Buffy's Scythe (Spoilers for Issue #12)

[white avenger]

It seems to me that a weapon as valuable and powerful as the Scythe would have been stored in a much more secure place than the common weapons armory. If it were so important to Buffy, as it obviously was, it would more likely be kept in her private quarters where she could keep a very close eye on it, most likely with some sort of mystic seal around it that only she or a few very trusted others would have access to. Of course, if that was the case, this whole arc would have been impossible.

On the same note, it seems rather reckless to take it out on common patrols, where it could be lost if anything should happen to Buffy and her crew. I would keep it safe in that aforementioned mystically sealed vault until it was really needed. Up to this point in Season 8, Buffy hasn't used it for anything that a common axe or a stake couldn't have accomplished just as well.

[Allycat]

I had to think about this for a while, but I've come up with some theories. Not the best ones, I admit, but it's a start.

I think that the Scoobies figured none of their enemies knew how the the Slayer Army was created. Nobody except for the Scoobies and Sunnydale-Slayers knew that the Scythe was involved in the spell. Any enemy looking to undo the creation of the Slayers has no idea that the answer is in the Scythe, unless somebody who knows about it has talked. (Which make you wonder! Does this mean the inside man is from Sunnydale?) Anyway, I don't think that there's any reason of the Scoobies to assume the Scythe could be a potential target for attacks. Of course, they could still have decided to lock it up just in case. But we've heard Buffy say that she feels the weapon belongs to her: to the Slayer. It seems to me she fights better with it than with any other weapon, which is reason enough to continue to use it. And if you decide to use it, you might as well use it all the time, because only using it on special occasions might draw attention to it.

That the Scythe wasn't in some kind of special vault when not used isn't too surprising really. From what we saw of the armoury, it looked pretty strong. Not something you can easily slip into. (Unless you're fog.) The fact that it's in the middle of Slayer Central... well, what more protection could you possibly give it? Perhaps it was naïvety or arrogance on the part of Buffy and the Slayers to think that it would be safe, but I can imagine them making that assumption.

[goldenboy]

What happens if the scythe is actually destroyed? Does that undo Willow's spell? Can you "undo" a Slayer magically?

[Allycat]

Every action has an equal and opposing reaction.

In other words, if there's a spell that can give thousands of girls Slayer-abilities... there's probably also a spell that can take away said abilities away.

I don't think that destroying the Scythe will undo the Slayer-spell. I see the Scythe more as a catalyst for Willow's spell than an actual component. Also, I would reason that the more powerful a spell is, the more powerful the catalyst. This might be the reason that the vampires also need the Scythe for their reverse-spell.

[goldenboy]

I don't pay enough attention to exposition, lol. Slayer mythology, the internal logic of magic within the Buffyverse, etc.

As we stand now, are infant Slayers continously being born? Was any kind of Slayer line of progression destroyed by Willow's spell? Is there such a thing as a Potential anymore?

[nerd4hire]

Goldenboy; Those are all questions I hope they answer soon too.

Every action has an equal and opposing reaction.

In other words, if there's a spell that can give thousands of girls Slayer-abilities... there's probably also a spell that can take away said abilities away.

I don't think that destroying the Scythe will undo the Slayer-spell. I see the Scythe more as a catalyst for Willow's spell than an actual component. Also, I would reason that the more powerful a spell is, the more powerful the catalyst. This might be the reason that the vampires also need the Scythe for their reverse-spell.

I had the debate of all debates on that one, one time. There are different opinions on it. Near as I remember the three opinions went like this.

1. The Scythe itself is the repository of the power like a battery. Willow does a spell. There's no complexity. [Edited for Allycat's Karma comment]

2. In Get It Done Anya says transferring energy requires "a catalyst, a conduit". One must necessarily make a distinction between the 2 parts according to the rules of Wicca (no independent source was ever produced for that, in spite of repeated requests). The scythe stores the power. Willow was supposed to be the catalyst, and I forget what was supposed to be the conduit. The ether, I guess.

3. Willow says magic works according to the rules of science. In science a catalyst is something which creates an energetic reaction, yet does not itself change. A conduit in the Buffyverse can be something through which energy (or information) passes. The energy comes from an external force. In this case the energy source was most likely, what the Shadow Men describe as "the heart of the Demon". The entire process is inter-connected in a single machine of inter-connected parts, like a telephone - Heart, Scythe, Willow. The Scythe would be the catalyst. It would also be a conduit at the first stage of the process. Willow would have to be seen as conduit. She changes during the process so by scientific definition she could not be the catalyst.

I suppose you could make a point for the idea Willow does not change as a result of the catalytic process, but rather the energy transference, so perhaps she could be seen as both catalyst, and conduit as well.

I can't remember why any of this matters. :)

[Rowan Hawthorn]

I can't remember why any of this matters. :)

Because it beats hell out of another interminable 'shipper thread?? :lmao:

[white avenger]

Because it beats hell out of another interminable 'shipper thread?? :lmao:

As much as I love a good 'ship debate, they DO get to be a bit much after awhile.

[Allycat]

The discussion you mention is interesting N4H, but probably better left for a different thread. I'll try not to diverge and go into exactly what the Scythe was in the spell, but I'll try to focus on what effect its function would have on the potential of reversing the spell.

1. The Scythe itself is the repository of the power like a battery.
In this scenario, the power has now been spread out and is no longer in the Scythe. Destroying it should have no effect on the spell, cause it is "empty". If you want to reverse the spell, you might need it as a place to store the Slayer power. Although, I imagine that perhaps you could also use a different magical artefact as a battery (provided it's "large" enough).

2. The Scythe as a means of accessing the power.
In this scenario, we assume that the power came from an outside source and that the only way for Willow to access it was through the Scythe. Again, this there is no indication that in this scenario, the destruction of the Scythe leads to the spell being reversed. After all, the spell is done and finished. Also, if you plan to reverse the spell, you might need the Scythe if you want to put the Slayer power back into its original source (presumable the demon heart). You could argue that as a conduit the Scythe can only be connected to the source of the Slayer Power, in which case the Scythe is the only possible conduit for putting the power back where it came from. But possibly you could also put the power into some other container, in which case you could also use a different conduit to put it in there.

3. The Scythe as a means of converting the energy.
Alternatively, it is possible that the energy needed to activate all the Slayers came in a different form than one that Willow could use. She may have needed it to convert the energy. This scenario is pretty much the same as the above. The Scythe's destruction doesn't mean the spell's reversal. If you want to reverse the spell, it is highly likely that the Scythe is the only artefact capable of converting the Slayer power into a form of energy you're able to manipulate and to store. There might be others too.

4. The Scythe as a distributor.
A fourth and kind of different option is one I thought up myself. We know that the Scythe is closely linked to all the Slayers (and Potentials). What if Willow needed the Scythe, because it was the only thing capable of spreading out the Slayer power to girls around the world. It was the thing that located the potentials and send them the power that Willow channelled from within. In this scenario, the Scythe is absolutely needed for the reversal of the spell, because otherwise it might be impossible to locate all the Slayers around the world. We know that conventional magic is able to locate potentials (and Slayers), but we also know that it fails sometimes; Buffy wasn't found until after she was called. Once again, I see no reason to think that destroying the Scythe means reversing the spell.


All-in-all, I'm wondering why the Scoobies don't destroy the Scythe themselves. If it's doesn't lead to the reversal of the spell and if in fact the reversal of the spell is only possible with the Scythe, to keep it around is a liability.

[Kemy]

Since it seems that being a Potential is a biological difference from being a normaly Human, giving even them an advantage physically over other Humans, then becoming a Slayer is the final biological trigger to making the full change.

Potentiality seems to occur as a pubescent change, so even pre-pubescent Potential will still become one in the next few years, several probably have since the spell was cast, but because they weren't at the time, they aren't Slayers. But a small stock of Potentials now exists.

If being a Slayer means a permanent change on the molecular or physical level, altering cells, then it might not be reversible, or if it is, at great cost to the host of the essence.

Breaking the Scythe may not turn the Army back, or even slow them down. But what it will accomplish is making sure the spell can never be cast again. As each Slayer dies the new Potentials will be called, but acting now while they are very few Potentials, reduces the number of Slayers that remain, culling the Army to a small fraction of its current size.

And takes away a powerful weapon capable of killing pure Demons, a definite asset against some of the worst nasties out there. And a lot of pure Demons were shown in the final fight in Fray.