Story Arcs

[Elithustra]

As suggested by Bored of the Dead, over in the Season Five Thread, perhaps this particular topic would have been more appropriate here.

I'll ask here, too!

What story arcs could have been left out of Season 7, in your opinion?

For me, I think the potential slayers was a bit... so-so. I mean, where have all these potentials been before?

[Twilight]

I liked the concept of the potential slayers I just didn't like most of the characters, there were just so many so there wasn't enough time to develop them well and the main characters.

[Bored of the Dead]

Principal Wood and his Mother Slayer!!!!

I think that this story would have better been served in season 5!!

I loved the idea of a Slayer having a kid but I think it should have been in the season Buffy was rediscovering what it meant to be a Slayer.
Having said that, season 7 was the perfect place for Wood/Spike.

Also I'ma defend the Potentials, I thought they were very important to the show and Buffy because to end the show they had to turn the 'one Girl in all the World' thing BUT it couldn't happen before the last episode.

[eunsoma]

The Caleb Bits.. I really didn't like him much, I think they should have ended the series with more 'Buffy-like' big bads, not a woman-hating religious icon... I think a big cliched lookin' demon would hav suited better.

[alexa]

Just a couple of things I didn't like much.. Kennedy.. or at least where they took her character. Miss Bratsalot, I was enjoying her character until they had her compete for Buffy's position. Which sort of leads me to the potentials. I get that they were needed, but you think we would have heard a little more of them before the last season on tv. I could get past that, but then they are everywhere.. and sort of saturated the storylines a little too much for my taste. Took time away from the core 4, or at least the characters we are already invested in.

[Elithustra]

Agreed. I just think it's a bit strange to expect that we would'nt ask 'Where have all these potentials been before?'. I think there were plenty of times throughout the entire series that we could have heard something about potentials. Dawn's arrival was hinted at from as early as Season Three, and yet for potentials, nada!

[Elithustra]

Sorry to double post...

I'd totally forgotten about that, but thereagain it's been a long time since I've seen Season 1-4!

[Tranquillity]

Yeah season seven was busy but i honestly don't know what i would have left out. i like the potentials - they are pretty important to the overall story, i think it adds to the season that all these nameless girls come in and we don't get to know them - it makes it easy to empathise with Buffy as she's in a very similar position. I always thought Caleb seemed sort of stuck in at the last minute but i can see his purpose to the overall story. I did always think it was a bit odd that the first went to all that trouble to control Spike then sort of did nothing with him. I know his trigger was deactivated but, still, why would this have stopped the first from visiting and messing with his mind - particularly in the final battle, the first should have had a crack at him to try and get him to kill buffy (I always assumed this is what was meant with the whole "its not your time" and all that). But then i suppose Spike got a pretty decent run in S.7 - just seemed odd in a narrative sense.

[white avenger]

As has been pointed out before, Season 7 had enough story arcs in it to have kept the cast busy for at least another three years, and it should most definitely be trimmed down considerably. The biggest piece of dead wood that I would remove would be the entire Willow/Kennedy thing, or, better yet, all mention of the First's plot to destroy the Slayer line. That would have given us a much more workable plot line, eliminating the need for the Potentials altogether, along with the Principal Wood part, unless he could've been working with Caleb, who in and of himself, with his army of Bringers, who could have been any other kind of minion just as well, would have made a perfectly adequate Big Bad. The return of an ensouled Spike and a reformed Faith ( a rivalry between Buffy and Faith over Spike would've made a great sub plot), making the whole season a perfect jumping off point for either a new Faith series, or adding her to Angel's crew (Angel could've used the facilities of W&H to either have the charges against her dropped or find some loophole allowing her to be on probation with him as her parole officer).

[ILLYRIAN]

I liked the series the way it was, I wouldn't remove any episode(s), if you did, something else would have had to replace it. To have had that ending other factors needed to be there. The potentials were a vital part of the end, to remove Caleb or the bringers would bring about the need for other characters to occupy the screen time, to me they fitted into the series well, plus Nathan is a very good actor.
It's okay to say I didn't like this character or that character, but in the end, you may have disliked the replacement even more, or heaven forbid ! ended up not watching the rest of the series.
Joss did a good job of blending everything together. Like I said its okay to speculate about altering this or that bit, but I liked the show the way it was.

[Bored of the Dead]

Yeah season seven was busy but i honestly don't know what i would have left out. i like the potentials - they are pretty important to the overall story, i think it adds to the season that all these nameless girls come in and we don't get to know them - it makes it easy to empathise with Buffy as she's in a very similar position. I always thought Caleb seemed sort of stuck in at the last minute but i can see his purpose to the overall story. I did always think it was a bit odd that the first went to all that trouble to control Spike then sort of did nothing with him. I know his trigger was deactivated but, still, why would this have stopped the first from visiting and messing with his mind - particularly in the final battle, the first should have had a crack at him to try and get him to kill buffy (I always assumed this is what was meant with the whole "its not your time" and all that). But then i suppose Spike got a pretty decent run in S.7 - just seemed odd in a narrative sense.

I am an advocate of the Potentials.
I think they are THE most important element of season 7 in the context of the Buffy story.

Her whole struggle has been about how she alone had to fight as the Slayer, her friends helped but even they didn't hold the burden she did. They at least could have a life, they may have helped in the fight which put them in danger but the Slayer has a Bona Fide expiration date.
The potentials brought that to the forefront of her mind and the end showed that she ould now have everything she wanted. I haven't read season 8 but I think that now she has been given that choice she will CHOOSE to be the Slayer because she knows its the right thing to do. Buffy hated the fact she had no choice in the matter.

Also, the power the First had over Spike was totally dismissed when the trigger was disarmed.
Adding a scene where the First tried to get Spike to kill Buffy and the others would have been pointless and add to an already busy finale.
I always assumed that the 'Its not your time' was for the final battle but Buffy and Co got there first.

I liked the series the way it was, I wouldn't remove any episode(s), if you did, something else would have had to replace it. To have had that ending other factors needed to be there. The potentials were a vital part of the end, to remove Caleb or the bringers would bring about the need for other characters to occupy the screen time, to me they fitted into the series well, plus Nathan is a very good actor.
It's okay to say I didn't like this character or that character, but in the end, you may have disliked the replacement even more, or heaven forbid ! ended up not watching the rest of the series.
Joss did a good job of blending everything together. Like I said its okay to speculate about altering this or that bit, but I liked the show the way it was.

ILLYRIAN agrees: As I put in my fanfic, the amulet was from God and as such the First couldn't get to Spike. The reason of the link between God and the amulet ? Who would want to destroy the evil more ?

Thats actually a rubbish argument.

If they trimmed down the pointless characters/story arcs they could have explored the basis for the season.
Without Wood, they could have really explored The First and made it the terrifying adversary that we saw in Amends.
If they took out Kennedy/Willow then they would have had time to explore more of Spike/Giles/Buffy.

Your argument that they would add something else we might not like falls flat because most people aren't asking for something to be taken out so something similar but different can be brought in, its so that storylines that were being played out could be properly explored.

Also your 'fanfic' suggestion doesn't work for numerous reasons not least of all because it goes against the core of the shows creator.
Add to that, the Amulet didn't 'destroy' evil, it put the balance back into the world that Willow herself changed...twice.
If God was truly behind the Amulet for the purposes of 'destroying' evil then he should have destroyed Willow as well.

[ILLYRIAN]

I had a good laugh at your reply BotD, I merely pointed out that if something was taken out it may be replaced with something that wasn't liked, how does that train of thought fall flat ?
You put the fanfic suggestion goes aginst the core of the shows creator, any chance of you explaining that ?
You then put, 'add to that', if you meant as in the fanfic then you obviously didn't read it or you wouldn't have written that.
If you meant the TV series, then the amulet destroyed the army of the evil that stopped the evil getting control of the world, the balance was always there it was just that the balance was being tipped one way more than the other way.
But to put that if God was in control then 'he' should have ended Willow as well, I seem to remember Willow wanting the good to win, apart from when the evil took over her but she came back in favour of the good.

[Bored of the Dead]

As I always find myself laughing at your posts.

You put the fanfic suggestion goes aginst the core of the shows creator, any chance of you explaining that ?

Well documented is Joss belief about God. To end up saying the day was saved by something 'God' did truly does against everything he stood for.
It is one thing to make a suggestion that even in his world there is a God but to place the final fights victory at the hand of God detracts from everything the storyteller tried to convey.

You then put, 'add to that', if you meant as in the fanfic then you obviously didn't read it or you wouldn't have written that.
I'm absolutely convinced I'm not the only one who hasn't read it.

If you meant the TV series, then the amulet destroyed the army of the evil that stopped the evil getting control of the world, the balance was always there it was just that the balance was being tipped one way more than the other way.

I read this and retarded oxymoron comes to mind.
You cannot have 'tipped' balance. If something is 'tipped' it is not balanced.

The amulet took away the imbalance created by Willow however, it created a new imbalance for the power of Good. This is wrong too.
If one side is more than the other there is no balance.

Willow was the cause of two serious imbalances.
One was the resurrection of the Slayer.
She gave The First the ability to dispose of one of humanities champions.
Second was awaking the 'potential' in all the potentials thus creating a new imbalance.

She was wrong in both and both have serious consequences that need/will be addressed.

Neither helps humanity as it needs both good and bad to survive as we grow from both. With one being more in power than the other stunts humanities growth.

Willow, twice in 2 years, caused a chain of events that have serious consequences on the balance of good and evil. She needs to be stopped.

[Angel's vision]

Willow, twice in 2 years, caused a chain of events that have serious consequences on the balance of good and evil. She needs to be stopped.

Buffy was the instigator in the plan to "Wake up" the potentials, she discussed it with the group before asking Willow to perform the spell so Buffy should take some of the blame, and for the record her plan was iresponsible and dangerous and I felt that it shouldn't have been included. I wanted her to win against the odds without magic.

[Bored of the Dead]

Buffy was the instigator in the plan to "Wake up" the potentials, she discussed it with the group before asking Willow to perform the spell so Buffy should take some of the blame, and for the record her plan was iresponsible and dangerous and I felt that it shouldn't have been included. I wanted her to win against the odds without magic.

Would the plan even have to to the attention of Buffy without Willow?

Yes Buffy had the idea but Willow was the one with the power, Willow was the one that made it happen and Willow is the one ultimately responsible for a second improper use of magics to really seriously create an imbalance of power.

[Angel's vision]

yeah true, but funny isn't it how Giles told her off for resurecting Buffy yet when it came to fighting evil it was ok for her to missuse her magic?

[Bored of the Dead]

yeah true, but funny isn't it how Giles told her off for resurecting Buffy yet when it came to fighting evil it was ok for her to missuse her magic?

No it's not funny.

Both situations were different.

Willows misuse in the first place was a selfish act to bring Buffy back to life.

The second act was to save the world.

On a personal level the second one is for the right reasons HOWEVER, i'm not talking about those reasons, i'm talking about the bigger picture that deals woth humanity and its need for good and evil and its need for balance.

[TrueVengeance]

I didn't like that the potentials took over the role of the scoobies. I mean, it wasn't the slayer and her friends anymore. It was the slayer and her...slayers. Like where the hell were Giles, Xander, and Anya the last half of the season? Not to mention the extreme overdose of Spike :complain:

So yeah, potentials got to go :p Plus most of the characters were pretty lame (Vi for instance). I did love the Chinese One and Molly :D

[Blondie Bear]

I love Spike, but I think the writers didn't know what to do with him for most of this season. I'd have come up with something better than that whole "I'm insane; wait, no I'm not; wait, yes I am but I'm possessed by the First; I want to kill everyone; I want someone to kill me" blah blah blah.

[TrueVengeance]

I love Spike, but I think the writers didn't know what to do with him for most of this season. I'd have come up with something better than that whole "I'm insane; wait, no I'm not; wait, yes I am but I'm possessed by the First; I want to kill everyone; I want someone to kill me" blah blah blah.

haha I meant so send you some Karma for me agreeing...started to type "couldn't agree more" when the cat jumped on the keyboard and cut me off :p But yeah, I couldn't agree more! Spike had been one of my favorite characters until that point.

[Darling]

The Kennedy-Willow thing...
It wasn´t natural at all .. arg.

[sosa lola]

I'll take out the Giles = The First sub-plot because it didn't make sense and it was pointless. However, I want a sub-plot with either Giles or Xander in its place, those poor men were so neglected in this season.

[Cangel]

I wouldn't have missed the whole Wood trying to kill Spike deal, with the help of Giles. That just compeltely destroyed the Buffy/Giles relationship.

[Five]

Kennedy/Willow must be destroyed, deleted, elimated, suppressed, forgotten, buried, dead, and spit upon. Who? Me? Overreacting? Noooo. The fact is it looked forced. It was like "oooh-kay, Xander can't really be dating someone for real and long after all this Anya drama since she's still there and all that; Buffy's going all platonic on Spike; Giles, well... Giles' love life isn't that exciting; we really have to find someone for Willow! How about a little brat who's as mature as an overspoiled 4-year-old and who's both vulgar, selfish and stupid ? Oh let's totally do that!" (Okay I might be making up that last part.) I mean six months. Six months after the love of her life's death, she goes all smootch with the first lesbian throwing herself at her. a: not Willowy at all. b: not anyone-y at all (you don't do that when you're still grieving, it's exactly the same with Izzie and George on Grey's Anatomy! Grieve Izzie, grieve, don't go all "i'm in love with my boy friend" crap.). c: Why Kennedy? I mean, why?! Seriously (I already referred to Grey's A., why not continue...), it did look as if they felt obligated to have some romance and didn't know where to put it. Well, duuuh ! Bring back Xander and Anya together. Tsss.

I think (and I also think I'm gonna be the only one saying that, but, fair enough...) Andrew took much room. As in "too much room". He didn't really bring anything to the story, the character always kinda bored me, though I liked his interaction with Anya.

All this would have freed some room and make the season less dense. It really felt like a movie sometimes.

[fly on the wall]

Kennedy/Willow must be destroyed, deleted, elimated, suppressed, forgotten, buried, dead, and spit upon. Who? Me? Overreacting? Noooo. The fact is it looked forced. It was like "oooh-kay, Xander can't really be dating someone for real and long after all this Anya drama since she's still there and all that; Buffy's going all platonic on Spike; Giles, well... Giles' love life isn't that exciting; we really have to find someone for Willow! How about a little brat who's as mature as an overspoiled 4-year-old and who's both vulgar, selfish and stupid ? Oh let's totally do that!" (Okay I might be making up that last part.) I mean six months. Six months after the love of her life's death, she goes all smootch with the first lesbian throwing herself at her. a: not Willowy at all. b: not anyone-y at all (you don't do that when you're still grieving, it's exactly the same with Izzie and George on Grey's Anatomy! Grieve Izzie, grieve, don't go all "i'm in love with my boy friend" crap.). c: Why Kennedy? I mean, why?! Seriously (I already referred to Grey's A., why not continue...), it did look as if they felt obligated to have some romance and didn't know where to put it. Well, duuuh ! Bring back Xander and Anya together. Tsss.
I completely agree.
Someone (Joss?) in some interview/commentary said that they chose a character like Kennedy because she was so different from Tara. So that Tara's memory wouldn't be tarnished. But my God, I hated that whole arc, and I wish it could be completely erased too.

The season seemed way too cluttered, too overly complicated, but I'm not quite sure what I'd get rid of to fix that, beyond the Willow/Kennedy thing.

[Airam]

The Potentials, as anoying as most of them were, were completely neccesary to the arc of S7, no way could they have been left out without S7 being COMPLETELY different, they are what drove it, the very first scene of the season is of a Potential for petes sake. I agree that the only thing that really could have and SHOULD HAVE been left out that wouldn't have altered a bit of anything (besides a big wtf?! factor @ the ridiculousness that was that relationship) was the Kennedy/ Willow relationship. HATED IT, wasn't needed AT ALL. A MUCH better choice would have been to bring Oz back... he could have helped and his dynamic with Willow would have been so much more interesting to watch and made a whole of a hell lot more sense.

[Five]

the Kennedy/ Willow relationship. HATED IT, wasn't needed AT ALL. A MUCH better choice would have been to bring Oz back... he could have helped and his dynamic with Willow would have been so much more interesting to watch and made a whole of a hell lot more sense.

I totally agree, I almost said it on my last post. But it wasn't possible : I really believe the creators were afraid of having Willow getting back with a boy or even having a love-like relationship with a boy. They really seemed obligated to make her totally gay after her falling for Tara. Which is totally stupid. It felt like they were afraid all the gay fans would take it the wrong way, so they kept having Willow saying she's totally gay every episode... It's stupid. I don't agree. You can fall in love, in real love, with a woman and not become totally gay and closed to the possibility of a man in your love life.

[vocah]

I don't think its a matter of what they should have left out, i think its more what they should have put in, or at least elaborated on.

beljoxas eye for instance. they introduced it, and just threw it away. also, the whole giles/first thing was kind of a wash. ultimately it was just plot bull. i get why they did it, and i kind of like it, but they could have a reason for giles being so withdrawn. like he had a reason. some character moment that explained why he was so distant and added to the plot. the way they resolved it was funny, but nothing more. the best things in buffy were funny and meant something at the same time.

Edit:

and also, with all the willow stuff, i have no problem with her hooking up so quickly after tara, but i wish she had a moment where it totally screwed with her head. Any normal person would want that touch again, but willow jumped in almost like tara was 6 years ago. almost nothing fazed her cept losing her mojo control. wah wah wah. it was too soon, thats all.

And this comes from someone who thought Benson was the worst actor the show ever had.

Edit:

oooooh. just had an Oz thought after reading some posts.

Obviously Willow's relationship with Oz wasn't just confused feelings. she loved the guy, genitals and all. She's BI. its frickin clear. Even though i loved Oz much more than Tara, it was clear that Tara meant more to Willow than Oz. So in addition to the above thoughts, it would have been genius for Oz to come back, him and Willow to start up again, but for it ultimately to be not the same as Tara. Willow would love it, but she's still not past tara, and DUH since she was shot 6 months prior.

And then we have Oz having to live with that unrequitedness, fighting in the hellmouth on the last day of town. would have been great.

[Darling]

I don´t think, like most of you, that there were too many arcs...
It was a "simple" Season, with the usual random episodes, like Him.

[Blaze]

Overall, I liked that season, sure, the potential where kind of taking a bit to much place on the show but it was kind of essential and the idea overall was good

I liked Kennedy but I do think that she was brought a bit early. they should have waited and introduced her for season 8.

-Blaze-