Lie To Me - Buffy knowing about Spike?

[Senior Watcher]

well, there is another thread about Lie To Me, but its specific to Ford. my thread is about another part of the story.

Did anyone else notice that when buffy was trapped with Ford and the others waiting "to be changed by the lonely one" she exclaimed, "spike and his gang will be here any minute to feed on everyone, not turn them!" ok, the quote was off the top of my head so its not spot on........but heres my point: noone ever mentioned to buffy that it was spike and his gang that were coming. how did she know? was this a writers flaw?

i think so.

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

i dont think it was a flaw. spike was the big bad there, and she knew he was the type to go for something like this, free blood bath for him and his buddies... i think it was an assumption but it was a logical one.

[Senior Watcher]

i dunno. maybe. its a 'stretch' to assume that buffy knew it was spike and his gang, but i guess its possible.

[white avenger]

i dont think it was a flaw. spike was the big bad there, and she knew he was the type to go for something like this, free blood bath for him and his buddies... i think it was an assumption but it was a logical one.


I agree. Spike was the alpha male of the vampires in Sunnydale at that time, and this group of deluded kids weren't some single random kill. They were a special occasion. He even brought his lady out for a night on the town.

[Senior Watcher]

I agree. Spike was the alpha male of the vampires in Sunnydale at that time, and this group of deluded kids weren't some single random kill. They were a special occasion. He even brought his lady out for a night on the town.

as far as WE know, spike was the alpha male. but lets face it, sunnydale is jam-packed with demons and other evil things.

but keep in mind, ford tackled a girl vamp and (im speculating here because we dont know exactly what he said) said "take me to your leader." her leader just happened to be spike. he could have tackled a vamp on the other side of town and had a whole new gang of vamps to deal with.

i still think its an error in writing. or, it was written and acted out that ford mentions spike, but the editing room snipped it out.

[Cangel]

as far as WE know, spike was the alpha male. but lets face it, sunnydale is jam-packed with demons and other evil things.


Even with Sunnydale full with vampires I think Spike still was the alpha male. Remember how he killed the anointed one? Probably made himself a name with that. And he was the only vampire at that time seriously plotting to kill Buffy. Probably got credit for that as well.

[Tranquillity]

Wasn't it because Buffy knew that the blonde girl vampire that Ford said he killed but acctually let get away then came back to steal a book from the library and Buffy knew that she was one of Spike's minions? And then she put two and two together. Been a while since i saw that one, but that's how i always interpreted it.

[littlewilly]

Even with Sunnydale full with vampires I think Spike still was the alpha male. Remember how he killed the anointed one? Probably made himself a name with that. And he was the only vampire at that time seriously plotting to kill Buffy. Probably got credit for that as well.

I agree she knew either because Spike was the alpha vamp, or that that blonde vamp seen them. But SD wasnt 'jam packed' or 'full' of vampires. There were probably like 10 or 15 at any given time.
Even with only 15 vamps, say, killing 2 people aweek each, thats over 1500 vamp related death every year, so can you imagine if SD really was jam packed, and there was about 50 vampires? Thats 4 or 5 thousand deaths, and even for a town as ignorant to this stuff as SD is, even thats far too many deaths. They wouldnt stand for that.

[RockManic]

Obviously good logic but I'd have to imagine that there were more than 10 or 15 at any given time though. I mean, given that we saw gangs of 5 or 6 vamps in numerous episodes, from the vamps that were under the command of the Master and Spike in seasons 1 and 2 to the gang that Sunday controlled in The Freshman and various other groups we have seen over the years, not to mention all the individual "redshirt" vampires that Buffy has casually staked, 10 to 15 wouldn't really cut it.

Besides that, who would have been responsible for keeping the number of vamps to a safe level? It's not as if there was a line of vamps waiting to be allowed into Sunnydale as each current SD vamp was dusted, right?

That said, I do take your point about the amount of dead people there would be if you were talking hundreds of vamps but the evidence of what we saw on the show suggests to me that there would be closer to 40 or 50 vampires in Sunnydale at any given time. Maybe they just ordered food from out of town... ;)

[littlewilly]

But Buffy dusted most new vamps, and its true we saw Master with a gang, and Sundae in s4, and other various gangs. But not only were these different times, but buffy killed them.
Maybe though, Vampires only *need* to feed like, once a month, and its just a few pshyco vamps like Spike that kills more than he needs, and if this is the case, there could be about 50 vampires.

[RockManic]

Yeah, I'm working on the basis that most vamps kill only when needed (a sensible approach when living in Sunnydale with a slayer nearby) so the kill rate would be as low as possible to avoid drawing attention to their particular part of town.

Another point is that Sunnydale was a Hellmouth, a supposed magnet for demons and evil folk. I'd be very surprised to find such a place with only a handful of vampires at any one time.

[angelchick182]

I just figured that Buffy assumed it was Spike when she realized that Ford lured her there to use her as a trade. Sure, there may be lots of vamps in Sunnydale, but most of them seemed to try to stay under the Slayer's radar as much as possible. Spike was pretty much the only one at that time that was ambitious enough to make his presence known and tell the Slayer face to face that he was going to kill her. Angel told Buffy and the gang in "School Hard" that Spike was the type to set his mind to something and not stop until everyone is dead. All of these things together made me think that Buffy was probably 99.9% sure it was Spike.