whole idea was that the competition winner was supposed to have some huge part in this comic. not be someone's 'minder'. i was expecting her to be some sort of Slayer or something. maybe she'll show up later and have a bigger part.In the letter page, the real Robin's husband says she has schizophrenia, she's in and out of coherence. It makes sense that her character is in these unstable realities with real and not real events all mixed up. Willow comments that she didn't volunteer for it - she was chosen. Also in the letter, her husband says she can relate to characters like Drusilla and River. In the comic, Robin says something that doesn't seem to make sense: "The important thing is that you rescue the prince." It's all tailored to the contest winner.

CharmedSlayer85

01-10-2008, 01:05 AM

I dont' get what Willow meant though about bringing Buffy back is what ended her relationship to Tara. I don't have the issue yet so I went off wikipedia. Also I would think the betrayer would be Xander, cause I mean technically speaking Willow already betrayed Buffy when she went evil and Xander has been the most loyal to Buffy aside from the time they all kicked her out the house. And Buffy robbing a bank I could totally see that, because power can corrupt and we've seen Joss do that with Faith and Joss' whole point of Faith is this could easily be Buffy and I mean now Buffy has all of these girls with power to look after and she's the strongest and most experienced of them all and let's not forget she has a superiority complex and they need the money. So I could see it happening, which makes me wonder are the Twillight really the bad guys or is it Buffy and her gang. Cause remember the Twillight said Buffy and her slayers will wipe out all demons and because they have no more demons to fight the demon in them will look at humans and go after them, which brings up the point that they brought up in season five but never really went back to, how much of the slayer is demon and how much of it is human and if the slayer really taps into that demon aspect of her how powerful could she get?

Ashxking

01-10-2008, 05:44 AM

Willow betrayed Buffy at the end of Season 6 by trying to kill her best friend. It migh be the all the scoobs who turn on Buffy.

Angel's vision

01-10-2008, 06:40 AM

Could also be that the "Wake up" spell plan will turn against her .... wasn't agood idea anyway .. I'm thinging Gigi will have something to do with it, they both have superiority complexes.

tommy

01-10-2008, 10:06 AM

I dont' get what Willow meant though about bringing Buffy back is what ended her relationship to Tara. I don't have the issue yet so I went off wikipedia.She could have moved on, moved away with Tara and the others, started a new life and been happy. But instead she revived the slayer (who was quite happy in heaven herself) and put Tara in danger by keeping her near the slayer who is like a big target, and it got her killed. So Willow feels responsible - her love would still be alive if Buffy stayed dead.

Edit:

Wow, I just saw the reply from Robin's husband on Wikipedia after they received the issue.

I can't get over how breathtaking this issue is. I loved Robin's role and Joss wrote her perfectly. It seemed like she stepped right into the comic!
It's been very helpful, too, just this week. She's had a lot of episodes lately where she thinks people are coming after her to wrap her in barbwire and put her on the train to Hell, so she needs to find her tickets. I'll just remind her of the (incredibly accurate) metaphors that Joss used in the issue and she was able to come out of it easier. The visuals helped bring things into perspective that Buffy and Willow really are there for her.

-------------

If I may share a moment that just happened, Robin was just yelling about monsters trying to come in the house to kill her. I reminded her that Buffy and Willow are every bit as real as those monsters, and then I held the comic in front of her. It took a moment to process, but then she said, "I'm a minder. Buffy and Willow's got my back!"
I said, "That's right. If anything tries to mess with your mind, they'll kick butt and cut tails off."

"Yeah!" Her face brightened and her face went "normal" again. "Can I have some decaf coffee?"

"Sure, sweetheart."

"With marshmallows?"

Her episodes can last a lot longer than that. I could have been working with her all night, the poor thing terrified that she wasn't safe. But not with that comic, and I'm not fooling her, either. Buffy and Willow really ARE as real as her hallucinations. They're a part of all of us.

I also keep reminding her that fellow Buffy fans all over the world are rooting for her and it means so much to both of us. Thanks again for everyone's support.

nerd4hire

01-10-2008, 01:49 PM

Well now, that is cool. I know a little bit about schizophrenia. Read a bit, knew someone, met the odd schizophrenic in a job I had. I was under the impression a lot of it was controllable with drugs, but I know there's quite a few different kinds of schizophrenia. I think autism is a kind of schizophrenia. Some people seem to think it's just split personality disorder, but it's not.

On Willow's problem with Buffy. My impression was Willow was thinking of her life as having 2 paths. The path that led to her and Tara alone, and the path that led to adding Buffy. The Buffy path in Willow's mind was one that led to destruction. She regretted putting Tara on it, and wasn't going to do the same thing with Kennedy.

So here's a thought...If Kennedy returns, and dies, how pissed is Willow going to be at Buffy. I still think that stone Willow's wearing in the upcoming cover to #13 looks like Anya's vengeance demon stone. What a twist that would be eh? If Willow took D'hofryn up on his old offer.

GATEGOD

01-10-2008, 02:30 PM

Evilyn

01-10-2008, 07:41 PM

I don't think it will be Willow that betrays Buffy. I mean if you really think about it, Willow would probably want the world as back to normal as possible so she could have a "normal" life with Kennedy. She wouldn't need to use magick if there were no demons or other baddies to worry about.

Buffy on the other hand seems to be taking more advantage of her power and would probably be the one that wouldn't want the world to be normal again. Because if they did away with magick and there were no more demons and vamps and mystical things then there would be no Willow, Angel, Spike, Dawn or other slayers. She really would be all alone if that happened.

alexa

01-10-2008, 07:58 PM

Haven't read everyones posts yet, seems like I have so much extra to read when I finally get my issue but here were my initial thoughts.

Got this today, I am so ordering from kings comics again, got it in 2 days.
So I just finished reading it.. I did enjoy it, but left me feeling a bit sad. And actually a little pissed off at Willow. Her fears about putting the woman she loves in danger by being around Buffy aren't really fair. I suppose if I think about it, it makes some sense, but what happens to Buffy isn't her fault. Don't like being annoyed with Willow because she's my favourite character.. but yeah. Seems like I had a different reaction to most people I'm still in the 'Kennedy is a brat' camp. Used to like her, but seen more bad then good.
Although this makes more sense to me now. Back when Angel season 5 aired I didn't understand why the scoobies would be all separate.. especially Willow. Seems like Xander is really Buffy's last true supporter.. in a way. And I will not be happy if he turns out to be the betrayer.
And the Buffy being a thief ... um wtf? Talk about a departure from her character. She sounds like Faith, actually worse then Faith justifying herself. I'm not sure what to say about that.. still in shock :p
Wouldn't mind seeing more of what Willow was up to. And all the weird talk I still didn't get a grip on.
Kenny still sounds like a dick to me.. suppose Willow can change her back now?

I read a lot of posts on another forum and I think I sort of agree that if Buffy is going further and further dark, she does need a betrayer.

Clem Rocks

01-10-2008, 08:19 PM

A few theories of what will happen and who will betray Buffy:

Willow struggles to let Kennedy be around Buffy and when she finally lets it happen, Warren kills Kennedy. Willow blames Buffy and turns on her.

Or

The closest thing to a Slayer = Other Slayers. Maybe something happens involving Gigi wanting to get rid of Queen Buffy, and someone else becomes the Slayer Queen, and all of the Slayerettes choose her over Buffy! =O

alexa

01-10-2008, 08:56 PM

Good and scary thought about Warren killing Kennedy.
The scene where she is betrayed though.. she's somewhere in the Scottish castle, all cut up and beaten.. crying. It's really pointing to something and someone really personal who could upset Buffy so much.

Clem Rocks

01-10-2008, 09:02 PM

alexa

01-11-2008, 01:57 AM

I think I agree with you. I do think the important betrayer would be one of the core 4, but I can see Buffy laying there because the slayers attacked her perhaps.. maybe not Twilight. Can see it happening.

Allycat

01-11-2008, 06:21 AM

Remember that Twilight said that he had a "man on the inside" ... I take that to mean the betrayer is already betraying.

Just a quick question about "Dead Buffy" and "Willow and the Snake-Lady". I gather that "Dead Buffy" was something in the future, but was "Willow and the Snake-Lady" something that was still to happen too? I thought it already happened; I thought that was her mystical trip that Kennedy reffered to.

Cordelia Chase*

01-11-2008, 09:42 AM

Canon Watch (Spoilers for current issue) - Page 3 - Buffy-Boards (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=32610&page=3)

Now Im thinking that WIllow will betray Buffy or atleast know who will. The only way I see Buffy crying is from the cause of Willow, Xnader or Dawn.

I think the slayer girls are with Kennedy. Maybe they planned an attack against BUffy because they think what she is doin is wrong.

tommy

01-11-2008, 11:53 AM

HYAP!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Deliberator/buffy-season-8-issue-10-pages-previ.jpg

LittleMissLikesToFight

01-11-2008, 12:07 PM

haha Hyap must be the sound one's ass makes when hitting the ground.

alexa

01-11-2008, 05:38 PM

Lyri

01-11-2008, 05:40 PM

that's what i thought it meant...that she wanted to pretend the whole thing never happened.

nerd4hire

01-11-2008, 09:14 PM

The Willow with the demon lady is something that has happened. Willow says next 'I was never naughty here' (here being Buffy's castle) - so she is referring back to when she was naughty. Seems to me she was getting information from her.. we don't know why. Some have suggested to bring Kennedy back to life...

Took me a while to realize that the demon was showing them scenes from the past and future - not just showing them, but taking them to where it happened to witness it.. kinda like the ghost of Christmas past/present :p

Now that is an interesting theory. Especially the part about how if it's in the past it may suggest the snake lady thing has something to do with Kennedy's mystical death.

This demands a full investigation I think.

So Sephrilian is this demon who generates a field in which future, present, and past go wonky. Even Buffy and Willow aren't always certain where they are or when, so it's understandable we might have a similar confusion watching them.

He tells them to look, and the four screens on back of his tail separate revealing a blinding light.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/4screens.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/1screenoflight.jpg

Willow (I think it's Willow) isn't even sure where they are.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/Willowlooksintoscreen.jpg

He shows them a scene from Buffy's past where her and a group of slayers rob a Swiss bank.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/SlayerrobSwissbank.jpg

Buffy is not liking having to explain this. She's tries to make excuses to explain it. She looks over, and sees another vision developing.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/Ayoubadthing.jpg

Notice she sees it from where she is in the castle. Notice Willow is still watching the bank scene from the same vantage point.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/WillowandSnakeWoman.jpg

The next time we see Buffy and Willow they're still at the castle.

Robin asks them How things are going. Buffy replies, "more like where", then inquires of Willow, "Will?".

But Willow and Robin are watching something to the side of Buffy. Will says, "I was never naughty here. I don't even..."

She then asks Robin "Robin, has this happened yet?.

When she talks about "being naughty", I'm going to suggest she's talking about the sexual experience with the snake woman, just because that's the way Willow would describe it.

What are they watching? Whatever it is Willow asks "has this happened yet?"

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/RobinBuffyWillow.jpg

But Robin is now looking over at something off to the side. She says.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/RobinReplies.jpg

All 3 of them look over to see what Robin is looking at.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/3sidewayslooks.jpg

This is what they see.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/InjuredBuffy.jpg

Later Sephrillian shows them an incident involving Willow and Kennedy. It is an incident from Willow's past.

OK, so here's what I think we can agree on. Sephrillian shows them four scenes. 1 is from Willow's past. 1 is from Buffy's. 1 appears to be Buffy's future. When is the 4th taking place. I say until we're told different all indications are it's the future.

Clem Rocks

01-11-2008, 09:39 PM

Think the only thing that confuses me about the issue is the last line by Buffy. When she tells Robin is was demons playing games (Willow mentions that he's playing with them before). But does she mean that she wants to pretend it didn't happen?

i took it to mean that she thought of Willow as being a demon, seeing as it shows Willow when Buffy says it, and the earlier line from Willow "Let's play a game"

alexa

01-11-2008, 10:40 PM

Wow you guys are confusing me, lol.
I originally thought that way n4h, but now I'm pretty sure that when Willow says 'here' she's talking about the castle - before they were in the swiss bank and then possibly in the woods with the demon lady.. but it's not certain. When Willow asks 'has this happened yet?' I thought she was referring to whatever was happening in the castle, which turned out to be Buffy beaten.
I guess this non-linear stuff leaves a lot up to interpretation.

nerd4hire

01-12-2008, 01:41 AM

OK, here's me smiling, because here's what I think I'm hearing. You originally thought like me, but since that time a superior line of reason has appeared showing you why a statement that doesn't really make sense actually does.

Cool I'm always willing to learn. Share.

Wilow says she was never naughty here, and asks if this has happened yet.

You would have me ignore the fact they have been pointing at visions happening in different locations of the castle, and saying stuff that sounds like "look at what you're doing over there". We must also choose not to notice Robin and Willow appear to be watching something out of frame when Willow says she was never naughty here.

Very well I will force my brain to think that way, and await the revelation. OK, so now Willow is standing in the castle. Saying she was never naughty here. You tell me "I'm pretty sure that when Willow says 'here' she's talking about the castle - before they were in the swiss bank and then possibly in the woods with the demon lady".

So Robin appears, and Willow feels obliged to tell her she (Willow) has never been naughty here. Now if I was Robin, and Willow offered me up that little random tidbit, I'd be thinking, "Jeez, and they think I'm crazy".

You say, "When Willow asks 'has this happened yet?' I thought she was referring to whatever was happening in the castle, which turned out to be Buffy beaten."

But they hadn't seen the scene of Buffy been beaten yet. Oh wait a minute. I think I may be starting to get something. Are you saying that as this conversation is going on, the scene Robin and Willow are watching isn't Willow and the Snake Lady? It's beaten Buffy. I don't think you are, but wouldn't that be interesting? It would put the "I've never been naughty here" thing into a whole new context. It would mean destroying Buffy was in Willow's plans. But seeing as Buffy is there wouldn't she realize this? Is that the point though? Is that what really separates Buffy from Willow at the end. She found out Willow had dark plans of treachery against her.

No wait. I'm not going to go there. It's Occams Razor time. Experience has taught me it's better to go with the simpler, more rational explanation. I let you guys talk me out of the simple explanation once before with Tsatsu and the cinnamon lip gloss. It seemed obvious to me Tsatsu was the one who kissed Buffy awake, but I let myself be convinced it was just Joss throwing out red herrings. Then with Ethan Rayne and the XXX thing, it was obvious XXX is 30 in Roman Numerals, and Ethan says he's Roman. The conclusion was the number 30 had something to do with Ethan. But everybody had these marvelous, complex theories of what XXX could mean, and I let myself be seduced away from reason, and simplicity.

Not this time. Buffy and Willow are walking around the castle watching visions of past and future events. 2 are from the past. 2 are from the future. They see a vision of naked Willow and a snake woman. In the next scene Robin has appeared. Her and Willow are watching the scene. Willow says "I was never naughty here" in the same way if you were watching a film with somebody, and you'd already seen it, you might say "watch what happens here". She then asks, "Has this happened yet?" She's still talking about the last scene we saw - Willow and the Snakelady. That's the simple, reasonable explanation. That's the one I'm sticking to.

Hah, bet you though you had me there for a minute, didn't you, you tricky vixen you. Getting my brain all muddled up with complex possibilities...:fighting1 ;)

alexa

01-12-2008, 02:14 AM

LOL ok I'm really bending my brain now.

I am saying that Willow and Robin aren't watching the snake lady (because they're in a new setting). I am saying that they are not always in the castle.
I totally thought the way you do, but then I mentioned this over at [insert other name of buffy forum that I don't think I'm allowed to] and they suggested what I posted. And when I put it all together it made more sense.. to me anyway, obviously not to you. ;)

It looks like this demon is able to take them into various scenes: > Swiss Bank > Forest > Castle. Did you see it another way? Like Swiss Bank > Castle > Still Castle? Buffy and Willow are always together looking in.. there is this continued foggy kinda thing around them as they do... so it made sense to me that as they went through this they were looking at the Swiss bank, then they were shown and or taken to the forest/demon lady. Maybe they can see both of these at once, or maybe one is gradually revealed as another one fades. Hmm I suppose as I look at it, it might be something that hasn't passed... but it still makes sense to me that it could be the past.. it's just that Willow doesn't talk about it, or explain ...other then her comment about not being naughty here (and by that she means she's never been naughty in the castle - because she was being naughty in the forest - thus possibly confirming that her nakedness with the demon chick has happened). At least that's the theory.. I'm totally lost now.

Maybe it doesn't matter yet, because it will be revealed to us later?

nerd4hire

01-12-2008, 04:47 AM

Maybe they can see both of these at once,

There's no maybe about it. They can see both both at once.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/Ayoubadthing.jpg

You see this is what I've never understood. I used to notice it with the TV series too. The writers will tell us something, and it will make perfect sense if we choose to believe what they tell us. Instead people invent these strange ways of warping what they see to make things mean something else. Those things don't make sense. The next thing I hear is how crappy the writing is, because the story doesn't make sense.

Did you notice there are four screens of Sephralian, and there are four scenes. Let me show you the difference between good fanwanking, and bad fanwanking. OK first of all we're going to believe what the script tells us. In the script we see the characters looking over at different scenes appearing before them. Willow actually points at one. Buffy says "Look", and points at another. Later Robin is commenting about something she doesn't think Sephralian would show them, and she's looking to the side. Willow and Robin appear to be looking at something as Willow comments on it. We see that and we accept the fact they are seeing the scenes they are commenting on from the vantage point where they appear to be (the castle) rather than invent a vantage point there's no evidence for. We accept what the script tells us. Now we think to ourselves hey there are four screens of Sephralian and four scenes. We saw the four screens separate from Sephralian before the visions. What if each screen can form a kind of holographic image. Now all of a sudden it makes sense why Sephralian would have 4 screens on its tail. That to me is an acceptable fanwank, because it's created out of script fact, and it offers explanation to something we previously had not explanation for.

Hears what an unacceptable fanwank looks like. We say the characters are not seeing these things in the castle, even though we actually see them in the castle looking at them. We say they are actually going to the places where the scenes take place. We then choose to see Willow as popping back into the castle to say to Robin out of the blue "I was never naughty here. I don't even...Robin, has this happened yet?" The comment makes no immediate sense, so we invent an irrational context for it. In other words we fanwank based on absolutely nothing to create a new story the writers have offered us no evidence for.

BTW, you did see the smoke is in the castle, right?

You do understand don't you, that if Robin and Willow are looking at the scene of the Snakelady, as they appear to be doing, while Willow makes her comment then the comment makes sense? In your scenario the comment doesn't. It doesn't matter if you heard your theory at the international institute of Buffology. The comment the way you're interpreting it doesn't make sense.

Angel's vision

01-12-2008, 06:14 AM

Well now, that is cool. I know a little bit about schizophrenia. Read a bit, knew someone, met the odd schizophrenic in a job I had. I was under the impression a lot of it was controllable with drugs, but I know there's quite a few different kinds of schizophrenia. I think autism is a kind of schizophrenia. Some people seem to think it's just split personality disorder, but it's not.

Autisim isn't a mental Illness it's brain damage. My brother is autistic, prone to tantrums because He can't express himself well
I know autisim can be in mild to severe forms, I've met people with mild and severe myself, I think autisic people can have schizophrenic tendances in terms of mood swings but that's as close to autisim as it gets.
But that letter was very moving to say the least!

Clem Rocks

01-12-2008, 07:43 AM

Allycat

01-12-2008, 11:15 AM

Seeing as the 4 screens are starting to get mentioned, i'm surprised that no-one's pointed out that they each seem to have different expressions, the different expressions could tell what kinds of visions he is showing. To me, the faces look like shocked, sad, angry and calm, so i'd say

Buffy robbing the bank = shocked
Buffy getting betrayed = sad or angry
Nekkid Willow and snaked woman = calm
and...interesting, only 3 visions, i'm sure the Willow and Kennedy thing was just Willow telling Buffy about it, not a vision, so what was the 4th one?

I think most people on here think that the Willow/Kennedy scene was a vision too, but I'm with you on this one in saying that it was just a flashback. It would be boring to have Willow simply tell her story to Buffy. Showing it in pretty pictures is just much more effective.

The way I see it, there's only three visions. During all of them, Buffy and Willow (and Robin) are surrounded by fog, which lifts to show them a vision.

During the first vision Willow and Buffy are looking at the scene while commenting, but at the end Buffy notices the second vision.

How exactly the transition from the second to the third vision happens we don't know. I don't get where the notion that this third vision takes place in the castle comes from. Sure, it looks like an old place. But it could be a crypt, monastery, church, temple, underground lair, or basically anything. Even if it is a castle, there's no way we can know that this is the Slayer's castle.

When Willow says "I was never naughty here" I think what she means is that she doesn't recognise the place and thus is pretty sure that it's not Sephrillian showing a vision about her.

Again, the alleged fourth vision is simply a visual representation of what Willow is telling Buffy.

I think this is a very difficult issue to interpret correctly, but given the content and source of inspiration for it, that is how it is supposed to be.

PS: Was it just me or did Buffy's pose, wounds, outfit, remind anyone of the decoy's death in The Chain?

Lyri

01-12-2008, 11:23 AM

they're not exactly the same (Buffy's pants are green, the decoy's were red) but nice catch, Allycat.

nerd4hire

01-12-2008, 01:07 PM

I was just calling Sephrilian's lair a castle because that's what it looks like. I don't know what it actually is.

Nobody else thinks there's significance to where the characters are looking preceding each flashback/forward, do they? Preceding the Willow/Kennedy thing Willow says she won't betray Buffy, then...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/betrayaleyes.jpg

One thing about the snake lady, I kind of expect to hear about her again. This one might be actually provable, past, or future. If I'm wrong, boy is my face going to be red.

Allycat

01-12-2008, 01:25 PM

In the example you posted, I think that's just Willow looking away, because she's embarrassed. And I agree with you that the snake lady will probably return in some way, shape, or form... preferably an equally nude shape, way, and form.

nerd4hire

01-12-2008, 01:36 PM

The Buffy/Willow one is posted above where they're pointing at a past and upcoming vision. Here's Robin preceding the injured Buffy vision.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/JimJohn/RobinReplies.jpg

alexa

01-12-2008, 05:25 PM

The more I think about it Willow didn't confirm it (naked snake lady action) as being something that happened in her past or future. Maybe we're meant to be a little lost in this issue.. actually I'm sure we are. It's deliberately non linear.

I get the 4 scenes thing, 4 faces. It's all about the characters telling lies also, and The Demon of Christmas Past/Future :p was interested in exposing these lies.
I'm not sure if the scene with Buffy beaten is in the slayer's castle, it's just a fair bet because we haven't seen any other castles really yet.

You do understand don't you, that if Robin and Willow are looking at the scene of the Snakelady, as they appear to be doing, while Willow makes her comment then the comment makes sense? In your scenario the comment doesn't. It doesn't matter if you heard your theory at the international institute of Buffology. The comment the way you're interpreting it doesn't make sense.

Yes I do get this, but it was plausable to me that Robin and Willow aren't looking at the snakelady, they're looking at the new reveal of Buffy beaten, because then Buffy turns her head that way also to see it. If they are looking at the snakelady then totally makes sense that this thing with Willow hasn't come to pass (because of what she says). But because they are in a castle now (I didn't notice they were before.. apart from the dark staircase thing) so it says to me it's probable that they're about to see a new vision and thus looking at it. After the vision with beaten Buffy is over, notice how the castle fades away.

Hmm anyway, don't think I could try to make that theory make sense anymore then it does to me. I find myself somewhere in the middle now, both theories make sense in my head.. conveniently ;) I think we'll figure out more later, but nothing seems crystal.

Black Eye Guy

01-12-2008, 06:45 PM

Cool issue, Really enjoyed it. Those few extra pages made it seem allot longer.

That snake lady reminded me of that place Willow went to when Warren was cutting out her eye, but she isn't in that issue, but Kennedy may have explained that place and how Willow knew those "people", with Willow going on a "Six Month Mystical walkabout?

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 04:21 PM

Rowan Hawthorn

01-17-2008, 06:08 PM

What did Robin mean when she says "The important thing is that you rescue the prince?"

and Robin and Willow know each other? And Im under the impression that they may have kinda of been physical because of that mini section when WIllow says they have to wait til the morning and robin says we have to find a way to warm up. She was leaning on her.

Huh? That wasn't Robin. That was Willow's contribution to the game of "Anywhere But Here": snowed-in in a snug cabin with Tina Fey (she even calls her by name in that panel.)

alexa

01-17-2008, 07:50 PM

Well at least some people might be more confused then me ;) I assumed the prince bit was just illustrating that Robin's mind isn't all there because of the big burden she has.
Anyway I just noticed this red egg thing. Someone mentioned it to me before but I thought it was some weird kind of broken light bulb. It's in the castle scene where Buffy is beaten and crying.. wonder what that's about.

tommy

01-17-2008, 08:39 PM

When I read the issue I didn't think that the future bit might be set in Castle Buffy. If that is the castle, have we seen the red egg thing in an earlier issue, perhaps in an unbroken state?

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 08:49 PM

okay. Im way confused but...that still doesnt explain how WIllow knows who Robin is.

And now I see the TIna Fey thing.

Rowan Hawthorn

01-17-2008, 09:02 PM

There really hasn't been any explanation yet.

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 09:03 PM

Okay...and the four faces showing the four events. The fourth event has to be the kennedy one right??

alexa

01-17-2008, 09:06 PM

Okay...and the four faces showing the four events. The fourth event has to be the kennedy one right??

Yeah possibly, but looks like a regular flashback to me.. but it's not certain.
It's ok we're meant to be confused with this issue ;)

Cordelia Chase*

01-17-2008, 09:09 PM

I know but I like being unconfused and coming to the light with a big "Oooooooooooh!!" LOL

Cordelia Chase*

01-18-2008, 06:41 AM

Speaking of Minderr, was Druscilla one?? SHe was real loopy!

Allycat

01-18-2008, 12:38 PM

I think the four faces merely relate to the fact that he only has four emotions; anger, happiness, sadness, and fear... all very uncomplicated emotions. Whereas the human face has like a gazillion tiny muscles that can give it any shape we want.

Xander

01-29-2008, 05:44 PM

Minor unimportant nitpick but....Discussion of Episode 8.10 "Anywhere But Here" Released 01/02/07

Ronin

01-29-2008, 06:27 PM

This is kind of a small thing, but did anyone else think that Xander was somewhat out of line telling Dawn about Buffy having sex with Parker? He did a similar thing at the end of season 6, when he told Dawn about the “attempted rape”, it seems that that was something that Buffy would’ve told Dawn had she wanted to, which she clearly didn’t. Also, with the whole Parker thing, Buffy even talked about bad sexual experiences in her monologue at the end of issue 1, and had she gotten Dawn to open up to her, might have used that as a point of common ground in which to bond over, much the same way they did in the Season 7 opener when Dawn misses the vampire’s heart and Buffy tells her that she did to on her first attempt. Anyway, what do you guys think?

Spike Angelus

02-05-2008, 08:21 PM

Just read this one tonight. I have to admit, as much as I like Faith, I was a bit tired on the "No Future for you" story.
So, both Buffy and Willow have done a few bad things. I have to admit, didn't see that coming.

Astral Weeks

04-01-2008, 07:29 PM

What did you guys make of the vision of Willow having sex with that Green Demon Snake Chick (I can't believe I just typed that sentence)? It was certainly interesting and I was surprised that almost nobody had anything to say about it. It appeared to me that she was trading sexual favours with a demon in return for magical instruction/power. Certainly an interesting insight into Willow's character if that is what she was doing . On the other hand maybe Willow seeked out magical instruction from the demon and they became hot for each other and had an affair which would be a replay of Willow’s relationship with Tara. And I like the idea of Willow having a torrid fling with a demon. Why should Buffy be having all the naughty fun?

Anyway we don’t have enough context to know what Willow was doing but it’s fun to speculate.