Discussion of 8.12 "Wolves at the Gate # 1" Released 03/05/07 (Dark Horse) [Archive]

Five

03-05-2008, 03:09 PM

This "episode" was so surprising.

First of all, as I've already discussed, Buffy sleeping with Satsu. The only thing coming to my mind is "WTF???!!!". I was so surprised I didn't even think it was real.

Karma's a bitch for Buffy when everybody finds out she's been doing the nasties, though.

Willow's back : yaaaay !!! I wish she'd never leave again.

The new vamps are interesting, I kind of thought of Dracula when they were discussing their strange powers but Xander actually going to his house was really great, I love how they re-use past elements from the TV show. I'm looking forward to finding out what the scythe-stealing is about. "It's the scythe scythe. My scythe."

PS : forgive me for my English which must not be very good, I'm French. I hope you don't mind.

goldenboy

03-06-2008, 07:45 AM

I hadn't read the NYT spoiler stuff, so I was caught off guard. Honestly, I was shocked, then kind of pissed and sad, for minute or so. They're messing with a core character in this fairly radical way for...what? Some kind of comic book stunt?

But yeah, it makes some kind of sense, in the context of this season, especially. And she was so broody and isolated, end of last issue. Then it just started turning into a beautiful farce as everybody kept walking in on them, lol. Great scene. It actually reminded me of a scene in Y: The Last Man.

Loved the Superman stuff with Andrew and Willow, brilliant. Dawn sleeps in a barn, heh. The new Japanese vamps are quite cool.

And I officially love the look of this book now. Better paper, Jeanty's style has settled into something consistently good, and Michelle Madsen...she does great coloring. It's more muted, naturalistic. Not sure if she's gonna be a regular or not.

Allycat

03-06-2008, 12:32 PM

Wow, great issue! Loved it! It was over quite fast though, that was sort of a bummer. I'm glad they're bringing the funnies back into the series, because S8 has been kinda lacking the light stuff. And the scene where everybody finds out about Buffy was too funny.

I'm glad the Xander/Renee thing is moving forward. Even though I'm still pretty sure that she's Mottler's daughter and thus the inside man. I think that Rander and Batsu (that sounds funny) are just ways to set things up for Bander. :D

I did read the NYT article, so I had an idea of what was coming. I was a bit sceptical at first, but after reading the issue, I thought it was completely believable: very well executed.

And as for the main-plot; it seems interesting, even though we've really only seen the set-up of it. I like that they're bringing Dracula in and that they're addressing "Antique".

I am kinda bummed that I didn't get the variant though... I'm thinking about e-Baying it. Or if anyone wants to trade, I got a regular for you. ;)

In response to your queries, goldenboy: I think Scott Allie confirmed somewhere that Michelle would be staying.

Canon

03-06-2008, 01:17 PM

I enjoyed this issue, but it was over way too fast :( I need to read more!

I'm interested to find out more about these new vamps and what they're up to. And that bit with everyone walking in on Buffy and Satsu was just brilliant, I couldn't stop laughing.

Senior Watcher

03-06-2008, 01:25 PM

dont be mad at me folks, but i didnt read any of your posts yet because i dont want to be 'spoiled.'

i bought the issue 12 today, and it is sitting/staring right at me. im gonna read it about 5 minutes from now, then ill read the posts.

i have high expectations of it since drew is now involved.

Cangel

03-06-2008, 03:03 PM

Okay, remember how I said I don't like comics and wanted to wait til maybe a seaosn 8 book gets pulished? Well now I read some spoilers and jus want to read the comics right away! I just don't know where to get them :(

CharmedSlayer85

03-06-2008, 03:26 PM

I definitely think this was the best issue so far. I am definitely looking forward to reading the rest of this story arc, I absolutely LOVE It. It's good to see Dracula make a return, and I thought everybody coming in on Buffy and Satsu was pure genius, even Dawn woke up and saw her lol. I was a little worried that they'd repeat Season Six with Buffy having this secret sexual relationship with somebody for like most of the season, but I'm glad that didn't happen. I'm definitely interested in these Dracula-like vampires, are they trying to reverse the spell do they even have that kind of power? Guess we'll see

Senior Watcher

03-06-2008, 04:49 PM

ok. awesome episode. i had heard that something major happens in this one.........but i have to say, 3 major things happen.

1. buffy and satsu. what a great scene. i lmao when everyone kept walking in on them. the best line so far is in this comic: andrew: "hi naked asian girl."
2. the vamps stealing the scythe in a castle full of slayers?! how did they get away with this? they knew exactly where to go. there must be a mole.
3. DRACULA IS BACK!

10/10. i cant wait for the rest of the arc.

Tranquillity

03-06-2008, 06:14 PM

I borrowed this discussion idea from over at the IDW boards.

Which cover did you get?

Standard, Jon Foster one, hopefully getting the variant later today.

Favourite character

Xander - great lines, consistently in character, brave even in the face of the fact that he goes ‘wonky’ in the presence of Dracula

Favourite surprise

I’m gonna say Dracula – how handsome did they draw that guy?
Oh, and hey, Xander can fly a helicopter!

Least favourite surprise

I’m gonna have to say Bufsu. I’m yet to be convinced that it’s purposeful and a natural character development. I’ve read what both Joss and Scott Allie have to say on the topic and yeah, no, still not working for me. I’m hopeful that it will make sense as the story unfolds – I do trust Joss! Plus the whole everyone walking in on them afterwards? Sure there are some funny lines (from Xander and Andrew) but I was embarrassed for the girls, as I was when Reilly walked in on Buffy with Spike, as I would be if it happened to me! I know it’s supposed to be farce of the bawdy French variety but nah, didn’t quite work for me. Actually, the more I read this issue this part looks more and more like filler that is included purely to lengthen the story so that upcoming issues have their cliff-hangers in the right place. I would have preferred to see Willow take on Kumiko.

Favourite panel of art

After buffy says she doesn’t like it when people touch her stuff and the vampire dude touches it with the tip of his finger – that’s classic Buffy.

And when Kumiko grabs Willow – all that fog swirling, Will’s eyes and a very cool looking attacker. Very nice.

Willow and Andrew flying together is nice too.

Favourite line of dialogue

There’s quite a few:

X: No, no- I was right the first time. Those are wolves. We got wolves at the gate.

X: Oh merciful Zeus!

X: I wasn’t aware we had an alarm for this, but yes, sound the alarm.

A: How much Dramamine did I take?

B: I really don’t like it when people touch my stuff!

W: Nothing makes sense tonight.

X: What? Why’s everyone staring at… aw crap

D: Hello manservant.
X: Hey, how’s it going… Master.

Least favourite line of dialogue

I think I covered what I didn’t like about this issue, can’t pin it to a specific line.

Question you most want answered

Are the new mob of vampire who have stolen the scythe in league with Dracula or just know some of his parlour tricks?
Why do they want the scythe?
Is Xander still in Dracula's thrall?
Is Satsu the traitor or have some ulterior motive?
How will Willow react to Buffy’s experimentation?
When is Dawn going to shrink back? (not expecting resolution on this one any time soon)

Lyri

03-07-2008, 05:05 PM

gotta say, when i read N4H's spoiler, i was really hoping that Batsu was a dream on Satsu's part...not that i'm against Buffy making it with a girl, lol, it was just, in her big speech to Satsu, she seemed really made-her-mind-up-y.
but after reading it, i thought it was really well handled...i was even okay with the 'let's be friends' scene, if they'd chosen to end it there. but EVERYONE walking in on them? has to be the best scene of the comic so far. Xander was hilarious! his hand clamped over his eye, the look on his and Renee's faces when Andrew walked in was priceless. Andrew's 'Hello, nakes Asian girl' line was so funny, and Buffy reaction, 'Everyone out of my room!' although, looking back, if she'd said 'Get out! Get out! GET OUT!' i would have laughed more, lol

i loved the scenes between Renee and Xander...i'm really starting to dig that ship. (and didn't that sentence sound weird?) i think they're very sweet together. and i loved the fact that Xander chose Renee to go with him to help keep him together when he faced Dracula.

i adored the scene with Dracula. i'm glad they kept that storyline running, and made reference to 'Antique' even if there's been no mention of the Slayers Buffy was with in that story, lol.

i'm not sure where they're gonna take the whole Batsu (is that what we're going with?) storyline. i'll wait until next issue to make my mind up. i'm not sure i love the Batsu ship, but that's probably because i'm wainting on Spike breaking outta hell to sweep her off her feet, lol.

Spike Angelus

03-07-2008, 05:53 PM

I liked it. The Japanese vamps with Drac's powers seem to be a new twist. I've got no theories on how that works, so I guess I have to wait and see.
I read the NYT article, so I knew about Buffy/Satsu. Doesn't bug me a bit. People experiment,no biggie. It doesn't change WHO she is. She's still our Buffy.
But the way everyone kept walking in: classic! It's Xander's fantasy come true...lol.

Clem Rocks

03-07-2008, 08:52 PM

Question you most want answered
Why do they want the scythe?

To deactivate all the Slayerettes so that the balance is restored

Questions i want answered the most:

Since when did Xander have premonitions?
Surely one of the Slayerettes must have seen the wolf with the M? running away and thought that just maybe, stopping that one would be more important than stopping the others? =|
Why has Buffy moved the Scythe to the armory anyway? Surely it would be safer in her room with her?
Does the little mountainey bit infront of Drac's castle look like Mottler's and Twilight's meeting place to anyone else?
And most importantly, why does the Japanese vamp have a sheet of newspaper hanging from him crouch?! XD

And my thoughts after reading this issue:
Andrew for inside man
Japanese vamps might not actually be evil
Where the hell is the rest of my comic? D= it seems so short this month =[ and it's not that good compared to the last one, i have a feeling that A Beautiful Sunset is gonna stay the best issue for a while...

Evilyn

03-07-2008, 10:52 PM

So, I just got my issue today and I enjoyed it overall. I don't agree with Buffy sleeping with Satsu. Not because I don't like her being with a girl, but she shouldn't mess with Satsu like that. If she wanted to experiment, it should have been with someone that wasn't in love with her like Satsu is. Buffy pretty much used her and I don't think she will become romantically involved with Satsu and that usually doesn't end well. While it was fun for both, I'm sure it meant so much more to Satsu on an emotional level where as Buffy was just having fun. That combination usually leads to disaster.

The last two pages were my favorite, where Renee and Xander are conversing on the way to Drac's castle. He's explaining that she's there to keep an eye on him because he gets all wonky around Drac and when she asks wonky how, he doesnt resond. Then the exchange between Dracula and Xander is priceless. They also made Dracula really hot. I mean like, really hot, so I'm curious to see interaction between him and Buffy. I don't think she was attracted to him before because of his ability to enthrall her, I think she was genuinely attracted to him. Should be could comedy/chemistry for upcoming issues.

I think Satsu will be the one to betray Buffy, just because of my earlier statement. I think Buffy will end up hurting her and it will result in some sort of betrayal. I don't think she's the inside man, unless what she and Buffy did was a diversion so the WereVamps could get into the castle and get the scythe. I mean, it was the perfect diversion. I dunno, probably not, I'm just casting out theories there.

I also liked the addition of Mr. Gordo on the floor by Buffy's bed. I get a kick out of stuff like that. Like in one of the first issues, the cross that Angel gave her was hanging on her dresser top. Little things like that make me smile.

white avenger

03-07-2008, 11:38 PM

How does this tie in with the on line comic with Dracula and his "manservant"? In that, Buffy came to rescue Xander after he had been with Drac for a YEAR. Does that mean that he'll be gone for the rest of Season 8?

nerd4hire

03-08-2008, 04:07 AM

They also made Dracula really hot. I mean like, really hot, so I'm curious to see interaction between him and Buffy. I don't think she was attracted to him before because of his ability to enthrall her, I think she was genuinely attracted to him. Should be could comedy/chemistry for upcoming issues.

OK, don't shoot the messenger here Evilyn ;), but I have to burst your bubble.

Drew Goddard's Buffyverse Dracula is much like Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula in Bram Stoker's Dracula, (and possibly even Bram Stoker's original Dracula himself), in reality an ugly old man. The young, handsome Dracula is a glamor. It's a disguise. We know this from the Tales of the Vampires story Antique (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=11-756&p=1).

Speaking of the old comedy sketch where a room gradually fills with people at an inopportune moment, has anybody ever heard of the famous "stateroom scene" from the Marx Brothers comedy classic Night at the Opera"?

Here's a link (http://www.nightattheopera.net/stateroom.html)

Back to Wolves at the Gate though...were those fingernail scratch marks on Satsu's back?

Clem Rocks

03-08-2008, 05:56 AM

Back to Wolves at the Gate though...were those fingernail scratch marks on Satsu's back?

*Goes to check* I did not notice that before O_O either they're trying to tell us that she's fought the werevamps before, or that Buffy's pretty feisty in bed XD

Evilyn

03-08-2008, 07:25 AM

OK, don't shoot the messenger here Evilyn ;), but I have to burst your bubble.

Drew Goddard's Buffyverse Dracula is much like Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula in Bram Stoker's Dracula, (and possibly even Bram Stoker's original Dracula himself), in reality an ugly old man. The young, handsome Dracula is a glamor. It's a disguise. We know this from the Tales of the Vampires story Antique (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=11-756&p=1).

Speaking of the old comedy sketch where a room gradually fills with people at an inopportune moment, has anybody ever heard of the famous "stateroom scene" from the Marx Brothers comedy classic Night at the Opera"?

Here's a link (http://www.nightattheopera.net/stateroom.html)

Back to Wolves at the Gate though...were those fingernail scratch marks on Satsu's back?

You know, I bought the Tales of the Vampires and I haven't read them all yet. I got them right around the time I moved and they are still packed away. Guess I should look into that...

I didn't notice marks the first run thru, but now that you mention it, does appear to be scratches of some nature. Could be scars from her encounter with Twilight. Do slayers scar? I mean, I know Buffy has the bite scar, but that's different. Like, does Faith have a scar from Graduation?

sosa lola

03-08-2008, 08:17 AM

Now that I've read the issue again, I must say, it's just awesome!

Haven't laughed like this in a long time.

Loved the little touches, Buffy's pink pig PJs (Buffy's fave animal must be a pig) as well as her UC Sunnydale shirt, loved seeing Leah and Rewona again, Dawn sleeping in a barn full of bees (do vampires turn to bees? That's new info), Andrew's sleepwear. Ha!. Renee wearing a matching outfit like Xander -girl is obessesed- Buffy's post-sex conversation with Satsu, and everybody discovering it as well as Xander's dream. The Japanese vamps looked cool.

The best part was the Xander/Dracula meeting!!! Aww! I've read so many Xander/Spike slave fics that this scene got me in the best way.(I didn't like Antique, though.)

The drawing of characters is really good, Dracula looks better here than on the show, Xander is spot on, Buffy looked like Buffy in some panels, what we saw of Dawn through the window was good. This is the first time I didn't like how Willow was drawn, but she looked pretty after she fell into Buffy's room and noticed Buffy being naked with Satsu. Jeanity hadn't got Andrew right, though.

TabulaRasa

03-08-2008, 03:15 PM

BUFFY'S BACK BABY!!! Now this is the best issue to me so far of this season. I literally threw my head back and laughed, also alot of OMG's. It really kept me focused and on the edge of my seat. I am so pleased to say!

And what's funnier than Dawn sleeping in a barn with her legs sticking out? You know, besides the Buffy bedroom scene of course.

Man, what a great issue. I'm so happy I went and got it early.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-08-2008, 03:40 PM

Actually, in the original Dracula, he grew younger as he fed. Jonathan Harker first notes this when he finds Dracula sleeping in his coffin in the depths of the castle. The implication is that he'd drained the locals of so much vitality that they no longer did more than simply keep him alive (or that they were so wary of him that he was finding it hard to find victims, or both.)

No. She had three or four thin strands of hair in tight braids. They're visible lying against her pillow in both these images.

nerd4hire

03-08-2008, 04:42 PM

Good eagle eyes on the braids Rowan.

On the Dracula thing...so that's from the Bram Stoker book right? But from the Coppola movie it still appears the real Dracula is an old monster at the end right, or did I miss something there as well? I do believe the implication is pretty clear in Antique the real Dracula is old in actual appearance.

Actually we also know Buffyverse Dracula is an old man from the preview of # 13, don't we?

Spoiler Preview # 13 (http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/preview.php?theid=14-830&p=1)

Rowan Hawthorn

03-08-2008, 04:56 PM

On the Dracula thing...so that's from the Bram Stoker book right? But from the Coppola movie it still appears the real Dracula is an old monster at the end right, or did I miss something there as well? I do believe the implication is pretty clear in Antique the real Dracula is old in actual appearance.
Right, what I posted is from the original novel. For all its P.R., the Coppola movie diverged from the novel almost as much as any of its predecessors did. And in "Antiques", it does indeed appear to be a glamour rather than revitalization as in the original novel.

nerd4hire

03-08-2008, 05:14 PM

I know Goddard's a movie geek, but I wonder if he's even read the book. I know I haven't. I alway's just assumed the two were pretty close. I do believe Drew borrowed (homaged?) a bit from the Coppola flic though.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-08-2008, 11:22 PM

The novel is definitely worth reading, although it's obviously dated, and can be tough wading through due to the format (it's mostly written as a series of journal entries and letters by the various characters.)

Blondie Bear

03-09-2008, 11:41 AM

Okay, I just got the comic and read it last night, and now I'm in a funk.

I heartily dislike the Buffy-Satsu thing. It feels forced and contrived and completely outside of Buffy's character, especially with that speech in the last issue. The only way I see it fitting into Buffy's character at all is that she's lonely, misses the sex, and finds Satsu convenient--just like she was lonely and found Spike convenient in S6. And I would have thought that S6 would have taught Buffy better about using people like that.

And at least when Willow started "experimenting" with a woman, we had warning signs. This came out of absolutely nowhere--it seemed pretty obvious to ME at least that although Satsu was in love with Buffy, Buffy had always been strictly heterosexual. NEVER in the ENTIRETY of the series did anyone HINT that Buffy might even be CURIOUS. And then BLAMMO, there she is in bed with Satsu.

I know it's weird, but I feel somewhat betrayed and very disappointed.

The rest of the comic was great, though. I liked Andrew and his Superman thing, Xander and Renee finally taking another step toward being together, and Dracula's reappearance.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 12:50 PM

And at least when Willow started "experimenting" with a woman, we had warning signs. This came out of absolutely nowhere--it seemed pretty obvious to ME at least that although Satsu was in love with Buffy, Buffy had always been strictly heterosexual. NEVER in the ENTIRETY of the series did anyone HINT that Buffy might even be CURIOUS.

Anyone who didn't see the subtext in Buffy & Faith's relationship just wasn't looking. It was way less subtle than any hints we'd gotten for Willow prior to "Doppelgängland" - or even after "Doppelgängland", for that matter, right up until Willow's little "Oh, my..." moment in "Hush". And this has been set up right from Buffy's "Sleeping Beauty" moment. It doesn't necessarily mean that Buffy's gonna suddenly discover that she's gay or even bi, but it's not out of nowhere, either.

Some things I'm curious about are:

When Buffy was under Amy's spell, Willow knew someone in the room was in love with Buffy, and she was careful to respect their feelings; but, did she know who it was? I mean, did she hear them thinking (we know she can if she wants to,) or did she just tune in to the emotions in the room? And Willow's hurt, but is that because her best friend didn't talk to her (they should all be used to that by now, because all of them have that fault, but when Willow bit the bullet and came out to Buffy, she didn't really have to at the time - she could have sidestepped the issue. Of course, it still would have come out soon thereafter, but still...) or because she actually harbors some feelings for Buffy (you could make a pretty good case for Willow having a bit of a crush on Buffy even when she might not have been aware of it herself,) or simply because, as she said once before, "I have a problem with Faith sharing my people"? (I think you could fairly replace "Faith" with pretty much anyone's name; I love Willow, but she does have issues...)

I don't think that it would necessarily have been a mistake for Buffy to sleep with Satsu, except that Satsu is under her command. So, there are going to be problems, no matter how it works out otherwise. Add to that the fact that Buffy is embarrassed (not so much that it was Satsu, but just because it's new, and they got caught at an extremely vulnerable time,) Satsu is embarrassed and hurt (enough to be the "traitor" that everyone's looking for? I hope not.) the entire Keystone Kops crew that busted in on them is embarrassed, and it's problems all around. So, now might be a good time to shake the BHC with a rousing chorus of "Where Do We Go From Here?"

We know how the new vamps managed to slip by Xander and Renee: they came in animal form and mist. Willow was preoccupied when the one came as mist to attack her. But how did they manage to bypass the mystical wards on the castle? Maybe the mole is one of the castle's mystics instead of a Slayer.

Speaking of Willow, that was a helluva fall she took. The only way I could see her surviving that is by putting up a shield around herself, which then raises another question: exactly how did Kumiko manage to "bring her down"? Willow isn't physically all that strong, but in "Wrecked", she flash-fried a demon in the blink of an eye - don't think she'd have much trouble doing the same to a vampire. Of course, she was caught by surprise, which could have caused her to lose the concentration necessary to stay airborne, but then, she did survive falling through the roof of Buffy's bedroom.

Thoughts?

Blondie Bear

03-09-2008, 12:54 PM

Anyone who didn't see the subtext in Buffy & Faith's relationship just wasn't looking. It was way less subtle than any hints we'd gotten for Willow prior to "Doppelgängland" - or even after "Doppelgängland", for that matter, right up until Willow's little "Oh, my..." moment in "Hush". And this has been set up right from Buffy's "Sleeping Beauty" moment. It doesn't necessarily mean that Buffy's gonna suddenly discover that she's gay or even bi, but it's not out of nowhere, either.

I saw tons of subtext . . . on FAITH'S side. I never saw reciprocity on Buffy's. The closest it came was the whole "Really, we're just good friends" thing, but I saw that the same way I saw Buffy teasing Angel about having a "date" with her father . . . and I very heartily doubt that she has an Elektra Complex. And no, I don't think that Buffy will just up and turn gay/bi (if she does, it will COMPLETELY betray the integrity of the character and I will probably quit reading altogether), but I dislike the lack of foreshadowing and the lack of explanation in the character as already developed.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 01:44 PM

I saw tons of subtext . . . on FAITH'S side. I never saw reciprocity on Buffy's.
And yet, Buffy kept being drawn by Faith's "seduction".

And no, I don't think that Buffy will just up and turn gay/bi (if she does, it will COMPLETELY betray the integrity of the character
?? I don't particularly care one way or the other, but I'm at a complete loss to understand why people think this.

and I will probably quit reading altogether),
Oh, jeez...

but I dislike the lack of foreshadowing and the lack of explanation in the character as already developed.

I don't really see any particular lack of foreshadowing - especially this season - and we haven't gotten far enough along in the story to expect any more explanation than we already have seen, but I also don't get why everything has to be "foreshadowed" as such. Going back to Willow, there were exactly the same comments when she came out, and when she turned to doing Bad Things. And yet, in Real Life, I'm constantly hearing:

"I never thought s/he'd 'turn gay'."
"I never thought s/he'd ever have a drug problem."
"I can't believe s/he'd ever kill anybody."

Sometimes things happen in the real world without a lot of forewarning, and I personally don't subscribe to the idea that everything that happens in fiction should be led up to so that you see it coming a mile away. That's usually called "predictable," "formulaic," or just plain "bad writing." I do expect to have most of the important issues tied up at some point, though.

Blondie Bear

03-09-2008, 01:49 PM

This isn't the Real World, though. This is fiction. In fiction, readers expect a certain amount of warning for things like this (unless you're reading a thriller or mystery). In fiction, there is a thing known as "in character," in which characters have a certain set of morals and actions that do not change without reason or warning. In fiction, we are supposed to know as much about the character as possible. In Real Life, this isn't possible, but in both, there are ALWAYS reasons for what people do. Perhaps we shouldn't see it coming a MILE away, but there should at least be subtle clues so that we can look back and go "Oh, yeah. . ." like when Spike got his soul instead of a chipectomy. If Joss is going to step so far out of basic writing conventions, then yes, I will probably quit reading this just like I'd quit reading any piece of literature that violates such conventions.

As for Faith's "seduction," I saw Buffy giving in to the darkness and power that were ALREADY IN HER, not anything sexual coming from Faith.

TabulaRasa

03-09-2008, 02:29 PM

I would never quit reading if Buffy ended up with a girl, but I don't think it would work. Which is why it wont happen! So no worries all. I had a hard time with it, still am, but it's not that big of a deal I guess. I am only having a hard time because I'm jealous, HAHAHAHA, not but seriously, it's not as bad as I thought.

I still believe Buffy's heart belongs to Angel and she will be with either him or Spike one day, prob Angel.

nerd4hire

03-09-2008, 02:37 PM

Experimenting Buffy I can live with, but Gay Buffy would be too much of a challenge. It would cheapen all her previous romantic tragedies. You'd have to look at them all in a different context. She'd become a different character. And no it wouldn't feel like the same thing as gay Willow. I can make make guesses on why, but it just wouldn't.

I'd have a bigger problem with experimenting Faith. She seems too confident in her sexuality. She knows who she is, and what she wants. I wouldn't be surprised with Faith if it was a case of been there, done that, moved on. Right now though she appears to know who she is, and what she wants as far as the sex is concerned. Buffy has always been a little romantically confused, and open minded to the gay experience, so I can see her checking out one particularly interesting situation under the right conditions.

I wonder though, does the whole Buffyverse now open up to the idea of experimentation. What's this weird attraction Dracula has for Xander? Will a girl on girl experiment now become attractive to Dawn, who always seems to be following in the footsteps of big sis?

Keanoite

03-09-2008, 03:03 PM

I'm with Blondie Bear. This whole thing seems staged, false and contrived. I just don't buy it. They say Buffy is experimenting, fine, but I don't believe she would ever choose to do that with someone under her charge, male or female. It just isn't Buffy. I honestly feel like it cheapens the show a little, like we're waiting to see which character is next to 'experiment'.

nerd4hire

03-09-2008, 03:18 PM

I kind of have a problem with that one too, just as I did with the Willow/Kennedy thing, but they have made it clear from the beginning Buffy has some kind of attraction to Satsu, and you don't get to pick who you're attracted to. Then there were the events of last issue leading into this one, the "hungry or horny after a slay" thing - all these mitigating factors.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 03:21 PM

Will a girl on girl experiment now become attractive to Dawn, who always seems to be following in the footsteps of big sis?

With Dawn, I don't think it's big sis whose footsteps she'd more likely follow in that direction. She was ecstatic when Willow & Tara got back together; now, granted, that was because they were sort of surrogate mothers to her, but it also means she didn't have any problems with them being together in the first place, and never exhibited any previously, either.

Keanoite

03-09-2008, 03:21 PM

Sorry, I just don't get this "cheapens" deal at all. As for Satsu being under Buffy's command, I don't know how anyone missed that, since it's one of the biggest problems people have been having with this - and, IMO, about the only valid one so far

Well clearly people haven't missed it if they are discussing it in the forum. When you say you don't get how it 'cheapens' it what exactly do you mean? To me it cheapens the show because it feels like this whole thing was only done for publicity not becuase it was something the character would do.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 03:31 PM

Well clearly people haven't missed it if they are discussing it in the forum.

Here's what I was referring to:
Blondie Bear agrees: Yay, Kean! Good point about Satsu being under her charge, too; I hadn't thought of that angle.

Clearly, some people missed it.

When you say you don't get how it 'cheapens' it what exactly do you mean? To me it cheapens the show because it feels like this whole thing was only done for publicity not becuase it was something the character would do.
Sorry, my fault - I thought you were meant that last. I agree, if it was done just for publicity, it's a crap idea - just like all the fanfics where every single character turns out to be gay. But I really don't think that it was done for that reason; not to say that Dark Horse didn't maybe have that in mind when they advertised it, just that the story wasn't, IMO, written that way just to bump up sales. Nothing in Willow & Tara's story was ever done that way, nor in Buffy's - everything was done with an eye to the story, and where it took the characters. Why would we just automatically assume this is any different?

nerd4hire

03-09-2008, 03:31 PM

I wonder if people who wait to read the story in the TPB are going to be more warm to the idea of Buffy experimenting, because of the way 8.11 sets it up. It won't be quite so out of nowhere.

TabulaRasa

03-09-2008, 03:37 PM

Also think about this, how would we be reacting if it had been Faith that Buffy ended up in bed with? Even if it was a one time thing? Would we all be saying "FINALLY!" or would we be acting the same? So, we need to look at it from that point of view also. If it would have been ok with Faith, why not with Satsu?
There is of course the factor that Buffy and Faith seem to have some real chemistry. We haven't had enough time for Buffy and Satsu where chemistry is concerned. Atleast I don't think so.

Keanoite

03-09-2008, 03:43 PM

Sorry, my fault - I thought you were meant that last. I agree, if it was done just for publicity, it's a crap idea - just like all the fanfics where every single character turns out to be gay. But I really don't think that it was done for that reason; not to say that Dark Horse didn't maybe have that in mind when they advertised it, just that the story wasn't, IMO, written that way just to bump up sales. Nothing in Willow & Tara's story was ever done that way, nor in Buffy's - everything was done with an eye to the story, and where it took the characters. Why would we just automatically assume this is any different?

For me the Tara and Willow romance seemed like a natual progression of their relationship, it made sense. Buffy and Satsu don't in my honest opinion. Sure they're were undertones with Faith but that was 5 years ago and with FAITH. This is Buffy and Satsu, up until this issue any feelings were one sided and not dealt with in any depth at all, and them bam! its pantypolooza! That's why I don't buy it, in every relationship in the Buffyverse we have been given signs, hints o honking sirens. I really don't feel we have been given that with Buffy and Satsu.

Crazy Flakes

03-09-2008, 03:47 PM

To be honest, I didn't think Buffy/Satsu was just Buffy experimenting...I knew she was going to get into some awkward and/or new...erm...experience as soon as she said "great muppity Odin, I miss the sex" in season 1.

And the fact that she was going to sleep with someone she hadn't done it with before was sort of foreshadowed in The Long Way Home arc, when she had the dream where she was going to sleep with Xander.

To be honest, though, I don't think Batsu will be too much of an issue. I mean, it'll certainly make a few awkward situations, but I think it'll be more like her one night stand with Parker than anything...it'll seem weird, awkward, and even stupid at first, but it should blow over pretty quickly.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 04:31 PM

For me the Tara and Willow romance seemed like a natual progression of their relationship, it made sense. Buffy and Satsu don't in my honest opinion. Sure they're were undertones with Faith but that was 5 years ago and with FAITH. This is Buffy and Satsu, up until this issue any feelings were one sided and not dealt with in any depth at all, and them bam! its pantypolooza! That's why I don't buy it, in every relationship in the Buffyverse we have been given signs, hints o honking sirens. I really don't feel we have been given that with Buffy and Satsu.
It's true we haven't seen everything that's been going on, and that's one of the problems I have with a monthly comic; the show ran in more-or-less real time - each episode was, generally, about a week in the Buffyverse. The comic is running differently - it's difficult to tell how much time elapses between issues, except that Issue 12 obviously doesn't occur the day following Issue 11. Buffy's known Satsu long enough that she's Buffy's "go-to girl"; Buffy considers Satsu her best fighter and a potential successor. But how long is that? And has it really been a month in the Buffyverse between Issues 11 & 12? That's plenty of time for lots of things to happen, but if we see everything, we'll never get the story finished. Willow & Tara's big honking siren happened the first time Tara ever appeared on the show. After that, Tara doesn't appear at all in "Doomed," has a brief scene in "A New Man," and then Willow spends the night in "The 'I' In Team." Now, there's some disagreement as to whether the two of them actually consummated their relationship then, or not until "New Moon Rising," but it was pretty obvious that they were a clandestine couple within three weeks of airtime.

Keanoite

03-09-2008, 05:37 PM

It's true we haven't seen everything that's been going on, and that's one of the problems I have with a monthly comic; the show ran in more-or-less real time - each episode was, generally, about a week in the Buffyverse. The comic is running differently - it's difficult to tell how much time elapses between issues, except that Issue 12 obviously doesn't occur the day following Issue 11. Buffy's known Satsu long enough that she's Buffy's "go-to girl"; Buffy considers Satsu her best fighter and a potential successor. But how long is that? And has it really been a month in the Buffyverse between Issues 11 & 12? That's plenty of time for lots of things to happen, but if we see everything, we'll never get the story finished. Willow & Tara's big honking siren happened the first time Tara ever appeared on the show. After that, Tara doesn't appear at all in "Doomed," has a brief scene in "A New Man," and then Willow spends the night in "The 'I' In Team." Now, there's some disagreement as to whether the two of them actually consummated their relationship then, or not until "New Moon Rising," but it was pretty obvious that they were a clandestine couple within three weeks of airtime.

Maybe that poses the question of whether the comic is really working as well as we thought. Whedon said he is enjoying the comic because he is able to do things that never would have happened on the show i.e. Giant Dawn and Buffy and Satsu. Do either of these things really work? Of course Whedon should push the boundaries but I can't help but feel that if this is the continuation of the show things that never would have happened on air don't really have any business happening in comic book panels.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 06:13 PM

I'm enjoying the comic, it's my own impatience that gets to me, but there are issues that are specific to this medium:

I like Jeanty's art, and I don't expect photo-realism (the art so far has been miles above most of what I was used to in the comics I grew up with,) but because the characters and the actors are so deeply connected for me, it's a little jarring sometimes when the characters look especially not-like the actors. Most of the time I'm okay with it, though (now that they've fixed Willow's eye color...)

A big plus is that the dialogue sounds like the characters; a big minus is that the dialogue isn't as layered as on the series. Can't be helped, though; it would be nearly impossible to replicate an episode exactly in comic form.

The time thing - this is probably the biggie. If you were to try replicating an episode, with every little nuance and detail, one issue would be six inches thick and cost a fortune. And, there's that once-a-month deal. So, by necessity, there are lots of stuff that simply can't be covered, or has to be covered in less detail - or, it may be filled in later; One of the first questions people started asking about Season 8 was: "How did they afford that BHC and all that high-tech equipment?" Well, now we know. We also know, though, that they're not exactly rolling in cash: Xander has only two of his commando outfits, Dawn sleeps in the barn (without, it seems, having had any remodeling done to it. Like an extension so her feet don't stick out,) and Xander mentions that they couldn't afford enough beer to get Dawn drunk if Buffy stole the Yankees. So, it looks like the money, beyond purchasing equipment, is pretty much going for necessities for the most part (Buffy does mention that the Slayers needed the party Xander set up. Wonder if it's their first?)

But, then, to a lesser extent, the show had to deal with that, as well; there were lots of things that had to be skipped in order to actually tell the story.

When's Willow's birthday? Or Xander's? We don't know, because it was never essential to the story. I've always assumed that Willow was a little younger than Xander, but I have no evidence for it.

What happened the night Willow stayed with Tara in "The 'I' In Team"? We don't really know, but we do know that Willow came home with the crystal that Tara had offered her earlier, and that Willow had refused, saying she "wouldn't feel right." Something obviously changed her mind.

We never really got much detail on Faith's background, either - is she younger than Buffy? Older? How many of her stories were just that? She hadn't been a Slayer all that long when she first appeared, only about five months; you wouldn't think she'd had time to get up to so much. (Speaking of foreshadowing, Kendra came out of nowhere, too; but her presence was explained.)

Eh, time to stop rambling for a while.

TabulaRasa

03-09-2008, 06:24 PM

Does anyone else think Wolves At The Gate is the best title so far?

white avenger

03-09-2008, 07:45 PM

TabulaRasa

03-09-2008, 07:51 PM

You mean like Buffy was to Angel?

Anything is possible.

Lyri

03-09-2008, 07:54 PM

Crazy Flakes

03-09-2008, 07:57 PM

what i'm worried about, is if Buffy brushes the incident of as an 'experiment' will this hurt Satsu's feelings? we know she's in love with Buffy, and she probably just had her biggest fantasy come true...what happens if or when Buffy tells her it was a one time thing? will she accept it? or will she fall off the deep end? this could be a set up for Satsu becoming the one who betrays them.

Well, I have a feeling Satsu knows it was at least a one-time deal, maybe an experiment. If I'm remembering correctly, she was the one who said "I know this doesn't mean you're a lesbian now," and even if she didn't, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to do it again after their awkward first time.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 08:05 PM

I know that we belabored this point to death with Willow and Kennedy, but has Satsu's age been established?

No, but she was apparently in school at the time of "Chosen", which means she could have been as much as 18 if she was a senior. Add a year and a half to 2 years - however much time has elapsed since then - and she could easily be 19 or 20.

Blondie Bear

03-09-2008, 08:09 PM

Clearly, some people missed it.

Oh, gee, pardon me for getting so upset about this thing that I heartily disagree with being done to characters that I have had emotional investments in for the last ELEVEN YEARS that I missed one other POSSIBLE reason why this shouldn't be happening until someone else pointed it out. Bad me. I should be flogged.

It may just be the way I'm reading your words, since obviously I can't hear vocal tone, but I'm getting "You're an idiot" overtones to EVERYTHING you're saying. Just because I have a different opinion on this development than you do does NOT mean that my opinion is ANY LESS VALID than yours. I am not speaking to you as though you're slow because you disagree with me, PLEASE extend me the same courtesy.

white avenger

03-09-2008, 08:57 PM

I just re-read the Buffy/Satsu sequence, and I'm not really sure from what Buffy is saying that she really wants it to be a one night stand as much as she just wants to be discreet about it. Inviting Satsu to spend the night doesn't strike me quite the same way as, "Isn't this where you kick me in the head and run away, virtue flying?" Plus, given the fact that since everybody in the castle either knows already or soon will know before the sun sets again (between Xander AND Andrew, the word is bound to slip out, and don't even dare to bring up Andrew knowing about Spike being back and keeping the secret. I have no doubt that he was calling Giles with the news before his plane took off).

Her affair with Spike was more than a one night stand, and it was kept secret, mainly because she knew that her friends would disapprove. Apparently, everybody likes Satsu, and who's gonna object to Buffy havin' somebody to snuggle with, even if they're of the same gendre? Certainly not Willow. Xander accepted it with Willow, I see no reason for him not to with Buffy. Andrew? No way. Giles isn't there, and apparently won't be any time soon.

Clem Rocks

03-09-2008, 09:07 PM

I know that we belabored this point to death with Willow and Kennedy, but has Satsu's age been established? I know that Kennedy was supposed to be 19, but I was under the impression that most Potentials were at least a few years younger, especially since the Bringers had been killing off all of the ones old enough to have come to the Council's attention. My point, obviously: Is Buffy's new snuggle puppy jail bait?

considering they're in Scotland, they'd go by Scotland's age of consent, if it's the same as England's (someone comfirm it), Satsu would have to be about 14 during Chosen, and she looked older than that, so i'd say it's all legal

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 09:35 PM

Oh, gee, pardon me for getting so upset about this thing that I heartily disagree with being done to characters that I have had emotional investments in for the last ELEVEN YEARS that I missed one other POSSIBLE reason why this shouldn't be happening until someone else pointed it out. Bad me. I should be flogged.

It may just be the way I'm reading your words, since obviously I can't hear vocal tone, but I'm getting "You're an idiot" overtones to EVERYTHING you're saying.
Man, just take it however you want. Apparently, you will anyway, since the line you quoted there wasn't even in response to you - Keanoite said that people hadn't missed it, since it was being discussed in the forums, and I pointed out that someone just said they hadn't thought of that angle, so clearly some people had missed it. Look, here's the way it is: I post the way I talk; I'm not necessarily trying to be a smart-ass, but I'm getting pretty damn tired of people having a hissy-fit every time I disagree or contradict something they've said. Yeah, I often do sound sarcastic; sometimes I'm trying to make a point, other times it's just the way I talk and it comes off more blunt than I mean for it to. Deal with it. Or - here's a thought - how about just discuss the issues with me, because I prefer to do that.

I get not liking one plot-line or another, but having said that, I really don't get the level of near-hysteria this one has caused among some posters (not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, and I shouldn't have to put that disclaimer in every frickin' time I post, either.) Emotional investment? Yeah, okay, this is the only show that's ever drawn me in enough to bother getting involved in any sort of fandom activities, on-line or otherwise, and the only one whose characters have drawn me in enough to care about them. So, don't give me emotional investment like you're the only one who cares about these characters. And I don't see this as damaging any of them - yet. We've known from the beginning that all of the characters had flaws and weaknesses, and by the end of Season Seven, they were all damaged goods and prone to making errors in judgment. That makes them a helluva lot more interesting to me than, say, the Big Blue Boyscout, who's Practically Perfect In Every Way. In fact, I rank these characters pretty darn near the top of my list of Favorite Fictional Characters Ever.

To the issues: I think this is an error in judgment on Buffy's part, too; not because sleeping with another woman was particularly a mistake, but sleeping with someone under her command is - no matter what it may be for them personally - a one-night stand, a short-term relationship, a life-changing experience, or the worst mistake either of them ever made - it's going to lead to problems in her command. Both of them are embarrassed, both of them are hurt, and obviously so are Willow and Xander to some degree. And this time there are too many people involved for them to just bottle things up - they're going to have to deal somehow.

And I think it's gonna be a great ride. YMMV. Hell, MMMV by the time we get to the end - but I haven't been disappointed by any of the previous seven seasons so far, even when there were turns in the story that I might have done some other way.

Now - can we just discuss, without all the knicker-twisting? I don't even mind if we argue, bicker, and quibble, but this is all the time I'm going to spare on the drama.

Edit:

I just re-read the Buffy/Satsu sequence, and I'm not really sure from what Buffy is saying that she really wants it to be a one night stand as much as she just wants to be discreet about it.

That's pretty much the way I read it - Buffy's unsure herself right now and wants time to work it out. Man, the bedroom invasion sequence was funny as hell, but I feel really bad for Satsu and Buffy. Talk about a rude awakening (so to speak, since they were already awake...)

Blondie Bear

03-09-2008, 09:43 PM

Hence why I gave you the benefit of the doubt that this was potentially NOT how you meant for this to come across. However, with statements like "Oh, jeez . . ." and "Clearly, some people missed it," I don't think I'm out of line for being offended. Despite how disgusted I might be with someone else's opinion, I don't run around going, "Oh, please" or any similar snarky remarks because I believe they have a right to their opinion and I don't have a right to treat them like an idiot for having it. I am very careful to phrase my remarks exactly the way I mean them, with as much or as little footnoting as necessary to make sure it's obvious how I mean for someone to read what I'm saying. I believe that this habit helps keep people from freaking out and having a hissy over something that I didn't mean the way they read it.

Obviously you're emotionally invested in these characters as well. Why else would you be here? But, again, I heard your tone as saying "This person here who missed this detail is obviously a moron." And it set me off because I've been upset about this whole thing since I read it last night. Maybe I overreacted. But I also feel that it's important to be in strict control of your tone and wording in this text-only environment so that such overreactions are less likely to happen.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-09-2008, 10:15 PM

Hence why I gave you the benefit of the doubt that this was potentially NOT how you meant for this to come across. However, with statements like "Oh, jeez . . ."
Do you have any idea how many times I've heard "If they do 'fitb', I'm going to stop watching/reading/etc" over the last few years? It's one of those things that doesn't give any room for someone to respond. What can you say to that, besides, "Oh, jeez . . ."? Maybe, "We'll miss you?"

and "Clearly, some people missed it," I don't think I'm out of line for being offended.
Again, that was in response to the statement that people hadn't missed it, because it was being discussed. Well, obviously some people had missed that angle - you even said you did. How am I out of line for pointing that out?

Despite how disgusted I might be with someone else's opinion, I don't run around going, "Oh, please" or any similar snarky remarks because I believe they have a right to their opinion and I don't have a right to treat them like an idiot for having it. I am very careful to phrase my remarks exactly the way I mean them, with as much or as little footnoting as necessary to make sure it's obvious how I mean for someone to read what I'm saying. I believe that this habit helps keep people from freaking out and having a hissy over something that I didn't mean the way they read it.

Obviously you're emotionally invested in these characters as well. Why else would you be here? But, again, I heard your tone as saying "This person here who missed this detail is obviously a moron." And it set me off because I've been upset about this whole thing since I read it last night. Maybe I overreacted. But I also feel that it's important to be in strict control of your tone and wording in this text-only environment so that such overreactions are less likely to happen.
It's also, IMO, important to read through other peoples' posts and those leading up to them. I misread intent, too - I did with one of Keanoite's posts earlier. It happens, as you point out, in this text-only environment. Two or three years ago, I was able to spend lots of time composing posts, but I've already spent more time on this one thread than I usually have to spend in a whole day these days.

alexa

03-09-2008, 10:19 PM

So I just got this and I have never laughed so much in a comic before. People were looking at me like I was strange. But I generally really enjoyed this issue, although it did seem short.

I think I've already been through the emotional shock stages of seeing Buffy sleep with a girl, so it didn't really bother me.. well it does a little, but almost as much as Xander saying '..Master' at the end of the book. I thought he wouldn't be so weak minded by now :(

Feel bad for Satsu a little, being blown off. Wouldn't Buffy let her know before that this didn't mean what she wanted it to, plus Buffy was kinda vague afterwards.. like it didn't mean something, but you can stay? wtf?

Willow seemed kinda jealous.. hard to tell with the amount of panels though. I'm guessing a bit of it is jealousy but I feel a bit like Willow atm. We've been away for a while and suddenly Buffy is robbing banks and sleeping with girls?

Xander and Renee are cute I guess.. but bloody hell, why are they so scared of making him the main love interest for Buffy?

nerd4hire

03-09-2008, 10:39 PM

Willow seemed kinda jealous.. hard to tell with the amount of panels though. I'm guessing a bit of it is jealousy but I feel a bit like Willow atm. We've been away for a while and suddenly Buffy is robbing banks and sleeping with girls?

I'm suspecting Willow's feelings about this are many factored, and complicated, but yeah, I bet that's a big one. The whole "Huh? Something's just not right here." response.

white avenger

03-10-2008, 03:08 AM

I know that the entire incident (all of the people busting in, not the Satsu/Buffy interlude) was pretty much if not entirely for its comedic affect AND to sort of make discertion a moot point, but since when does Xander enter Buffy's room without being invited, emergency or not, and at that moment, the wolves were more a curiosity, not a crisis. I can see Willow's entrance, and Dawn's, but Xander, Renee, and Andrew definitely had no business in there without permission.

Keanoite

03-10-2008, 03:18 AM

I don't think people are upset that it was a girl, I think it's because she really shouldn't be having sex with THAT girl. Whedon has said that Buffy is not gay, she is just just experimenting, so that would lead me to believe that this is only a one shot deal and that Satsu has just added herself to the long list of people who have loved and lost Buffy.

white avenger

03-10-2008, 03:55 AM

I think at least a fair amount of what caused the whole thing was Buffy's loneliness (okay, the "missing that sex" thing, so bad that it led to erotic dreams of Xander
probably contributed to it, too) the kind of loneliness only being in command of what amounts to an army can be. It was a bad idea, if not a potential disaster, to bed someone in her command, and I think there will most certainly be repercussions to be faced later for her moment of weakness.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-10-2008, 06:33 AM

I think at least a fair amount of what caused the whole thing was Buffy's loneliness (okay, the "missing that sex" thing, so bad that it led to erotic dreams of Xander
probably contributed to it, too)
Of course, and for those who keep comparing Buffy's actions to how Parker Abrams treated her, this, IMO, is where the real similarities are: in both cases, Buffy was feeling lonely and out of place, and had been in a period of forced abstention for some time.[.quote]

It was a bad idea, if not a potential disaster, to bed someone in her command, and I think there will most certainly be repercussions to be faced later for her moment of weakness.

If there weren't going to be, I seriously doubt the situation would have come up to start with.

Evilyn

03-10-2008, 09:27 AM

....So, um....

I just finished reading Antiqued, N4H and wished I had read it BEFORE reading WATG. Anyhoo, I'm still not sure if it's a glamour as much as it's how Dracula percieves himself. While I know in the next issue, he is physically older, he's not a bald and decrepit old man. He just looks like a homeless person. Long, shaggy, gray beard, and hair and yellowed teeth and nails. Just like someone who has let themselves go, as the little creepy dude in the preview insinuated. If it's as the novel intends, and he retains the essence of youth thru feeding, then he probably ate the peasant boy before Xander and Renee made it to the door. But it could be a glamour too, either way, he obviously thinks he's gotten too old.

And I'm thinking that he obviously has an affiliation with the werevamps, hence the fact that they have all the same powers he does. Could be they were once followers of his and turned on him, because they were tired of his "old" ways. He did say that all he had left was his manservant, his mansion and his carriage. I dunno, this is just me throwing stuff out there.

white avenger

03-10-2008, 10:54 AM

Here's a theory: if Dracula cam morph into a wolf, panther, bat, vapor, or swarm of bees, changing his physical appearance as related to his age and physical condition should be a breeze. Maybe the various stages, from young, virile, and handsome (his hunting or game face, if you will) to a broken, aged old man, are just manifestations of hos mood at the moment, from alert, vibrant, and on the prowl, to beaten down, dejected, and really depressed. I know that fits nowhere into the various Dracula legends, but it might be a workable explanation. It could also depend on how often and how recently he has fed, except for the sudden aging in "Antique."

nerd4hire

03-10-2008, 01:51 PM

Evilyn

03-10-2008, 03:38 PM

I think referring to Dracula's transformations as a glamor was more an exaggeration on my part to make a point. Nevertheless, I think the implication in what we've seen so far is clear. It requires some act of will for Dracula to transform from old to young.

Interesting...is he doing it for the slayers, or is he doing it for Xander? The idea it's an expression of his mood seems a bit of a stretch, but even so would it be the slayers, who change his mood, or is it Xander?

I think he's doing it for Xander. If it is his mood that swings his transformations, then I think Xander probably makes him full like he was in his prime. Not in a sexual way, but more in a idyllic way. Instead of being the "old guy" that no one thinks is cool anymore, he's sort of like Xander's "cool big brother" and he has to live up to his reputation. So, there for makes himself appear as the hot, young Dracula. Either that, or Drac's got a "straight" crush on Xander.

white avenger

03-10-2008, 03:56 PM

I think referring to Dracula's transformations as a glamor was more an exaggeration on my part to make a point. Nevertheless, I think the implication in what we've seen so far is clear. It requires some act of will for Dracula to transform from old to young.

Interesting...is he doing it for the slayers, or is he doing it for Xander? The idea it's an expression of his mood seems a bit of a stretch, but even so would it be the slayers, who change his mood, or is it Xander?

I think that he would do it for whoever came to the castle, especially as a first impression, which could be the case when answering the door to visitors. It's not just an ego thing, strangers are potential nourishment, and he wouldn't want to scare any away, especially sweet young things of the female variety (or, he might just have the hots for Xander. After all, they did go moon light motorbiking together. He seemed genuinely upset and dejected when Buffy came and rescued him in "Antique.")

CharmedSlayer85

03-10-2008, 11:35 PM

I'm wondering if Xander and Dracula had sex during the time Xander was in Dracula's control. I mean we've seen so much girl on girl action in the Buffyverse but no guy on guy action. I mean when is Andrew gonna finallly come out the closet and hook up with Xander? That should have been the experiment not Buffy and Satsu.

I don't know maybe it's just me but I'm finding this whole storyline of Buffy feeling alone and not connected VERY redudant. I mean I'm still enjoying it, but again all of this is kind of like been there done that throughout Season Six and really through the entire run of the show. And I thought what made "Chosen," such a great ending is now she's connected again, she no longer has the weight of the world on her shoulders cause she can share it with the other slayers. I understand the saying that as a leader "it's lonely at the top," but geesh, I don't know. It's just looking to me that Buffy had sex with Satsu just to feel something, cause she knew Satsu had feelings for her so she took advantage, just like she took advantage of Spike in Season Six.

GATEGOD

03-11-2008, 12:48 AM

If they have the Scythe, can they potentially cancel the spell giving all the other slayers their power and taking it back to just Faith and Buffy. ~~ I'd like that. Buffy/Satsu's relations was the best part of the issue, opens up so many possibilities. The ending was hilarious Xander going to Dracula and calling him Master is priceless!

white avenger

03-11-2008, 05:21 AM

The bad guys having the scythe could very well be a plot to try and reverse the Slayer activation spell. Good point.

As for Andrew and Xander, how would it have been if the girls (maybe Renee and a couple of others) had busted in on Buffy and Satsu, then after the initial sputtering with Willow and Dawn, (plus not having them jump up and get dressed with Xander there watching,) they'd all rushed over to get Xander, and found him in bed with Andrew?

alexa

03-11-2008, 05:34 AM

Well can we think of a hotter guy for Xander to sleep with? ;)

I just have to put this quote somewhere from him, funniest I've heard in ages.

Buffy: This isn't what it looks like!
Xander: Oh thank god it's a dream.
Renee: I don't think it's a dream.
Xander: No, I've had this one before. You're here. They're here. I'm just gonna sit in the corner and wait for Willow to arrive.

sosa lola

03-11-2008, 05:35 AM

Oh, no, I'm glad that never happened :lol: I don't like the Xandrew pairing, now if they found Xander with Spike, that would be hot :D

I can't wait for the Xander/Dracula parts! :) Also the plots sounds interesting.

Allycat

03-11-2008, 06:14 AM

I think it would really suck if the vampires succeeded and reversed the world back to just two Slayer. That would make everything that happened in Season 7 pointless. I doubt they will succeed though, since that would also make Twilight as a villain lose his purpose.

Clem Rocks

03-11-2008, 08:37 AM

You lot are debating that they might be trying to reverse the Slayer spell, when Buffy herself pointed it out that that's probably what they want the scythe for in this issue?

Spike Angelus

03-11-2008, 09:51 AM

Good point Clem Rocks.

Joyce Summers

03-11-2008, 10:18 AM

Well just finished reading my copy. I got it delivered yesterday but had a tired mood on me and so went to bed early without reading it. And now, today I'm an early riser. Figures. Either way this means I've read the issue before 8am. Hehe.

I really liked this one, besides the Buffy/Satsu strangeness. I think that could have been really wiggy but the way comedy was thrown in constant offset any potential wigouty-ness. :). My favorite walk-in line has to be Willow's with her "I think we're under attack....why are you naked in bed with Satsu?"
Poor, poor Buffy. I thought she was going to implode with the French farce of it all. Hehe.

But ooh PantherVamp got like drool all over the scythe. Ew. I do like how Drac's being brought in and how Xander deals with it (As for example 'What? Why are you all looking at me?...Oh crap').

I know the scythe could be used to reverse the every-potential-a-Slayer thing, but now I'm definitely wondering- especially with the Fray issues coming up and such- if it isn't the key to the whole magic destruction thing. I mean if it can distribute so much power it can also take it away right?

And you people stop creeping me out with talk of Xandrew!! Wrong! Wrong! ::runs off in horror:: haha.

Clem Rocks

03-11-2008, 10:50 AM

I was laying in bed last night, thinking of this issue, and i realised something. I think Xander knows more than he's letting on

Xander: For all I know, it's a swarm of bees.

Don't you think it's funny he chooses bees when later on, the vamps turn into bees? Or do you think it's just a coincidence?

Spike Angelus

03-11-2008, 12:01 PM

Clem Rocks

03-11-2008, 12:16 PM

Maybe Xander knows something subconsciously?

I think he might be having premonitions, he also says he's dreamt about Buffy sleeping with Satsu, with him, Renee, Andrew and Dawn there with Willow then arriving.

Lyri

03-11-2008, 12:35 PM

OMFG! Xander's having visions? i can't believe i never picked up on that in this issue! *goes back to look for more clues*

Black Eye Guy

03-11-2008, 12:55 PM

I think he might be having premonitions, he also says he's dreamt about Buffy sleeping with Satsu, with him, Renee, Andrew and Dawn there with Willow then arriving.

Thats not what he said about his dream, his dream was of Buffy in Bed with Satsu and him and Renee were there as was Willow, in a sexy dream!

So when he walked in on Buffy and Satsu he thought oh this is like my dream, and he was saying "I'll just wait till willow gets here to confirm it was a dream!"

Allycat

03-11-2008, 02:47 PM

Joyce Summers

03-11-2008, 02:50 PM

We're in denial of that possibilty! I refuse to even consider it! Haha.

Personally, I just think Xander's been hanging around the Supers too much and has developed an ability of being permenantly uncanny. ;)

Lyri

03-11-2008, 02:57 PM

Why is everyone saying he could be having visions? Are we all just afraid to say it? Xander might be Twilight's inside man! ;)

No, 'casue, see, Xander's not supposed to be the bad guy!! My whole world would turn upside down! Xander's the eternal good guy!!

I'm going to sulk in the corner, now. ;)

sosa lola

03-12-2008, 06:27 AM

Xander with Angel would have been better. They have morh history between them.

I wouldn't mind that. I'm an Angel/Xander fan at well. But I think Xander/Spike works better because they have more in common, and I disagree with you on the "having more history between them", Xander doesn't know Angel as much as he knows Spike. Spike had lived with him two times, they played pool together, they fought side by side when Buffy died, they have more scenes together. The flow more than Xangel IMO.

white avenger

03-12-2008, 06:49 AM

tommy

03-12-2008, 11:02 AM

Oh, I feel like I missed the discussion again. My issue just arrived and I couldn't believe there's already six pages to this thread. Where do you other UK-based people buy your comics online? I've been using Fantastic Realm but this is how long it takes. Looks like you've covered the main points already - I'll just say that I really enjoyed this issue. It has a certain kind of silliness that we haven't seen in Season 8 yet. I guess that comes with a change of writer. Really looking forward to the rest of Wolves At The Gate. Also, a lot easier to follow than the new issue of Angel.

Blondie Bear

03-12-2008, 11:47 AM

It would be quite possible for Xander to have had some sort of trigger implanted during his year long stay with Dracula that was referred to in Antiques. He obviously had some conditioning, since at the end of #12 he refers to Drac as "Master," with a definite expression of subservience. Also, the irony of that happening to him after Season 7's "Triggered Spike" thing. It's too bad Giles and Wood won't be around to see their reaction to that.

I haven't read "Antiques," so I don't know about any conditioning or trigger, but I didn't see subservience in Xander's face at the end of WatG. It looked more like annoyance to me, like, "Dammit, he's STILL got that thrall thing!" Granted, it's difficult to tell from one frame what's going on in a person's head than it is in live-action TV, so I could be wrong.

And it WOULD be hilarious to see what Giles (not so much Wood, cause his thing was all about Spike) would make of a triggered Xander.

Evilyn

03-12-2008, 02:42 PM

Going back a few posts, I can just see the hilariousness that would ensue if Xander did have visions. So many puns about "the sight" and so on. LOL!

I still don't think Xander is the mole, because that would just be VERY WRONG! I've got an inkling that it's gonna be Satsu. Just because she's in love with Buffy, doesn't mean she wouldn't betray her. You know, cuz "sometimes love makes you do the wacky." There's been a long line of hurt and "betrayal" from couples in the 'verse, so I could see it happening.

I don't want it to be Renee, because she and Xander are just too cute. Plus, Xander needs some luvin' so I say leave Renee out of it, let her be the good girl, to Xander's good guy.

Kemy

03-12-2008, 02:46 PM

Typical, I leave for a short while and look what happens lol.

Ugh, right now this is coming off as a gimmicky and convoluted way to sell more comics by the good old "ZOMG YAY LESBIANS" method of titillation of the younger readers.

By the way anyone who laughed at that last sentence go to the corner and hang your head. Anyway I really do not think this would have happened at all in the show and can't really see it being all that believable or in character.

Also, Mr. Gordo was in Buffy's house when it was sucked into the Hellmouth and crushed with all the other houses, he should be buried and mashed under several tonnes of rubble. Its more likely this is a new Mr. Gordo II she picked up from somewhere.

NightBird

03-12-2008, 06:13 PM

Best issue yet, best shock yet.

I don't see why so many of you guys think that this is such a ground shaking event and is going to 'spoil' buffy.

I have no issue with a gay buffy, if anything i'm happy for satsu, i felt so bad for her in the previous issue where she was getting told that feeling street was one way, (buffy changed her mind, lol)

I also don't think that this was done for a cheap shock, if buffy is now bi then its the best way for us to find out, an old school friend of mine came 'out' to me after 4 years of no contact by finding me on Facebook, adding me as a friend and then when i saw the, 'in a realtionship with' bit and it was a guy, i was shocked, not surprised, but shocked, lol.

My point is, that finding out something this big is going to be a shock and in the case of Buffy was meant to be a shock, besides this doesn't change who buffy 'is'.

Buffy is buffy but now she likes girls, i assume that B still likes blokes, who knows.

All i say is YAY FOR SATSU!
YAY FOR SATSU!
YAY FOR SATSU!
YAY FOR SATSU!

CharmedSlayer85

03-12-2008, 06:16 PM

These vampires would have to be INCREDIBLY powerful in order to reverse the spell. To me it just looks like they learned Dracula's tricks from perhaps the same gypsy clan, but the Buffyverse has shown that gypsies aren't as powerful as witches and Willow is like the most powerful witch in the Buffyverse (until they show us otherwise), so it'd definitely be interesting to see how they're going to attempt to reverse the spell. Afterall at this point nobody can challenge Willow. Even Glory had a hard time standing up against Willow and she wasn't even at the peak of her powers yet like she is now, and Glory was a god.

Blondie Bear

03-12-2008, 06:18 PM

Maybe they're just messing with her mind by stealing the Scythe. I'm sure it's no secret that she favors that weapon above all others. Maybe stealing it is a form of psychological warfare.

palabravampiress

03-12-2008, 11:28 PM

Okay... I didn't read all of the posts. I know. Bad Palabra. Naughty, bad Palabra.

But I just read the comic and none of my real life people care and I just needed to come online and talk about it! I was utterly unspoiled, (plus, I missed issues 9 and 10) sop I have a lot to talk about.

First of all... I LOVED Xander in this episode. I pretty much laughed every time he opened his mouth... and some of the times when he didn't.

Second... I'm not sure where Willow's been, but she and Andrew were priceless with their Superman jokes. I am, however, really confused about how and when she started this flying thing.

Third... Batsu was freakin' hilarious. I loved how everyone kept walking in and saying funny lines. Plus, Buffy's performance anxiety was great.

Hilarity aside... I don't know, man. I'm not sold on Batsu. First of all, Satsu is in LOVE with Buffy. In love. True, cinnamon flavored princess charming kisses sort of love, right? So I'm not so sure I like this idea of Buffy knowing that, feeling like she's lacking a connection, jumping into bed with someone who loves her, and then wanting to keep it on the down low. We've been there. We've done that. It was called season 6. I thought we resolved Buffy's Heaaaaven issues. I don't want this to become who Buffy is. I want her to have learned from that experience... not to get into a destructive and repetitive cycle. Let's just hope she treats Satsu better than she treated Spike (and vice versa).

Fourth... Holy Zombie Jesus, did I love these Japanese Dracula-esque guys or did I love them? It's settled: I loved them! Not only were they neat-looking and funny and highly motivated with their sneaky plot to get the scythe, but they were also imminently rootable. Yes, folks, I was actually rooting for them. Seriously. Do you know how hard it is to steal that freakin' scythe? I have been trying to do that in the RPG for months now. I was like, "They got the scythe! Yay! Go kitty, go!" I mean... I know it's bad for the Scoobies. But man, the little villain in me did a dance of joy.

Those are my initial reactions, I laughed - out loud and a lot. I read lines aloud to my hubby and my roommate. I had a blast. Of course, they groaned and said they didn't care. And they told me that I often laugh out loud while reading. But whatever. I had a blast. This comic was hilarious.

I promise I will get around to reading your posts and making intelligent observations later. For now, though, these are my off-the-cuff initial reactions.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-13-2008, 06:30 AM

Second... I'm not sure where Willow's been, but she and Andrew were priceless with their Superman jokes. I am, however, really confused about how and when she started this flying thing.
1. I don't know where she and Kennedy are living, but Andrew was in Italy.
2. Season Six, actually (although she levitated once in Season Five.) They just didn't have the budget for all the fancy effects.

CharmedSlayer85

03-13-2008, 04:57 PM

Yeah they mentioned in Season Six that Willow was flying

Kemy

03-14-2008, 08:57 AM

Yup. When Willow first absorbs a lot of the power she has now because of her going off the deep end in the last three episodes she, according to Anya, can now go "airborne".

So the levitation in season 5 was suddenly boosted to all out flying capability. But of course the season 7 recovery meant no use of magic on that scale, not without going dark, hence not being able to do so until "cured" by the Scythe at the end of the season.

Allycat

03-14-2008, 09:52 AM

Also, since Season 8 takes place more than a year after Season 7, you can always imagine that she fully learned to control this ability during this time.

Clem Rocks

03-14-2008, 10:33 AM

She still goes dark though, she did when fighting Amy in The Long Way Home

Spike Angelus

03-14-2008, 10:40 AM

True, but I think she can control it now, and not go all evil.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-15-2008, 10:11 PM

1. I don't know where she and Kennedy are living, but Andrew was in Italy. I think that it was mentioned on "Angel" thar Willow was in Rio at that time with Kennedy.
Yeah, but everything Andrew said there is now called into question, (we know that at least part of what he told Angel was a lie) so we don't know if that was true or just another misdirect.

Cordelia Chase*

03-16-2008, 06:50 AM

Well!! Everybody knows Im glad that Buffy and Satsu did the nasty!!! I knew it was coming! Well not them doin the do but them hooking up in some way or form

Mortal

03-16-2008, 01:17 PM

what's up with all the people here complaining about buffy getting in on some hot lesbian action??? (well, at least people on the first 3 pages of this thread that i read). that was an awesome scene, and it's not like buf has to be either gay or straight - she could be bi...

awesome issue imo, though dracula kind of sucked in the buffy tv series... also, didn't buffy say in the previous comic that people who fall for her end up dead, or hurt or something? maybe that means satsu will die soon...

Rowan Hawthorn

03-16-2008, 02:51 PM

Okay... I didn't read all of the posts. I know. Bad Palabra. Naughty, bad Palabra.
*brings out large Nerf paddle*

But I just read the comic and none of my real life people care
I feel your pain. On the good side, my brother's attitude towards anything Buffy has validated my long-cherished opinion that he has no taste...

Let's just hope she treats Satsu better than she treated Spike (and vice versa).
It just occurred to me that they've already treated each other better than Spike and Buffy did - before and after their first time "going all the way."

Now... how long that will last may be anybody's guess...

Rowan Hawthorn

03-16-2008, 05:45 PM

It just occurred to me that they've already treated each other better than Spike and Buffy did - before and after their first time "going all the way."

Now... how long that will last may be anybody's guess...

Well, Satsu didn't start out saying, "I always knew the only thing better than BEING a Slayer would be f...." so she's one up on Spike.
Also, Buffy didn't threaten to kill her if she told anyone about it, and didn't punch her in the nose afterwards, so that may make her two or three up on Spike... :lmao:

palabravampiress

03-16-2008, 07:00 PM

Also, Buffy didn't threaten to kill her if she told anyone about it, and didn't punch her in the nose afterwards, so that may make her two or three up on Spike...

Yay for positive character development. lol.

Perhaps we should be worried that we see it as a positive sign that our heroine is not physically abusing and threatening to kill her latest lover.

Rowan Hawthorn

03-16-2008, 07:19 PM

Yay for positive character development. lol.

Perhaps we should be worried that we see it as a positive sign that our heroine is not physically abusing and threatening to kill her latest lover.

<snicker> On the serious side, though, it might at least mean that some of Buffy's emotional damage is healing.

white avenger

03-16-2008, 08:18 PM

Also, Buffy didn't threaten to kill her if she told anyone about it, and didn't punch her in the nose afterwards, so that may make her two or three up on Spike... :lmao:

Poor ol' Spike Just don't get NO respect! No wonder he decided to stay in Los Angeles.

Otaku Mike

03-16-2008, 10:53 PM

I enjoyed this issue very much, all its aspects and storyline. However, I feel like its story was intentionally drawn out to fill up the 24 pages or so. I mean, it seems to me that there is an unusual number of pages just filled up with 3 or 4 panels that are mostly a repeat with continuing dialogue (for instance, the page just after Andrew arrived in Buffy's room and turned on the light, 6 panels to just show the wolf-vamp go all misty and turn to human form in the armory, 3 large panels for Xander going "What?... Oh crap.", and the very last page.
All in all, it looks like 2 or 3 pages could have been saved and put to use to describe other things. I don't know, I feel like this issue is only the prologue of the story arc, but it's taking a quarter of the whole episode. With only 1 issue per month, I just wish that sometimes the story would go faster. Maybe the whole buzz about "the gang goes to Tokyo to fight ubervamps" made me want to see them go to Tokyo in the first issue of the arc and I was disapointed, so it feels like the story is dragging on to me.

Mike

Rowan Hawthorn

03-16-2008, 11:03 PM

Yeah, that's one of the drawbacks to comic form. Andrew greeting Buffy and Satsu as if nothing is out of the ordinary, then stopping while it registers and then wondering "How much Dramamine did I take?" while Xander and Renee look everywhere in the room except the bed; everyone turns to look at Xander: "Why's everyone looking - "; pause; *clicks*; "Aw, crap..."

Using multiple panels is the only way to actually get the effect of the "takes". Unfortunately, it also takes up pages. I wish we could get this in a bi-weekly (well, I really wish we could get this as a TV series, but...)

CharmedSlayer85

03-18-2008, 08:20 AM

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I would really like for them to do something with Dawn, because it just seems as if her character is becoming nothing but baggage. I still feel like Joss made her a giant because he didn't know what else to do with her so he made that storyline up to give her a storyline. Other than that her involvement in this season has been EXTREMELY minimal.

Also I'd like to see more of the Slayers that we got to know in Season 7 like Rona and Vi, where are they? I mean I know we saw them in "The Chains," but geesh...more!!! And where's Chao-Ann? She survived the hellmouth battle. AND BRING BACK CLEM!!!!!!!!

white avenger

03-18-2008, 09:08 AM

Probably the survivors of the hellmouth battles are either assigned to different areas of the world, no doubt with adequate support teams, or they were part of that group Buffy referred to in Issue 1 who weren't active Slayers. For all we know, there might also be more hellmouths than just Cleveland, perhaps in Europe, Asia, or Africa, and they're there.

Clem Rocks

03-18-2008, 10:06 AM

white avenger

03-18-2008, 10:42 AM

Well, she's supposed to be going to Japan with the gang, so maybe she can save them from Godzilla, or Mothra, or Gamara, or Rodan, or one of those other Japanese monsters.

nerd4hire

03-18-2008, 12:50 PM

I'd also like to see more of the Dawn story. In fact I'd like to see the fact she's become a giant matter to the story arc. Right now what I'm wondering is how do you get someone her size to Japan. Is it possible to use her keyness to transport? Do they teleport her? Can Willow do a flying spell, and fly the whole crew on Dawn's back? Do they float her in the hold of a boat like King Kong?

There's something I wonder about expanding the character's of people like Rona and Vi. Being a big Vi fan I'd naturally like to see more of her, but is there a point where that kind of thing becomes a little much?

One of my nit-picks against the new Angel series is it's starting to feel like almost every page there's a new walk-on. At some point don't you want to say "Yeah that's fanfic-y fun, but tell the damned story will you?". What I mean is there's only so much space, and I want to know what's happening in the main arc.

white avenger

03-18-2008, 01:21 PM

If she doesn't go by teleportation she would have to go by ship or swim, because not even a Hercules C-100 military cargo jet could carry her.

Spike Angelus

03-18-2008, 01:40 PM

If she doesn't go by teleportation she would have to go by ship or swim, because not even a Hercules C-100 military cargo jet could carry her.

Don't you mean C-130 Herc? I used to fly on them back in my Air Force days.

Yes, I'm ex-miltary.

CharmedSlayer85

03-19-2008, 03:06 PM

I think they'd probably be teleported to Japan cause that's the only way I can see Dawn getting there or perhaps Willow opens up a portal as we've seen she can do that now. But I'd also like to see someone that can challenge Willow cause right now it does seem like Willow is virtually a goddess. I mean is Twillight more powerful than her? Will it eventually be a battle between Twillight and Willow instead of Buffy and Willow. (Since they can both fly kind of like the final battle in the Matrix or Dragon Ball Z)

And the problem I'm having with the Angel series is it's not as interesting as the Buffy series. All four issues after reading them I'm like with this feeling of WTF? HOwever with Buffy after reading I'm just like damnit I can't wait til next month, Angel I'm just like blah.

Edit:

And according to Wikipedia Season Eight is going to be 40 issues.

Joss Whedon serves as "executive producer" for the series across every issue, giving his other writers notes on characterization, continuity and his overall concept in mind as he would when overseeing Buffy as a television series. Joss has written the first story arc, "The Long Way Home" (#1-4) as well as several one-shot stories (#5, #10, and #11), and is set to write the series fourth (#16-19) and final (#36-40) story arcs himself as well.

Comic and television writer Brian K. Vaughan became the first guest writer on the series, writing the second story arc "No Future for You" (#6-9). While Vaughan was not a "Buffyverse" staff member, he was a fan of both series (particularly the character of Faith) and Joss Whedon himself was a fan of Vaughan's Marvel Comics series Runaways, on which he served as writer during the period Vaughan wrote "No Future for You."

Former Buffy and Angel writer Drew Goddard writes the series' third arc, "Wolves at the Gate." Goddard first became a Buffy writer in its final season, starting with the episode "Selfless" and finishing with the Angel episode "The Girl in Question", which itself obliquely hints at the life of Buffy post-Season Seven. Goddard went onto become the a writer of the movie Cloverfield and acclaimed American dramas Lost and Alias (all working alongside producer J. J. Abrams) whilst also penning the story "Antique" for canonical Buffy comic book Tales of the Vampires, which he goes onto reference in "Wolves at the Gate".

Film, comics and television writer-producer Jeph Loeb is set to write issue #20 of the series. Loeb had previously been involved with Joss in the conception of Buffy the Animated Series, which never came to be. Following Loeb are Buffyverse alumni Jane Espenson, Doug Petrie, Drew Greenberg, Jim Krueger and Steven S. DeKnight who between them are set to tell the story between issues #21 and #29. One set of issues between those writers will serve to comprise one story arc told from a number of different perspectives. Issue #29 will be written by an as-yet unannounced writer, before Brad Meltzer, author of several New York Times best-selling books and later both Identity Crisis and Justice League of America for DC Comics is set to write the penultimate story arc of Season Eight, issues #31-35. Whedon himself resumes authorship for the final four issues of the series, bringing Season Eight to an end.

So basically we got another 3 years and 4 months of Season Eight

Kemy

03-19-2008, 03:12 PM

A C-5 "Galaxy" cargo carrier aircraft is capable of carrying enormous loads, large than most small homes inside over great distances, as big as Dawn is she could still fit inside one of those with room to move around.

But, there aren't that many of them and something that big is not only going to be noticed but monitored, the Slayer Army probably couldn't charter one, so I'm guessing a transportation spell, but its going to have to be a pretty powerful one to shift that much mass. No offense to Dawn.

nerd4hire

03-19-2008, 04:33 PM

I think it would be kind of neat if Willow could tap into Dawn's keyness in some way, and transport the whole crew to Japan through her. It would give Dawn a reason for being there, because really, why do they even need her? Also Dawn becomes a little more interesting.

Edit:

Keanoite agrees: Yeah I agree...Dawn is like the appendix of the scoobies...pointless and annoying

Exept that isn't precisely what I said. :) I like Dawn. I want them to make her matter in Season 8.

Keanoite

03-19-2008, 04:36 PM

I think it would be kind of neat if Willow could tap into Dawn's keyness in some way, and transport the whole crew to Japan through her. It would give Dawn a reason for being there, because really, why do they even need her? Also Dawn becomes a little more interesting.

Edit:

Exept that isn't what I said. :) I like Dawn. I want them to make her matter in Season 8.

Ok I admit that I am really not Dawn's biggest fan but I genuinely agree with what you said. Dawn is literally just sitting around doing nothing. Her character needs a point stat!

TabulaRasa

03-19-2008, 05:06 PM

I loved Dawn in season 7 so I want to continue to love her, and yes giving her a real reason to be there would be great..but...Her not being anything more than a girl is also good because it's what the rest of us are. Normal. Don't get me wrong, I want to see something neat happen with Dawn, but she is ok to me being there. Maybe being the junior watcher she was on the show would be a good position for her. I just wish she could get back to size so she can start doing that job.

palabravampiress

03-19-2008, 08:51 PM

Right now, I'm liking having Dawn as comic relief. I agree that she should eventually become significant to the main arc, but that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the inherent comedy of Dawn-as-a-giant. I like it. I'm willing to stick it out a bit longer before I start clamoring for something more significant.

Sidenote: I finally stole the freakin' scythe! That's right, Japanese Dracula vamps! Eat your hearts out! Indra didn't have to shapeshift or anything. She just had a good, old fashioned, knock-out, drag-out sword fight.

Clem Rocks

03-20-2008, 07:56 PM

Maybe Willow has a magic network to the Slayer bases they she can teleport anyone to easily, Scott Allie has just stated in an interview that there are Slayer bases in "San Francisco, Chicago, Tuscany, Scotland, Tokyo, New York, and Cleveland."

RogueHunter

03-26-2008, 09:06 PM

Dawn desperately needs a storyline. As Xander so eloquently pointed out in "potential" she is basically the female Xander, which is essentially pointless. She needs to find her own exceptionalness other than following in the Summers girl sluttiness. (Even Joyce did Giles on the patrol car.)

palabravampiress

03-26-2008, 09:45 PM

^ Does doing Giles on a police car actually make Joyce "slutty?" If so, sign me up! I mean... err... nevermind.

Anywho... Am I seriously the only one who's digging the funny? I mean, really... I loved it when Dawn splashed Xander, when she slept in the barn, when she spoke almost amorously to her socks... etc. Dawn's really funny! She's not as funny as Xander, but almost!

RogueHunter

03-26-2008, 10:08 PM

Summers girls are all slutty in a good way.

alexa

03-26-2008, 10:52 PM

I don't think anyone of them could be considered 'sluts' good way or bad ;) If you think so you must live in a much smaller world then me :p

RogueHunter

03-26-2008, 11:21 PM

Lets define slutty as sex in a casual, non committed sort of way. Keep in mind I'm not calling them like super mega sluts. I don't mean it to be derogatory since I would fall into that category myself, but its just the reality, that behaviors should carry some sort of consequence and you don't just get a pass, otherwise there's no reason not to engage in the behavior.

palabravampiress

03-26-2008, 11:23 PM

That comment is sooo overshadowing poor Dawnie and her gigantism.

Now I'm thinking about how sad it is that Giles is not real, so I can not sign up for that list. That, and I'm waaaay too chicken to do it on a cop car. Not even *in* a cop car. Not even in or on a cop car with my hubby instead of with Giles. It all boils down to one thing: I don't wanna be arrested! That's just asking to be arrested, man, and who needs that? Joyce and Giles were way more brave than I am. Then again, they had band candy to make them bold.

And now... my Giles centric mind is getting back to Wolves at the Gate to ask... when do you think we'll see Giles again? I sorta hate this Giles/Buffy parting of ways thing. I loved their relationship on the show. I'm missing my father/daughter bonding, man. I also missed the explanation of the rift. *Why* aren't they on speaking terms? Is this still over the him trying to kill Spike thing, or did I miss something while reading the comics?

(I didn't say my mind would wander too far from Giles, now did I?)

crabby patty

03-28-2008, 01:12 PM

I think this is one of the best issues I have read so far, I love xander and renee getting it together it was done very sweetly. I am loving the new vamps and even Dracula appearing at the end.

But the Buffy and Satsu thing I am not sure of, it was handled well but I just dont see Buffy being gay, also they have done the gay thing with Willow. Hope it was just a one off which then makes me feel sorry for Satsu as she obviously has feelings for Buffy.

Why do they make Buffy sleep with everyone - shes going to get a name for herself!!!!!!! ;)

palabravampiress

03-30-2008, 01:45 PM

Why do they make Buffy sleep with everyone - shes going to get a name for herself!!!!!!! ;)

I actually have a theory about this. I think it's about "decriminalizing" sex for female heroines. Buffy is supposed to be sort of ironic and push traditional gender roles at the same time, right? I mean, she's the traditional blonde high school student/co-ed running from the big bad in the horror movie, but the twist is that she turns around and takes out a big can of girl power whupass on the bad guy. Well, keep playing with that notion. A commonly remarked upon horror movie staple is that the "slutty" girl is killed first and that the virginal girl is the one who eventually prevails/is saved. It's an incredibly sexist notion -- that supports the sexual double standard (and goes back to fairy tales, too, by the way). But Buffy can get her groove on AND still be the heroine. She is not defined by her sex life; she is defined by her calling as a world-saving, butt-kicking heroine. In the Buffyverse, a woman's fulfillment of her sexual urges does not have to be punished by death or loss to the big bad.

Keanoite

03-30-2008, 03:11 PM

I actually have a theory about this. I think it's about "decriminalizing" sex for female heroines. Buffy is supposed to be sort of ironic and push traditional gender roles at the same time, right? I mean, she's the traditional blonde high school student/co-ed running from the big bad in the horror movie, but the twist is that she turns around and takes out a big can of girl power whupass on the bad guy. Well, keep playing with that notion. A commonly remarked upon horror movie staple is that the "slutty" girl is killed first and that the virginal girl is the one who eventually prevails/is saved. It's an incredibly sexist notion -- that supports the sexual double standard (and goes back to fairy tales, too, by the way). But Buffy can get her groove on AND still be the heroine. She is not defined by her sex life; she is defined by her calling as a world-saving, butt-kicking heroine. In the Buffyverse, a woman's fulfillment of her sexual urges does not have to be punished by death or loss to the big bad.

I agree about the theory that they are trying to decriminalize sex for female heroines, however while Buffy never died becuase of her sexcapades she was punished for it. I mean the curse was pretty frickin cruel. Parker can maybe be chalked up to college experience but again she was forced to learn a harsh lesson as a consequence of sex and well her relationship with Spike speaks for itself. 3 out of her 5 sexual partners have resulted in Buffy being punished in some way. I find that a little disturbing.

Joyce Summers

03-30-2008, 03:37 PM

Orignally posted by Palabravampiress
Now I'm thinking about how sad it is that Giles is not real, so I can not sign up for that list. That, and I'm waaaay too chicken to do it on a cop car. Not even *in* a cop car. Not even in or on a cop car with my hubby instead of with Giles.

I agree on the whole sometimes-you-have-to-face-reality-as-the-Giles-fantasy-temporarily-shatters. It's a bad, bad thing but eventually I retreat back to the imaginary bubble. :) Haha. As for the being-too-chicken..I *SO* won't tell you what I was like as a teenager. ::runs off in shame/embarrassment/something else::

Originally posted by Keanoite
I agree about the theory that they are trying to decriminalize sex for female heroines, however while Buffy never died becuase of her sexcapades she was punished for it. I mean the curse was pretty frickin cruel. Parker can maybe be chalked up to college experience but again she was forced to learn a harsh lesson as a consequence of sex and well her relationship with Spike speaks for itself. 3 out of her 5 sexual partners have resulted in Buffy being punished in some way. I find that a little disturbing.

It is definitely disturbing but also realistic. Yeah, sometimes everything does work out (As seen with Willow/Oz, Willow/Tara, Xander/Anya...I'm counting out the eventual ending here as they were all successful long term relationships) but a lot of the time in reality sex leads to badness. I think since Buffy is the heroine and so technically 'got the luckiest/best part of everything' with being the superhero with the powers and the confidence etc she was the one they could use as 'look how bad sexual relationships can go' example as doing to let's say Willow, would have been too much. 'She's shy, awkward, classed as a geek *and* her first time left her dumped and alone?'. Unfortunately this means Buffy is doomed to be cookie dough for a very long time.

Keanoite

03-30-2008, 04:03 PM

It is definitely disturbing but also realistic. Yeah, sometimes everything does work out (As seen with Willow/Oz, Willow/Tara, Xander/Anya...I'm counting out the eventual ending here as they were all successful long term relationships) but a lot of the time in reality sex leads to badness. I think since Buffy is the heroine and so technically 'got the luckiest/best part of everything' with being the superhero with the powers and the confidence etc she was the one they could use as 'look how bad sexual relationships can go' example as doing to let's say Willow, would have been too much. 'She's shy, awkward, classed as a geek *and* her first time left her dumped and alone?'. Unfortunately this means Buffy is doomed to be cookie dough for a very long time.

Maybe it would have made for a lesser show but I think Buffy always being punished for having sex sends out a very dangerous mixed message. Buffy was supposed to go against old clichés, I can't help but find the fact that she nearly always suffers huge cosequences when she has sex disappionting. It contradicts the shows message. I'm not saying she has to settle down and raise a family but let the girl get some without her whole world (and sometimes THE world) crashing down around her.