Discussion of "Angel: After the Fall #4" Release 02/20/08

[Allycat]

I figured it'd start this thread to let everyone know that this issue has been released a week earlier than planned. So, get to your comic book store right now, cause Brian says this one is gonna rock even harder then the first 3:

So much in this issue, including, but not limited to:
1. The identity of the mystery dude on the cover of issue 5.
2. Who those crazy looking ladies are on the painted version.
3. The return of an old friend.
4. Revelations up the wah-zoo.
5. An ending that will make you go "okay, issue 5, now, please".

[Angel's Avenger]

Gosh I hope this one was good. The last three I've read were very disappointing. I'm trying to get into these new comics, but it's not happening. It's the shocking art.

[Allycat]

Well, then I guess issues 6, 7, and 8 will be for you. They feature art by a number of different artists.

[Clem Rocks]

OMG! I just read it and wow!





*SPOILERS*










Did anyone else go "Lorne! It's f***ing Lorne! =D" when they saw that green hand or was it just me?

I mean wow, Lorne, Skip, Groo and Spike with the M?(What was that about? Did he ever hold it on Buffy?) all in one issue? Love it!
Now all we need is Harmony =]

And did anyone that reads Buffy season 8 notice that one of the guy's behind Gunn when he lands on that building (I think it was WR&H's, could be wrong though) is wearing a mask that looks like Twilight's?...

[goldenboy]

I doubt there's a Twilight connection. I think that was just that bald vamp. But It would be wild if there were.

Wasn't surprised by Lorne, cos of all the previews, but Groo, definitely. What's he doing? He didn't go back to Pylea after he walked out on Cordy? Or he just portaled his way to this hell dimension?

Trying to figure out the point of Gunn blowing up the W&H building at this stage in the game. Is he trying to "kill" Angel, or force some kind of confrontation? Or it's just some sort of catharsis...

I gotta re-read this whole series up to this point. I'm so distracted by the art, the dialogue style. It's like Lynch gets the feel for the show...about 50% of the time.

[Clem Rocks]

Trying to figure out the point of Gunn blowing up the W&H building at this stage in the game. Is he trying to "kill" Angel, or force some kind of confrontation? Or it's just some sort of catharsis...

Maybe he knew it would make Wes disappear and wanted Angel separated from him

[goldenboy]

Mmm. Yeah, that's why Wes "faded out"? That works.

[Allycat]

I guess it could've been Gunn's point to remove Wesley's ghost. He definitely didn't want to kill Angel as he waited till Angel was out. Question is however, how did Gunn know Angel was going to be away? Did he perhaps know that Lorne had sent for him? Are the two in cahoots?

Anyway, awesome issues. Once again better than last time. It's good to see Lorne again. I wouldn't have expected him to be so forgiving, seeing as how we last saw him he seemed so utterly broken. But as he mentioned he went through a rough patch there. Looks like he made it through.

Did anyone else notice that during one of the timeslips (the one with future Spike) he was holding the Scythe!!!

I'm curious as to whether Angel's human-condition has been fully explained now. I don't think it's the end of the story. I mean... how can he be human, but not have shanshu'd? That doesn't make much sense. I did like how he found out though.

I also wonder whether it was Joss or Brian who planned the details of the future timeslips for Angel and Spike.

[goldenboy]

Yeah, the Scythe was odd to see. Nice touch.

If the Senior Partners are responsible for humanizing Angel...it would be because he's still somehow a threat as a vamp, even in Hell I suppose. Or it's just like sadistic, ironic payback. But maybe it's something more interesting than all that.

[Clem Rocks]

I guess it could've been Gunn's point to remove Wesley's ghost. He definitely didn't want to kill Angel as he waited till Angel was out. Question is however, how did Gunn know Angel was going to be away? Did he perhaps know that Lorne had sent for him? Are the two in cahoots?

Anyway, awesome issues. Once again better than last time. It's good to see Lorne again. I wouldn't have expected him to be so forgiving, seeing as how we last saw him he seemed so utterly broken. But as he mentioned he went through a rough patch there. Looks like he made it through.

Did anyone else notice that during one of the timeslips (the one with future Spike) he was holding the Scythe!!!

I'm curious as to whether Angel's human-condition has been fully explained now. I don't think it's the end of the story. I mean... how can he be human, but not have shanshu'd? That doesn't make much sense. I did like how he found out though.

I also wonder whether it was Joss or Brian who planned the details of the future timeslips for Angel and Spike.

I noticed Spike holding the Scythe, infact i already posted about it in this thread :P didn't know it was future Spike though

And the way Angel spoke about it in this issue, it sounds like the Senior Partners made him human because they knew he could easily get out of hell if he was a vampire, but it would be pretty hard if he had no powers

[goldenboy]

Which cover(s) did people get? I got the painted one. Still waiting for that "great" cover that you wanna turn into a poster.

[Allycat]

I got the Urru-variant, which doesn't look half as bad as I thought it would. Still, it's not the best cover either. (I printed out the variant for issues 1 and hung it on my wall ;).)

I noticed Spike holding the Scythe, infact i already posted about it in this thread :P didn't know it was future Spike though

There's flying cars in the background.

Were those two ladies Transuding Furies? If so, where's the third? Or were these maybe the fourth and fifth?

[Clem Rocks]

There's flying cars in the background.

*Check* There is aswell o_O didn't notice that, reckon it means Spike will survive long enough to be in Fray or something?

[goldenboy]

Weren't all demons, vamps wiped off the Earth some time between Buffy's era and Fray's? Trying to remember the Slayer lore in Fray...

Not that Joss couldn't retcon, tweak that. Or maybe the lore was wrong originally. That would be wild to have Spike and Fray together.

[Allycat]

What happened exactly was:

Urkonn: 'It was some hundreds of years ago in the twenty-first century. What we know is this -- There was a battle. A Slayer, possibly with some mystical allies faced an apocalyptic army of demons and when it was done ... There were all gone. All demons, all magicks, banished from this earthly dimension.'
Mel: 'And the Slayer? Did she ..'
Urkonn: 'I do not know if she lived. But the demons being gone, she was the last to be called. The line continued -- there were girls with the power, but they were never called, never trained. Which may be why you have no memories of your heritage. The council of watcher's fell to ruin, held together only by fanatics and fools. Those that believed the demons would return.

Or at least, according to Urkonn. For anyone who wants to read up on the topic of Fray and its connection to the current comicbooks: The Slayers End - Buffy-Boards (http://buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=35774)

[thegifting]

If it were, infact, the same timeframe as Fray, it's possible, without retcon, for that to occur if Illyria phased through time and pulled Spike with her, like Angel in "Timebomb".

[Avatar]

I loove this series even more!!!, Gunn wants take down all the Angel resources, and thats why he blows up the W&H building, cause is the mm nexus of Wesley with the Hell probably??
Well about the two ladyes, I though they are the muses, cause they repeat ANGEL name repetdly!!
Hope Groo deals with Cordys death in next issue, he love her!! I hope they mention her!

[Angel's Avenger]

Lorne makes an appearance? Cool!

[Clem Rocks]

Lorne makes an appearance? Cool!

an appearance where here's all dressed up cuz he's a lord :P

[Tranquillity]

Great issue - again! so many interesting little things in there to think about. I'm thinking that the "Calvary" Wesly mentions is Buffy and some Slayers - in the letters col they did say the reason that Buffy is not assisting will be addressed in upcoming issues. I'm also getting increasingly suspisious of this Spider character - she was lusting after that mace thingy big time (and i really wish she's put some clothes on) Future Spike (mmm leather clad future spike:)) with the scythe was pretty cool - though my son was debating if it was the slayer scythe or not - any offical word on that as yet? Lorne was interesting - i agree that it was a bit strange that he would want to see Angel and, come to think of it, that he is a Lord - i suppose he's offereing an alternative to terror and mayhem. Groo was a surprise i'm not sure i like, though he might come in handy... I really felt for Gunn - on one hand blowing up the place that bought about his 'change' and on the other taking just one thing - a picture of the fang gang family when they were happy and united - it's kinda heartbreaking. And Wesley? are we going to get him back?

[Angel's Avenger]

an appearance where here's all dressed up cuz he's a lord :P

Hmm...sounds interesting. A Lord of what?

[eunsoma]

hey i haven't read it yet do we find out whos the mistery girl on the cover??

[alexa]

The mystery girl is from issues 6+ I think.

Wow I enjoyed reading this issue. Lots of stuff going on makes it interesting, plus more dialog.
So Angel is human.. I loved his thoughts 'quick beheading, back to the fight. Heart's racing. Where was Gunn? He'll be fine. No he was dying. People screaming. HEART RACING?' :p And the flashback explained a lot.. he couldn't get to save Gunn because he broke his legs and back with the fall.. and also was unable to move for a long time because of that I'm guessing.
I hope Wesley is coming back :( I suppose he is because he's on the next cover.. but still. Love that Groo is back I really like him. Not quite sure what Spider is talking about.. very in depth. Will have to re-read. I liked how she told Spike how he has a bond with Angel.
And whoah.. yeah it does look like the slayer sythe.. just not red.. so I didn't see it.

[VisionGuy]

Did anybody else laugh their ass off at the She-Skip scene? LMAO!

[alexa]

Took me a while to realize what you were talking about VG :p Heh it is a she-skip ...that's really odd.
Wonder what's up with the flying cars in that future scene with Spike.. maybe he'll be in Fray.. damn that'd be awesome.

Shouldn't someone stake this thread, and un-stake the #3 one?

[Angel's vision]

I enjoyed it, I was reading some before work the other day and someone turnedd round and said "What's that green thing?" lol they obviously saw Lorne on the page I was reading, that tickled me!
Anyway I was wondering where Angel went near the end cos you only see Lorne and Wes before he fades and Lorne's reaction to him was funny.

[Clem Rocks]

Angel was walking down the road, talking to Groo

[thegifting]

Do you think we'll ever find out what Groosalug's actual name is?

[Joyce Summers]

Do you think we'll ever find out what Groosalug's actual name is?

It's probably something amusingly simple like....Barry.

[Clem Rocks]

Groosalugg isn't Groo's real name?...

[Allycat]

Groosalugg isn't Groo's real name?...

I thought that was his real name too. Although, I guess some people called him The Groosalugg, so it might be a title instead.

[alexa]

Did you guys see how Mark Lutz is reading After the Fall?
MySpace.com - Mark Lutz - 100 - Male - Hollywood, US - www.myspace.com/147340178
(http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=147340178)

How cute is that.

[Joyce Summers]

That is cute- though whether he'd be glad we find it cute, I do not know. Haha. On that though I had to move on and read his blog and he's vair, vair amusing. Like Joss-Style amusing. And he ended up going on about cheese graters.....

Okay that was ever so slightly off-topic but hey- I'm up later (or early) and so possibly delirious.

[thegifting]

I thought that was his real name too. Although, I guess some people called him The Groosalugg, so it might be a title instead.

He earned it by being the undefeated champion, according to my recollection. The Groosalugg happened to have cow's blood, you know?

His mother's name was Periwinkle, so we know 'cows' give each other names in Pylea.

[Tranquillity]

A short poll about A:ATF#4 - join in if you like:)

Which cover did you get?

The Urru with Gun on the Cover, just saw the virgin Robinson for $15 at my comic shop, now I’m regretting not buying it.

Favourite character

Spike – I like how he won’t condone using Illyria for nefarious purposes, and also how he seems to be keeping his eye on all the balls in play, Lords, Angel, mysterious artefacts and the people of LA.

Angel – Love that he’s continuing the fight even though he is human and its hard.

Favourite surprise

That Angel has been human from moments after Not fade Away ended, and happy to discover how he was incapacitated for ‘months’.

Lorne is a Lord, and of course he’s managed to do it without violence and it’s a beautiful place to be (in its own demonic way)

Least favourite surprise

It’s least favourite, so I’d have to say Groo’s sudden appearance. He was never a fav of mine. I actually quite like the idea and I’m keen to see how it plays out.

Spider still doesn’t have any clothes on! (well that’s not such a surprise, just a disappointment)

Favourite panel of art

The panels of Angel looking out the window at W&H, and you can see his reflection. Yup, our boy really is human.

Gunn looking at the old photo of Team Angel.

Wolfram and Hart go BOOM!

FutureSpike!

Favourite line of dialogue

A: Heart Racing?

A: We agreed not to say that out loud. Fine. You said the H Word, let’s…let’s vent our feelings because we both love that.

W: Oh, my. Maybe its my time…maybe I can walk into the light…I can’t leave now! He needs me! He Needs Me! Angel, you need me, right? Because if you don’t…

NotFuries: Angel – Angel – We came for you – for you Angel. For you – Come with us - into the light – walk into the light – the light blue Acura – walk into the light blue Acura – it’s in the garage – the parking garage – with other wonderful cars.

G: …almost made the whole damn thing worth it.

Least favourite line of dialogue

None, although I don’t like Lorne’s suit.

Question you most want answered

Where is Wesley? Will we get him back anytime soon? How?
What did that ‘oh’ mean on the first page?
What is Spider’s game? I don’t trust her a bit.
What is the significance, if any of that Hagun Shaft?
Timeslips – no questions, I just want answers.
Can’t wait for this big All-Lord/Champion confrontation, will it be in the next issue?

[CharmedSlayer85]

I dont' know about the rest of you guys but I'm not as interested in Angel as I am the Buffy comics. Angel just seems to be ALL over the place.

[palabravampiress]

^ I agree, CharmedSlayer85. I have a much harder time following Angel. It's not as funny. It doesn't hold my interest as much.

That said, how does everyone feel about Angel being human? I found it kind of disappointing. I mean, a vampire glamour? Really? It just seems sort of like a gimmick or a cheap thrill.

I did really enjoy Groo's dialogue, though. It was funny. I think he needs to deal with Cordy's death, though, and that Lorne needs to have changed more as a result of having committed murder.