Discussion of "Angel: After the Fall #5" Release )3/19/08 *SPOILERS IN FIRST POST!*

[Clem Rocks]

Wow, what a cliffhanger huh?! So big and yet perhaps the worst one yet =|

Atleast the rest of the issue was good, find out some nice stuff like

Lyndsey is dead =[ but WR&H can bring him back as a zombie!
Spike does actually still have his cool old clothes
Angel has a flaming sword
Groo would like to see a dragon and a T-Rex have a nice fight
Angel can shave easier than he can cut his hair XD
Spike didn't know Wes was still around, and wanted to know if there was an amulet involved
And of course, the big cliffhanger, which i won't mention, even for the people that read the spoilers, which i actualy didn't this time, so you know this was a big issue people XD

Fav line: Lorne - Let's get to work.

[Spike Angelus]

Just read it, and I thought it was awesome. Cruel to leave us hanging with that type of cliffhanger, but still awesome.
This felt like Angel, finally. Took a while, but I think ATF finally got it’s footing.
What I liked:
The fight: It’s like they are finally making up for not showing the ally fight.
Lorne: I loved his “Let’s get to work” line. A very nice nod to the final line of the TV show.
Spike is Spike again! The coat! The attitude! I just wished he would have said “bloody hell!”.
Fred is back! I think, or was it Illarya in her form, like she did when Wes died?

What I didn’t like:
We have to wait 4 frakking months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Clem Rocks]

Fred is back! I think, or was it Illarya in her form, like she did when Wes died?

When i first saw it, i thought it was just Illyria taking her form again, but the more i think about it, the more i think it's actually Fred. Angel has said that Illyria has been showing emotion, that could be a sign that it's really Fred.

My person theory on it is that Illyria has been affected by one of her own timeslips and her body has gone back to when it used to be Fred's, so now both her and Fred have to share it.

[Allycat]

When i first saw it, i thought it was just Illyria taking her form again, but the more i think about it, the more i think it's actually Fred. Angel has said that Illyria has been showing emotion, that could be a sign that it's really Fred.

My person theory on it is that Illyria has been affected by one of her own timeslips and her body has gone back to when it used to be Fred's, so now both her and Fred have to share it.

Awesome theory!

I loved this issue. It does make up for the NFA-fight we never got to see. The best thing about it is that the gang is back together. From his reaction, you gather that Spike might have already known about the whole Fred/Illyria thing.

I got the secret variant, which doesn't really reveal that big of a spoiler, if you ask me. Which cover did everyone else get?

[Spike Angelus]

When i first saw it, i thought it was just Illyria taking her form again, but the more i think about it, the more i think it's actually Fred. Angel has said that Illyria has been showing emotion, that could be a sign that it's really Fred.

My person theory on it is that Illyria has been affected by one of her own timeslips and her body has gone back to when it used to be Fred's, so now both her and Fred have to share it.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Clem Rocks]

Awesome theory!

I loved this issue. It does make up for the NFA-fight we never got to see. The best thing about it is that the gang is back together. From his reaction, you gather that Spike might have already known about the whole Fred/Illyria thing.

I got the secret variant, which doesn't really reveal that big of a spoiler, if you ask me. Which cover did everyone else get?

I got cover B too

And with you saying about Spike maybe knowing about it got me thinking, maybe it has something to do with why he had her locked up in issue 4?

[Spike Angelus]

I got cover B too

And with you saying about Spike maybe knowing about it got me thinking, maybe it has something to do with why he had her locked up in issue 4?

Good point. I had just thought he locked her up becasue she was angry, and we all know how she gets, but now you have me thinking....

[Clem Rocks]

Good point. I had just thought he locked her up becasue she was angry, and we all know how she gets, but now you have me thinking....

Maybe Illyria doesn't like Fred being back so after Fred has the body and Illyria gets it back, she gets majorly pissed and Spike has to lock her up to save him and the humans? XD


And quick question, does everyone else think Angel's vampire glamour is in his...? yeah :whistle:

[Spike Angelus]

Maybe Illyria doesn't like Fred being back so after Fred has the body and Illyria gets it back, she gets majorly pissed and Spike has to lock her up to save him and the humans? XD


And quick question, does everyone else think Angel's vampire glamour is in his...? yeah :whistle:

Makes me wonder if he has trouble in the restroom.

Anyway, isn't a glamour a spell, and not an object?

[Clem Rocks]

Makes me wonder if he has trouble in the restroom.

Anyway, isn't a glamour a spell, and not an object?

I believe it needs an object to contain the power of the spell, when Angel used a glamour in season 5 to make it look to Hamilton as if the gang were still fighting, the glamour was an amulate like object that Angel had in his pocket

[Spike Angelus]

I forgot about that.

I'm sure it's in his blood or heart or something.

Or could he be the glamour?

[Allycat]

I just read on Whedonesque that there's a Jay & Silent Bob cameo. Look at top panel of page 2. There's also another demon of the same species as K'ryph there.

[Clem Rocks]

I just read on Whedonesque that there's a Jay & Silent Bob cameo. Look at top panel of page 2. There's also another demon of the same species as K'ryph there.

I noticed the Kr'ph demon, but having never seen a Jay & Silent Bob film, i thought those two were just random humans/demons lol

[Tranquillity]

This was an awesome issue! i don't think i've ever enjoyed a single issue of a comic as much as i enjoyed this one. Seriously i cried after reading it i loved it that much. So many good things:

Spider and her girls finally have some clothes on - yay!
Spike!
Angel!
Lorne getting off his fence!
The bands back together - the 'justice league' cover makes so much sense now and that panel of them all fighting together - truely magnificent.
The dynamic between Angel and Spike - see they do really love eachother, they just don't want to admit it...
Wesley!
Spike and Illyria - also a fantastic dynamic there.
Gunn - so very intreaguing
The Ending!!!

Can't believe we have to wait four months to see what happens next. it's funny that when ATF started all i wanted to know was what happened in the alley post-NFA, but now i'm completely invested in this story and want more of it (not that i'm not looking forward to First Night...).

Just magnificent!

end of gush:)

[Ashxking]

One big question. If this ithe real deal hell in La dose that mean the souls of the dead are in the city. Would Explain why Skip was back

[Spike Angelus]

I just read on Whedonesque that there's a Jay & Silent Bob cameo. Look at top panel of page 2. There's also another demon of the same species as K'ryph there.

The Jay and Silent Bob demons were easy to spot.

Edit:

One big question. If this ithe real deal hell in La dose that mean the souls of the dead are in the city. Would Explain why Skip was back

That's not Skip. It's the same species of demon, and a she. Lorne and Angel talked about it in number 4.

[Clem Rocks]

that panel of them all fighting together - truely magnificent.

I have a pic of that as my desktop wallpaper ^^

[Hero]

Could someone tell me what the "cliffhanger" is? I was never too big a fan of Angel so I'm only following it through BB.

[Clem Rocks]

One thing that confused me, dunno if it confused you lot because you haven't talked about it, is Wesley's meeting. Apparently everyone assumes it was the SPs he was talking to, i just thought it was the conduit =/ And where was it? The WR&H building got blown up, the white room can't be just floating there, can it?

[Allycat]

The White Room is not an actual room, it's a different (pocket-)dimension or something like that. It does not occupy a physical space in this world. And I'm not sure if it's the SP or the conduit. Isn't he the conduit?!

[Kemy]

The White Room is an existential pocketverse generated and maintained by the will/power of the Senior Partners, we have seen them revoke its existence once before in Season 5.

Its exists as a point between our world and their plane of existence. The Conduit is a semi-corporeal life form that has a psychic link to both worlds and is as close to direct communication with the Senior Partners as one can get.

For one thing I'd like to see the concept explored a little more in the comics, maybe the same method for its creation where used in albeit a different way to take Los Angeles into Hell. Manifesting a pocket of that reality around LA?

[Clem Rocks]

Isn't he the conduit?!

Wesley? I thought he was more like Angel's new liaison to the Senior Partners?

[Kemy]

Wesley is the new liaison, since the Conduit only exists within the White Room, and with the W&H building in the state it is, and any physical being in such danger in a Hell like setting, makes sense for W&H to use a non-corporeal or non-killable liaison not bound to the building.

[thegifting]

...the Conduit only exists within the White Room...

That's not true. Mesektet Ra existed outside the White Room.

[Ashxking]

I have a thought. W&H didnt send LA to hell. Why kill off most of there Human clinets not smart move for a lawfirm. Eve said if W&H wasnt around evil would go someplace else that was more evil. Veil and Arch Duke Sabisis had hundreds of followers who hated humans and knew how to punish angel for killing there "LORDS" With no one to say no they use all there powers bring about Hell-a. No one in the COTBT was a human.

[thegifting]

No one in the COTBT was a human.

That's not true. A couple of them were.

[alexa]

Liked this issue, although was kind of wanting them to see Gunn.. really curious about what's up with that.

But yay Spike has regular clothes! And so does his army of playboy playmates.
Loved the Angel and Spike love. Something about Spike kicking butt and being all righteous that's just good to watch. :p
Wasn't expecting the Fred reveal at all! Even though it was hinted at rather largely. Wonder why Spike thinks it's bad if Wesley is around her...

[Dlou444]

Am I the only one that WASN'T tickled to see Fred?
I don't know, maybe it's the comic book form and not TV (and thus not REALLY "Fred" in my head) or maybe it's because Wesley's still dead and apparently able to be pulled like silly putty in the SP's non-existent hand AND Gunn's "dead". It could be that she looks so small and helpless in the middle of that battle too. Certainly bad timing.
But, I LIKE Illyria! And I'm worried about what will happen if 1.) Fred comes back 2.) She's constantly popping back and forth and WORSE 3.) If they can somehow separate them. Then, sure, we'll have Fred, but so much of Illyria's humanity has been based on what was left of Fred. At least that's how they've played it. Not to mention, it's FRED that made the other's "deal" with Illyria and help make her as adorable as she was.
I wonder if it has more to do with what is happening to Nina. Kind of Wolf/Woman at the same time so Illyria would be two things at once too. Spike obviously knew, so it must have been going on for some time now.

Honestly, there are only two outcomes I think I could live with.
1.) Fred comes back as a ghost too and we end up with TWO of them running around and in love, where she can bop over and help Gunn from time to time. Although, I don't see how TWO ghosts are going to help much. Wesley seems to be practically useless. But, maybe Fred can find a way, in hell, to bring them BOTH back.
2.) It turns into an Incredible Hulk type thing. We have Fred when she's happy and then she turns mean and blue when she's mad. That would be kind of fun. Heck, then she'd make a GREAT girl for Spike. Just the kind of woman he needs. And, I'd PAY to hear her say, "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry":lmao::lmao:

[Angel's vision]

Angel shaving was hilarious and the ending well...I can wait till the next part, not as exciting as it would have been if th ecomic had been released near to S5.
I guess I have lost some of the suspence excitment that went with watching the show, also the SP's really need their butts kicked for sure, I hate that they go unpunished and need to feel the pain!

[white avenger]

I feel kinda cheated. I was really looking forward to an epic fight between the dragon and the T Rex. And as far as the last panel is concerned, there was always a plan for Season 6, if the show had stayed on the air, to split Illyria/Fred into two separate beings. It looks like they're moving on with that. Probably Ferd's body is rejecting the hell god power, kind of like an overloaded transformer, and the only way to prevent her/them from dying will be to split the combined entity into two separate beings. How long do you think it'll take Fred, once she's separated from Illyria, to find a way to make Wes all solid again?