Discussion of 8.11 "A Beautiful Sunset" Released 02/06/08 (Dark Horse) [Archive]

nerd4hire

02-07-2008, 02:57 AM

Technically the rules are the same as they were for episodes when the show was airing. If the issue is out, and it says "Discussion of..." in the title with a date, people should know what to expect if they click on the link.

With the comics there was confusion at first, because people get the issues at different times depending on where, or how they get it. They needed an adjustment perioed. I was giving people a little time to have a little chat, then I'd say OK here comes the spoilers. Time to run if you haven't read the issue yet, but that's not very efficient is it?

We'll start posting a separate non-spoiler speculation thread from here on out, and for this discussion thread feel free to discuss the issue openly.

Anyway...here come the spoilers.

So Sosa Lola have you read it? Do we get to find out who or what Twilight is?

sosa lola

02-07-2008, 03:05 AM

I'll leave that question unanswered, it's better you find out while reading the issue :)

SPOILERS:

Buffy encourages Xander to ask Renee out.

Xander throws a party for Dawn to make her feel better, and she gets to drink lots for beer, seeing that in Scotland she's in the legal age to drink.

Buffy lets Satsu down gently, telling her that it's a good thing they won't be dating, because Buffy's boyfriends tend to leave (sent to hell, burn, get vamps to feed off of them), and generally Buffy opens up to Satsu in a way we never saw her do before.

Twilight interrupts their conversation and kicks both their asses, making Buffy doubt her decision to give all potentials their slayer powers.

nerd4hire

02-07-2008, 03:14 AM

I'm not sure I was clear. There are no spoilers in this thread unless they're for an upcoming issue, and yes tag those. Anything that's in 8.11 can be discussed. I need to know if Twilight is revealed in this issue, otherwise this contest I'm running elsewhere on this site is void.

Never mind. Don't worry about it. I'll close that contest thread, and re-open it when I get the answer.

Allycat

02-07-2008, 06:51 AM

No, it does not reveal the identity of Twilight. We do learn that he/she has itches when he/she removes the the lower part of his/her mask (in a spider-man like fashion) and he/she has a pretty firm jawline. Conclusion... likely a male human.

I didn't think this issue was too spectacular. I liked the Buffy/Satsu dialogue I just wished there was a little bit more of it. Twilight's introduction was not quite as cool as it looks on the cover. There's a couple of punches being thrown, but it doesn't look like either Buffy or Twilight is really trying too hard. As Twilight says later on it wasn't about the physical battle, but rather about the opportunity to discuss morality with her. Still he no longer seems as scary as he did before I read this issue. Part of that maybe due to the itchy neck. Don't get me wrong, I like a villain who has is very human at the core, but this was just a bit too mundane for my taste.

PS: The first letter by Joss, the explanation that The Chain was dedicated to Janie Kleinman, was very touching imho.

goldenboy

02-07-2008, 01:35 PM

Man, what a tease with the almost reveal of Twilight. I was almost thinking it was gonna be Giles under that mask. The dude seems to understand Buffy's history, psychology pretty darn well, whoever it is.

It's good to have Jeanty back for this issue. I think they're using a duller paperstock now; looks less glare-y to me. I'm liking Jeanty's panels more and more. The backgrounds are cleaner, simpler, easier to follow.

Overall, a good if not great issue. Buffy's in total somber/reflective mode.

LittleMissLikesToFight

02-07-2008, 07:18 PM

My brother thinks it may be giles. I think it may be Xander... but yeah the almost reveal was like ARGH!

Tranquillity

02-08-2008, 03:32 PM

I was thinking it could be Xander as i was reading, he did send Buffy to the graveyard and all, but then i had a close look at the drawings and Xander is always drawn with a round chin while Twilight's is squared. But you do get the impression that it is someone who knows Buffy, don't you - well i did. I really liked this issue, i re-read it three times straight and looked at everything that was said trying to figure out who Twilight is...but i've got nothing. Will we get the big reveal next issue? When we do finally get it, it will probably be a completely new character and we'll all be like - who?

Clem Rocks

02-09-2008, 08:55 AM

Just read it and i gotta say, pretty good issue. Talking, fighting and jokey jokes, just how Buffy should be.

Some really good stuff in this issue: The artists can draw vampire gamefaces pretty well, Dawn has noticable boobs *Drools* and Buffy can infact hold the Scythe properly! =D i've been waiting to see her hold it properly all season. Nice to see she can throw it, stake first, too =]

Love some of the lines in it like "The sweetest thing will be your bloo-" "ACK! Please. We're talking" XD

And am i the only one that thinks Buffy's actualy gonna turn gay for Satsu and then eventualy if (Well, when really) Satsu and Kennedy get killed, she'll get with Willow?
Also nice to see an Angel, Spike, and if we really must, Riley reference too ^^

Now, onto the big question: Twilight. I'm gonna say it's Caleb, because

1. Caleb is in this issue as a flashback right at the start
2. Twilight knows how Buffy killed Caleb. I find it hard to believe that Twilight has been stalking her that long, and it's abit of a coincidence that there's two Caleb references in one issue, and the only people that saw how Buffy killed Caleb are Spike and Angel....which would explain the jacket ;)
3. Twilight seems freakishly strong, holding up part of a church and breaking Satsu's sword, so i'd say there's some First power in him

But, incase it's not Caleb (Or Angel ((Or maybe Angelus =O)) who i am starting to suspect since writing this) i'm gonna read past issues and look for people scratching their neck, i'll let you know if i find anything lol

P.S. I don't mean to be dirty or anything, but does it look to anyone else that in the panel on the last page where all the Slayerettes are play fighting, that the one in the white shirt with stars on it is touching up the one next to her? O_O;;;

Edit:

Edit: No-one in previous issues has itchy neck D=

Allycat

02-09-2008, 09:51 AM

Now, onto the big question: Twilight. I'm gonna say it's Caleb, because

1. Caleb is in this issue as a flashback right at the start
2. Twilight knows how Buffy killed Caleb. I find it hard to believe that Twilight has been stalking her that long, and it's abit of a coincidence that there's two Caleb references in one issue, and the only people that saw how Buffy killed Caleb are Spike and Angel....which would explain the jacket ;)
3. Twilight seems freakishly strong, holding up part of a church and breaking Satsu's sword, so i'd say there's some First power in him

1. So, are Rona, Vi, Satsu, and the little baseball player.
2. Huh??? Where did you gather this from? It's not in my issue that Twilight knows this. But as you pointed out, it's not likely that Twilight's been spying on Buffy for that long. After all, his beef with her started after Chosen.
3. Could be another agent of the First. Also, we've seen other characters with similar power-levels; Jasmine, Illyria, Glory, Willow.

Clem Rocks

02-09-2008, 10:16 AM

1. So, are Rona, Vi, Satsu, and the little baseball player.
2. Huh??? Where did you gather this from? It's not in my issue that Twilight knows this. But as you pointed out, it's not likely that Twilight's been spying on Buffy for that long. After all, his beef with her started after Chosen.
3. Could be another agent of the First. Also, we've seen other characters with similar power-levels; Jasmine, Illyria, Glory, Willow.

2. On the page right before they go flying. Buffy tries to slice him in half the same way she did to Caleb. Twilight: "I know that move, Slayer."

Allycat

02-09-2008, 11:27 AM

Oh wow, I hadn't recognised that move. I thought it just meant that Twilight had also been studying her fighting style. Of course, it could be she used this move on others than Caleb in the one-and-a-half year after Chosen. But it might also be a huge hint.

I'm still not convinced Twilight is Caleb though.

PS: Is it coincidence that we haven't seen Spike in his leather jacket yet in After the Fall?!?

Clem Rocks

02-09-2008, 11:40 AM

Spike Angelus

02-11-2008, 02:50 PM

I could tell Joss wrote this without looking at the writing credits. His writing alweays make the comic feel like an episode of the TV show. And why shouldn't it, it's his baby.
"A Beautiful Sunset" had the same feeling, IMO, and the season 5 episode where Buffy first goes up against Glory (sorry, I can't remember the title). I have a theroy on who Twillight is. I can't wait to see it I'm right.

My favorite part is when it looks like Twilight's goign to unmask him self, only to say "Sorry, itchy neck." Classic Joss line right there!

Clem Rocks

02-11-2008, 03:48 PM

Just read it again and noticed more stuff

Questions:

How did Dawn get inside the castle? o_O
How did Amy know that someone in the room back in The Long Way Home (Satsu) was in love with Buffy? Could Satsu be the inside man(girl)?
How does Twilight see through his mask? It has no eye holes...

And speaking of Twilight, i realised two things

1. It can't be someone Buffy already knows, because she would recognise his voice
2. What he meant by "My first gift is my last" is that he would not kill Buffy there and then, that was his first gift to her, but it would also be the last gift he gave her

nerd4hire

02-11-2008, 04:00 PM

How did Amy know that someone in the room back in The Long Way Home (Satsu) was in love with Buffy?

What makes you think Amy knew that? ???

Clem Rocks

02-11-2008, 04:31 PM

What makes you think Amy knew that? ???

Oops, my bad, i remembered it wrong, it's Willow that knew someone in the room was in love with Buffy. So how'd she know about Satsu?

nerd4hire

02-11-2008, 05:03 PM

You're asking for fanwanks. Very well then...

So how'd she (Willow) know about Satsu?

She used her unique, adapted, Witchy senses to sense if true love was in the room. Kind of like a glamor. Whether, or not Amy could do the same thing isn't relevant. She wouldn't be looking for true love, and Satsu wasn't in the room even if she was.

How did Dawn get inside the castle? o_O

There are Dawn-sized entrances for special rooms. She's been inside the castle before.

How does Twilight see through his mask? It has no eye holes...

The mask is made of a special material which you can see out of, but can't see in, much like a 2 way mirror.

It can't be someone Buffy already knows, because she would recognise his voice

The amazing mask may also muffle. The unusual fonts they use when Twilight speaks suggest there's something special about his voice.

Blondie Bear

02-11-2008, 05:11 PM

Spider-Man's mask technically has no holes, either, and he sees just fine.

That said, I just finished reading this issue and I liked it. But I'm having trouble with everyone's guessing about the Big Bad, mostly because it appears Twilight can fly. It's unlikely that anyone--except Willow--we've seen before could suddenly gain the ability to fly. But then, I missed the whole Satsu thing in #3, so what do I know?

nerd4hire

02-11-2008, 05:52 PM

Remember this from Bloodties...

ANYA: No. She couldn't, a witch at her level. She can only go airborne. (they stop walking and look at her) It's a thing. More flashy, impresses the locals, but it does take longer.

XANDER: Longer than what?

ANYA: Teleporting.

Witches of a certain level can fly. Warren's flown with a jetpack of course, but that wouldn't really apply here, I don't think. Dracula flies in a sense. What was that flitty bat lady thing called in the Angelverse again, who knows where everything is hidden. Flight is not unknown in the Buffyverse.

Blondie Bear

02-11-2008, 06:02 PM

I know it's not unknown, it just seems really out of character and a little . . . well, the word's not coming but it's something like "cheating" . . . for someone who hasn't been known for superpowers before to fly . . . like Xander.

LittleMissLikesToFight

02-11-2008, 06:41 PM

Blondie Bear

02-11-2008, 06:49 PM

But the face looked far too manly to be a woman, as did the body (though magic could change this for a woman, i guess).

And my whole thing was... who WOULD say a line like "itchy neck"? It seemed a Xander thing to say, but now that ive read so much of what you all have to say, im not so sure its him anymore.

I think definitely not female due to the chauvanistic attitude. And I halfway think that the itchy neck thing was an excuse to TEASE US with an ALMOST-removal of the mask. That'd be just like Joss.

Rowan Hawthorn

02-11-2008, 07:06 PM

You're asking for fanwanks. Very well then...

So how'd she (Willow) know about Satsu?

She used her unique, adapted, Witchy senses to sense if true love was in the room.

And the fact that she can hear people thinking if she wants (and maybe even if she doesn't) would be a big help, too, betcha-by-golly!

How does Twilight see through his mask? It has no eye holes...

The mask is made of a special material which you can see out of, but can't see in, much like a 2 way mirror.

Or like those fabric murals you can put on a car window. From outside, they're opaque, but from inside, you can see through just fine.

alexa

02-11-2008, 07:37 PM

Hmm k, just got my issue, might post now in case I burst with excitement while reading all your posts. Maybe excitement isn't the right word.. I enjoyed it, but didn't capture me the way Anywhere but Here did. Probably because shorter, less to decipher.
Love the Xander/Buffyness of course.. they are so clearly right for eachother. Renee spanee. But I'm really starting to like Satsu, I think she's great. I remember reading the first issue and it really seemed like Joss wanted us to notice her with all the little trinkets etc she had attached. What are we suppost to have noticed that Satsu did? Thought Jeanty mentioned that.. maybe that's another issue.

Other then that I mostly just have questions. What the heck is Twilight made of.. how does he know so much about Buffy... and everything. 'I'll not kill you now. My first gift is my last.' so he's saying his first gift -being not killing her?.. will be something he'll do again later...? He seems to think he's on the right side of things. Also as he's taking his mask off.. he kinda looses he's edge. Wonder if that suit he's wearing is what makes him indestructable.. and maybe it only works at twilight?

Senior Watcher

02-11-2008, 07:50 PM

another great issue of buffy. i really liked the part where twilight almost revealed himself, but then didnt.

i also love the slayers partying with dawn.

cant wait to see what happens in the next arc!

Spike Angelus

02-11-2008, 08:33 PM

1. It can't be someone Buffy already knows, because she would recognise his voice

Maybe he/she is using a voice changer? Notice how the print for their speech is different from the others?

Otaku Mike

02-11-2008, 09:54 PM

I'm probably crazy, but I have a feeling Twilight is Riley. An experienced, slightly bitter, jaded Riley. A Riley who fought against many crazy things, probably lost his wife during one of those battles. A Riley that got "upgraded" again by an offshot of the Initiative. He's fighting for Humanity, and he thinks Buffy went too far.

Mike

Otaku Mike

02-12-2008, 02:58 AM

And I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but it's now clear whose boots we saw dangling above the church back in issue 1.

Mike

Allycat

02-12-2008, 06:05 AM

I think most people already drew that conclusion about floating boots. And the idea of Twilight being Riley has been suggested before. We've got a special speculation thread for people to try and figure out who the big bad is:

Guess the Big Bad For House Points (Spoilers for 8.11) - Buffy-Boards (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=36549)

Lyri

02-12-2008, 09:53 AM

does anybody remember anyone from BTVS getting decapitated? the itchy necy thing could be a reference to a scar or something.

Clem Rocks

02-12-2008, 10:39 AM

does anybody remember anyone from BTVS getting decapitated? the itchy necy thing could be a reference to a scar or something.

Adam decapitated some random vamp, that's the only one i can remember and i seriously doubt it's him

alexa

02-12-2008, 06:11 PM

I'm assuming the itchy neck is just Joss being Joss... probably teasing us because him scratching slowed him down taking off his mask. But Twilight has to be someone we know if Joss is playing with the reveal yes?

Primal Slayer

02-12-2008, 09:28 PM

I have heard a lot of people speculating Riley or Xander, but I dont think its neither. I think twilight is going to be someone who we least expect.

Evilyn

02-13-2008, 12:04 AM

I'm now thinking Angelus. I mean, if Angel isn't a Vamp anymore, what happens to Angelus. He's always there, somewhere. Soooo, it could be. Yet another one of my FAR FETCHED theories. I don't really have anything to back it up except a strange feeling. Plus, I mean, this whole issue was sorta focused the people that have been in love with Buffy and what has happened to them. Oooooh, now that I think about that, it could be Xander too. Hmmm, we'll see eventually.

Now, I just officially got a hold of this today and read it. This issue is quite possibly my favorite so far. I'll probably say that a few more times before this is all over with. I really liked the entire fight with Twilight. From the dialogue to the action. I also loved the conversation with Satsu and Buffy. Even if it does seem like Buffy is back into self pity mode. It almost feels like she and Angel totally switched places.

CharmedSlayer85

02-13-2008, 11:19 PM

I personally think it's almost kind of sad and a little redundant that Buffy still has that feeling of being alone and isolated. I thought the whole purpose of the ending of Season Seven was that she no longer has that isolation anymore, because she's no longer the Chosen One, now she's the Chosen Many and that's what that smile at the end signified, at least that's what I thought but apparently that's not so. I understand the saying that as a leader it's lonely at the top, but still.

Allycat

02-14-2008, 03:48 AM

It does feel a bit repetitive, but I guess I do understand why she, yet again, feels alone. I wish they would get that bit over with though and they'd focus on other issues.

Cordelia Chase*

02-16-2008, 12:12 PM

Im sorry guys but Buffy is gay!!!!! lol
I love the whole Buffy and Satsu conversation. Did I mention how much I love Satsu now???!! If Ethan had that tatoo on him...is it possible that Giles did as well. I dont remember how his tatoo looked on the show.

And Twilight. Definitely a dude! ALthought I dont think it would be Angelus. He wouldnt hide hisself for one and Angelus doesnt really like working with people. More so of using them. But then again....he doesnt like SLayers. He did used Lady Genivie and her warlock friend. And he is working with and army/initiative type group that could just be pawns but who knows.