Why doesn't Xander feel worse?

[DarklyDreamingDrusilla]

In "Once More With Feeling", which I have watched many a times, we all know that Xander is the one who summoned Sweet. I have always wondered when I watched this episode though, why Xander does not feel worse about what he did. I mean he caused a few innocent deaths through singing/dancing and it does not seem to phase him. And why does Giles not get more upset with him? I mean he was angry at Xander during Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered. So why not know? To add to this if the singing/dancing was truly bothering Xander and when he finds out it is burning people up why does he not fess up? I mean I know that we would not have as many great awesome songs, but still shouldn't he feel bad about it? So what are your thoughts?

[Blondie Bear]

When has Xander ever felt bad for what he's done for more than a few minutes? He gets over his own bad behavior rather quickly. I think he gets away with way more than he ought to in the series.

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

he gets away with it because i guess they think he's pretty much harmless otherwise, since he has no powers or anything. so that it's almost ok for him to mess up more than maybe buffy who knows how responsible she must be? I dunno its just a guess.

I also think part of it in the case of OMWF simply is, they didn't really have time in the episode to harp on it being Xander's fault. I mean, the episode was over the usual amount of minutes anyway so adding in more consequences of even a scene about that just wasn't feasible. They just needed a quick explanation of why things happened the way they did.

[Edmund Blackadder]

See, I never actually got WHY it was Xander.

Just didn't seem right, I mean he called Sweet forth but until he actually says it it just is obvious it isn't his fault - and don't get me wrong, I like Xander but he isn't bright enough to hide it that well.

I just get the feeling the episode was written and Joss initially had Dawn or someone else and in the last moments changed it to Xander.

[Blondie Bear]

I just get the feeling the episode was written and Joss initially had Dawn or someone else and in the last moments changed it to Xander.

It's possible he was all "Oh, crap! How am I going to keep Dawn from becoming an underworld child bride? . . . I know! Xander's an idiot! We'll blame Xander!" :D

[Buffy obsessed fan]

I think it was basically because they'd just found out Buffy was in heaven...and a lot of other revelations were made in that episode, too, they didn't really have time to point fingers and say 'Bad Xander' or whatever. Buffy said she'd been in heaven; Giles wanted to live; Tara found out Willow put a spell on her, adding to the 'Willow uses to much magick theory', So not much time to blaim him.

[sosa lola]

When has Xander ever felt bad for what he's done for more than a few minutes?

Aww, I thought he felt really bad for leaving Anya at the altar. And it stayed for too long, I wanted to yell, "Move on already, Xander!" :lmao:


I think the real reason is that the writers haven't really thought it through, they just made it Xander's fault for the Queen joke. I think if it was about Xander covering up for Dawn, it would have been much better done.

[Blondie Bear]

Aww, I thought he felt really bad for leaving Anya at the altar. And it stayed for too long, I wanted to yell, "Move on already, Xander!" :lmao:


Okay, there's that one, but there were a LOT of other things he pulled--casting spells, lying to Buffy, making rude remarks about Buffy's relationships, etc--that he just kind of brushed off as soon as they were over and never apologized for.

[RogueHunter]

Not to mention that living on the Hellmouth, carelessly discarded toenail clippings could summon demons.
Granted Xander should have known better, but not the brightest bulb in the string.

[bob6666]

the idea to have xander summon sweet is stupid. this must be the easiest demon to summon if xander can. no magic and cant read anythink but english. even if he did do it what he wanted and what he got were to difference things. want help with anya got dead people.

for the writer who said xander get away with a lot.

one spell (to make cordy love him) bad. but willow giles done much worse.
one lie (when many belive was a good think.) ps joss said it was the right think to do.

and smart ass comments. about a angel that was not nice to him and you never see angle think you for saveing buffy life. i train you or anythink like that . ps you never see angel telling buffy all the good thinks xanders does.

and spike the same spike that tried to kill him all the time. the same spike that called him whep and loser all the time yet xander said a few bad think back and he getting a way with stuff. ps with a sould spike let him bleed on the floor maybe dieing and did not say anythink. and when cleb graped xander spike stood there till buffy move then spike saved him. xander saves spike a few times to.

buffy made fun of cordy, faith and anya.
willow made fun of cordy faith and anya
and if xander say one word about anyone there are dateing he is the bad guy.

xander does not get away with much. he as done the lease wrong.
short list
giles ripper and

buffy not kill angel lot of people die. running away lot of people die. letting spike live after selling demon eggs lot of people would have died. not tell when angel was back or spike. she could be wrong lot of people would have die. just to name a few.

willow a lot of her spell got people killed. (she did not have to do them they were dangerous, mind rape tara. the bronze seane. almost getting dawn killed.

so till me what has xander done that is sooo bad.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Bob666 - I'm going to take a stab in the dark and ask 'Is English not your first language?'

Alot of that comment I didn't understand. Could you please tell us if you DO speak another language as your first and what that is. Might be an idea to ask someone to translate for you for some of it.

I get you are trying, and kudos, but reading that just hurt my brain.

[sosa lola]

Okay, there's that one, but there were a LOT of other things he pulled--casting spells, lying to Buffy, making rude remarks about Buffy's relationships, etc--that he just kind of brushed off as soon as they were over and never apologized for.

He went to Giles in BB&B admitting that he was an idiot for making Amy do that love spell. He told Buffy that he understood why she didn't tell him about her and Spike because he would be an ass about it in Seeing Red, and from there, he was trying to understand when it came to Buffy and her feelings for Spike. He apologized to Buffy in Teacher's Pet for being rude to her and not believing her. He was angry with himself and Willow when he discovered that they had left Buffy in the coven after they brought her back.

I think you're being too hard on Xander. His mistakes were not as huge as those of Willow, Giles, Spike, Anya and many more. He never killed with the intention to kill. He never tried to end the world. While I admit, he can be a jerk and an idiot, he never really crossed the path of light.

[Blondie Bear]

Xander did a lot of growing up over the course of the series, I'll admit--probably the most character development of any character other than maybe Spike. But his tendency in the first few seasons to avoid admitting when he'd made a mistake--for example, in "The Pack" when he feigned amnesia so he wouldn't have to face up to his actions--drove me insane and pretty much colored his character for the rest of the series for me. And as DDD pointed out in beginning this thread, after admitting he summoned Sweet, he was all "What?! I didn't know! Can't blame me!" instead of "Really sorry, guys. I screwed up." He hardly ever apologizes for his mistakes (he does a few times, as some of you have pointed out, but those are the exceptions to the rule). Sure, he never really goes evil, but he's not faced with some of the huge problems others are faced with and he still chooses to be a jerk more often than not.

[sosa lola]

I agree with you on summoning Sweet, granted, I think it's more of writer ignorance than Xander's, and I'd like to think that Xander got yelled at by Giles later (like when Giles yelled at him for being irresponsible in BB&B and Beauty and the Beast) and that he got some remorse time alone. Thinking about it, Xander mentions it again in Older and Far Away, "sometimes we do something that seems like a good idea at the time, like, say, invoke the power of a musical amulet? And it turns out, you know, not so much."

As for The Pack, why should Xander say sorry? It wasn't his fault he was possessed. He got possessed helping poor Lance escape the pranks of the bullies which got him possessed. He was not Xander until the possession wore off and the second it did, we see him jumping to save Willow from the zookeeper.

I'm with you that Xander can be a jerk sometimes, lots of times, but I don't think he hardly ever apologizes for his mistakes. His "kick his ass" lie for example, I don't think Xander thought it was a mistake. I think he thought it was the right thing to do, but he kept it a secret because he knew his friends would think otherwise. Kinda like when Buffy never told her friends about Angel coming back.

[Blondie Bear]

Agreeing to disagree with y'all about Xander and moving on. No sense starting an argument over something that's really personal opinion.

[sosa lola]

I guess you're right. :) We all have different opinions, which makes it enjoyable to discuss them though.

[bradlee]

I always saw it as Xander covering for Dawn.

[bob6666]

All i said the idea that xander summon sweet seem pretty stupid to me, xander had no magic and can only read english, i would think a demon would be harder to summon.

xander my be a jerk at times, said a lot of hurtfull thinks, but so have buffy and willow and gilies. people just seem to forgot that.


xander my have maid some mistake. but he is a good person, xander is a very privite person who hide every think behind a joke, his hurt over how his friends treat him, the pain he must have had fighting beside buffy no slayer healing, all the times he saved buffy life and never even talks about it. so i can see why he does not talk about the bad thinks he has done. he just hold the pain in.

[InsaneMystic]

Perhaps it really is that easy summoning Sweet. Given that he's pretty much the most showy and flamboyant demon we've ever seen (only Lorne even comes close :biggrin:) he'd certainly be the one to do the demonic equivalent of distributing commercial flyers with summoning coupons, in plain English. :wink:

However, I admit this doesn't fit easily with Giles having no idea what's going on. *sigh*

[Fake Shemp]

this always niggled me too.

[SoBlind]

I didn't get that whole Xander summoning Sweet thing anyway. The way they did it with Xander only caused an "Um, what now?" effect (at least for me). They could have just said 'Ok, that demon that's making people sing and dance until they die is here. Go deal with it.'

[Lindsey McDonald]

I never liked this either. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that all the others spoke the truth in their songs: it seemed impossible to lie even when the character wanted to, like in I'll Never Tell, and Life's a Show. Notice Xander's lines in "I've Got a Theory", however:

I've got a theory we should work this out...

It could be witches, some evil witches,
which is ridiculous 'cause witches, they were persecuted, wicca good and love the Earth and woman pow'r and I'll be over here.

Hardly indicative of someone who knows they did it. For one, he doesn't really want them to work it out. Plus, it can't be witches, some evil witches...it was him. He knows this.

Due to the inconsistencies and the fact that they were hard pressed to get any exposition in at the end at all, I'm guessing something more coherent was cut or replaced, resulting in what we have. Not perfect, but plot was always going to be put to the back for character progression in this episode.

[littlewilly]

Xander was sick of living in everyones shadow, so he summoned Sweet in the hope he would kill the rest of the Scoobies.
But when his plan failed he just played dumb. He also considered joining the Trio.

[Whistler]

First off, when did this turn into a Xander bashing thread? Granted Xander is my fave character but that's because I identify a lot with him. He's immature, just like me, but he's got a huge heart and truly loves his friends. He does let his jealousy get the best of him but really, who hasn't? I think you're all being way too hard on him. The way he's been treated over the years he deserves a pass.

As for the summoning Sweet thing this was my take: Xander didn't realize until just then. Sweet said something like "You're wearing my talisman" to Dawn and then Xander saw it. It probably just clicked right there that he was playing with it in the magic box because it said something about dancing and singing. He probably played with it, put it back down and didn't give it another thought. We've all seen many times in the Buffyverse that magic can get triggered by the simplest things. So that's my take on it.

[Blondie Bear]

^ Except that he says, "I didn't know what would happen! I just thought there'd be dances and songs! I just wanted to make sure we'd work out. Get a happy ending."

Indicating that he did it entirely on purpose.

[Atren]

Xander is not viewed as smart, or maybe responsible is better word, as Willow. Xander is not expected to be as thoughtful as Willow who should have far better acknowledgement over consenquences of her actions. As Giles told her after returning -- you were the one person he expected to be responsible (or something like that).

[Girl with Sword]

I truly believe that Dawn did it. Not only did she not tell Sweet that she didn't do it while they were alone. When the scoobs came, I think Dawnie doth protest to much. It seems more like something she'd do. Xander was just covering for her. I think Xander does get picked on by us for the things he does even though there not as bad as what some other characters do because
1. He never gets called on it by the gang
2. It almost never comes back to bite him
3. He's usually so nice that those moments stick out
But there are things that I do not forgive for. "Kick his ass" is most offensive to me, and I'm a Spuffy. I just think it was pettiness in a serious situation.

[Da Letter Jay]

Yeah, I kinda always thought he was covering for Dawn too.
Regardless of who really did it, Xander saying that he summoned Sweet actually saved Dawn, because Sweet didn't swing that way.

[PurplePoof]

Xander never really took responsibility for his actions...yet he was always quick to jump on others when THEY messed up.

[Edmund Blackadder]

I truly believe that Dawn did it. Not only did she not tell Sweet that she didn't do it while they were alone. When the scoobs came, I think Dawnie doth protest to much. It seems more like something she'd do. Xander was just covering for her. I think Xander does get picked on by us for the things he does even though there not as bad as what some other characters do because
1. He never gets called on it by the gang
2. It almost never comes back to bite him
3. He's usually so nice that those moments stick out
But there are things that I do not forgive for. "Kick his ass" is most offensive to me, and I'm a Spuffy. I just think it was pettiness in a serious situation.

I don't believe that Dawn summoned the being, however it does seem pretty rushed that Xander did do it and not at all in line with the rest of the episode.

While I agree that Xander has rarely been taken to task over what he has chosen to do, I must say that if he had been covering for someone, maybe Dawn, that would have come out - even if it had been a little scene with Xander and Dawn. There was no follow up so its fair to assume as implausible as it seems, he did summon Sweet.

Was it a 100% cert that Willow would have restored Angel?
Not at all. If Xander had gone with that message Buffy might likely have tried to fight without the fire she needed to beat Angelus and he very possibly could have used that against her.

Xanders reasons may have been wrong(even then I am not sure they were) but his action was correct in the situation. Buffy didn't need to be fighting her own doubt at the same time as Angelus.

Xander never really took responsibility for his actions...yet he was always quick to jump on others when THEY messed up.

Well thats true of most people. Can't fault him for being human.

Yeah, I kinda always thought he was covering for Dawn too.
Regardless of who really did it, Xander saying that he summoned Sweet actually saved Dawn, because Sweet didn't swing that way.

Yes, but didn't you notice the subtext between Sweet and Xander?

[PurplePoof]

Well thats true of most people. Can't fault him for being human.
No, but I can fault him for being an asshole. Tons of people are at a level where they can acknowledge they made mistakes. AND lots of people are able to allow others the same courtesy without attempted verbal annihilation and attacking them.

[fly on the wall]

I never liked this either. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that all the others spoke the truth in their songs: it seemed impossible to lie even when the character wanted to, like in I'll Never Tell, and Life's a Show. Notice Xander's lines in "I've Got a Theory", however:

I've got a theory we should work this out...

It could be witches, some evil witches,
which is ridiculous 'cause witches, they were persecuted, wicca good and love the Earth and woman pow'r and I'll be over here.

Hardly indicative of someone who knows they did it. For one, he doesn't really want them to work it out. Plus, it can't be witches, some evil witches...it was him. He knows this.

Due to the inconsistencies and the fact that they were hard pressed to get any exposition in at the end at all, I'm guessing something more coherent was cut or replaced, resulting in what we have. Not perfect, but plot was always going to be put to the back for character progression in this episode.

Just because they DO speak the truth in their songs, doesn't mean they CAN'T embellish, mislead, or lie. Look at Buffy during this same song.
I've got a theory, it doesn't matter...What can't we face if we're together? What's in this place that we can't weather? Apocalypse...we've all been there...the same old trips, why should we care? etc
To the casual observer (and the Scoobies, except Giles, who it takes a little longer to convince) it seems she's rallying the troops, brightening their spirits, rah rah, so on and so forth, but in actuality she's saying, "I don't care what's going on because I don't care about anything, I'm just going through the motions." But she doesn't SING that, does she?

Xander didn't sing, "I didn't do it!" He sang, "It could be witches..." Not exactly a bold-faced lie. Just like Buffy's verse wasn't.

Anyway, I definitely don't think he was covering for Dawn. For one thing...why didn't Dawn steal the amulet after she summoned the demon? Why leave it on the counter, and steal it later? For another thing..why would Xander cover up for Dawn if it meant he might have to be Sweet's queen (something he seems to be genuinely concerned about)? Why not just have Buffy kick the demon's ass?
Plus...remember in "Selfless", the flashback to OMWF and Anya's song? Xander's sleeping and murmurs, "Just wanted...a happy...ending." Which supports the fact that he summoned Sweet.

[cryptwarmer]

I think this issue is sort of a loose string. It doesn't make any sense to me that Xander did this. I mean, there is no context for it, no real motivation.

It makes more sense to me that Dawn did it, albeit accidentally, when she stole various things from the Magic Box and tossed them together in her jewelry box. That is what my husband and I assumed, that she had summoned the demon without any knowledge, by having the amulet and coin together in her jewelry box.

So when Xander claims responsibility at the end, we were scratching our heads...I mean, why? It doesn't make sense? But it's as if they needed some explanation and just threw that in...blame Xander for a silly spell, kind of thing. But really, I think it would have been better if it had been Dawn and that had been a way for them to discover her klepto tendencies, and for concern to grow around her.

I think they either ran out of time and left our something that would have supported why Xander did it, or they just tossed that in last minute, but somehow it was not really fleshed out.

[LifeIsJustThis]

I always saw it as Xander covering for Dawn.

Interesting point. I always thought that whole exchange was pretty strange. I bet it was Dawn who summoned him.

Interesting Xander trivia I found on Wikipedia:

Brendon has an identical twin brother, Kelly Donovan, who is three minutes older than he, and served as his occasional stand-in on Buffy. Kelly also played the part of Xander's double in the episode "The Replacement"[6] when the two Xanders were on the screen at the same time, and when Nicholas fell sick with pneumonia, he played Xander in most of the fight scenes in the episode "Intervention".[7]

[BASBritt]

I think he felt bad, and everyone was pissed they he had summoned this demon that killed people by making them dance till they exploded, but I think the revelation that they ripped Buffy out of Heaven kind of overshadowed what Xander had done. He summoned Sweet without knowing what was really going to happen, and it is horrible that Sweet wasn't exactly the happy song demon Xander thought he was when he summoned him. But I think the knowledge that Buffy had been happy in Heaven and they had taken her away from that was a little too much for them to deal with on top of disciplining Xander for summoning him.

[Skytteflickan88]

I figure that it was a complelety out of character moment for him that was written so we could have the "Do I have to be your Queen?"-joke.

It should be reflected on the writers, not Xander. And taht he didn't get punished afterwards... I think the "I was in Heaven"-fact hit them all over the head so they could think of nothing else. And in the light of Willow's magic abuse, I bet that was nothing for the Scoobies. They all seemes to be in denial over that.

But one day, I want to see Xander's reaction to it. Maybe Dawn could do something dumb in Season 8, Xander would yell at her, and she yelled back; "Atleast I haven't danced any people to death." And then we see Xander ashamed and Dawn and Xander would be unfriendly for a while, until they worked through it.

And about Xander covering for Dawn.... Maybe, but I don't think so. We did see her find the amulet, not do magic with it.

[LorneyTunes]

I think they just loved the singing and dancing that much they just forgot what he did. Blinded by the musical romance.
Also then punishing themselves with deep dark thoughts on what Buffy sings in the end. What Xander did is no concern they are more attentive to Buffy because she might have been in heaven.