Discussion of "Angel: After the Fall #3" Release 01/16/08

[David]

After the Fall#3 review (http://buffyversecomics.blogspot.com/2008/01/o.html)
So we can all geek out over the fabulous new issue.
I simply have to talk about that ending. Good God!

Any thoughts

[Tranquillity]

I loved this issue!
I knew Spike couldn't have gone 'bad' - feel very much vindicated that he is still one of the good guys and working with Connor no less. I'm dying to know how they came to team up. I always thought they'd get on well - much to Angel's chagrin.

And that ending. Whoa - what a ripper. Can i say it yet? It certainly explains why he was using that little creature to heal his wounds in #1. I wonder if it is permanent though or a result of the dimensional shift - what with the werewolves feeling both human and wolfy, the vamps feeling both euphoric and spontainiously combustable and the primordial demon king getting time manipulation powers back. At the moment i'm suspecting that when (if) they get LA back to where it belongs then his new found status will go too.

Can't wait for next month!

[Senior Watcher]

*the release date is 1-16-2008, not 1-16-2017 like the thread topic states*

im sorry guys, but im still not into it (and i desperately want to be).

first lets talk about the artwork: i think the artists version of the characters is poorly done. they hardly look like the real actors. im also having trouble with illyria having a big chest; no offense to amy acker, but she doesnt have big ones. its not a secret; they even made dry-humored remarks about her chest on the tv show version of angel.

second, lets talk about the story: it still hasnt grabbed me. i feel as though IDW got too excited about having a new angel story line (after watching how popular the buffy, season 8 comic became), that they missed the point: if its not good (no matter if joss is involved or not), noone will buy it. now, you can argue that by asking, "if its not good, then why has it gone to its 3rd printing?.......what i have to say to that is this: alot of people (including me) are so excited about a continuation of angel that we bought the comic without care of the quality of work inside it. further, the first issue may have gone through three printings, but i predict that you will see a drastic decrease in sales now that we have 3 issues of a 'hard-to-swallow' story line and drawings.

third (and final), someone explain to me what happened in the frame where illyria exits the dragon? is she spit out? does she bust through the dragons belly? i see the dragon says, "ptuy" (or something of the sorts) so i think it spit her out, but the belly of the dragon shows a huge explotion?!

i give it a 4/10.

[CharmedSlayer85]

Yeah I've read all three issues of After The Fall and I can't seem to get into it. I mean first of all they COMPLETELY destroyed the mystery of the Buffy/Angelverse by making ALL of LA one giant hell. I mean that gets rid of the mystery that demons exist cause I mean now the whole world should know about demons if all of LA has become one giant hell hole. But I must say one thing that shocked me is Angel no longer being a vampire. I wonder how that worked out seeing as he signed away his shanshu prophecy. I wonder if Spike's still a vampire, also I wonder if they're gonna kill Gunn or find some way to make him the third vampire with a soul. But yeah this Angel series is interesting to say the least but doesn't seem to have the same pull as the Buffy series.

[Evilyn]

Okay, so I haven't gotten the issue yet, but spoilers don't bother me, hence I'm in this thread. Actually, I like spoilers because it gives me something to look forward to. Anyhoo, so Angel isn't vamp, but is he human? It's gonna be another week before I can pick this up, so I'm dying to know. I mean, cuz if he is and they pull another IWRY and take it back, I'm gonna be sooooo agitated.

[Tranquillity]

At the moment all we know is that Angel is not a vampire. it doesn't say he's human (though that would be the natural assumption) and it doesn't say that he shanshued (as many people on other discussion boards have assumed) - much more yet to be revealled on that front.

third (and final), someone explain to me what happened in the frame where illyria exits the dragon? is she spit out? does she bust through the dragons belly? i see the dragon says, "ptuy" (or something of the sorts) so i think it spit her out, but the belly of the dragon shows a huge explotion?!

i think the huge explosion was because when the dragon spat Illyria out she hit and destroyed the 'blood fountain' with force so it went kaboom.

have to say that i'm completely engaged with the story and most of the feedback i've read for After the Fall has been really positve especially for this issue. I don't think there will be a problem with the general Angel-appreiciating populous thinking its not good. At least i hope not.

[Cordelia Chase*]

I agree! I enjoyed the first two comics and now Im addicted. I have to know whats next.

I dont think it'll be any less sales. Just a difference of opinion among different people. Thats all.

[Clem Rocks]

Haven't got this issue yet, but after reading this, all i have to say is: Angel's not a vamp anymore? O_O

[Cordelia Chase*]

Not a vamp but maybe something else. Stronger. I mean after all he is in hell. Or atleast a type of hell. WHich as I can see has many mysteries. But yea..I need to get this ep...i mean comic.

[Clem Rocks]

Oh, so he's maybe like in his Plyean form?

[Cordelia Chase*]

The pure demon thing?? Just maybe. Thats what I was thinking about the sun and the moon being out. Maybe the sun is like it was in Pylea.

[Clem Rocks]

Two suns would kinda be the same as the sun and the moon...

[Angel's vision]

I haven't got the issue yet but i need spoilers to wet my appetite for when I get round to buying it, I.E Monday.
So he may not be a Vampire anymore, but that doesn't mean he is not a demon, of sorts, maybe this altered sate has effected him like Nina but in a different way. So the Question is what about Spike? is he still Grr? To quote Cordelia.

[Allycat]

OMG, great issue... even better twist!

Angel no longer a vampire... what's that all about? Has he shanshu-d? Since Gunn IS still a vampire, I suppose whatever has happened to Angel has not affected all vampires in LA. So, Spike's probably still a regular vamp too, I would say. I knew Spike couldn't have turned evil... and it seems Wesley might not have either. To challenge all the lords seems to be one of Angel's rashes decisions ever, but maybe he has a plan. Although, you have to ask, if killing a bunch of demon leaders got you into the mess your in, will it be the way out too?

I wonder if maybe one of the champions is gonna be Groo? (Or that other character from the past that's supposed to show up.)

Question: Is the Lord of Santa Monica Teeth, the Loan Shark, from Tabula Rasa?

As for the art, I agree that it doesn't always look like the actors, but it DOES always look like the characters. There's a big difference.

[Clem Rocks]

I haven't got the issue yet but i need spoilers to wet my appetite for when I get round to buying it, I.E Monday.
So he may not be a Vampire anymore, but that doesn't mean he is not a demon, of sorts, maybe this altered sate has effected him like Nina but in a different way. So the Question is what about Spike? is he still Grr? To quote Cordelia.

He's embraced his role as Champion of the Powers.

Anyway just read it and i gotta say, best issue yet! Some good ol' fighting and some of the art wasn't terrible! =O

And it was nice to see some of the Wesley questions cleared up ^^

[Clem Rocks]

Quick question: Timeslips, one is when Angel was Liam, one is when Angel was a "wee little puppet man", one is (i assume) Angel as a baby, what's the other one? Angel in the future or something? He looks kinda older =/

[tommy]

sure, why not. maybe he's human now so his future-self won't look the same age.

[Allycat]

The decor looks kind of futuristic too. We can only guess (or in case of Bangels.. hope) that it's a human Angel in the future.

[Wicked]

Love it. Did not see the ending coming but Im waiting for more story before I have an opinion on what happened. Theres so much we dont know yet.

[GATEGOD]

So Angel has been Shanshued or what not? I liked this one alot! Only bad thing was that Gunn wasn't in it. But I like that it's building up to a big fight all against Angel.

[Ashxking]

Dont think Angel is human. If he was wouldnt the punishment Illyera dished out have killed him?

[JCC]

What if he's a human that still has supernatural powers, they've just been demeaned?

[Keanoite]

What if he's a human that still has supernatural powers, they've just been demeaned?

I think that is what has happened. After what happened in IWRY the Powers would know human Angel isn't enough. Or at least I hope it's what happened.

[Clem Rocks]

I think that is what has happened. After what happened in IWRY the Powers would know human Angel isn't enough. Or at least I hope it's what happened.

The PTB don't need Angel any more, they have Spike.

Dont think Angel is human. If he was wouldnt the punishment Illyera dished out have killed him?

That's what i was thinking, that knife into Angel's throat didn't look very much like something a human would just get up and walk away from?

[Keanoite]

The PTB don't need Angel any more, they have Spike.



That's what i was thinking, that knife into Angel's throat didn't look very much like something a human would just get up and walk away from?

True but if he did Shanshu then they would be the ones responsible for his new found non-vampireness

[Ashxking]

What if the Shanshu isnt about being human? Angel knows what that will mean in to long run. But He can live and love and has had the demon taken out of him. Thats what he has wanted for so long. A daywalker. All of there powers none of there weakness and no gypsie curse to boot

[Keanoite]

What if the Shanshu isnt about being human? Angel knows what that will mean in to long run. But He can live and love and has had the demon taken out of him. Thats what he has wanted for so long. A daywalker. All of there powers none of there weakness and no gypsie curse to boot

That's another interesting question...is the curse still intact now?

[Clem Rocks]

Didn't the tv version of season 6 have plans to separate Fred and Illyria? Maybe someone found a way to separate Angel and Angelus

[Angel's vision]

"And to heal from normally mortal wounds" Says he is demon in some form or other, as for TPTB only needing Spike and not Angel *cough cough*
Don't surpose the whole demons arguing about wether to kill Angel and W&H want him alive gives a clue,both sides still want him.

My theory is that Gunn is playing them, just to revenge his condition. There was a clue in the letters page about why Buffy hasn't turned up, they said it maybe because she can't, so there you go, we'll just have to wait and see.

This Issue is starting to pick up, and although I feel it is too short still, it does make you want to buy the next Issue just to get more clues, it's like we're being teased slowly about what is happening.

[alexa]

Just got this today.. I noticed the 'biggest spoiler ever' stuff around the internet, then people posting in the Bangel thread.. you guys got me excited for a crossover or something.
Anyway my first reaction to the big news was actually 'oh :eek:.. huh?' because it happened in a comic. It's just such a huge deal I'm a little sad that I didn't get to see it on tv. But it is awesome.. seems like he shanshu'd. He did deserve it.. Angel gave it up for the benefit, or so he thought, of others.. but then is rewarded with it anyway. Although.. not much of a reward when you're in hell anyway. Does Spike know? You think he would.. being able to smell each other and all that. Wesley presumably knows? But why is W&H bothering with Angel anymore if he's human.. assuming Wesley told them.
Illyria sort of annoyed me.. plus I was so confused. She was all over the place. Why doesn't Connor think Angel is on his side?
And I'm not even sure what to think about the whole he can be with Buffy now if he wasn't stuck in hell thing.

[Allycat]

I just wanted to point out that it's not been confirmed yet that Angel is in fact human. The only thing he's said is that he's no longer a vampire.

Also, we've always been working under the notion that the Apocalypse that earns Angel (or the vampire with a soul) his shanshu was the same one as the Apocalypse that W&H has been planning. What if they are two separate things? Maybe W&H's plan was for Angel to shanshu all along, because they think Liam was much more corruptible?

[Keanoite]

But Angel shanshuing doesn't mean that he will revert back to Liam. Liam is dead. Angel human is the same person just with a heartbeat.

[Angel's vision]

True but he will be a different "Liam" to the one before siring.

[nerd4hire]

Does it mean anything that Angel's blood is black in the comic, or Illyria refers to him as half of what he used to be, after he takes a swing at her?

[alexa]

Why the talk about Liam? ..Angel is Angel.. he's himself.. just not a vampire.. Go back and watch IWRY confused peoples :p
Yeah I noticed the black blood.. I assumed it was just a crappy colourist? And when Illyria said he was half.. I assumed she meant because he was human now (re-reading).. or at least not as strong as a vampire. I'm also assuming he's human.. don't know for sure.. but most likely.

[GATEGOD]

That is why he needed to use that thing to heal himself in the other issue I assume.

[Keanoite]

Black like Caleb's blood?

[Allycat]

Sorry about the confusion about Liam/Angel. I just used it as a way to differentiate between Angel as a vampire and a human. I'm well aware of the fact that Angel wouldn't revert back to his historic persona if he became human again.

As for the black blood. In Issue 1 (coloured by Ilaria Traversi) the demons Angel fights in the beginning have red blood, as do Kr'ph's henchmen. Also, Angel has a red blood stain on his shirt, when he walks into W&H; it would seem that it's his blood, as on the same location he applies the healing-creature. On the final page with Gunn, his (human) female victim has red blood too. In issue 2 (coloured by Jason Jensen) the blood fountain is red too (although, we don't know the origin of the blood). On the last few pages when Spike and Angel exchange fist, you'll notice that both Angel and Spike bleed black blood. The third issue is again coloured by Jason Jensen. Beside Angel's blood, we also see some blood on the face of the (presumably human) security guard (which is black too) and when Illyria is spit out by the dragon she is dripping with black blood too. Although, she's just been thrown through the fountain, so we don't know whose blood that is.

To be honest, I really don't know what it all means. I'm going to go with it being a style-choice. But if there is some kind of a meaning to it, I'm sure as Hell(.A.) not getting it.

[Clem Rocks]

I think the blood is black just to make the story seem darker