Faith Character Discussion

[SpikedBuffy]

Okay, trying to spice up this area of the boards, we should try to do some character discussions.

I got some good input from members about which episodes could be watched to discuss the character of Faith.

With that in mind, let's have a discussion of Faith's character throughout some pivotal episodes in the Buffyverse (and yes, we understand that she did grow in the Angel series- so just use some of that to help out your discussion if you'd like.)

Here are some of the episodes you might want to consider:
Faith, Hope and Trick (season 3)
Bad Girls/Consequences (season 3)
This Year's Girl/Who Are You? (season 4)
Dirty Girls (season 7)
Empty Places (season 7)
Touched (season 7)
End of Days (season 7)
Chosen (season 7)

As you're discussing her character, please use specifics from the episodes to help us understand where you're coming from. That will help out the conversation a lot!

I'm not putting a date limit on this one, so feel free to discuss it as you please! :)

[Elithustra]

Well, I don't think I can actually put specific episodes down, I have to admit it's been a while since I've seen Buffy, anything before about Season 4 in a long time.

But I daresay that what I found most interesting about Faith's character is that throughout the majority of her time, Faith always struck me as someone who wanted to be better, to do better, but could never quite manage it. I know this might come as an understatement, but I often wonder why it was decided, given the numerous supply of characters to work with, Joss decided that Faith should remain so volitile throughout the majority of her time. Could you imagine if halfway through her dealings with The Mayor, she'd had a change of heart?

[The Chosen]

Could you imagine if halfway through her dealings with The Mayor, she'd had a change of heart?

That couldn't have happened -- she truly thought the Mayor loved her. She didn't wanna lose that at any cost, so she kept doing what he said. For love.

Faith was an emotionally sick human being until Angel helped her out. I think that deep down Faith will always have a wierd thought system, but I also think that she's finally figured out how to control it.

To an extent anyway...

[FaithyFivebyFive]

I wonder how different things could've turned out if Faith never killed Finch. (That was his name right lol) in Season 3. Would she still have grown as dark as she did having actually killed him? Maybe in the end she would've been one of the fighters against the Mayor snake.

[white avenger]

I wonder how different things could've turned out if Faith never killed Finch. (That was his name right lol) in Season 3. Would she still have grown as dark as she did having actually killed him? Maybe in the end she would've been one of the fighters against the Mayor snake.


It stands to reason that the entire series from that point on would have become more and more different, possibly resulting in the elimination of any need for the two least popular characters in the entire series, Riley and Dawn. Without them, there would be no Initiative, no Adam, no Key, no Glory, no death/resurrection of Buffy. Without a chip, some other method of winning Spike over to the good guys camp would have had to be devised (possibly one of Willow's spells going wrong, with permanent results).

It would've been fun to watch a friendly competition develop between the two Slayers over Spike's affections, resulting, of course, in a torrid Faith/Spike affair with a progressively more and more broody Buffy developing. ( Imagine an evil Buffy at the end of Season 6 instead of Willow).

The "two Slayers upset the Balance" thing could've been still developed for Season 7, though a different reason for it taking so long to develop would've had to be devised. From that point, the series would pretty much develop back along the same lines as it originally did, with the exception of the elimination of the amulet, the activation of the Potentials, or the death of Spike (Willow finally gets a spell right, resulting in the collapse of the hellmouth).

With the hellmouth closed, a deeply in love Faith and Spike head off to Cleveland to patrol the hellmouth there, while Buffy, her broodiness having by this time reaching monumental proportions due not in no small part to 4 seasons of forced celibacy, heads off to L A in search of Angel, joining his cast for the final season of his show, where the mutual celibacy of vampire and Slayer result in more and more brooding and bantering, but a general acceptance of the fact that true happiness together will never be theirs.

The final scene of the final episode finds the two of them standing in the rain in a dirty alley, arguing over just why Buffy, finally fed up with all of the brooding, banter, and celibacy, is leaving Angel for Oz.

Fade to black from a close up of a smiling Buffy walking towards Oz's van while Angel sinks to a sitting position in a particularly large puddle of water, a broody expression creeping onto his face.

And that's how the two series would've developed if Faith had never turned evil.

[Tranquillity]

Bad Girls and Consequenses are two of my favourite Faith episodes. I always feel really bad for her. I always think that if Buffy had reacted a bit differently to the killing of the deputy Mayor then maybe she wouldn't have gone totally bad - at that time. I think it was always bound to happen though because her issue was really with Buffy not the killing. I mean, here's this girl from the wrong side of the tracks, absent father, drunk mother, basic education, tough life, who has always had to strive to get attention from the people around her. This is a girl who as a child climbed a big high rock that the older kids wouldn't climb so she could dive from it into the water to prove she wasn't scared and, one imagines, to gain notoriety and respect (she tells the mayor this story). As she gets older sex becomes the high rock. Its not about relationships, it's about getting what she wants and getting out before anyone gets too close and she risks getting hurt. And then one day, she gets chosen - she's the slayer. finally she's special, unique. But then she discovers the existence of Buffy. Buffy - 'Little miss Perfect' and she's everything that Faith is not (this is emphisised by the costuming in season three - buffy = feminine, Faith = sexy) Buffy is pretty (as opposed to sexy), she's clever, she's loved, she plays by the rules, she's the authentic real slayer - Faith is just the substitute. And while Buffy is around she always feels like second best. So when she accidently kills the deputy mayor (and it is an accident) her first response is remorse. She is sorry but Buffy takes the high moral ground and so this alienates Faith, makes her run in the opposite direction so to speak, sending her on her course of destruction.
I always find her relationship with the mayor intreaguing - I think they really did have a nice father-daughter type relationship albeit one that it rooted in evil but i do think there was genuine affection. I always find the Mayor particularly affecting when Faith is in the hospital. I loved seeing them again in season 8
It's also interesting that the one 'man' Faith has ever been able to form a connection with beyond getting 'bouncy' is Angel who just happens to be Buffy's guy at the time. White Avenger - In my dream scenario Faith and Angel would skip off to cleaveland together, the curse and brooding be damned! He always seems more in touch with himself, less divided in an Angel/Angelus kind of way when he was with Faith. i think i'll become a Fangle shipper:)

[Mesektet Ra]

That couldn't have happened -- she truly thought the Mayor loved her.

There is no thought - the Mayor DID love her. Nobody reacts like he did in 'Graduation Day' because his hired gun almost got killed - a father reacts like that when his daughter almost gets killed.

The only reason Faith ever turned dark was because of the Scoobs, I'm seriously and throughly convinced. Buffy can bitch and whine about how she tried to 'reach out' and 'include' Faith all she wants, but it never happened. There was never any genuine effort. And that was the last straw - Faith finally broke after an entire life of abuse and that kind of treatment. She turned to someone who she thought would need her, and found someone who loved her instead. So she stuck by him. I still feel that while she knew the Mayor was evil, a part of her will always be his daughter because he seems to have been the only person in her whole life who gave a damn about her well-being.

And, I mean, after an entire life of getting treated like shit, wouldn't you snap? It just seems logical. And the Scoobs were just too quick to be all, "Yup, Faith's evil, gotta kill her now." And a season later, Buffy swears like she actually cared. I don't buy any of that for a second. When it comes to Faith, I think Buffy was anything but genuine. She felt the same thing she felt with Kendra - here's some chick coming to steal my spotlight, gotta nip this in bud.

I'm trying to stir up any shit or whatever, but it's kind of a well-known fact I detest Buffy on many counts, her treatment of Faith being one of them.