The First taking on other forms

[Andrew Wells]

I was going through season seven again, and I was thinking about all of the other forms the first could have taken on. .

Off of the top of my head I would've liked to seen:

Angelus-I believe he was the big bad that hurt buffy the most.
Harmony-Just because she makes me laugh.
Principal Snyder-especially since Sunnydale high was reopened during this season.

What buffy/angel characters did you wish the first would have turned into?

[Keanoite]

Angelus would have been great to see, more of the Master, Darla? Dru?

[Rebecca]

We saw quite a bit of Dru when they were "torturing" Spike. Drusilla drives me mad anyway!

I'd have liked to have seen Jesse talking to Xander in conversations with dead people, might have been interesting. Snyder would have been funny too as said in the first post

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

Snyder actually would have been REALLY funny, talking to either Xander or Buffy at some point.

[Lyri]

how funny would Snyder and Wood have been? Snyder telling Wood off for not running the school the right way!

personally, i would have liked to have seen Kendra show up, either with Faith or Buffy. that would have been a great scene.

[Keanoite]

Oh Buffy and kendra would have been a fantatsic scene! I'm with Lyri!

[VisionGuy]

These would have been good.

Glory talking to Dawn.
Kendra talking to Faith.
Jenny talking to Giles.
The Master talking to Buffy.
Jesse to Xander.

[Lyri]

Glory talking to Dawn.
Kendra talking to Faith.
Jenny talking to Giles.
The Master talking to Buffy.
Jesse to Xander.

now THAT would have been a 'Conversations with Dead People' worth watching!

[Andrew Wells]

These would have been good.

Glory talking to Dawn.
Kendra talking to Faith.
Jenny talking to Giles.
The Master talking to Buffy.
Jesse to Xander.

I agree completely...I thought Jenny in Season Three was very effective and creepy as the first. Giles and her would have made a great scene. Also it would have been good to see more scenes with The Master & Glory...I always thought they could have done more with the big bads from previous seasons.

[VisionGuy]

Well Robia LaMorte is a born again christian now. Maybe she didn't feel comfortable playing the manifestation of pure evil. I remember reading/hearing somewhere she didn't even like it in season 3. Eric Balfour, I don't know what his story is. Maybe he moved past the whole BtVS thing. He probably wasn't even considered. The others would have been great to have.

[Lyri]

isn't Balfour a regular on 24 now? or rather, then? probably didn't have the time to shoot even a small scene.

what bugged me was bringing back The Master and Glory for less than 30 seconds each. putting that guy in all that make up for just seconds of screen time. i mean, The Mayor got to come back later on, i think The Master and Glory should have gotten the same opportunity. plus, anytime that Glory's on screen is just great TV. and Clare's awesome, it would have been great to see her one last time on the show.

[VisionGuy]

isn't Balfour a regular on 24 now? or rather, then? probably didn't have the time to shoot even a small scene.

what bugged me was bringing back The Master and Glory for less than 30 seconds each. putting that guy in all that make up for just seconds of screen time. i mean, The Mayor got to come back later on, i think The Master and Glory should have gotten the same opportunity. plus, anytime that Glory's on screen is just great TV. and Clare's awesome, it would have been great to see her one last time on the show.

You're forgetting Adam. He was in a crap load of make up. LOL

[Lyri]

i knew i'd forgotten someone! can you imagine sitting in a chair for hours and hours, getting all of this gunk slapped on your body and then you wind up being on screen for 10 seconds. i hope they could paid a boat load of cash!

[VisionGuy]

I think Clare looked beautiful as The First. Way better than she did on season 5. Did anybody else notice that? LOL

[Lyri]

i totally agree. but then again, i think Clare always looks beautiful.

who would Adam have had his little conversation with? Spike?

[VisionGuy]

I don't think Adam was relevant enough to anybody. The First didn't need his appearance in my opinion.

[Vicariously]

Deffinately Jenny Calender and Giles
Kendra and Buffy would have been great too.

I think also The Master (didnt we see the master for a matter of seconds when it showed the first changing into so many diffrent big bads?) who so intimdated Buffy. oh and Dracula!!! remember how she was so easly lured to him?

Glory talking to Dawn would have been good too (or did she?)

The episode was kinda a blur but I remember how good it was to see Joyce and Dru talking to spike again. I mean Dru always anoyed me but it was sweet her and spike you know?

their breakup and seeing Spikes love for her is what originaly made me start to feel for his character.

[Andrew Wells]

isn't Balfour a regular on 24 now? or rather, then? probably didn't have the time to shoot even a small scene.

what bugged me was bringing back The Master and Glory for less than 30 seconds each. putting that guy in all that make up for just seconds of screen time. i mean, The Mayor got to come back later on, i think The Master and Glory should have gotten the same opportunity. plus, anytime that Glory's on screen is just great TV. and Clare's awesome, it would have been great to see her one last time on the show.

I believe that Glory was supposed to be in "Touched" with The Major, but Claire had a prior commitment. She was supposed to be in the form that the first takes in the basement, but instead they used buffy again.

I would have loved to have both Glory and The Master in that final scene before the big battle. Both should have gotten more screen time, and it would have brought the show full circle to have the master be the last form the first takes.

[definition of insane]

I can see Spike's vampy mother playing mind games with him in Sleeper....you know, even though he knows he dusted her to still have her being all grossand perverted and what not. After he was already thinking it to take it that step further.....

[SH3RRI3]

I would have loved to have both Glory and The Master in that final scene before the big battle. Both should have gotten more screen time, and it would have brought the show full circle to have the master be the last form the first takes.

I completely agree. Didnt in the first episode the master in the form of the first say they were going right back to the beginning or something. i think it would have been great to have him in the final episode as the first

[Jules]

These would have been good.

Glory talking to Dawn.
Kendra talking to Faith.
Jenny talking to Giles.
The Master talking to Buffy.
Jesse to Xander.

Those sound perfect! I would have changed The Master to Angelus though, just to see DB in those leather pants again lol

[Xin Rong]

Jesse would have been interesting, kinda full circle

[angeldork]

A lot of people are saying Angelous cause he was probably the one person that terrorized Buffy the most. But instead of Angelous, why not Angel? The First took the form of Buffy's mom, Tara (I think), why not him? Sure Angelous brought her the most pain, but Angel is the one person that she loves more than anything. If the First really wanted to **** with Buffy's head and her state of mind. It definitely would've made a lot more vulnerable.

[BuffyBloke]

Didn't the First at one point take on the form of Jenny in season 2 or 3?

[Allycat]

angeldork: The First was supposed to take the form of Tara, but Amber didn't feel right about comming back as something evil... and/or there was something about conflicting contracts.
BuffyBloke: The First appeared as Jenny in the season 3 episode Amends.

I think it would have been interesting to see the First as Merrick or Lothos; two characters from before Buffy came to Sunnydale.

[Blondie Bear]

I think it would have been interesting to see the First as Merrick or Lothos; two characters from before Buffy came to Sunnydale.

Can you see Joss EVER working with Donald Sutherland AGAIN? Ha! And, sure, they could have gotten the dude who played Merrick in the flashback in "Becoming," but that wouldn't have been the same. No emotional impact. Actually, I don't see either of those characters having an emotional impact. The MOVIE didn't have an emotional impact. If it had, if Joss had been able to keep the movie true to his original vision, I can absolutely see that being very interesting. But since he couldn't, well. . . . (shrug)

Edit:

Allycat agrees: Which is where the Origin comic comes in.

True, but that still wasn't a part of the show itself. It would be the same as if, say, Giles had actually died and the First was borrowing his form.

[Atren]

Imo the First was a fool when it came to taking shapes to use them. There are two forms that were by far most damaging that it nearly ever used properly -- Buffy and Spike. Both of them are considered alive (in a sense) by rest so using them properly can be of great use. Just think what all it could have gotten rest to do if had appeared as Buffy to them?

[SC7 Fan]

angeldork: The First was supposed to take the form of Tara, but Amber didn't feel right about comming back as something evil... and/or there was something about conflicting contracts.
BuffyBloke: The First appeared as Jenny in the season 3 episode Amends.

There was meant to be another episode after Chosen. Buffy was allowed 1 life changing wish. She would have spent the whole episode deciding what to wish for and at the end she would go up to Willow and tell her that she just got a great new pair of shoes. Willow would have asked her if she spent her wish on shoes and Buffy would have said no silly, then she would have stepped aside to reveal Tara. But AB wasn't available for filming so they didn't film it.

[LorneyTunes]

Merrick talking to buffy would have been so interesting x

[Five]

Adam would have been boooooooooooooring imo.

However, you people have really good ideas. Especially about Jesse talking to Xander... Kendra to Faith... though I think Jenny talking to Rupert would have felt a little too déjà-vu.

[Keanoite]

I'm still rooting for Angelus (of the Buffy seaon 2 variety) taunting Buffy...and maybe a really cruel, evil Joyce. That would have wrecked Buffy for sure.

[Lindsey McDonald]

I think a loving, caring Joyce would have wrecked her even more. Well, unless you're talking about a "Mother's milk is red today" Joyce. Nothing can top that.

[Keanoite]

I'm thinking a You're-the reason-me-and-you-father-broke-up Joyce or a you-could-have-saved-me-if-you-had-reacted-better Joyce. Little doubts or insecurities that Buffy has anyway and The First/Joyce exploiting them cruely.

[Superstar]

Here's are some of the questions that come to my mind, and yes I'm aware that I tend to analyze things sometimes too deeply...

Why was The First only able to take on the form of a dead person? Why not a living person?
What's more, the merged personality of the person in question is also present with The First. "Good" or "Evil".
What exactly does that mean regarding their soul(s)?
How does that relate to Buffy and her soul while dead?
Was she "at peace" simply because The First had never assumed her form previously?

The First's goal was to enter every being on earth, living or dead.
What was the ultimate goal of such a task?
Physical manifestation only? If so, why the desire to enter everyone?
Is the lack of physical manifestation the only thing preventing entry of the living?

These are the types of things that go through my brain.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Is the lack of physical manifestation the only thing preventing entry of the living?

Sorry, this one made me lol! Someone should have told non-corporeal Spike. Harmony was sitting right there the whole time! :whistle:

[Primal Slayer]

ya I think when it came to The First taking on a form of someone, they totally missed out on some true golden moments.

The First couldve have weakend the scoobies so easily if it thought about it.

Appearing as Jennie to Giles would have probably struck a blow to him.

Using Jesse to make Xander feel bad about his "best" friends death

Kendra/Merrick/Angelus to get underneith Buffys skin.

These just wouldve been such great moments.

[angelchick182]

I agree, I think there were a lot of missed opportunities with The First, and you guys have suggested some great characters that could've come back as The First and been really effective. Of course, I understand that there were probably some real life complications that made some of the actors' appearances impossible.

Speaking of which, I know that Amber Benson didn't want to reprise the role of Tara within the context of Season Seven's storyline, and I really did enjoy the episode 'CWDP', but I just couldn't get into the Willow/Cassie scenes as much as I should've. I don't have an issue Azura Skye or her character in the episode "Help", but I just don't feel that it was anymore effective than if they'd used a character that we'd never seen before, other than the fact that we knew she was dead - so it brought a little believablitly to the fact that she could've really been a conduit to Tara. I just think it would've been a little nicer to see a character that there was a little more emotional investment in.

[Five]

Can someone tell me exactly why Amber didn't want to play her part again ? I've been willing to know but never found it on the boards, sorry if I looked wrong...

[angelchick182]

Can someone tell me exactly why Amber didn't want to play her part again ? I've been willing to know but never found it on the boards, sorry if I looked wrong...

It's been said that she didn't want to reprise the character in that context. She would've come back to play Tara, as she was, but she didn't want to come back as Tara/The First. Basically, she wanted her character to be remembered for good and didn't want her last appearance to be remembered for evil.

[RockManic]

I actually thought that a really great but missed opportunity was the First appearing as Hank Summers. Naturally after having the real Hank murdered by Caleb, of course. Imagine how much the First could have messed with Buffy's head if in the middle of a conversation between Buffy and the First in the form of Buffy's mum it had shape-shifted to appear as her dad. The sudden realisation that Hank was dead on Buffy face alone would have been all the reason the First needed to do it. Would have made for an incredible scene for SMG to work with.

Sticking to people we knew were dead though, I'd have to agree with the Jesse/Xander convo. Really wish that could have happened. With the whole theme of coming full circle in season seven it would have been perfect. And maybe also have had the added bonus of giving Xander another quality scene in the final year. Making a grand total of two. ;)

[hyperballadbrad]

I think all the forms the First took suited their purpose in the story excellently :D

[Gilesau]

Angelus would have been good.
Snyder
Glory/Ben

[white avenger]

It just occurred to me that, even though she was never shown on the show, and only mentioned once, Faith's old Watcher, who was probably the only other person who had ever been a parental figure to her besides Wilkins, would have been good. She could have been as ambiguous as Joyce was. Is she an agent of the First Evil, or working for the other side? I think that would have been interesting.

[hyperballadbrad]

It just occurred to me that, even though she was never shown on the show, and only mentioned once, Faith's old Watcher, who was probably the only other person who had ever been a parental figure to her besides Wilkins, would have been good. She could have been as ambiguous as Joyce was. Is she an agent of the First Evil, or working for the other side? I think that would have been interesting.



Great idea!! :D

Definately would have been interesting to see!