The Bangel Appreciation Thread

[Keanoite]

This is where EVERY member of the board will participate. Bangel is clearly the best ship in the verse and here is where we give it the kudos it deserves.

[Black Eye Guy]

Im actually alright with this change, but em... well I know you new and all but shouldn't this go in "Others / Guest Stars / Shippers" in the characters section?

I know you were only just made a mod awhile ago so just wanted to pass on my knowledge, since I've been here longer then like 5minuets or so!

[Keanoite]

No I like it here just fine.

[Bangelxx]

haha, the bangel appreciation thread eh?nice....

[Black Eye Guy]

No I like it here just fine.


But it's in the wrong place....?

[Cangel]

Okay, here comes my Bangel appreciation: it was good while it lasted, get over it

okay, now I'm gonna praise Cangel...could take a few days until I'm finished

[Keanoite]

Social Suicide check Cangel at the door

[Lyri]

*Waves the Flag of the Spuffies*

Bangel who? It was a teenage thing, they moved onto better people. Let. It. Go!

[Cangel]

Yeah, can we blame Bangel on hormones and teen lust?

[Lyri]

Yeah, can we blame Bangel on hormones and teen lust?

Of course it was hormones and teen lust!! How else do you explain all the angst!

[Dlou444]

This isn't a very good coup guys. We're suppose to THROW THINGS!
Here, throw this BAT ::bbat::

[Cangel]

haha, I can't see the bat, only the eyes. Well, at least I got my pretty black scheme back :D

[doppelgänger]

Doesn't matter how much you pay me, give me Amber Benson dressed in a cheese-suit, I will NEVER appreciate Bangel. NEVER.

[Keanoite]

This was my craziest new approach to BB...can we keep it????...LOL

[Lyri]

NO! I'm unstaking this right now and sending it to the cemetery!!

[Angels baby101]

For the record this was the greatest Part of the new Boards ;)

[palabravampiress]

Crap... I missed this thread and now the April Fool's Day thing is over. :-(

Umm... Bangel was a world of awesome because -- it opened the door for Spuffy? Go team Spuffy!

[alexa]

LOL I like this new change ;)
I'll always join some Bangel appreciation.. even if it was an April Fools thread.

[Cangel]

Next year we'll have Cangel appreciation :p

[Keanoite]

Not likey! maybe a 'Kick Cangel to the Curb' thread...it has a certain ring to it!

[Cangel]

If you're looking for a certain ring, why not go for 'Bangel brings boredom', it's even an alliteration!

[caitaintdead]

Hang on, I might be 2 months out of date in this... But... Bangel scenes gave me the perfect opportunity to use the bathroom during an episode!

[The Kinslayer]

This is where EVERY member of the board will participate.
Hmm, I guees that means I have to be here?


Bangel is clearly the best ship in the verse
So considering all this April fools thing (I know I´m late!!!) that means you were just kidding? Puhh, I knew you couldn´t be all bad.

And how can everybody think that Spuffy´s so great? Only one of them were in love. Cangel on the other hand is the real thing. Or something like that...

[Crazy Flakes]

Might as well post here, since all the cool kids seem to be doin' it.

I love Bangel and all, but CANGEL ALL THE WAY!

Since Cangel isn't that popular, though, we should have a Tillow Appreciation Thread! Everyone knows they're cute, floaty fun!

[Starlet]

I'll never appreciate Bangel! Only Spuffy and Cangel works for me.

[bufsum]

::kisses the ground:: hello all, I'm home!

I am still figuring out all of the boards, and have been looking for a Bangel thread on the shippers board. I found you all!

And... hi... sorry for all the excitement!

and come over to my thread, thanks! and Eeep...

... sheepish! :)

[Starlet]

TrueVengeance agrees: agreed. but we agree Cangel's the best, right?!

I must say Spuffy was always number 1 for me but Cangel is second and really close:D

[Keanoite]

Listen to all these crazy people with their Cangel and Spuffy...sigh *shakes head*. You have lost your way my friends but you have come to the right place:) We'll have the Cangelitis and Spuffy flu (think bird flu but with Spuffy...vicious, vicious disease...my sympathies to you all) cleared right up in no time;)...LOL

[Keanoite]

Hehe. What about the Banders? Can you cure us, too?

There is hope for all here on the good ship Bangel:) We'll clear that Bander right outta ya;)

[bufsum]

Is that like the good ship Lollipop? Can we make a song?

[palabravampiress]

^ Hehe. A Bangel song to the tune of "Good Ship Lollipop." Hilarious.

[The Chosen]

Bangel Bangel Bangel Bangel!

Bangel is the best! WOOT.

:woot:

[Cangel]

Oh my God, people, stop it with all the misspelling.
One last time for everyone.
It's not Bangel, it's Cangel. For those of you who have trouble remembering, 'B' is not the key you are looking for. Whenever you feel like pressing this key, just move your finger two keys to the left and there you go :D

[randiann]

SS I hope they teach you how to spell when you go to university. It's BANGEL!!!

[InsaneMystic]

You're knocking down open doors with me. I have no troucle rememcering that. That other letter got cad after "Cecoming".

(Ok, I'm silly to play along with it, but couldn't resist. :lmao: )

[Keanoite]

Well our venture into music super stardom all depends one thing...does anyone know the second line of the "Goo Ship Lollipop"?

[Lyri]

Something about a Candy shop?

And can we PLEASE unstick this thread? Or stake a Spuffy one? It's really starting to do my head in! :lmoa:

[VisionGuy]

Why the hell is this thread staked??!!!!!

:no:

[Keanoite]

Cuz it was for April Fool's and well it mostly was to show how much I shouldn't be left in charge!LOL...and by the way you and Lyri are just jealous cuz there's no Spordelia or Spander thread:eviltongu

[InsaneMystic]

Spordelia?? Now where's that coming from? (not etymologically speaking of course)

[Cangel]

Lol, wasn't there an episode on Buffy where she (Buffy) described what she was like before she came to Sunnydale and used the name 'Spordelia' as an example?

[The Chosen]

And can we PLEASE unstick this thread? Or stake a Spuffy one? It's really starting to do my head in! :lmoa:

Kean's right. You're totally in the closet when it comes to Bangel. It's all right...you can come on out...there's lots of other Bangels waiting for you!

[white avenger]

Why don't we settle this whole Spuffy/Bangel thing once and for all like the ladies and gentlemen we are? We can have Willow split Buffy into two seperate Slayers, each as powerful as the other. Then the two girls can wrestle it out, oil applied freely. The winner gets Spike, the loser gets Angel. Two perfect matches: a pair of winners, and a pair of losers. Everyone walks away happy. Whadda you say?

[Lyri]

Cuz it was for April Fool's and well it mostly was to show how much I shouldn't be left in charge!LOL...and by the way you and Lyri are just jealous cuz there's no Spordelia or Spander thread:eviltongu


THIS *points to the bolded word above* is the ONLY way I'd ever accept Bangel! :lmao:

[bufsum]

I am about ten seconds away from creating a Bangel theme song to the tune of "Good Ship Lollipop." :whistle:

[white avenger]

I am about ten seconds away from creating a Bangel theme song to the tune of "Good Ship Lollipop." :whistle:


I wish I was an apple tree
With apples big and red
And every time a Bangeler walked by
I'D DROP ONE ON HIS HEAD

We love our Spuffy
We don't get huffy
As long as it's Spuffy
IT'S HOW IT'S GOTTA BE!

[Old Master 3.0]

For a Bangel appreciation thread, there sure are a lot of non-Bangels in here.

Well, let's fix that.

I am a Bangel. Then, now and always.

And all of you who enter this thread are now Bangels. Right?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/Old_Master/DIRTYHARRY.jpg


Yes. That's right. You're all Bangels.



:p :p

[Crazy Flakes]

Yes. That's right. You're all Bangels.


What's that? We're all Bangles?

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n14/infava/pictures/bangles.jpg

Whatever you say...

[InsaneMystic]

What's that? We're all Bangles?

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n14/infava/pictures/bangles.jpg

Whatever you say...
Now that's the only kind of Bangel I wouldn't mind being. Especially the redhead. (I am such a fetishist. ::heart:::buffy_wil:heart:)

[Keanoite]

Ok lads, OM has spoken. All non-Bangels stick em up...start showing the Bangel love or else...MWAHAHAHAHAHA

[bufsum]

:whistle:On the good ship Ba-n-gel
We have the Shanshu angle
Where cookie-dough bakes
In the cemetary another wakes:whistle:

Wow, that was lame... but Bangel still rocks! :coolman:

[SoBlind]

*Waves the Flag of the Spuffies*

Bangel who? It was a teenage thing, they moved onto better people. Let. It. Go!

better people? are u serious? how was spike a "better person" for buffy? :P and how was riley a better anything. cordy only happened for angel because after the darla storyline was done she was the next best thing. in the buffy finale, when angel came to help her out they kissed and both made it quite clear that they were still thinking about the other one. bangel all the way

[DarklyDreamingDrusilla]

I appreciate Bangel for keeping Buffy away from Spike so that he can be with his true love...DRUSILLA! :smile:

[bufsum]

I do have to agree with that one, Spike and Drusilla all the way. Their realtionship was so wonderfully complicated, I loved it.

[Violette]

I've always been a Bangel :) I liked how Joss created that "cookie" dialogue/Buffy & Angel scene at the graveyard in the end of the BtVS series.. gives B/A shippers hope for them getting back together and living happily ever after some time in the future :P
Angel episode "I Will Remember You" always kills me though, but I LOVE that episode.

"I ain't getting any older." --Angel

[austenwings86]

I been a Bangel shipper for ten years and I am not giving up hope for those two! Soulmates!

[Bangelxx]

yes I agree austenwings96! THEY ARE SOULMATES! we must band together!:D

[Veyron]

SPUFFY RULES OK!

Nuff said.

[DrusillaRox]

I agree with all Bangelers.....I think I said most of what I needed to in karma

[pernilleborup]

Veryon....I'm with you ! Even though this is a Bangel thread, the Spyffy lover in me tells me to me rude and say:

SPUFFY IS SPICY
BANGEL IS BORING!!!!!

*runs out of the thread*

[Veyron]

No! I shan't leave, you'll have to drag me out kicking and screaming!!!!

SPUFFY RULES!











































And always will :)

[Keanoite]

Bangel is here for the long haul...spuffy was nothing but a fling at it's best it's a friendship. Joss himself says that Buffy and Angel will never love another like they did and continue to love eachother. Get used to it spuffies...Bangel is the real deal :eviltongu

[DarkAvenger]

NO! Bangel was just a teenage thing! Buffy was young Angel is handsome of course she liked him!!! She saw him 2 or 3 times and she was saying to willow that she was in love with him - ridiculous!!! She just wanted a boyfriend ..

[white avenger]

Read it directly from the man who created it all. High school Buffy loved Angel. Then she grew up.



Buffy was in love with Spike the moment their hands clasped. -- Joss Whedon (San Diego Convention)

[Bangelxx]

agreeing with Kean here!
Spike and Buffy was just a fling for ONE SEASON. and yeah, okay. they're friends :) I mean, I love Spike I just don't like Spike/Buffy as a couple!
Buffy/Angel was the real thing. I just don't understand how people don't think that it is!

[DarkAvenger]

That's in so NOT true. I'm sorry, but Buffy doesn't love angel anymore she MOVED ON!!!

[Keanoite]

"I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life"- Buffy Summers about Angel.

[Aussie]

You Spuffys are all deluded. Yeah it was hot and fun Im sure, but at the end of the day Buffy WILL end up with Angel. Its true love. They can have their seperate fun but in the end they will be together :D

[DarkAvenger]

hahahahaha only in your dreams!!

[white avenger]

If someone is there for you, is asking nothing of you and has loved you faithfully and unconditionally for all those years, and if that person is the one that you turn to for comfort and support when you are at your most vulnerable, and if they give you that comfort and support unconditionally asking nothing in return, then whether you acknowledge it or not, that is love, so yes, Buffy loved Spike." -- Jane Espenson


(Your turn, Miss K)

[Veyron]

Us Spuffy's deluded? No, I think not.

The Spike and Buffy relationship is more than mere friendship - it was proven many times over. How many times has Buffy had the opportunity to stake Spike and not done it. She forgave him for the attempted rape, she's forgiven him for all sorts of different things - can that be said of Angel?

"I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life"- Buffy Summers about Angel - yeah she said that, but remember, she's died twice and people's perceptions and points of view about life, love and things in general change - can you honestly say that your first love, as Angel was with Buffy will be your only love? No... Didn't think so. Me either.

So face it you Bangels - it's over, done, dusted! Move on to your next defeated arguement.

[DarkAvenger]

If someone is there for you, is asking nothing of you and has loved you faithfully and unconditionally for all those years, and if that person is the one that you turn to for comfort and support when you are at your most vulnerable, and if they give you that comfort and support unconditionally asking nothing in return, then whether you acknowledge it or not, that is love, so yes, Buffy loved Spike." -- Jane Espenson


(Your turn, Miss K)

I'd give you reputation but you were the last person I gave karma to... lol

I think they don't know how to answer that. haha because they know what you said is true.. they just don't want to admit it hehe

[hannahfngrl26]

Okay my turn. As you all know I am a huge Bangel appreciater as you all love to call it here (which btw for a few days I was like what the hell is Bangel and Spuffy and then I was like oh) and so now I must weigh in with my opinion. So listen I will tell you that I loved Cangel. I thought they were wonderful together. I loved the journey that Cordy travelled to become ultimately what she became. Her last appearance in the fifth season was heart breaking.

Edit:

I loved Spike because he was crazy and dangerous and fun and he brought out a side of Buffy that we had never really seen. The reason I will always be a Bangel supporter is simple. We have all had those first loves that no matter what you say will always be with you to some extent. Doomed romance resonates the most because it represents everything you want but everything you can never have. Buffy loved Angel with everything she had and I will never believe anything different. Angel, likewise, shared the same feelings. So moving forward I think that the final scene between Buffy and Angel really does show that their love can be timeless. I think that if the circumstances were right (I.E. Angel became human) there would be no reason that they would not be together assuming that Buffy is fully baked and not with someone else. So in closing if the show were to come back whether in animated form or live action and it was a continuance off of the series finales for both shows I would only hope that Joss would have the good sense and decency to have them be together in the end. That would satisfy me for all time and I would really never need anything ever again :)

[sk73]

When I watch the show I can see that the Buffy - Angel love is there all through season 1 to 3.
Buffy might deny it for a few episodes in the beginning but thats it.
Even after season 3 we get to see that there still is something between them every now and then.

The Buffy - Spike love I can only see in the last 3 episodes of season 7 or so.
Before that I just can't see that Buffy shows any real true love towards Spike.

So somehow I feel that we, so far, never had a chance to see what could happend between Spike and Buffy.

Until we get that I really can't support the Spuffy side.

Not that I am big Bangel supporter either... it's not a big issue for me.
But I have no doubt that there was true love between Angel and Buffy which I do not have with Spike and Buffy.

/SK

[DarkAvenger]

We (spuffy..ers) don't say that Buffy didn't love Angel, because she did but she moved on, of course she'll always have feelings for him.. angel was her first true love, c'mon i'm not questioning (ok, i'm not sure if that's a word : erm : ) that.

About spike, I can say that Buffy had feelings for Spike in season 6, i can't say she loved him! But Buffy did love spike after that and I think she loved him not only in the last 3 episodes of season 7, she was in love with him way before that! And she told him she loved him! (Riley was a good person, everyone liked him, she liked him but she never told him she loved him. What i'm trying to say here is that she doesn't say "I love you" if she doesn't mean it.) So when she said "I love you" to spike that was REAL.

So, if Buffy had to choose between Angel and SPike, i think it would be difficult for her because Angel was like her 1st real boyfriend and she lovED him, but in the end she'd choose Spike because he's the one she lovES!)

[Tranquillity]

You people are all crazy - She loves them both!! Andrew told us so. And who would know better than Andrew::huh1::

That being said, I think she loves Spike just a little bit more:)

[MSchett]

Man I'm thinking spuffies must have some real insecurities about their favorite ship to feel the need to post anti Bangel stuff in the Bangel appreciation thread... ;)

[Bangelxx]

yeah, I agree MSchett! why do the spuffies post in our sacred Bangel appreciation thread!? *cry*

anyway...don't you guys have a spuffy appreciation thread to do you your bangel bashing?:wink:

[DarkAvenger]

WE DO IT BECAUSE WE'RE EVIL :evillol: :hehe:

[hannahfngrl26]

I think that the only way Buffy and Angel would be together is if Angel is human. With that being said if Angel did become human then she would totally chose him over Spike. Most likely. I think it would be great though if Angel did become human and then he fell in a vat of radioactive waste because then he would be human but have a cool mutant power like super strength and then it would really fall into place :)

[DarkAvenger]

erhh but if spike became a human she'd totally be with spike!!

BTW You have to change your signature, really... bangel, phff

[white avenger]

Here's another one for you:

"Some would say Angel and Buffy really had more of an idealized first love while Spike and Buffy have the more adult, messy, kind of love which is more realistic. That's right. It's not idealized and it's just so often ugly and yet when James Marsters does stuff where you look in his face and you go, 'Oh, my God, he loves her so much!' Ahh! It's just so wonderful." -Jane Espenson (BtVS writer)

[DarkAvenger]

haha i think you scared the bangelers!! They read your posts and started thinking that "we" might be right so they ran away hahahaa

[white avenger]

haha i think you scared the bangelers!! They read your posts and started thinking that "we" might be right so they ran away hahahaa'


Whadda you mean, "MIGHT be right?" We ARE right, girl!

[DarkAvenger]

:silly: arhh silly me! of course we ARE right!! we rule!! :elol:

[MSchett]

Just keep telling yourself that... and when Angel get's Buffy in the end just ignore that too ;)

[DarkAvenger]

hahaha you bangelers just come here and say things like that but you never disagree with what we say (i wonder why is that...........) .AND I didn't see any bangeler making a comment about what WA said. you just say things like "spuffy wasn't real but bangel is".. (i hope you understood what i was trying to say XD i can be really confusing sometimes!)

[MSchett]

I'm actually not all that much of a bangel but i would say i like spuffy less Angel's character was less ruined with Buffy while Spike just became a bore-athon after being so cool with Dru... Im a Xanya shipper for life! Also i just like stirring up trouble and pondering why the spuffies wait for the Bangels to reply in their own thread to bash them to death with Spuffy craziness...

[Airam]

I'm sorry, Bangel who? Right, yeah, no, see let me direct your attention directly below this sentence where you will see who Angel REALLY belonged with. k, thx. :biggrin:

[DrusillaRox]

You oviously scared Bangelxx off thats probably coz of yor violent bashing of her favourite ship thoguh.......anyway....Im still here....BANGEL RULES

[white avenger]

.BANGEL RULES


But Spuffy defies all the rules. Live with it.

So with David Boreanaz's Angel out of the picture, who's next?
"Joss doesn't like to tell us--with good reason," says Sarah, who admits she'd be the first to spill. OK, so Sarah won't dish love details, but she did reveal her fantasy guy: Spike! "When I mentioned the possibility of Spike and Buffy," says Sarah, "Joss was like, 'No more vampires!'" -- Sarah Michelle Gellar (January 2000, Teen Magazine)


(Even Sarah knew a good, or should I say GREAT, thing when she saw it)

[caitaintdead]

Reading through this thread has really cheered up my Saturday morning hangover blues while stuck at work.

Spuffy is just annihilating this argument!

[DrusillaRox]

never mind the fact that spike tried to rape buffy -- thats right I went there!

Also - spikes an idiot

[caitaintdead]

Thanks Airam... It's only a three hour shift, thank god! And I'm going home now... To do exactly what I was doing at work - sitting on the Buffy Boards and feeling guilty that I'm not doing something more constructive!

I think bangelers should learn a new line other then 'that time Spike tried to rape Buffy'... Oooh yeah, I went there!

Spike has character, a sense of humour, depth, sincerity.

I wouldn't necesserily call myself a Spuffy shipper but if I had a choice between two handsome men, I'd go for the one that I could have a laugh with and watch football. And I think Buffy has moved on from the days where she liked boys just because they're cute, now she finds herself attracted to people based on personality. Spuffy is the clear winner.

[DrusillaRox]

Ooh! yes, but did he apologize! and its probably overused due to the fact that its relevant

[MSchett]

I'm gonna play both sides of the argument here...

Spike: Spike not the great super guy Spuffies play him out to be... Even with a soul the first day he's corporeal after his ghost stint he's banging Harmony. That's one loyal guy! I don't remember Buffy laughing at any of Spike's jokes... Also how is Spike not at all shaken by his soul. He doesn't even apologize to Wood even though he killed his mother.

Angel: Mr. Broodypants is the opposite end of the spectrum and always regrets everything evil he's done... get's annoying after awhile, Also Angel's personality is the more sweet and sensitive the opposite of Spike's Mr. Bad Ass... Thing with Angel is he makes alot of major desicisions without using Buffy's opinion.

[DrusillaRox]

Hmm......I agree with both, I love harmonys line BLONDIE BEAR! when he first shows up

[Urgent Power]

I think Bangels are hanging on the past. They can't handle the fact that Buffy has moved on and she's not the season 3 high school girl anymore. I'm not trying to psych 101 on you, but I think this is the problem. You can't accept that Buffy can and does love someone else. Well... that's a little sad...

[pernilleborup]

. He doesn't even apologize to Wood even though he killed his mother.



Did you watch Lies my parents told me?

1. Spike can't give an apology. He was a vampire, and Nikki was a slayer. It's how the game is played. Slay or get slayed!

2. Spike, with a soul and no chip, bit Wood, but when Buffy comes he says he let Wood live cos of what he did to Nikki. That's the closet you can get to an apology from a being who wasn't responsable for his actions!

[Bangelxx]

I'm back! and no worries, DrusillaRox! I'm always up for a good bangel vs. spuffy argument! I had to leave because uhm...i can't remember...supper maybe?

[DarkAvenger]

Ooh! yes, but did he apologize! and its probably overused due to the fact that its relevant

rhh.. After he did that he felt so bad that he went after his soul!!

AND Spike didn't have a soul when he did that so if you're all saying bad things spike did when he didn't have a soul then i'm going to say some things that Angel did when he didn't have a soul either... Angel tried to kill Buffy, angel tried to kill her friends... and he didn't even love her!

[pernilleborup]

rhh.. After he did that he felt so bad that he went after his soul!!

AND Spike didn't have a soul when he did that so if you're all saying bad things spike did when he didn't have a soul then i'm going to say some things that Angel did when he didn't have a soul either... Angel tried to kill Buffy, angel tried to kill her friends... and he didn't even love her!

I have to hug you! It was just what I was about to say!

And if we look at the overall picture... Who would you rather have a relationship with(both soulless)

A vampire who enjoys massacrers, torture and cheating with friend's girlfriends?

Or a vampire, who also enjoys massacrers and torture, but who is so devoted to the girl who stole his dead heart that he never would cheat?

[DarkAvenger]

let me see... i vote B!!

[Veyron]

You Bangels are clutching at straws. Since leaving Sunnydale and going to LA how many times has Angel slept with other women?

He slept with Darla on several occasions during S2 and that was before getting to the season's half way point - of course, he was under the influence of some mystical spell/drug - but that's not the point. Buffy slept with the dude in college that used and abused her, Riley and Spike from S4 to S7.

Now, I have to say that I'm currently re-watching Angel (as I only got to S3 when it was first broadcast here in the UK) and I'm just past the midway point of S2 but you have to admit that Angel has had way more sex in that short time than Buffy had in the three remaining seasons of her show.

Okay, so Spuffy is true love, as Angel has moved on as has Buffy. The love affair that was Buffy's first love is, again I'll say it, over, done and dusted!

[pernilleborup]

let me see... i vote B!!



Congratulations that's correct. Now let's take a look at the prizes:


A giant Spuffy poster, and a certificate saying telling you that you have great taste, and have seen the ligth by choosing the right side .;D:cheering::cheering::cheering:

[hannahfngrl26]

Spuffy lovers every where need to realize one thing. Both Angel and Buffy have grown through out the years and been through things and experienced life and even after everything that has happened they still end up coming together in the end. No matter what happens they both will have a place for each other in their hearts. That is not me holding onto the past. THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED!

[Urgent Power]

Spuffy lovers every where need to realize one thing. Both Angel and Buffy have grown through out the years and been through things and experienced life and even after everything that has happened they still end up coming together in the end. No matter what happens they both will have a place for each other in their hearts. That is not me holding onto the past. THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED!

Um... when did it happen exactly?

I agree that they both will always be in each other's hearts, but Buffy didn't choose yet. And in the end she could end up with Spike.

[pernilleborup]

Plus it's clearly stated that she hasn't chosen (hint Buffy's naughty nurse dream)

[hannahfngrl26]

What I meant was at the end of S7 when Angel randomly shows up and the first thing they do is smooch. All that chemistry is still totally there even after so much time had gone by. That is what I meant.

[DarkAvenger]

PB: hahahah exactly!!! ;)

well, but she did send him away.. and gave the amulet to spike because he's her real champion :D

[pernilleborup]

What I meant was at the end of S7 when Angel randomly shows up and the first thing they do is smooch. All that chemistry is still totally there even after so much time had gone by. That is what I meant.


Yeah, but have you seen the Angel series? Angel was in love with Cordy....And the kiss was not really anything if you look at the big picture. Buffy said herself, it was hello. They will always have love for each other, but not love like they had. She sent Angel away, and chose to give Spike the amulet. Saying she needed a second front was to not having the upcoming fight there would be if she brought Angel along.

[hannahfngrl26]

I have decided that arguments aside I will just continue to live with the hope that one day Angel and Buffy will be together again. I have pretty much pictured it hundreds of thousands of times so I think that will work for now :)

[Urgent Power]

And what does she do afterwards? Answer: she tells him she's not ready, she wants him gone, then she goes to Spike to spend the night with him, telling him the kiss was a hello. They spend the night together, what could have been the almost last night on earth. Then she tells him she loves him, and this line along with "Spike", is the last thing Buffy says on the show. So... it's much more of a Spuffy ending.

[pernilleborup]

And what does she do afterwards? Answer: she tells him she's not ready, she wants him gone, then she goes to Spike to spend the night with him, telling him the kiss was a hello. They spend the night together, what could have been the almost last night on earth. Then she tells him she loves him, and this line along with "Spike", is the last thing Buffy says on the show. So... it's much more of a Spuffy ending.


Just going to say that, but you must have read my mind ;)

Angel isn't the same guy as he was when he started, and that counts too...

[hannahfngrl26]

I guess only time will tell. Ug, I wish Joss would bring the show back in some fashion. Cartoon or live action I could really not give a crap.

[Dlou444]

*sneaks in with cans of spray paint and crosses out the BANGEL part in in black paint and sprays SPUFFY in red over it*

[pernilleborup]

*sneaks in with can of spray paint and crosses out the BANGEL part in in black paint and sprays SPUFFY in red over it*


*Assisting with banners and stickers*

[hannahfngrl26]

*Cleans up spray praint to return Bangel to its original luster and takes down all the ugly Spuffy banners and stickers*

[pernilleborup]

*calls for the Spuffies around BB and they all meet up with permanent markers, and really sticky stickers.*

CHAAAAAAAARGE!

[hannahfngrl26]

Oh man this is soooooo uncool. I am like the lone Bangel in here right now. Help fellow Bangels!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pernilleborup]

(melody from Hush)

Can't get any help
Better start to cry
The Spuffy army's coming by
Can't call to mom
she's in the army too
better join the group
We're coming for you

[hannahfngrl26]

That is creepy. Not very nice :( Now I am totally freaked out!!!

[Relic]

One thing that always got to me was when Angel came back from hell, and was so confused that he was basically a snarling animal that probably did not even remember how to go number two in a civilized way, what did he remember?

Buffy.

It all ended up coming back to him, how to dress and behave, and poop like a person, but there was one part of him that never truely left... even when he was in hell. His memory of her. I've heard it said "Of course he remebers her, thats the last thing he saw before he was sent to hell by what she did." To which I answer, And yet he still loves her, didn't try to eat her, didn't act like an angry beat animal.

Now, Buffy has loved both Spike and Angel and I won't pick one camp over the other, But Angel's love for Buffy outlasting hells PTSD that basically animalized him...well if not for Buffy, would Angel have ever even regained his humanity... even with a soul...after going through what he must have went through? pretty freakin amazing.

Thats what..in part...has made me really appreciate what they had/have/whatever (I don't know, so don't tell me! :) )

We now return you to the riot that is the friendly rivalry of who loves who more. ;)

[DarkAvenger]

what?? the only thing he remembered was buffy? well, duh he was in love with her back then! He was still in lvoe with her in season 3! that doesnt prove anything! then angel left and they moved on !!

[Relic]

I won't argue about the moving on, but for the people who say that Buffy/Angel was a high school love, I'd counter that Angel wasn't actually a teenager in love, but actually more an adult. Plus remembering how much you love someone when you can't even remember how to poop right? Kinda a big deal.

As an adult, it was he who called it off because he did not want to hurt Buffy by their abnormal relationship. Even though it hurt him and her, he felt that it was the best thing for her. That selflessness is strong love.

In the Buffy Spike sense, Spike didn't mind he was a vampire and she a mortal, untill after he had allready hurt her badly, even then with his pursuit to get a soul (?) he does not mind that their relationship was going to deny her normalcy and children... I'd even go as far as to say he is more like buffy behaved herself when she was with Angel. Perhaps it's the vampire side of him influencing him?

I kind of think it was selfish, I dunno, though, I haven't seen it all so i hardly pretend to know it all.

[hannahfngrl26]

Additionally Spike and Buffy are alike. He brought out her "dark" side because he was already dark.

Edit:

*sighs* *takes a look around and realizes she is all by herself* *wonders where everyone has gone*

[white avenger]

Here's another one for you:

"The thing about Buffy and Spike is they understand each other on a level that nobody else does. They've both lived a hundred lives and I think there's a connection there that we will see evolve over the next couple of years where she realizes that he really is someone that she can trust, someone that's a companion to her and someone that really understands her unlike anybody else." -Sarah Michelle Gellar


Notice that ",,,unlike ANYBODY else." Either that includes Ol' Broody or she considers him "nobody." Take your pick.

[Keanoite]

This just in...every Spuffy here is a crazy person!


Anyone who thinks Buffy and Angel are over is either seriously deluded or watching a different show.It was made blatantly clear in the season 7 finale that they are not over, not by a long shot. If ever there was an oppertunity to end Bangel it was then. The writers could so easily have left Angel go without Buffy ever saying a word to him, but they didn't. Instead she told him the same thing that she told him 5 years before...when she looks to her future he is in it, he is her future.

This is what Joss had to say about the finale:

"It was important for David to come and do [the Buffy finale], which is really sweet considering he's all over the end of Angel at the same time. It means a lot to me and Sarah and David and the writing staff as storytellers, because Angel was there from the beginning and because their relationship transcends everything. "- About the finale of BtVs



Both the writers and actors alike share the same sentiment:

Buffy is the One True One. The Meant To Be. In my bones, I feel like all roads lead back to her for Angel." - Tim Minear


"I think we've established that his one true love is Buffy, obviously." - David Boreanaz

"Angel is Buffy's true love. It will always be Angel." - Sarah Michelle Gellar

Joss Whedon said on Bangel: "It's an eternal love, don't get me wrong; I realize that."


At it's best Spuffy is a great friendship but like Buffy says, she doesn't see a future with him. If any of these relationships are over it's Spuffy.

Bangel is forever...it's the whole point.

[DarkAvenger]

WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S OVER! Angel loved Cordy and Buffy spike! get over it!

[Keanoite]

I think you'll find that "you people" are the ones that don't understand. Angel cared about Cordy and Buffy cared about Spike but when all is said and done it is Bangel that remains a constant force in the verse, they always come to back to eachother.

Spuffy never was portrayed as soulmates, as something that should or would last forever...any notions you have of that are just that...notions!

[hannahfngrl26]

Perhaps what one needs to get over is that i Spike was nothing more than a bump in the road to Angel for Buffy :)

[Urgent Power]

You Bangels are in serious denial...

[Keanoite]

^^ Not much of an argument...what are we in denial of exactly? Prove us wrong...

[hannahfngrl26]

No prove, that is impossible. No one knows how this will turn out. Only time will tell but you all know where I am leaning.

[DarkAvenger]

did you read WA's posts?? ......

[hannahfngrl26]

Fine fine, I'm right and your wrong

:)

[white avenger]

Buffy loves them both. She loves them both so strongly that she will never be able to choose between Angel and Spike, which is the real reason that she sent Angel back to LA in "Chosen." She's never going to permanently choose between th two, and we're all going to go on arguing about this until the sun burns out and the oceans dry up. Joss, evil man that he is, has planned it that way, simply because he enjoys torturing his devoted fans by offering them little tidbits of hope, then snatching them away again. We have only one hope, one final last act of defiance left open to us, an option with no more real chance of success than Angel and the others had in that alley in the rain. A mere gesture, a moment of defiance just to show that we won't go down without a fight.

Everybody stand up, extend the middle finger of whichever hand you might prefer, and shout in one deafening roar, so loud that it shakes the very foundations of Mutant Enemy...all together now...SPUFFY FOREVER!!!!!

That'll teach him.

[palabravampiress]

Umm... I was really invested in Buffy and Angel during that phase of the show. I kind of always thought of Angel as a waypoint on the trail to Xander, though. I mean, Angel's that guy that you fall for in high school: the handsome, broody, slightly older, looks good in black, takes you to the prom, turns into a stranger in the morning kind of guy. He's the first person in her life who can understand what it's like to be a superhero. He's her first love, and it's the Romeo-and-Juliet kind of love for which you pine when you're in high school, too. But everyone knows the geeky-yet-loyal best friend should win over the hot broody guy in the end (unless you're watching Pretty in Pink; poor Duckie!). But that is neither here nor there.

From day 1, I liked the way the Bangel relationship helped Buffy to really grow into her calling. The season 2 story in which she has to break her own heart in order to save the world is fabulous. I think it really let Buffy grow as a person and as a slayer. At its heart, the Angel and Buffy relationship painted vampire and slayer as they are: as two sides of the same coin. They're always connected, yet always separated. They're different faces of the same entity. They're dependent upon one another, yet naturally in conflict. So on that level, it was a great early manifestation of a theme that would be explored throughout the show: the meaning and nature of Buffy's slayerness and its connection to vampires and darkness. Besides, the high school crowd always goes for the forbidden romance, so there are ratings to consider. I also think the relationship gave her confidence to face future foes. If she could face a foe she loved, then surely she could also face down a big bad against whom she had no personal beef. All in all, it was great. I really liked the first two seasons of Bangel (minus the first couple of episodes in which Angel was just a creepy stalker guy). Bangel definitely had its purpose and made for some great TV. Also, it gave us Angelus, and I love Angelus.

That said, I'm not in the first love forever camp. As time passed, the relationship developed some serious issues -- especially in season 3. I would give Bangel a chance if they ever seriously got together and tried to work out those issues, but so far, they never seem to be able to do that. As Wes and Cordy indicate in their melodramatic little skit explaining Buffy and Angel, the relationship keeps stalling on a couple of central points. It's on an endless loop. They love each other, but they can't be together. The fate of the world hangs in the balance. Oh, the pain! Honestly, I was getting bored of all of this melodrama by season 3 of Buffy. I'm glad both characters moved on. Like all of the relationships on the show, Bangel wasn't the plot or the character development. BtVS wasn't that kind of show. It wasn't about who gets the girl. Instead, it was about the normal girl who saves the world. If BtVS were about true love, then sure, let Bangel have their endless love. But Bangel just stalls the plot and character development in an endless loop and distracts us all from the things that, on this show, matter more than true love. BtVS has the guts to end popular pairings when the plot and character development so demand. Buffy and Angel were true love. They were first love. They may always have feelings for each other. But BtVS isn't solely or mainly about all of that mushy stuff, so I'm glad the show had the guts to end it and move on. Bangel was a great early romance for Buffy, but I'm glad we didn't have to sit through the same endless love story that plays out on every other show just to honor the Bangel love. I'm glad Joss and co. gave us something different. In fact, I think that makes Bangel all that much more worth appreciating.

[MSchett]

Great post palabra! I 100% agree (except for the Bander part)! Bangel woulda gotten stale had it lasted much longer and I believe BTVS wouldn't have made it to 7 seasons without all the emotional conflict...(I was lucky that Xanya lasted that long) The only way Joss could keep it from getting old is to elude to something until the very end and with the end can come the closer. Whether that will be Spike or Angel is anyone's guess...

[palabravampiress]

^ Eh. You don't have to agree with the Bander part. I'm in the minority on that one and I know it. Besides, that's just a personal preference on my part. As long as she's happy and the show doesn't become all about the heroine living happily ever after with the resident dreamboat (insert your favorite love interest here), then I'll be satisfied. I mean, that's what's so cool about Bangel. It may be true love, but it's not all-encompassing. Both characters are fully realized individuals on their own. There is a Buffy without Angel and an Angel without Buffy. The same can't be said for a lot of other TV couples.

[DrusillaRox]

I lik Bangel - and i know Bangelxx will agree with me besides, the spuffy relationship was spikes obession mixed with buffys insecurities after being pulled from heaven

[white avenger]

^ Eh. You don't have to agree with the Bander part. I'm in the minority on that one and I know it. Besides, that's just a personal preference on my part. As long as she's happy and the show doesn't become all about the heroine living happily ever after with the resident dreamboat (insert your favorite love interest here), then I'll be satisfied. I mean, that's what's so cool about Bangel. It may be true love, but it's not all-encompassing. Both characters are fully realized individuals on their own. There is a Buffy without Angel and an Angel without Buffy. The same can't be said for a lot of other TV couples.


When you get right down to it, it's just personal preference for all of us, whether we be Bangel, Spuffy, Bander, Fuffy, Billow, Batsu, or even MacBuffy (they're a small group, but they're really hoping for Buffy Summers/Duncan Macleod action some day) and that's the beauty of our situation here. With no real resolution, we can all hang onto our hopes and have a lot of fun arguing with our friends about the merits of each ship. If this was called the Bangel Boards or the Spuffy Boards, we would all eventually wind up like Vamp Willow: "Bored now..." There's something to be said for Buffy's "cookie dough" analogy: cookies come in lots of different flavors, and we all have our favorites, but they're all good.

(And the more I think about it, the more I begin to believe that Duncan Macleod might really make a helluva demon fighter, rogue or not.)

[DrusillaRox]

About the season 8 thing - issue he's in L.A fighting

[Veyron]

Oh come on Banglers...

Q. Do you REALLY think that if Angel hadn't of had a soul when he met Buffy in the first place he'd of gone to all the trouble to change himself to such a degree to impress her?
A. No way - not as long as people have holes in their backsides - Angelus, and let's not forget that that's who he would have been, not Angel, but Angelus, wouldn't have looked twice at Buffy apart from as lunch.

Q. Do you really think that he'd of undergone trials to get his soul back to please her and to prove to her that he'd changed?
A. Spike - already an evil undead creature without a soul goes and does all of those things to win the heart of the woman he loves and wants to be with did. Angelus wouldn't have even given the idea of going to get his soul back a nanoseconds worth of thought.

Q. Do you really think that Angel would be Angel and not Angelus?
A. Angelus wreaked havoc over more than half of Europe and then started on the rest of the world - nuff said.

Because I don't - Angelus could never love a slayer, he'd of fought to the death with her - he might have won, he might not, but Angelus would never, ever have fallen head over heels in love with a slayer.

So, for the 3rd and hopefully final time, you Bangle lovers are done. Give it up already!

[pernilleborup]

Actually I don't think Angelus would have fought the slayer.. He never did it. He was more the type of vampire who stayed away from obvious danger to him and the gang. That's why he gets so pissed at Spike in Fool for Love in the flash back.
Yes Angelus is evil, but he also knows where NOT to go if you want fun anf mayham

[Fake Shemp]

He did kill in broad sight remember the servant girl. He was poncy tho.

[pernilleborup]

Forgot about her :/
Well anyways; Angelus has never killed a slayer, but..Oh our lil' William has :D

[Fake Shemp]

I wasnt suggesting remoltey it was the same... just that he loved the hunt. And spike has killed more than one, go our little blondie bear!

[pernilleborup]

He's such a good boy.. We should give him a treat.. A nummy treat!

*looks for Xander*

[Veyron]

Now this is what I'm talking about!

Spuffies takin' the arguement over Spuffydom to the Banglers!

YAY us!

[Fake Shemp]

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8926/tnpleasedze8.jpg nummy treats!

[pernilleborup]

PEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fake Shemp]

WHERE!? http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2817/tnawakeqc3.jpg

[Keanoite]

Ok people, this thread is all a bit of fun but lets back on track now please, we try and keep the one word posts for Slaying Practice.

[Veyron]

Keanoite agrees: "This post proves nothing other than you really like Spike. Your hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship Bangel has. Spike having done these things doesn't in any way make Buffy care for him more."

Ha! You really are on the run Keanoite after this comment. My hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship? You know as well as I do that that's no reply - you know that I've hit the stake right on the head and have driven it deep into the heart of your (Bangel's) arguement.

You ALL know that without a soul Angel would be just another murderous vamp and you can't handle it. You guys are beaten, face it.

There's no riposte that you can come back with on this one. Poo-pooing my hypothetical questions is your way of trying, and failing to keep the discussion, war, call it what you want alive - but you've failed.

There can be no more discussion. Buffy and Spike is the REAL relationship in the buffyverse as Angelus and Buffy just wouldn't have gotten along, and as we all know Spike is the only one who earned his soul... Angelus' soul was restored due to a curse, not love.

[Fake Shemp]

even with a soul Angel was just moany about it.. geez we apparently have souls... still think its all made up but whatever.. and we dont feel guilty about every little thing, ok so he killed but he's a vamp... its what they do. *rolls eyes* even after he got his soul he tried to continue being with darla and the fang gang. Spike went out for his soul, and was sorta on the good side anyways without it. A soul isnt the be all and end all.

[MSchett]

Theres no proof that Spike wouldnt have done the same thing if he'd lost his soul again... So saying Angelus would kill her is beside the point...

[Veyron]

How is besides the point? Explain please. Spike didn't have a soul when he fell in love with Buffy.

[Fake Shemp]

huh? he loved her without a soul.... and thats why the rape thing is so important.. even if he didnt have a chip and a soul he wouldnt hurt her now.

Whereas angelus would kill jenny, some fish... and try to send the whole world to hell, and only xander knew it was a good idea to stop him. (and spike a little too, but only so he could get dru back... which again with the love)

[MSchett]

Do you really think Spike wouldn't have killed Willow and Xander had he been able too?

[Fake Shemp]

not sure what that has to do with buffy too much... but no i dont... not now, he had a like hate realationship with them all, and i really dont think he would. he was part of them.

[littlewilly]

Spike would have killed Buffy in Out of my mind and Willow in The Initiative

[white avenger]

At the risk of alienating some of my fellow Spuffies, it seems to me that what Angelus or evil pre-Buffy Spike did or didn't do is really irrelevant to this debate/argument/discussion/whatever. We have three main facts. 1)Angel was in love with Buffy. 2)Spike was in love with Buffy. (Anything before that point is irrelevant. Both vampires are former evil, murderous, blood sucking fiends. There can be no argument about that) And finally, 3)Buffy loved both of them. I think that we can all agree on those facts. Where we differ is in our opinion of just which man Buffy belongs with.

I believe that Buffy belongs with Spike. I think that he worked harder to be the kind of man that she could love than Angel ever did or perhaps even could have. By Buffy's own statement, Spike risked everything: his welfare, his sanity, his very existence to become the kind of man worthy of Buffy's love, accomplishing something that, as far as we know within the confines of the show, had never been done before. He willingly fought and suffered to regain his soul. In doing that, he proved himself more worthy of her love than Angel ever could. He EARNED her trust, her respect, and her love. I know that there are those here who will say that love is seldom a thing that can be "earned," but instead something that defies all logic, something that really has no reason or rhyme, something that simply is or isn't. The term "soulmate" keeps coming up on both sides of the argument, but I seriously doubt that any two of us could agree on just exactly what that term actually means. The Romeo and Juliette love at first sight argument could apply to both men, because each in their own way was attracted to Buffy from the first moment that they laid eyes on her. She, however, felt no such instant attraction for either of them, and if only the amount of time elapsed from the time that she realized that each man was a vampire WITH A SOUL is considered, she might have actually begun to have feelings for Spike sooner than she did Angel.

It's all a guessing game if and until Joss decides to give us the final absolute answer, and as for me, I guess I'll stick with my belief. Spike earned Buffy's love, and he is the most deserving of it. So, for me, it's Spuffy forever.

[Keanoite]

Keanoite agrees: "This post proves nothing other than you really like Spike. Your hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship Bangel has. Spike having done these things doesn't in any way make Buffy care for him more."

Ha! You really are on the run Keanoite after this comment. My hypothetical questions take nothing away from the actual relationship? You know as well as I do that that's no reply - you know that I've hit the stake right on the head and have driven it deep into the heart of your (Bangel's) arguement.

You ALL know that without a soul Angel would be just another murderous vamp and you can't handle it. You guys are beaten, face it.

There's no riposte that you can come back with on this one. Poo-pooing my hypothetical questions is your way of trying, and failing to keep the discussion, war, call it what you want alive - but you've failed.

There can be no more discussion. Buffy and Spike is the REAL relationship in the buffyverse as Angelus and Buffy just wouldn't have gotten along, and as we all know Spike is the only one who earned his soul... Angelus' soul was restored due to a curse, not love.

You see here's the thing, we weren't discussing who was the worst/best vampire, we weren't discussing who was the better man, we weren't even discussing who deserves their soul the most we were discussing the merits of Bangel over Spuffy. That's why your points were totally irrelevent, they belong in a totally different thread.

Since we're on the topic can I ask what Angelus has to do with Bangel at all? He and Buffy didn't have a romantic relationship. I really don't understand how him not falling all over Buffy somehow makes Spike her one true love?

Personally I don't really understand how anyone could claim Spike as her soulmate yada yada yada when not once on the show was an utterance even close to that made. It's a total fan wank.

WA is right we won't have answer to this question until Joss decides we need to know but with writers consistently saying that Buffy and Angel will/should end up together I'm happy to wait it out. So Spuffies sprout on all you like, might as well make the most if while you can.

[Airam]

Well, despite being fully on the Spuffy love train, I agree with you that for the merits of this thead bringing up hypothetical points of how Angelus might have acted (even if those points are right on the money) is irrelevant.


Since we're on the topic can I ask what Angelus has to do with Bangel at all? He and Buffy didn't have a romantic relationship. I really don't understand how him not falling all over Buffy somehow makes Spike her one true love?


...but since you posed this question... I will say that that is the biggest level where Spike and Angel differ. Spike is Spike, no alter-evil-ego, he is the same, personality wise, souled as he was unsouled. We've been trained to accept, on the other hand, that Angel and Angelus are two completely different people. Thats something I find really difficult to accept though. It is an unfair double standard IMO. I think Angelus very much has to do with Bangel because Angel and Angelus are one and the same. At the end of the day Angelus is a part of Angel all the time even if he is dormant, and so, Angelus and Buffy did have a romantic relationship. And I think that is where it becomes relevant, that is where their relationship becomes unstable. It is always possible for Angel to revert back to Angelus and as soon as that were to happen it would mean the end of Bangel. Its like a black cloud constantly looming. She never has to worry about a change that drastic with Spike. So especially with Spike presently being souled its something that in the long run would make a lasting relationship with Spike much more solid. And since we are pretty much in consensus that she does love them both, this fact would make her choice all the simpler.

[pernilleborup]

I think I'm going to let something I have in my mind out:

(Yes, if Spike had been able to do it, he'd had killed Willow and Xander. Hello, evil!)

I do also believe that if Spike had gotten his chip out in Out of my mind, he'd killed Buffy. No doubts. But when it failed yet again, he ended up realizing that his obsession with the slayer was beyond normal "I want you 6 feet under me" obsession.
Spike have always had a slight crush on Buffy. The number of times he could have killed her, but chose not to. He have had many moments with lots of time to kill her, but he didn't. By keeping an eye on Buffy, figuring her moves, and quirks, he ended up liking her. The reason why he didn't want to admit it was because of Drusilla, and the fact. they were enemies. He was preventing himself from seeing the truth till the cup was full, and he couldn't deny it anymore.

rest is history

[white avenger]

Spike have always had a slight crush on Buffy. The number of times he could have killed her, but chose not to. He have had many moments with lots of time to kill her, but he didn't. By keeping an eye on Buffy, figuring her moves, and quirks, he ended up liking her. The reason why he didn't want to admit it was because of Drusilla, and the fact. they were enemies. He was preventing himself from seeing the truth till the cup was full, and he couldn't deny it anymore.

rest is history



As an actor, I right away played an attraction to Buffy, even though Spike was fully in love with Drusilla. There was a scene, my very first day of shooting, where I was hunting Buffy, not to fight with her, but just to observe her and see what her fighting style was. And I'm looking at her in the Bronze and I'm kind of walking through the crowd, watching her dance, and there was something both very much of a hunter - "I'm going to kill you" - but there's also heavy sexual undercurrent, and that just came off the day (laughs) watching Sarah dance, really. But, you know, Spike was the perfect boyfriend, so he would never go beyond that. But there was that attraction immediately, and by the time we get to Season 4, it's developing. -- James Marsters



I don't know if it was planned that way from the first or someone just noticed how Sarah and James worked so well together and just thought that it might be something interesting to explore, but, whatever it was, it obviously worked quite well.

[pernilleborup]

Is that like an agreemend to my post or what? :D I can't really tell..

Did James really say that? hehe

[white avenger]

That web address is impossible. I tried it twice, and it came out the same way both times. Anyhow, yes, James DID say that, even if you just have to take my word for it. (What? You think I'd lie about something as important as Spuffy?)

[pernilleborup]

That web address is impossible. I tried it twice, and it came out the same way both times. Anyhow, yes, James DID say that, even if you just have to take my word for it. (What? You think I'd lie about something as important as Spuffy?)

I am ashamed to even think it... I am sorry.. I should know you are just as loyal as any good Spuffy lover in here!

*gives a cookies as an apology*

[Veyron]

MSchett - nice avoidance of the reply to your previous post. Answering a question with a question - tut tut.. didn't you learn anything at school?

Angelus having a soul is the whole point, and the only point that matters - if it weren't for the cursed soul none of Angel would have ever happened.

As for Spike, well, he is an evil demon, as are ALL vamps, of course he would have killed any member of the Scoobies given half a chance, so would you if you were a vamp, so would any of us.

The fact that he tried and succeeded to reform himself was a concious decision that Spike made himself - the chip was just a deciding factor. Spike regained his soul due to hard work and dedication - Angel got his because he fed on the wrong people and got caught doing it.

[Keanoite]

MSchett - nice avoidance of the reply to your previous post. Answering a question with a question - tut tut.. didn't you learn anything at school?

Angelus having a soul is the whole point, and the only point that matters - if it weren't for the cursed soul none of Angel would have ever happened.

As for Spike, well, he is an evil demon, as are ALL vamps, of course he would have killed any member of the Scoobies given half a chance, so would you if you were a vamp, so would any of us.

The fact that he tried and succeeded to reform himself was a concious decision that Spike made himself - the chip was just a deciding factor. Spike regained his soul due to hard work and dedication - Angel got his because he fed on the wrong people and got caught doing it.

But Angel did get a soul so once again what is your point?

And can I just clear up one thing? It's ok for Spike to be and "evil demon" and kill the Scoobies but not for Angel? What's good for one is good for another. The double standards here are ridiculous.

As far as this whole Spike working for his soul, keep in mind that it is extremely likely that Spike wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for Angel. Angel set the precedent. Vampires didn't get souls until he was cursed. You're right in saying that he really didn't do much of anything until he met Buffy but the exact same can be said for Spike. Also, Spike had Buffy to help him along the truly hoffific first few months, if he hadn't had Buffy God only knows what would have happened.

It's possible Spike may never have gotten a soul if Angel hadn't been cursed. In fact I think it is an almost given that Spike would never had any sort of relationship with Buffy if Angel hadn't be cursed. Angel showed Buffy that not all demons are evil, that there can be a man behind the beast.

If it wasn't for Angel Spike wouldn't have any reason to see Buffy as anything more than his next victim and she would never see him as anything but dust.

I still don't get what this has to do with the thread though? It really is a totally different topic.

[Airam]

*pouts* I posted last night in response to your question, "Since we're on the topic can I ask what Angelus has to do with Bangel at all?" And I think it completely got overlooked cause it was the very last post of the previous page (post #165 (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showpost.php?p=565657&postcount=165)). I thought I made a really good point regarding what you're just talking about here again, especially the whole double standard thing, so i'm thinking you somehow skipped past my post, I'm not sure. But anyway I will add that, and it goes along with my previous post, in regards to this statement:
And can I just clear up one thing? It's ok for Spike to be and "evil demon" and kill the Scoobies but not for Angel? What's good for one is good for another. The double standards here are ridiculous.

I agree that the double standards are ridiculous but the double standard here is with Spike IMO not Angel, I went into much detail to back that up in my last post. Spike never killed any of the scoobies, Angel/Angelus did. Spike might have tried half heartedly to kill them but it was never "okay" especially not in the eyes of Buffy or any of the Scoobies. It was however kinda "okay" when Angel did kill Jenny and torture Giles because he had the very convinient excuse that it was Angelus, not him, that did those things. As if Angelus and Angel aren't and always have been the same person!

[Keanoite]

Airam, I read your two posts (sorry about that hun, I didn't see the first one:)) and I'm not sure if I fully agree with you.

Angel and Angelus are sharing the same body and memories but I don't think they are as closely linked as unsouled Spike and souled Spike. To me it seems the vampire you become is dictated by the person you have been. William was a gentle soul, when he was changed of course he took on all the aspects of the demon but he could still somehow feel emotions the way he used to. He still cared about his mother, he loved Dru and Buffy. Hell he even loved Angel.

Liam is a totally different kettle of fish. He was as debauched a rake as you were likely to find in Ireland and England at the time. He cared little for anything but himself, or maybe he didn't aloow himself to care. Howsever when he turned he continued to be as unfeeling as his former self but now was an absolute brute. Murdered his family, ransacked his village. There is no comparison to him and Angel.

I don't want to go as far as to say that they are two different people but rather that Angelus is who Angel was, in the same light that William the Bloody is who Spike was. Buffy couldn't love unsouled Spike nor could she love Angelus but she could see the difference in the two and contiued to love Angel throughout the entire series knowing that they weren't one in the same, just as she believed there was a difference between chipped Spike and souled Spike.

If there wasn't distinctions between the demon and the man I don't think she would have ever loved either of them.

[Airam]

Liam is a totally different kettle of fish. He was as debauched a rake as you were likely to find in Ireland and England at the time. He cared little for anything but himself, or maybe he didn't aloow himself to care. Howsever when he turned he continued to be as unfeeling as his former self but now was an absolute brute. Murdered his family, ransacked his village. There is no comparison to him and Angel.

I don't want to go as far as to say that they are two different people but rather that Angelus is who Angel was, in the same light that William the Bloody is who Spike was.

I was going to ask then why when Angelus was re-ensouled did he not just revert back to Liam, uncaring, selfish, etc.? But thinking about it I think he kind of did. For like 100 years at first he tried to continue on proving himself to Darla and then when that didn't work he just hid in the shadows, living in the sewers not really accepting the soul or trying to figure out what to make of himself with it...not until Buffy anyway. I think the Angel persona really began molding upon meeting Buffy and Whistler and coming to the realization that he could help Buffy, do good, and make his soul mean something. Sure Angelus had his soul forced upon him and it took him FOREVER to come to terms with having it and wanting it, but time is a vampire's friend afterall and i do believe that after everything on Buffy and AtS Angel did earn his soul even if he didn't originally want it....

Ummmm, did I just go off on a tangent defending Angel? :rolleyes0 Er, I mean SPUFFY RULES! lol, no seriously, I was just trying to say I guess that I can see your point about the Liam/Angel/Angelus thing.... and also *ahem* I was sticking up for Angel not Bangel :biggrin:

But yeah we probably did get off track a little huh, this thread is supposed to be a back and forth of Spufy love vs Bangel love. Actually there is a thread to do all this Spike and Angel compare and contrast and its here. (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=40125) :)

Edit:

palabravampiress agrees: I agree -- not that it makes the choice simpler, just that Angelus does have a very strong impact on Bangel.

You're totally right. Simpler was the wrong word choice, it will never be simple for her. Just that yeah the Angelus thing would play a huge part in her coming to her ultimate descision. Like lets say if she were to sit down and make a Pro/Con list on Angel and Spike this would be a plus on Spike's column and a big significant minus on Angel's.

[Keanoite]

I was going to ask then why when Angelus was re-ensouled did he not just revert back to Liam, uncaring, selfish, etc.? But thinking about it I think he kind of did. For like 100 years at first he tried to continue on proving himself to Darla and then when that didn't work he just hid in the shadows, living in the sewers not really accepting the soul or trying to figure out what to make of himself with it...not until Buffy anyway. I think the Angel persona really began molding upon meeting Buffy and Whistler and coming to the realization that he could help Buffy, do good, and make his soul mean something. Sure Angelus had his soul forced upon him and it took him FOREVER to come to terms with having it and wanting it, but time is a vampire's friend afterall and i do believe that after everything on Buffy and AtS Angel did earn his soul even if he didn't originally want it....

Ummmm, did I just go off on a tangent defending Angel? :rolleyes0 Er, I mean SPUFFY RULES! lol, no seriously, I was just trying to say I guess that I can see your point about the Liam/Angel/Angelus thing.... and also *ahem* I was sticking up for Angel not Bangel :biggrin:

But yeah we probably did get off track a little huh, this thread is supposed to be a back and forth of Spufy love vs Bangel love. Actually there is a thread to do all this Spike and Angel compare and contrast and its here. (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=40125) :)

Edit:



You're totally right. Simpler was the wrong word choice, it will never be simple for her. Just that yeah the Angelus thing would play a huge part in her coming to her ultimate descision. Like lets say if she were to sit down and make a Pro/Con list on Angel and Spike this would be a plus on Spike's column and a big significant minus on Angel's.


LMAO! You soooo backed up Bangel there! lol Ok I'm joking but your right, this topic is not what this thread was set up for so lets all keep it Bangel vs Spuffy guys. If there is something else you want to discuss check to see if we have an active thread and if not then start one.

[palabravampiress]

^ I don't even think it's supposed to be Bangel vs. Spuffy. I mean, I can see where that comes into play, but I thought it was mainly supposed to be a positive Bangel thread. That's why I kept Spuffy out of my post. Both pairings are well-written, well-acted, and worthy of praise. Sure, it's human nature to like one more than the other, but not every Bangel or Spuffy thread must by default turn into a shipper war. It's one thing to own your bias (like I did when I said I always kinda thought Xander should get the cookies) or to praise Bangel by juxtaposing a Bangel event with a Spuffy event, but I'm not even sure this is the right thread for an all out shipper war.

[Keanoite]

^^ PV your right this thread was never intended to be a Bangel vs Spuffy war thread. It seems it nearly always devolves into that though. Maybe with the Spuffy thread we can avoid it form now on.

[Bangelxx]

yes, agreeing here!
this was just supposed to be about bangel...wasn't it? about the GOOD things of bangel.

[white avenger]

Okay, folks, let's try this scenario: Spike, Angel, and Buffy are locked in a room alone. Willow, outside, tries to cast a spell unlocking the door, but, as Willow's spells so often do, it goes wrong, "unlocking" the soul of both vampires. Buffy is locked in a room alone with two normal, soul-less blood vampires, Angelus and Spike. Which one does she have to stake, or stake first, and why?

That has nothing to do with the discussion above, I just thought that it would be an interesting question.

See you later...

Hash it out among yourselves, I've gotta go meet my wife for lunch. See you later...

[pernilleborup]

Assuming both vampires still loves her before the spell...Angelus is dusted.

[DarkAvenger]

ahaha Buffy'd stake Angelus of course!!!!

[white avenger]

I'M SORRY FOLKS!!!!!

My "Buffy Staking Angel Or Spike" scenario was supposed to be an entirely thread. I didn't realize what I had done until I was halfway through my salad.

Once again, my apologies to everyone here, especially Miss K, because this is her thread, and we're only guests here.

[Veyron]

Ahem.. By "do" I meant stake.. sorry for any confusion there.

[pernilleborup]

Veryon! I get what you mean... ;D

[Kana]

I didn't really know where to put this but...

I was talking to my brother last night and one of the things he couldn't accept is how Angel was able to fall in love with Buffy. He understood more how Darla would understand it, an older man being turned on by the school girl/cheerleader thing, but of course Angel maintained it was more than that. Haven't got oogles of time but... Do you find it difficult to understand how Angel can have a mature love that transcends adulthood for an adolescent who in her own words has yet to mature? This isn't so much focusing on Bangel but more the relationship from Angel's perspective.

[randiann]

Spike is Spike, no alter-evil-ego, he is the same, personality wise, souled as he was unsouled. ... So especially with Spike presently being souled its something that in the long run would make a lasting relationship with Spike much more solid. And since we are pretty much in consensus that she does love them both, this fact would make her choice all the simpler.

But didn't Spike try to rape Buffy in season 6? By this arguement Buffy would have to worry about these kind of actions even when Spike has a soul. Therefore Spuffy = NO.

[hannahfngrl26]

This conversation got way over my head. Great, now I am going to be stuck with serious thoughts all day. :)

[Dlou444]

Oh WHEN does 200 posts come so the thread can DIE?
Then we can start the SPUFFY APPRECIATION thread!

[hannahfngrl26]

Bangel appreciation will never die!!!

[Airam]

But didn't Spike try to rape Buffy in season 6? By this arguement Buffy would have to worry about these kind of actions even when Spike has a soul. Therefore Spuffy = NO.

Okay the rape thing again.... well I posted my views on all that recently here (http://www.buffy-boards.com/showpost.php?p=566114&postcount=90) so I won't go into it all again. But essentially the point is that Buffy NEVER again has to worry about Spike taking that kind of action against her. That was the lowest of the low point that Spike reached, well in relation to him and Buffy anyway. And because he did that and felt such extreme remorse and regret about it, realized how wrong it was even without a soul, THAT is why he went and got the soul. So no, I can with full certainty say that Buffy NEVER EVER has to worry about Spike doing anything like that ever again. When Angel is Angelus, on the other hand, he has never had the clarity to feel even the tiniest amount of remorse for anything he does, quite the opposite in fact, he revels in it. It takes the soul for Angel to see right and wrong, he can only achieve that kind of clarity when the soul is in the forefront, it not any kind of inner strength that Angel possesses. Whereas Spike, despite his demon, had the inner strength to get to the point of clarity that told him right from wrong and he went and did something about it. Spike controlled his demon and now its a non issue. Angel hasn't yet figured out how to get that control and so Angelus is always this looming black cloud. That's what I meant when I said that a relationship with Spike over Angel would be more stable and solid.

[pernilleborup]

Here again with the rape thing...Is that all you can throw against us? I mean COME ON!
It's like, everytime you don't have anything to get back with you just go "Well...Uhm....Spike tried to rape her! So bleh on you!"

1. Spike was still evil! Soulless= evil (Sureley you should know that since half of your ship includes a crazy and evil Angelus!)

2. Buffy forgave him! Yeah she did, go check the 7th season again!

3. Don't make us go all Angelousy on your asses! Spike with no soul loved Buffy, Angel with a soul loved Buffy...Angel without a soul pretty much wanted her...for dinner. No love in that. except for the love of a good meal!

[hannahfngrl26]

I know Angelus was evil but in his own evil, sick, twisted way he wanted her just as much as he did all soulful. It was just a different kind of want :)

[pernilleborup]

I know Angelus was evil but in his own evil, sick, twisted way he wanted her just as much as he did all soulful. It was just a different kind of want :)

Yeah...wanted her dead

[hannahfngrl26]

Oh he wanted her more than dead if you know what I mean. Death would most likely be an unfortunate side effect but she is the slayer so I think she will be okay. He was obsessed her with much like Spike became.

[pernilleborup]

Doubt that... Angelus is disgusted by the fact he liked her. In the episode "I only have eyes for you", Dru asks him what happened, and he answers (annoyed and pissed off) "Love"

Angelus didn't like Buffy at all. He like seeing her in pain though. Causing those around her pain and misery, so she would be in pain. And in the end, he would end her!
Angelus isn't like Spike. When he is evil, he is evil! There is no "sometimes I'm a pretty nice guy" only wishes of pure evil. Spike was had the attidude, but was not a pure bad boy. He watches soaps, and cries when he's upset. Angelus would never have fallen in love with Buffy if he had crossed her way, and had no soul forged on him.
Angelus loves nobody

[Natalie]

Does anyone have any good Buffy&Angel caps/pics?
Thaaanks. (:

[randiann]

Here again with the rape thing...Is that all you can throw against us? I mean COME ON!
It's like, everytime you don't have anything to get back with you just go "Well...Uhm....Spike tried to rape her! So bleh on you!"

1. Spike was still evil! Soulless= evil (Sureley you should know that since half of your ship includes a crazy and evil Angelus!)



But the arguement was that Spike with a soul was the same as Spike without a soul. Just pointing out the flaw in THAT arguement. Plus Spike is in no way as hot as Angelus, so that makes up for how naughty Angelus is.

Who said a little biting was a bad thing?



And I can throw a whole lot of other things besides just the rape. I was simply pointing out the inconsistancies of that particular arguement.

For example: Buffy admits she was using Spike and didn't love him (I think it was in Entropy? S6)
Was that just her saying that for the hell of it? I don't think so.

[hannahfngrl26]

Doubt that... Angelus is disgusted by the fact he liked her. In the episode "I only have eyes for you", Dru asks him what happened, and he answers (annoyed and pissed off) "Love"

Angelus didn't like Buffy at all. He like seeing her in pain though. Causing those around her pain and misery, so she would be in pain. And in the end, he would end her!
Angelus isn't like Spike. When he is evil, he is evil! There is no "sometimes I'm a pretty nice guy" only wishes of pure evil. Spike was had the attidude, but was not a pure bad boy. He watches soaps, and cries when he's upset. Angelus would never have fallen in love with Buffy if he had crossed her way, and had no soul forged on him.
Angelus loves nobody

You are totally right. The difference between Angelus and Spike is that Spike is a little bitca. Angelus truly was evil when he is soulless like an evil demon should be. Spike started out that way and then slowly became more and more pathetic.

[pernilleborup]

For example: Buffy admits she was using Spike and didn't love him (I think it was in Entropy? S6)
Was that just her saying that for the hell of it? I don't think so.

It was in the episode with Riley...

Very nice come back, but I'll just kick it back:

In Storyteller Buffy asks "Why do everybody in this house think I'm still in love with Spike?"

Was she saying THAT for fun? Doubt it

[randiann]

No I think she was saying that because she was annoyed with how everyone was treating her in regards to that matter. That's why she didn't say "you know, everyone, you are right. I am still in love with Spike."

Remember this scene (goes something like this I'm doing it from memory so give me a break if it's not perfect)
Hellmouth is being destroyed as Spike's wearing the amulet and burning all the ubervamps
Buffy-"I love you"
Spike-"No, you don't. But thanks for saying it"

Even Spike knows Buffy doesn't really love him. I'm not doubting that she did grow to care about him, but it wasn't true love. Bangel is true love. You can tell by all the heartache at the end of I Will Remember You.

[hannahfngrl26]

Agreed, I will remember you is one of the most heart wrenching episodes. It is right up there with The Prom for me as well. To be together and perfect and human and to have it all taken away. I cried for hours like a little bitca. It was awful. Ugh, thats how you know it is true love. True Love is pain!!!!!!

[pernilleborup]

Well the "no you don't" have been discussed a million times. Some says like you and others claim Spike said it so because he didn't want Buffy to stay with him if he had said he loved her too. So it's an enless diskussion

I doubt it's true love. If it's true love, you don't go around and fall in love with others while you wait to be baked/have your cookie. And I can't really say they were faithful to each other....

[hannahfngrl26]

I disagree. People have to grow. Spike was just one of Buffys steps to growing up and living life. That happens to everyone. She gained life experience and moved on. I know I have said this before but really Spike was just one step in Buffys journey to Angel.

[DarkAvenger]

But the arguement was that Spike with a soul was the same as Spike without a soul. Just pointing out the flaw in THAT arguement. Plus Spike is in no way as hot as Angelus, so that makes up for how naughty Angelus is.

Who said a little biting was a bad thing?



And I can throw a whole lot of other things besides just the rape. I was simply pointing out the inconsistancies of that particular arguement.

For example: Buffy admits she was using Spike and didn't love him (I think it was in Entropy? S6)
Was that just her saying that for the hell of it? I don't think so.


First of all: Spike IS hotter than Angelus.
Second: When you want to insult Spike you just say he tried to rape her. It looks like you dont have other things to say in your "defence"

"Who said a little biting was a bad thing??" - urhhh HELLO?? He almost killed her! My god! I think Angel was all "i dont wanna bite you" but then he did it. he could've stopped but he didn't. he kept drinking her blood. how can you say a thing like that??

"For example: Buffy admits she was using Spike and didn't love him (I think it was in Entropy? S6)
Was that just her saying that for the hell of it? I don't think so"

Ok, she admited she didnt love him and she was using spike. And you're saying that she doesnt say things that arent true. So when she said "I love you" that was true. I mean... "Was that just her saying that for the hell of it? I don't think so"

_

"No I think she was saying that because she was annoyed with how everyone was treating her in regards to that matter. That's why she didn't say "you know, everyone, you are right. I am still in love with Spike."

Remember this scene (goes something like this I'm doing it from memory so give me a break if it's not perfect)
Hellmouth is being destroyed as Spike's wearing the amulet and burning all the ubervamps
Buffy-"I love you"
Spike-"No, you don't. But thanks for saying it"

Even Spike knows Buffy doesn't really love him. I'm not doubting that she did grow to care about him, but it wasn't true love. Bangel is true love. You can tell by all the heartache at the end of I Will Remember You."
She meant eexactly what she said. Buffy loved spike.

And about spike saying "no you dont but (...)": Buffy is the one who knows her real feelings. just because spike said she didnt love her it doesnt mean it was true. I mean, how could he know her true feelings? he's not buffy, he doesnt know what she's feeling, thinking.. etc. -_- so what you're saying doesnt make sense.

_

oh, and about IWRY.. that was right after angel left sunnydale. of course she was still in love with him that time. spike wasnt even in love him buffy.. ...

[hannahfngrl26]

Spike is in no way hotter than Angel except maybe in the latter half of Season 5 of Angel but DB is hot again so........

[DarkAvenger]

"I disagree. People have to grow. Spike was just one of Buffys steps to growing up and living life. That happens to everyone. She gained life experience and moved on. I know I have said this before but really Spike was just one step in Buffys journey to Angel."

lol it wasnt spike who was just one of Buffys steps to growing up and living life... i think you meant Angel... :hehe:

Edit:

"Spike is in no way hotter than Angel except maybe in the latter half of Season 5 of Angel but DB is hot again so........"

I didnt say DB wasnt hott. i said JM was hottER!

[hannahfngrl26]

Oh you are sooooo witty. Of course I meants Spike. But yes, to some degree Angel is part of Buffy experiencing life and growing up. The difference is that in my heart at the end of the day Buffy's path will lead her back to Angel. At least that is my hope.

[DarkAvenger]

pff.. sorry.. only in your dreams!

[Dlou444]

Hey! We're at 210 Posts here! And we've proved Bangel is lame, I think the thread as served it's purpose now!

[DarkAvenger]

yes you are right. CONCLUSION OF THE THREAD: "Bangel is lame. Everyone should be a spuffy(er). Buffy doest love angel anymore. buffy loves spike. Spuffy rules".

End of discussion!