Harmony and Good

[RuhiWarrior19]

I don't buy this whole penitence and repentance thing anymore. If Angel and Spike are somehow transformed by their guilt because of their souls, but they felt fine about being uber-evil before, how is it that Harmony is able to live a pretty un-evil life even without a soul? I understand in the end she violates their trust, but still . . .

[Blondie Bear]

I have a theory! But I won't sing it. I think that when a person is turned, a certain amount of humanity is retained. I think Spike and Harmony kept quite a bit. Hence Spike's self-understanding and knowledge that in order to become a better person, he had to get a soul. Hence Harmony's ability to--mostly--live without hurting anybody. And when she did hurt people, she felt that it was for a completely justifiable reason, not because it was fun. I think the reason she didn't run around on a rampage was only partly because she was afraid Angel would kill her. Part of it was because she was just so inept at being evil, but I think part of it was because she kept some vestige of humanity.

[RuhiWarrior19]

Could it have to do with how much humanity they had before they were turned?

I was also thinking, if a certain elements of personality is genetic and biological, and in a certain individual the biological aspects are teh more Good aspects it could effect how they act after they lose their soul?

[palabravampiress]

In life, Harmony's major objective was to be liked by others. In un-life, it is the same. Harmony sometimes gives into her evil urges, but she does struggle with them. She struggles because she doesn't like the consequences of her actions. Those who go around killing and maiming and inflicting mental and physical torture of all kinds don't tend to be very popular. In fact, people generally want to kill, maim, and torture them right back. Given her desire to be well liked and her general ineptitude, it really doesn't make much sense for Harmony to be evil when she can be much happier (and much less dusty) following the rules and working for Angel.

[thegifting]

Given her desire to be well liked and her general ineptitude, it really doesn't make much sense for Harmony to be evil when she can be much happier (and much less dusty) following the rules and working for Angel.

Exactly. She follows the rules that Angel has laid out, and they're strict. Also, being evil is essentially a process of obtaining as many of your desires as possible, and she's got a great job that keeps her in stock of unicorn figurines.

And OP- what do you mean about Angel & Spike "feeling fine about being uber-evil before"? Are you asking why they're stellar at evil and she sucks? Maybe (Read: This is the reason) because she was turned by some retard vampire (and is kinda retarded herself). Angel and Spike are the work of The Master, and if you need further proof of it making a difference look at Darla and Drusilla- it's in the blood.

[Hello Cutie]

I agree with what Blondie Bear said, but also want to add, it was a case of 'fitting in' as well. At high school, Harmony had her group that she fit into... she had her 'place' in the 'world' (the world being sunnydale high, cuz I doubt her imagination drifted far beyond school).

And like any popular person with a following at school, when it ends, you struggle to find where you fit in- you go from being someone to no-one... for Harmony, she had the added problem of being a vampire on top.. she tried to be a big bad 'goff' style vamp, and it didn't work, she tried to be the sex-kitten vamp (with Spike) and it didn't work, and so off she went to LA (just like Cordy, who was trying to find where she fitted in the world, for similar reasons)... and I think that she found her place, being a kinda un-evil vamp... I mean, she always references wanting to drink human blood, but she's capable of not doing it, in accordance to 'fitting in' with her 'place' in the 'world' (W&H), which is what she wants more than anything.... I mean look at the episode in season 5 (the name escapes me, sorry) where none of the other girls at work talk to her... thats a perfect example of her trying to fit in, make friends, be popular and basically replicate her high school status- thats her mission in life, as opposed to Angelus/Spike's of death, havoc and mayhem.

[Fake Shemp]

i think Harm is a follower... you know its true.

[TheHeartist]

We've already seen that not all demons are truly evil, and if we pay close attention to the explanation of how a vampire is made in the Buffyverse, and what a vampire actually is, it's half human, half demon, essentially. Angel and Spike are both descended from the Master, a vicious sod, hence their evil streaks. But the human in them would balance that out. Liam was a spiteful lout who hated his father, mix that with a demon, no wonder Angelus was the result. William was a softed hearted socially inept poet before he became Spike, the only real motive for him to want to do evil was to get back at all the people who really made him feel like a fool as a mortal, as well as hating himself for what he used to be. As a vampire, William realised he suddenly had the tools to make a name for himself.

Which leads my point back to Harmony. Kinda useless in life, she was a docile relatively harmless person with a cruel streak as most teenage airheads have. Mixing that with a demon, and you get Harmony, kinda useless still, but her cruel streak now directed towards nefarious ends rather than picking on the 'uncool' people (however unfocused and demented that may be.) This doesn't stop the fact that she is still KINDA USELESS, and was bitten by some no name vamp with possibly inferior vampiric genetic stock (remember, The Master was of the Order of Aueralius (sp?) kind of the vampiric royal family) Hence, Harmony being relatively un-evil.

[white avenger]

A major factor in Harmony's goodness was fear. She knew, once Angel took over Wolfram and Hart, that if she fell off the wagon and started hunting humans again, she would be dust before the next moonrise. Even before that, she knew that he was death on hunting vampires, so she got a job with the one employer in the city who would probably supply their blood drinking employees with free blood as part of their employee benefits.

Certainly she told Angel when he got there that she only drank pig's blood, but that was probably pure self preservation. Either that, or vampires often drank animal blood when they were trying to not call attention to themselves.

Angel and Spike both regretted the pain and fear that they had formerly caused. If nothing else, their souls gave them a conscience for their past sins to get on. Harmony didn't regret anything she had ever done, she just no longer did it out of a sense of self preservation.

[Kana]

What got me was Harmony at the end and her conversation with Angel. He thought Harmony would betray him because she has no soul but she argues that she betrayed him because of the way he treated for the past year. She makes a fatal error in her argument because as many have said already she isn't taking responsibility for her actions. This is like what we see in Harm's Way, she blames other people for her actions and tries to cover her tracks.

In the end she blames Angel without having any regards to whether she herself should fight the good fight. If she had said to Angel she doesn't trust his plan and does think it's morally right, that's different but she doesn't. What's ambiguous is that we're not sure if she would have done the exact same thing with a soul.

[eunsoma]

Personally, I don't know how much becoming a vamp really changed Harmony. I think in life she was kinda selfish and spoilt, and in death she was the same. I really don't think she was 'evil' though, even as a vampire. I mean, yes, she did have the killer impulses, but that was part of her nature as a vampire. She looked like she'd be one to bitch and backstab, even betray while she was a human, and I think that that quality stayed with her in death. The thing about not killing for a long time was all about her fears of Angel killing her. I think that if she had been working for an evil boss, she would have been a little evil (still though, she was never good at it), but since she was working for Angel and his gang, she tried hard to be a good girl, and to be accepted by the gang.

[LadyLavinia]

What got me was Harmony at the end and her conversation with Angel. He thought Harmony would betray him because she has no soul but she argues that she betrayed him because of the way he treated for the past year. She makes a fatal error in her argument because as many have said already she isn't taking responsibility for her actions. This is like what we see in Harm's Way, she blames other people for her actions and tries to cover her tracks.

In the end she blames Angel without having any regards to whether she herself should fight the good fight. If she had said to Angel she doesn't trust his plan and does think it's morally right, that's different but she doesn't. What's ambiguous is that we're not sure if she would have done the exact same thing with a soul.


With or without a soul, Harmony has been pretty consistent in her personality. I find Angel’s claim that she betrayed him because she lacked a soul rather ludicrous. One, his plans for battling Wolfram and Hart struck me as extremely questionable. Two, Harmony has proven that she is quite capable of betraying others for her own self-preservation when she was a human being.



We've already seen that not all demons are truly evil, and if we pay close attention to the explanation of how a vampire is made in the Buffyverse, and what a vampire actually is, it's half human, half demon, essentially. Angel and Spike are both descended from the Master, a vicious sod, hence their evil streaks. But the human in them would balance that out.


How? Being human does not prevent one from being evil. I doubt very much that being human would balance out the demon in an individual. And look at some of the human characters in Buffyverse who were pretty evil.