3/15/08 - 3/22/08 Episode Discussion: Dead Man's Party

[SpikedBuffy]

Episode title: Dead Man's Party
Season: three

*You may also feel free to dicuss season three's premiere episode Anne. I opened up the thread from a long time ago.

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This is not one of my favorite episodes. The only reason I watch it is because of Oz. He's so great. Making fun of Giles' cat.

And the whole party descriptions are great too!

[Cangel]

It was so funny when Giles tried to call Buffy's house and these (kinda stoned-looking) guys answered the phone, lol.
And in general, this episode had some great scenes, especially how everyone was dealing with Buffy being back, everyone was just so awkward.
I liked this episode better than the season premiere, however, it's not one of my favourites.

[UlaGan]

OH, I loved the cat - Oz scene, and the all dialogues related, but in general, I don't have any strong feelings towards it either positive or nefative.

[Joyce Summers]

One of my favorite Giles lines was in this episode.

Giles: [As Joyce] Do you like my mask? Isn't it pretty? It raises the dead! [As himself] Americans.

This was one of my favorite episodes of season 3. It had a serious message in the series to it, but it was just a fun episode as well. And did anyone catch Jonathon in the background beating a zombie with Devon's guitar whilst Oz and Joyce are dragging it to the door? He just looks so cute and funny- and I'm sure the guitar is bigger than him! Haha.

And Snyder made me laugh a lot in this episode with his constant mentioning of 'I'm sorry, another tingle moment'. Especially when he replies to Giles saying 'I have grounds, I have precedent. And a tingly sort of feeling...'

And did Pat drive anyone else COMPLETELY INSANE? I know that was what she was meant to do, but seriously the woman just made me want to back away three paces. And what was with the clothes? She was basically having a love affair with pastels.

I did love Xander's Zombie-Welcome-the-world-of-Slaying Commentary for Joyce.

Joyce: What do we do if they get in?
Xander: I kinda think we die!
...
Xander: [To Joyce, who nods in understanding as he talks] Now, when scary things get scared? Not good.

And I just liked the fact that everyone chipped in with fighting the zombies; it was definitely a group effort. We had:

Buffy (duh)
Xander
Cordelia
Willow
Oz
Joyce
Jonathon
Devon
Giles (Though most of his was kinda when he was trying to back to his car, hehe. Speaking of which- hotwiring? Giles!)

I liked the argument too. Got out a lot of what we knew everyone was feeling under the surface whilst retaining the much needed humor. Loved Cordy being in Buffy's shoes. Insensitve much? Haha. And Joyce's 'You really put me through the ringer Buffy. I mean it. And I've had Schnapps'. Why Schnapps was relevant I do not know. Haha.

Also, a great Oz line:

It looks dead. Smells dead. And yet it's moving around. That's interesting.

Also, this episode brought in the well known theory of 'The Gathering, The Shindig and The Hootenanny'

[Eloise]

I haven't watched this episode in a while, so I may be a bit vague. I didn't mind this episode, but I definately can't say it's one of my favourites.

Yes, I loved the cat, and the Oz scene was funny. Haha, yes, that was funny with Jonathan with the guitar. And the guitar definately did seem big compared to him!

Oh, yup, Pat DEFINATELY drove me insane! But, yeah, that's basically the point of her character. Had to feel sorry for Joyce when she died, though.

Yes, Joyce, I agree with what you've said about the argument; it was funny, but at the same time showing how everyone felt. Hehe, I like that Oz line.

Hm, I just realised I've basically talked about the same stuff as everyone else, but I can't think of anything else that really struck me about the episode. I enjoyed it, but like I said, it's not a favourite.

[IdiotJed]

It was so funny when Giles tried to call Buffy's house and these (kinda stoned-looking) guys answered the phone, lol.
And in general, this episode had some great scenes, especially how everyone was dealing with Buffy being back, everyone was just so awkward.
I liked this episode better than the season premiere, however, it's not one of my favourites.

"How may I rock you?" lol Loved it when that guy bit it in the end.

The episode basically set everyone right with everyone.

[Joyce Summers]

Yeah it did. I know that in the original season 3 layout they planned for the group's issues with one another to last several episodes as it's own storyline but they realized they didn't have the time and so concentrated it all into DMP and had them all blow in a big argument instead. Which I think is much better. Having those kinds 'off' issues for more than one episode could have had the potential to drag.

[Nabila]

I found this episode amusing with some really funny parts as well. The funniest to me being, the remarkthat Giles made which Joyce Summers has mentioned. Oh and also Cordy putting herself in Buffy's shoes, and Buffy telling Cordy to "get out of my shoes."

I also thought that this episode has a good example of the wrong concept of friendship. For me, Xander and Pat illustrate this the most.

Pat was just a new acquaintance of Joyce, and yet she seems to have considered herself a close friend, and proceeded to abuse that title she bestowed upon herself. I was very annoyed with the way she spoke to Buffy, and all the innuendos that Buffy is not a good daughter, when she had absolutely no idea what the real situation was between Buffy and Joyce. I don't think Joyce told Pat that Buffy is a vampire slayer when she herself could not deal with it.

And dear Xander at the peak of his insecurity which really made him obnoxious in these early years. I'm not bashing Xander, I like the guy but this is the way he was. As far as friendship is concerned, he really just abuses the title of friend as well. He had no right to jump into the argument that Joyce and Buffy were having at the party. He was posing as a defender for Joyce and Willow when he just blatantly lied in Willow's name at a crucial time in Buffy's life. He did that without considering the consequences it would have for Willow and Buffy's friendship.

And as far as Joyce is concerned,well, she's Buffy's mother, not his. It was their fight, not his. Did he wish to score future points with Buffy by showing off his concern for Joyce? But of course since Joyce made it public, maybe Xander felt he should contribute. What he contributed was more humiliation for the already confused Buffy.

I like this episode for that because it made me think of friendships, in general, and what limitations should we have or should there be any. Did Buffy really owe them an explanation while she was away and trying to make sense of it all herself? So far, I'm still convinced that if you are a true friend, you will wait and let your friend deal with her issues in private. If you're really close then that friend would know you will be there when that friend is ready to share.

Okay I'm done.:whistle:

[Kemy]

Well zombies, and a zombie Cat in particular, can't have a supernatural show without good old zombies.

More of Joyce's social life, ending in the typical fashion of course, and the house getting trashed again.

Everyone just inviting themselves into Buffy's home and having a great time not even knowing who she was, much less caring.

And Buffy breaking down after everyone she thought she could count on bashing her in front of half the neighbourhood, and when she can't cope and tries to leave again, they have yet another go at her.

Felt so sorry for her this episode, the others were acting like real...well I can't use the word without getting a caution.

[Joyce Summers]

Originally posted by Nabila
I also thought that this episode has a good example of the wrong concept of friendship. For me, Xander and Pat illustrate this the most.

Pat was just a new acquaintance of Joyce, and yet she seems to have considered herself a close friend, and proceeded to abuse that title she bestowed upon herself. I was very annoyed with the way she spoke to Buffy, and all the innuendos that Buffy is not a good daughter, when she had absolutely no idea what the real situation was between Buffy and Joyce. I don't think Joyce told Pat that Buffy is a vampire slayer when she herself could not deal with it.

And dear Xander at the peak of his insecurity which really made him obnoxious in these early years. I'm not bashing Xander, I like the guy but this is the way he was. As far as friendship is concerned, he really just abuses the title of friend as well. He had no right to jump into the argument that Joyce and Buffy were having at the party. He was posing as a defender for Joyce and Willow when he just blatantly lied in Willow's name at a crucial time in Buffy's life. He did that without considering the consequences it would have for Willow and Buffy's friendship.

And as far as Joyce is concerned,well, she's Buffy's mother, not his. It was their fight, not his. Did he wish to score future points with Buffy by showing off his concern for Joyce? But of course since Joyce made it public, maybe Xander felt he should contribute. What he contributed was more humiliation for the already confused Buffy.

I totally agree with everything you said about Pat. The woman was totally invasive. My Mom used to have a friend like that- except this friend was more likeable- and they just believe they know everything about the situation and that they know best. You're this close to going 'SHUT UP!!! AND GO AWAY!!'. I mean when Pat first speaks to Buffy and is all 'You go be with your Mother. You two need to rebond', Buffy's expression is priceless. It's like 'Erm...okay?'. I mean if someone had ever spoken to me like that in that patronizing tone about mine and my mother's relationship I would have...well, I don't think I would have been able to hold back a witty and/or cutting retort.

As for Xander I thought he was just showing that his loyalties aren't just to Buffy. He's a friendly guy in general and always sticks up for his friends whether it's Buffy, Willow or even Joyce. Plus, I think it was always implied that Xander was the one of the group that spent most time with Joyce that summer. Especially with the 'You should have seen what you put it through'. It just seems to imply that he was there to see what she was put through and after seeing her, presumably a complete wreck, he felt the need to say something.
Plus Joyce was getting just as upset as her daughter in that argument- they were throwing all sorts of defences and attacks at one another after all- and Xander saw this and stepped into the argument to back her up.
But I do agree on some level that yeah, this was between Buffy and Joyce at the moment and it should been left to them two to yell it out. However, Xander also had his issues with Buffy at that time and so as well as backing up Joyce, he felt he needed his say too.

I like this episode for that because it made me think of friendships, in general, and what limitations should we have or should there be any. Did Buffy really owe them an explanation while she was away and trying to make sense of it all herself? So far, I'm still convinced that if you are a true friend, you will wait and let your friend deal with her issues in private. If you're really close then that friend would know you will be there when that friend is ready to share.

I hear what you're saying and I do agree but sometimes a situation calls for a confrontation like this. I had a very similar situation with a friend in High school (Last year of high school actually, so wow, was the same age as Buffy and co at the time. Freaky, haha). I mean she hadn't run away after killing her boyfriend with a sword or anything but she was moping about rather a lot, Depressed Queen but no share time whatsoever, but she'd snap and get all upset if we weren't constantly paying her attention. In the end I told her we'd all had enough and that she needed to either tell us what was the matter or get over it. The argument did escalate with my other friends joining in which I did NOT agree with as it made it a bigger deal than it was (Which is why I do have my partial agreement with your whole Xander-shouldn't-have-joined-in point) but the confrontation was needed. I told my friend that we were always here for her, cared about her but what are we supposed to do if she just keeps shrinking in on herself and not telling us anything.
After that she did start sharing her feelings and what was going on and ended up being a lot better for it. And I don't think, without that confrontation, she would have ever been able to get out of that funk.

So I guess what I'm saying is it depends on the situation. Sometimes a big shout-out confrontation is required...

[caitaintdead]

There were some good pieces of humour in this episode... I love when Oz looks at the cat and says he wants to call it patches! And in the later episodes when Jonathan becomes more of a feature I'm always reminded of Buffy saying "You there, by the dip!" and the way he freezes with the chip in mid air. He looks absolutely terrified to have that much focus on him. Another brilliant piece of comic humour is the gang talking about Buffys party... sorry hootenanny!

Oz seems to be written brilliantly for the entire duration of this episode. I guess because he's the only person that wasn't upset by Buffy's sudden return.

Maybe not the best episode in the Buffyverse but I do believe it was necessary to get past the awkwardness between the Scoobs and Joyce... I am hugely thankful that they didn't drag it out over 3 episodes.

[Giants Rule 04]

There was some great humor in this episode, much of it by Oz when discussing Giles' cat and the party. One thing that bothered me about this episode was Buffy's friends. More than once when they were fighting, I found myself wondering exactly who they thought they were; this is especially true of Xander. Not my favorite episode, but I agree that it was a way for the show to get through the awkwardness of Buffy's return.

[Keanoite]

I really enjoyed this ep...although I did want to smack Xander upside the head a few times.

[Rebecca]

This was the first episode I ever saw and at the time I thought it was brilliant, though after watching it quite a lot more since I've changed my mind. I guess this episode had to happen really, with Buffy coming back to Sunnydale after deserting everyone for the whole summer, however everytime I watch this I feel so sorry for Buffy and Joyce too slightly.

Comedy in this episode is good though, and Oz as usual is hilarious, though the party kinda annoyed me! Why couldn't they have just gone and had a meal at Buffy's house without causing all the palaver of a party? :(

Basically this episode is a whole lot of me feeling sorry for Buffy and hating everybody else, bar Joyce cause I love Joyce.

[Joyce Summers]

Why couldn't they have just gone and had a meal at Buffy's house without causing all the palaver of a party?

Basically this episode is a whole lot of me feeling sorry for Buffy and hating everybody else, bar Joyce cause I love Joyce.

Parties in Buffy's honor tend to go badly. Monsters crash, people die....hehe.

Also, I may have to give you karma for the Joyce love :) Hehe

[Lyri]

There are some really great scenes in this episode, but I think overall it's a pretty standard ep.

I loved the gang with Giles' cat, especially Oz. He was so cute and funny. The whole Shindig/hootnany/gathering scene was and is one of the best ever BTVS scenes. And Oz scenes, for that matter.

I loved how the gang all tried to deal with Buffy being back in their lives again. Oz and Cordy seemed not to really care either way, they were more interested in their honeys. I liked how Xander got mad and tried not to show it. Buffy's leaving seemed to hurt him the most, because she didn't talk to him about it. Giles' sad little smile in the kitchen was so touching. It was almost like he was glad she was back because he had a job again, lol. Willow's reaction was the hardest for me. She didn't know what to do. Does she act like nothing's happened? Confront Buffy about in privacy? Her anger at Buffy trying to leave again pushed her over the edge and her confrontation with Buffy in the middle of the living room, dragging everyone else into it, was a great scene. Even Cordelia got involved AND she was on Buffy's side. Great Cordy moment, even if she was tactless as always.

The zombie aspect bored me. Plus, bufyf staking one to see if it was a vampire or not? Does she not have eyes? CLEARLY these were anything but vampires.

Xander's hiding behind the bed watching Joyce attack the demon was pure funniness! Cordy and Oz getting left to fight together was a good move. They never really had many scenes together and I liked this one.

Best Cordy/Giles moment EVER?

Cordy: How do we know it's you and not Zombie-Giles?
Giles: Cordelia, do stop being tiresome.
Cordy: [Beat] It's him.

For some reason, I've always liked the scene where the the gang see Buffy for the first time. You know, the scene in the alley where she saves them from the vamp and they're all lying on the floor looking up at her. Don't know why, but it's always been a great moment for me.

[Senior Watcher]

i am not a fan of buffy in this episode. she is kindof whiny and very selfish. i know that she got kicked out of her house and school and killed angel, but come on, where better to turn that to the people that have stuck by her for the past 2 years! willow and xander and giles have always been there for her, she could have easily talked to them, but she didnt. she ran away. very immature.

anyway, i hope yall know that i love buffy very much, but sometimes im like "rrrrrr, sigh."

[willow23]

Buffy was being fired at from all angles. I don;t think she was selfish. SHe had a traumatic year: Angel turning evil, killing him, being wanted for murder. Joyce was a little unfair, particularly in that she said don't come back, then got mad at her for leaving. She was completely unfair to Buffy, I mean, I get that finding out about the slayer thing was shocking, but still. Even after a few months, Joyce continued to harp on it, chastising Buffy. I mean Joyce said: "You made some bad choices." What bad choices, getting Chosen. C'mon. No one was cutting Buffy any slack, even Willow stood her up.

And don't get me started on Xander's insensitivity.