1/29/08 - 2/7/08 Episode Discussion: Passion

[SpikedBuffy]

Well, this episode should generate tons of responses here. We are discussing season two's phenomenal episode Passion.

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I love this episode. The main thing that I like about this episode is near the end when Buffy gets the call from Giles (or whomever) to let her know that Jenny had been killed. With the music combination going on there as well as Angel's voiceover, it just gives me the creeps. I absolutely love it!

And your comments?

[Lyri]

i love this ep. that scene is one of my faves of the whole show. Angelus' speech about passion is one of the best monologues of either show, and DB delivered it perfectly. Jenny's death was shocking and sad, but perfectly played by the two actors.

the final scene in the factory, when Buffy chooses to save Giles instead of going after Angelus, and the following alley scene with the Slayer and her Watcher was heartbreaking, when Buffy tells Giles that she can't do this without him.

Stakes: 4.5

[Bored of the Dead]

Passion is the greatest episode of the series and I have to say it is probably the greatest 42 minutes of TV ever.

I don't think I can do the episode justice by going into detail because basically it would be quicker and easier to just watch the episode.

It is Effing awesome.

[Tranquillity]

I think that this episode is when it dawned on me just how revolting and twisted Angelus was and not in a 'Deliciously evil' kind of way. It wasn't so much that he killed Jenny - he was evil, that was to be expected, but the fact that he goes to all the trouble of setting her up in Giles bed, the wine, the note, the music, the petals and then really gets off on watching Buffy anf Willow's reation to the news. it was blood chilling. This is such an amazing episode!

[Joyce Summers]

The best episode of the season. Not my favorite, though I do love it, but I definitely think it's the best.
It's so powerful and moving. And I don't think I've ever watching it without crying. Actually Tranquillity got the word spot on; blood chilling.
The Voice-overs by Angelus always reach and move me. They are so freakily true that it can't help but resonate with you, but the fact it is Angelus speaking makes the words much more twisted and disturbing.
And when he's watching Buffy and Willow recieve the news that Jenny is dead, that definitely is blood chilling. It kind of makes you feel sick- the fact that he's essentially, getting off on their pain and loss. He wants to watch how they react. And I like the way that scene was shot. That we just see Willow completely break down into sobs, like she just can't take it, and while Joyce is hugging her we see her daughter slide to the floor in almost catatonic shock and horror.
And then we have the fight. Giles actually kicks Angelus' ass. For a little while anyway. And you know the only reason Angelus pointed out the danger Giles was in was because Buffy was mad enough (at him, at herself) that she would have killed him right there and then, and would probably have done it.
I do love how she chooses to save Giles though; shows their bond even more. And the scene outside where they break down in each other's arms. It's very moving and I just love.

And that piece of music- Remembering Jenny- that also tugs at the heartstrings too. God, I'm an emotional wreck; let's face it.

[Cangel]

God, I love this episode. Angelus' speech about passion at the beginning and end just made me shiver (in a good way).
Here for the first time we see the true, pure nature of Angelus, how twisted he is. Before we only heard about his deeds from Giles or Angel, we could never grasp the full essence of Angelus' mind.
And I've got to say, I always loved the way Angelus plays with his victim. It's like art to him.

[Kemy]

I love the monologues in this episode, haunting and chilling, a true insight into the mind of Angelus and his artistic flair for killing.

I felt so bad for everyone in this episode, the Scoobies I mean, I may not have liked Jenny all that much but it was a terrible way to go.

I think it has some of the, probably most emotionally powerful scenes in the show. Its always sort of difficult to watch.

[ndrocksteady]

This is definitely one of my favorites, if not my favorite episode. I can never get tired of watching it. The monologue is so awesome that I memorized it lol. and I dunno, the episode just has this effect over me.... it really was like a turning point in the season, we actually see what Angelus is capable of doing. And i find it weird and creepy how, like willow says, buffy's still the only thing he thinks about.

[SpikedBuffy]

Do you think that Giles and Jenny would've gotten back together in this episode (if it happened that she was still alive?) We see that Jenny has been trying to get Giles back, and now finally he seems ready. What do you think might have happened?

[ndrocksteady]

Do you think that Giles and Jenny would've gotten back together in this episode (if it happened that she was still alive?) We see that Jenny has been trying to get Giles back, and now finally he seems ready. What do you think might have happened?

i definitely think they would have gotten back together, or would have made things better between them.....

[wiccianslayer]

Defo i think they would have had to get back together it was obvious they cared for each other

dare i say
they we're in love with each other?

[Bored of the Dead]

Jenny was Giles 'the one'.

Of course they were getting back together that night.
He was only keeping his distance for Buffy's sake, just like any father would but when she gave him her consent he was beyond ecstatic.

This was love thats why Jenny was killed off.

[XDruX]

Yes, they would have definitely got back together. Just look at Giles' face when he reads the note. For me, if I remember well, he looks a bit shy but can't wait to see her. That's why the scene when he sees her dead is even more tragic. For me, this episode was "awful" because of how Jenny's death was set up.

[palabravampiress]

I loved this episode! I can't think of a single thing I'd change. Not a single thing. Well, okay, maybe I'd do without the double bookend voiceovers. That's just a matter of personal taste. I'm not usually a fan of voiceover unless it is a really clever stylistic thing. But that's it; I promise!

The cinematography was beautiful. A lot of the shots just took my breath away. My favorite was a subjective POV shot in which, from Angelus' POV, we see Buffy right as she answers the phone to hear Giles deliver the news of Jenny's death. Her face is slightly obscured. She smiles under great lighting. It's just beautiful. The dialogue was spot-on. Some of the best. The plot arc was perfect. Jenny's death was probably the best death up until Joyce's. This is one of those masterpieces of TV that I really wish I'd written, myself. The acting was brilliant. AH really delivered a great performance when Willow heard the news. DB had Angelus mastered by this episode. He was a thrill to watch. And don't even get me started on ASH; I'll swoon until the sun comes up! Everyone involved in the making of this episode did a phenomenal job. Superb.

And yes, I think they'd have gotten back together. Was there ever any doubt? I mean, Giles didn't think he was going upstairs to find Jenny dead... he thought he was going up there to get with the make-up sex!

One thing I liked about the Jenny/Giles relationship was how subtle it was. Because we were watching a show from a high school student's perspective, we only saw glimpses of Giles' private life. As the characters grew up, Giles accepted them more and more readily as adults and they slowly accepted him as a fully fleshed-out person, so we saw more and more of his inner life. This was one of those first early glimpses. It was the first time the gang saw Giles not just as their teacher, but also as a man who could love and lose and grieve and fight.

[Spike Angelus]

Just re-watched this episode. Angelus's narration of the episode not only gave us a bit of insight into his mind, but into humanty in general. When he sas that without passion, we're truely dead, he's right.
I cried when buffy and Willow found out that Jenny died. I felt for Giles. Having not seen season 2 in a few years, it's great to be reminded what great TV writing can do.

[GorramSpaceTrash]

It's truly has some of the great emotional highs of the show in any season - Giles finding Jenny's body, Angel watching Buffy get the news, and then Buffy and Giles holding on to each other as they cry in the rain. Fantastic. I think it's fair to say that any sympathy one can have for Angel's situation at this point is nearly gone. :)

[Spike Angelus]

It's truly has some of the great emotional highs of the show in any season - Giles finding Jenny's body, Angel watching Buffy get the news, and then Buffy and Giles holding on to each other as they cry in the rain. Fantastic. I think it's fair to say that any sympathy one can have for Angel's situation at this point is nearly gone. :)


I agree, and I think that was Joss's point. He wanted people to to hate Angelus, and make us think that the Angel we knew and loved was dead.

[Nabila]

My favourite scene here is also the alley scene with Giles and Buffy.

Giles telling Buffy this is not her fight is also Giles telling Buffy that it's not her fault that Jenny died. Despite his own pain, and rage, his priority is still to protect the sanity of the slayer.

Buffy telling Giles, she could not do this without him proves Giles right. He reminds me here that the slayer is still just so painfully young. She chose to save Giles first. Should that have been the priority of a slayer? She could have pursued killing Angelus right there. She chose instead to save a life first. That is also why I love Buffy.

Angelus was really hateful here, and I think David B did an excellent job. Even his act of tenderly touching Buffy's hair while she was asleep was a chilling, creepy moment for me.

Poor Jenny. She had to die in her prime because Angelus murdered a beloved daughter of her clan a century ago. She could not get out of the responsibility that she inherited. How unfair.

Yes, this was a great episode, and painful to watch.

[angeldarla]

passion is my fav ep from season2.
its very emotional and every scene is perfect.
Loved angel's monologue. it was very intensive.
the ep showed us a giles' weakness that we havent seen yet. i couldnt imagine that he was looking for angel after fiding jenny's body. i tought his first instintic was to look for buffy and let her do her work. but no. he prefered to do it with his hands. its understandable, cause jenny was maybe the love that he had never had.
the last scene in the graveyard was perfect too, because buffy finnaly realized that the angel she has known was now gone.

[scarybunny97]

This was the episode that made me realize that Team!Whedon was totally unafraid of going for full-on TRAGEDY . . . I mean, even Angel becoming evil after he and Buffy had sex, while it was brutal to watch, did seem a like a natural progression of events. Cursed vampire who can't have a single moment of pure happiness? *scoff* Well, eventually that one moment WILL happen. It has to. It's TV.

With "Passion," I saw the writers really go for the jugular, total heartless, pointless brutality . . . and it made for great emotional TV. I think a lot of folks started watching this show--especially early on--because oooohh, cool monsters! And heehee big funny! Chases, Fights, and Demons, OH MY! Y'know? But then we were surprised, impressed, and moved when the story then took us to such deep, dark levels.

And honestly, Boreanez impressed me more and more as the series went on. When he first showed up in the Pilot, I was pretty sure I had gone to High School with guys who had better acting chops than him. To his credit I think he worked very, very hard to dig into the craft and find those levels. Although not terrible, his performances had never really blown me away . . . until "Passion." It's one of the those episodes I never get tired of, due in large part to the sheer coldness of Boreanez's performance.

[Giants Rule 04]

In my humble opinion, "Passion" is the best episode of season 2, and one of the best of the series. Giles and Jenny were about to be reunited and you could sense his enthusiasm about that throughout the entire episode. That just made his heartbreak all the more difficult to handle when he sees Jenny and realized that she is dead.

If nothing else, this episode introduced Angelus to us; the real Angelus, that is. We had heard for a year and a half about how vicious, how evil, how heartless Angel's other half was. This is the first time that we experience that for ourselves. The ruthless fashion in which he kills Jenny and arranges her body to inflict maximum damage to Giles is unthinkable and speaks to Angelus' true nature. It was a very well written and well acted episode.

[TheHeartist]

Simply chilling. I remember watching it when it first aired, Angelus stalking Jenny through the halls, and I'm sitting there thinking ", someone'll show up and help her escape in a minute," but when she runs straight into Angelus on the stairs and he brutually snaps her neck I was like *sharp breath, eyes widened* "-OH!" Not many moments in T.V history have made me do that. A benchmark episode, especially for David.

[Blondie Bear]

This was one of the (many) episodes that made me wonder WHY people insisted on hanging out in the school after dark in a town known for its vampire activity? Even worse for Jenny, she knew Angelus was on the loose and that the school was one of the WORST places she could be. Didn't she have a computer at home?

[Cangel]

This was one of the (many) episodes that made me wonder WHY people insisted on hanging out in the school after dark in a town known for its vampire activity? Even worse for Jenny, she knew Angelus was on the loose and that the school was one of the WORST places she could be. Didn't she have a computer at home?


Not necessarily, didn't Jenny ask Angelus how he'd gotten it. IMO that implies she had no idea the school wasn't so save. This leaves us with some new questions, like why didn't she notice the school was so dangerous in 'School Hard' or 'Prophecy Girl', but anyway...
But yea, interesting question, like in episode one, why does the boy drag Darla to school with him?

[Blondie Bear]

She did ask him how he'd gotten in--after she witnessed a vamp stealing a book from the library in "Lie to Me." And she's supposed to be SO smart. . . . (I'm being more than a little sarcastic there.)

[palabravampiress]

Maybe she didn't have a computer at home? What was this, 1997? I don't think I had a home computer in '97. I'm just saying...

[Cangel]

Or she just liked to live dangerous, with Angelus on the lose and everything.
And I'm sure she had a comozter at home, maybe us normal people didn't have one (we got our first on in 98), but she's a computer science teacher.

[palabravampiress]

Or she just liked to live dangerous, with Angelus on the lose and everything.
And I'm sure she had a comozter at home, maybe us normal people didn't have one (we got our first on in 98), but she's a computer science teacher.

That does put a crimp in my theory, but how much was Jenny paid? I mean, weren't computers pretty expensive in '97? And teacher salaries are notoriously low. I'm still not 100% sold on the idea that a teacher, computer science teacher or not, would own a computer with internet access and the fancy translation software that she used in '97. I think it makes sense that those resources would only have been available to her at the school. Heck, the only friend I had who had a home computer with internet access and translation software was a friend whose father was a neurologist from India. She also had the biggest TV I had ever seen and a really nice house. I'm guessing Jenny wasn't on-par, salarywise, with my friend's brain surgeon dad.

[Blondie Bear]

I doubt a public school would have access to that sort of software, either. And didn't she say she was building the program herself? And besides, she had to know how dangerous it was hanging out at the school. Even if she was incredibly close to an answer, she'd have to know that if she didn't tell someone or keep herself safe, all that hard work would come to nothing.

Or maybe it's just me and my over-planny brain.

[scarybunny97]

I think the "why Jenny was using the school computer after hours when she probably has one of her own at home," issue boils down to: it is a bit of a "buy," like in a show about lawyers when one side manages to put someone on the stand at the last minute who would never ACTUALLY be allowed on the stand at the last minute, and when said witness is allowed to ramble on w/their testimony totally beyond the scope of the initial question and opposing counsel just, like, *sits there* . . . you just "buy it" because it's one of those things that happens in TV to move the story along. If you think about it too hard, the logic just isn't there, but it's not such a MASSIVE absurdity as to take you out of the story, so you buy it and move on.

The entire idea of all these Big Baddies coming to the Sunnydale hellmouth was another issue that was discussed on a BtVS related podcast, and the point was made that . . . um, with the exception of the 1st season, most of the baddies seem to be aware that there's A SLAYER guarding this particular hellmouth--but there is another hellmouth in Cleveland, and it's guarded by Drew Carey (to quote the podcaster). Why are the demons all so willing to hang in Sunnydale in close proximity to A SLAYER??? That's another "buy." The hellmouth concept makes the whole show work, so we just won't think too carefully about the underlying logic.