Guess the Big Bad For House Points (Spoilers for 8.11)

[nerd4hire]

Who, or what is Twilight?

It is was decided towards the end of the last thread on this subject the question would be guessed at for house points going towards the annual house cup.

How exactly will it work? The house cup director will work out those details, but for now vote in the poll, and make inspired, Sherlock Holmsian comments.

Multiple votes are allowed but I wouldn't recommend voting on every possibility. Consider the possibility of positive, and negative points, or something like that. No that wouldn't mean you'd get negative points for your house, and as I said I don't even know the details on how it will be scored. I'm just saying it's probably best not to think there's a clever way to score easy points without thinking.

The subject of "Who's the Big Bad" has been discussed in the closed thread linked to below. There are clues.

Who Do You Think the Big Bad is? (Major spoiler for current issue # 9) - Buffy-Boards (http://buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=35196)

Not everyone knew about the contest part, so to be fair, I closed that one, and opened this one explaining the details. Now everybody can start on an equal footing.

I may close this one, and open another one next month, then keep a running tally on who votes for what. I'll talk to the House Cup guy about that.

The title says spoilers for 8.11, so that issue, and anything before it can be discussed openly here. Use spoiler tags for talk of what's known to be coming in upcoming issues.

[Allycat]

My first gift is my last.

What the hell did he mean by that? And am I the only one who thinks this is the biggest hint yet?

[GATEGOD]

I'm guessing Caleb, issue 11 leaned so much towards it. It looks like a guy, it looked like buffy tried to split twilight in half but he stopped her saying he knew that move, plus everything else he said. Atleast that's what I think, I could be way off.

[Allycat]

I have one big problem with Caleb or any agent of the First as Twilight: balance!

Twilight is all about balance of power. He considers the Slayers evil, because they've tipped the balance in their favour. Well, didn't the First want to do the exact same thing? If the First had succeeded in his plans, I guess Twilight might've targeted it.

Edit:

Wait, hold the presses. Here's a new theory. At least, I haven't seen it before.

Twilight is not a single person!!! We know he represents an organisation, but that's not what I mean. What I mean is our nefarious masked stalker is not actually played by the same person. If you look at the font used in "A Beautiful Sunset", you'll notice that it's reminiscent of, but clearly different from, the font used in NFFY4. (And the letters are done by the same people.) Another thing that bugged me is that no Buffy villain has ever used a mask before. Now it could be that this is Joss' way of paying homage to the great many masked comic-book characters... or it could be that this Big Bad has something to hide. And as for Twilight's powers... maybe he (or they) got his (or their) costume from Stark Industries?

[Black Eye Guy]

I got a very Caleb vibe from this issue as well, he didn't seem to women friendly either along with the almost being cut in half. And when he kinda took off the mask it was clear he was a he and that he was human (physically anyway)

But I think that "I know that move" line was more of a I've been watching you kinda thing. And I don't think Joss would give us another bad guy we've seen before, having already done that.

So for my comedy guess I'll say Johnathon - He'll team up with Warren and drag Andrew back into the group and they'll Annoy Buffy till the end of time.

For my out there guess I'd say Angelus - Angel is in the Hell demension apparently not a vampire , so what if that half of him is still here, he saw that slice'em dice'em move of Buffys, could also go along with the celtic vibe he's got going.

And for my actual guess I'd say someone new.

[Clem Rocks]

I got a very Caleb vibe from this issue as well, he didn't seem to women friendly either along with the almost being cut in half. And when he kinda took off the mask it was clear he was a he and that he was human (physically anyway)

But I think that "I know that move" line was more of a I've been watching you kinda thing. And I don't think Joss would give us another bad guy we've seen before, having already done that.

So for my comedy guess I'll say Johnathon - He'll team up with Warren and drag Andrew back into the group and they'll Annoy Buffy till the end of time.

For my out there guess I'd say Angelus - Angel is in the Hell demension apparently not a vampire , so what if that half of him is still here, he saw that slice'em dice'em move of Buffys, could also go along with the celtic vibe he's got going.

And for my actual guess I'd say someone new.

w00t, someone else thinks it's Angelus =D

More Angelus theory's: The jacket, and who else would stop just to itch their neck? XD
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c180/BlackEyeGuy_/AD-Mer.jpg

[Evilyn]

I still say it's a werewolf. More specifically, Oz. I mean, Oz was all about balance and Zen and stuff to control the wolf inside of him. Plus he hated what he had become, and if there was no more magic and stuff, then he'd no longer be a werewolf, right. Plus, they never went into what actually triggered the change from human to werewolf. What if it has something to do with the moonlight and touching the skin. What if any amount of moonlight touching the skin is what changes him, so therefore he completely covers his body as not to change. I mean, in old werewolf movies, we would see them turn into a wolf the moment the full moon came out from behind the clouds.

That's my far fetched theory.

[GATEGOD]

But if it's oz then they have ruinied oz. I don't want to see Oz if he completly turns from the I'd I loved onscreen to an evil character. So I'm praying it isn't Oz

[Elithustra]

I know nothing about Season Eight, but my love of polls drew me here, like a moth to the flame. You can still give me some house points! :lmao:

[Allycat]

I've got some more speculation. This time not on Twilight himself, but on his "inside man", since we don't have a real speculation thread, I figured I might as well post it here, since it is related to Twilight and his operation. Theory: Renee is Mottler's daughter and Twilight's "Inside man". She intentionally didn't notice the army of zombies in #2 until the very last moment. And in #12, she lures Xander back inside when the wolves come, so that the "mist" can attack. Course when they all find out Xander is heartbroken and Buffy comforts him and the two hook-up. I think they've been setting up for Bander all season so far.

[JCC]

My first thought was Willow, but I'm also thinking that it's maybe Ethan.

[FaithyFivebyFive]

Also, when he appeared to Buffy in the dream world, he was wearing the long jacket, to make us think it was potentially Angel or Spike.

[JCC]

I'm going to say Willow for the moment. It's what everyone expects least, and with Buffy about to 'destroy magic', Willow obviously will be affected by the army of slayers. Plus, her confessed bitterness about choosing Buffy over Tara adds more motive. But, I also think that it may turn out to be Willow's personality split in two or something similar.

[Syu]

Twilight is Angel :D

[GorramSpaceTrash]

Angelus would be an amazing twist, (considering the impression is IDW solely own the rights to that character - maybe not as the case may prove).

But personally I'm suspecting someone whose totally human, and has had some sort of ability based in magic, the supernatural and such before. A resurrected Jonathan would be something, given Warren's status, and the fact Andrew is still alive. Jonathan might see his mission as completely justified and perhaps he wanted to convince Buffy when they initially met in 'A Beautiful Sunset'. Either that, or a grief-stricken Riley whose lost Sam, and wants to end magic to prevent further hurt to people. (Though this would be a bit unoriginal, given it's a complete reversal of Big Bad Willow in Season Six). Nevertheless, because I'm at an absolute loss, the latter is the one I picked.

[Allycat]

I like the idea of it being Jonathan. However, although I could see why Jonathan could believe in Twilight's ideals, I don't think he has it in him to view people like Gigi and Roden as expendable pawns. (Also, Twilight's taller than Buffy.) Riley on the other hand... it might be a bit obvious, but it could work.

[TabulaRasa]

I voted possibly Kenny. Maybe by making dawn large, he was hoping it would be a good distraction for the slayer. So he could work his evil doings? Maybe by having Buffy and the gang focus on Dawn a little more, he can get some bad stuff under way, maybe without them noticing as much.

[Lyri]

i haven't read 'A Beautiful Sunset' yet, so i'm not voting until i read it. and i'm trying to avoid all the spoilers until i do! hopefully, it'll be here tomorrow!

[JCC]

i haven't read 'A Beautiful Sunset' yet, so i'm not voting until i read it. and i'm trying to avoid all the spoilers until i do! hopefully, it'll be here tomorrow!
Faith dies.





_______________________













Just kidding. :p

[Spike Angelus]

I think its Riley. Just a feeling.

[Rowan Hawthorn]

I was going back and re-reading #11, and I just noticed something: Twilight is wearing gloves, but above those gloves, both arms appear to be bandaged. Check out page 17 (counting from the inside title page and including all ads) where he breaks Satsu's sword and then punches her, then page 18, where he grabs Buffy and takes off into the air.

[alexa]

Yeah he does look to be wearing bandages. Maybe Warren is healing?
Also just noticed when he lifts his mask to scratch.. it is to scratch.. then he begins to pull it down again after that. I'm just more confused with the more stuff I notice. It just Joss is making a big deal with the 'almost reveal' you think it would have to be someone we already know.

[CharmedSlayer85]

I don't think it's Willow cause I mean in some ways that'll be too easy and besides we already seen Willow go evil once I doubt Joss will repeat himself in that way of making Willow the "Twillight," besides we've seen from this issue that it's obviously male by looking at the chin. I don't know it could be Riley but I doubt it, cause where did he get this power boost from? Even Giles couldn't become that powerful when he got borrowed power from a powerful coven, but I'm guessing from the hint at a potential reveal that it more than likely is somebody we've seen before, so maybe Riley but who knows

[Allycat]

Giles isn't actually such a bad idea. We've seen him in a secret meeting with demons before. But I guess if he was Twilight, he wouldn't have helped in Chosen, would he?

[TabulaRasa]

Can I change my vote? I want to vote for the last one. Seems more realistic to me. Something more comic-y.
A human lacking any personal magic power (it comes from objects)

[Allycat]

Hey, that choice was added only recently... wasn't it? I want to vote that!

[nerd4hire]

Yeah I forgot that one was mentioned in the previous thread so I added it late. Not to worry. Providing the reveal doesn't happen next month, I'll add the entry to next month's poll. I have a feeling this mystery of who's the big bad is going to be around for a while.

Edit:

I'll tell you what in the interest of fair play, and upon request, in this particular case you can change a vote from one of the ones you made to that last added entry if you want. You may also choose to simply add it to your other votes. It's up to you. Remember the possibility previously mentioned of a counting system involving positives and negatives though.



This contest may be a little chaotic until we work out the kinks. I'm going to have to contact the House Cup organizer, and request formatted rules for the next leg.

Also in the interest of fairness I'm going to disqualify myself from voting as the kind of impromptu organizer.

[The Chosen]

Faith dies.





_______________________













Just kidding. :p


GOD DAMN YOU. I HATE YOU! DIE! DIE!

That is NOT funny! I was trying to eat a damn piece of cold pizza and was in the process of an IM when I read that. I nearly choked AND my fingers stopped working. That was the cruelest thing I have ever read and I will eternally hate you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*goes into a corner and cries*

I was worried enough about my Lehane-Girl when NFFY Part Four was going to be released. And I almost CRIED this time. CRIED...

I will have to forgive you, though. Just please PLEASE don't EVER play a joke like that...EVER. AGAIN.

[JCC]

Bahahahahahaha!

JCC WINS AGAIN!

[paulmsw]

My first thought was Giles because he doesn't seem evil and appears to have the best interest of the world in mind. Giles said on the show when they were talking about killing Dawn in Season 5 before they fought Glorry that he was charged with protecting the world by any means, basically. But then I thought if he was Twilight would he have needed Faith to do his dirty work for him by killing the other slayer? They have made it out though that she will be betrayed in the worst way.

I want to say maybe it has something to do with Dawn. Because the symbol looks like a sun rising, which could be interpreted as "dawn". Maybe somehow this is related to the key?

[Tranquillity]

everytime i read a theory i go YES, that makes sense and could fit, so now i'm thinking it could be any of them!! its all very confusing. I want it to be Reilly though - i'd just love him to be Buffy's enemy, i don't know why... I do love the Dawn/Twilight connection theory - that is very well thought out.

[Clem Rocks]

I know i've already mentioned how Buffy tried to kill Twilight the same way she killed Caleb and he knew about that move. Look at the panel where she does that, and the panel that has Caleb in it, don't the poses that Twilight and Caleb are in look almost the same?...

[alexa]

Could be he just knows how she's killed all of her previous foes. But seems like Joss might want us to be thinking about Caleb.

[Clem Rocks]

I'm still leaning to it being either Caleb or Angelus. And i have more reasoning for each

Caleb: Someone pointed out on another forum i was looking on, that it was part of a church that Twilight chose to throw at Buffy

Angelus: Seeing as how Angel is now human, what's happen to Angelus? If he's been separated from Angel, he would want to get rid of magick so that he couldn't get stuck back in that body, and all magick being gone would take care of his pesky little gypsy curse problem

[RogueHunter]

Ok, I think we're going to find out that Angel's 'vampire with a soul' was transferred to Gunn, making Gunn the Vamp with the soul".
Also, the Whedon POTB are very detail oriented and Caleb had a very distinct speech pattern. Twilight is very matter of fact and thinking strategically. Caleb would definitely be feeling emotional after having Buffy vasectomize him.
I don't think this guy will be a prominent blast from the past if indeed he is one. And quite honestly, I really hope he's new, because with Amy, Warren, Ethan, Faith, and Robin, the world is feeling a little too small for my tastes. There's got to be more big bads than just the ones that cruised through Sunnydale.

[Clem Rocks]

Just thinking, after talking about Twilight (Sunset) and Dawn (Sunrise) being connected, maybe something big will happen in Wolves at the Gate now that everyone's going to the Land of the Rising Sun?

[crimsonsai89]

Okay im new to this site so everyone be gentle (no matter how lame my guess is) but what if Twilight is Harth from Fray.

[Blondie Bear]

Which one is Harth again? The vampire brother? (I just read this a few weeks ago; you think I'd remember.)

[gilesfan1980]

I think they will be involving Fray soon, so perhaps if Buffy gains a way to travel to the future, then someone from there could travel back to the past. I guess it was only a matter of time before time travel became a weapon of choice for the writing staff.

Twilight appears to be someone that has an honest insight to not just the Slayers, but Buffy particularly. He also has a military backing. It doesn't necessarily appear to be Riley (Riley would show more emotion and more of a connection, you'd think), but it could be someone from his neck of the woods. In the first book of season 8, it cut from where we see Twilight straight into the word "army" on the very next scene. We've seen this used before with the Mayor saying early on "You have all my Faith"... those little hints are sometimes helpful to pick up on.

Now, all the deaths of that fight scene from season 4 in the army medical lab combined with the magic used to give Buffy the power to fight Adam--which also opened up the spirit of the first Slayer--could very well have provided whoever Twilight is with all three elements: 1. Insight into the Slayers 2. Insight into Buffy and her friends, and 3. the Military backup along with the demon backup. Oh, and who's to say that Twilight isn't being influenced by the First? Evil will still exist even if Demons are eliminated, but eliminating the Slayers would still be a victory for the First, even if it simply makes Buffy miserable for the rest of her life.

Now if any of my theory has any merit, the writers have the option of bringing back an old character, or bringing in someone completely new from all this.

If all of this is connected, I wouldn't be surprised if Wolfram and Hart were involved in such a situation.

[Superstar]

There are clues.
I think it has all but been given away openly.

Buffy has a prophetic dream sequence where Xander is a bot.
Buffy is placed under a spell where only someone devoted and in love with her can awaken her. The next panel shows Xander. If Xander is a bot, his kiss would be ineffective as he isn't a real person.
Willow is the only person aside from Warren who has knowledge of how a bot is created and maintained.
Willow and Twilight can both fly.
Special care is taken to mention Xander's missing year with Dracula.
Dracula has knowledge of gypsy tricks and magic.
Special care is taken to mention Willow's missing 6 months after Kennedy dies and is resurrected and her fears of losing her again.
Special care is taken to mention Willow's siding with Buffy and the cost to her (Tara) and how that will not happen again.
Special care is taken to mention that a witch was present when Dracula "lost" his secrets in a card game.
Special care is taken to have Willow quote that she would not betray Buffy anymore than she already has.
Twilight has intimate knowledge of Buffy and how to break her.
The Japanese vampires have knowledge of not only how the slayer brigade was created, but how to reverse the process.
Giles has now recruited Faith to handle rogue slayers, which in the end will pit Faith vs Buffy for a final showdown - pitting slayer vs slayer with no ultimate winner since the victor will also be eliminated.

Twilight is the real Xander who has been trained by Willow to be a Warlock.
Xander, Willow and Giles are working in concert together to remove the demons, slayers and magic altogether from the world - for the good of the world. Interestingly, these 3 are also the ones who are directly tied to Buffy with the spell cast to infuse her with the essence of the 1st slayer.

All 3 are betraying Buffy and working with the government, leaving Buffy literally against the world.
For Xander, betrayal of Buffy is no new thing as he has done so repeatedly throughout the previous 7 years - albeit mostly from jealousy of her boyfriends.

[Entiel]

all right many of the points made sense while others didn't...I'll start by denying some of the thoughts mentioned above..
1)It can't be Willow,she is a witch so she is into keeping magick not ending it..
2)Can't be Riley(how would this Idiot ever be that strong?xD)
I found the idea of Oz kinda ok until someone mentioned the height issue..
here's a thought that I had some days ago before I ever knew about this post...maybe it is Buffy's Dad..(don't go hard)
he is the one technically closer to her and his first gift(life) fits with that quote...or maybe Giles who is the parental figure but I don't think so as he truly loves her etc...that's all folks!