Home Violation

[white avenger]

In "Consequences," when Faith is strangling Xander, Angel comes in and slugs her, then takes her off to his mansion. How did he get in without an invitation? In Season 3 of "Angel," he can't come into Fred's room without an invitation, even though he owns, or at least leases, the hotel, because it is her residence.
So, why can he come into Faith's motel room/residence without the prerequisite invitation?

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

because she doesn't permanently live there? Where as Fred was living in the hotel, Faith was just there temporarily? That's all i can think of.

[randiann]

I think there has been mention of a hotel being "public accomidations" so therefore no invitation needed whereas Angel's hotel was used more like apartments in my mind with everyone having their seperate and permanant bedrooms that weren't temporary housing

[Blondie Bear]

It's possible that with Fred he was being polite or trying not to scare her.

[Edmund Blackadder]

It's possible that with Fred he was being polite or trying not to scare her.

Angel: "I can't come in."

Fred: "Of course not. You're worn from your trip. You go rest. We'll catch up later."

Fred begins to shut the door, not looking at Angel.

Angel: "Fred, I wanna talk to you, I just can't come in unless you..."

Fred, pulling the door back open: "I invite you. Instead of being rude! Oh, come in. Come in."


I think what we have here is a possible discussion based on what Home/House means.

If a Vampire cannot enter the home of someone, well that could be just about anything someone refers to as home.

I think in this case, the motel that Faith was in was never seen as more than that by Faith where as Angel and Co saw the Hyperion as their home.

[white avenger]

There's that possibility. I doubt if Faith ever referred to or even thought of any place as a home, but as more of just a place to sleep between slayings. The closest she ever really had to a real, permanent home was the prison. (Now, there's a depressing thought!)

[Edmund Blackadder]

The closest she ever really had to a real, permanent home was the prison. (Now, there's a depressing thought!)

Far from it, I doubt Faith would see it as depressing. This was her place to pay and understand what had happened. Maybe we wouldn't like it, but it kinda makes sense for Faith.

[Black Eye Guy]

I think it all depends on if the person is actually living there, like you've said consider it a home, or if it's a temporary situation.

In Season 7 of Buffy, spike was able to get into the house that Buffy was in cuz the person had abandoned it.

[Blondie Bear]

In Season 7 of Buffy, spike was able to get into the house that Buffy was in cuz the person had abandoned it.

He made it sound like he could just walk in because evil had taken over the town, though.

Do you realize I could just walk in here, no invite needed?
This town really is theirs now, isn’t it?

[Kana]

The motel room was public accomodation, no invitation needed. Angel was also able to enter Darla's motel room. Also Angelus was able to get into Enyos' hotel room.

Fred had taken up residency in the room of the Hyperion because it wasn't open for business as a hotel so she was able to take private residency in the room. Angel couldn't enter because technically he didn't own the hotel. The mortage was in the company name. Compare this to Russel Winters who owned Tina's apartment building so he could enter.

But what about Angelus line in Passion about entering the school? Surely he wouldn't need an invitation...

He wouldn't. Jenny probably isn't that good with her vampire metaphysics. Even demon expert Wesley got it wrong once. Angelus was most likely just playing along and messing with her.

EDIT: One more thing I forgot. If one was wondering why Angel couldn't enter even though he was living in the same hotel as Fred, I'd say that one room in the hotel would be the equivalent of one unit of accommodation, like a house or an apartment. Dawn had inviters rights to the Summers home etc. If Angel and Fred were saying in the same room (leave this alone shippers lol) then Angel could enter.

[Hello Cutie]

I'm sure there was a reference somewhere in one of the episodes in either Buffy or Angel (I think Buffy), that had something to do with this sort of issue.

I also think it's to do with what constitutes a 'home'. In season 7, when Buffy gets kicked out, Spike follows her and can get into the house she takes refuge in, without invitation, because the house was no longer seen as a home.
When Fred was holed up in her room at the hotel, it became her home- she never left it, and it was where she was most comfortable etc- she'd made it hers, settled in, and therefore it becomes her home.

Although Faith was staying in the motel, it wasn't home.. it was just a room she slept in, which is why Angel can enter without permission- if nobody claims it as a home, then vampires don't need entry permission. If it had been the apartment the Mayor had given her on the other hand, I doubt Angel could have just walked in- that was her home.

[Aussie]

In "Benediction" (Angel season 3) when Angel goes to find Holtz in a motel room.

"I cant recall, would you require an invitation for a place like this?
"Public accommodation. No"

So he could enter motel rooms like Faiths or Holts or anyone else in a motel. I think I am agreeing with Kana now on the Freds room issue :)

[Evilyn]

But, if the room had been Faith's for a said period of time, wouldn't it technically been her residence? She did live there, and some motels are classifed as motel rooms or "studio" apartments. So, if Faith lived there in that one room, for 3 months, wouldn't that be a private residence? Especially if she was paying rent and no one else had occupied the room.

A lot of low rent motels aren't owned by corporations either, they are usually mom and pop, with the owner living in the motel building also. So, technically, if owned by an individual who lived in the motel, that was living, I would think the building would be classified as a private residence, even if some rooms were rented out by the hour or day. What about those people that had lived in the same room for 6 months or a year? Do they get shafted out of the sanctuary clause just because the building is a motel? They pay rent, the eat, sleep, bathe and other stuff of the sort, just like any normal tenant. Why should they be excluded? That doesn't seem quite fair.

[white avenger]

But, if the room had been Faith's for a said period of time, wouldn't it technically been her residence? She did live there, and some motels are classifed as motel rooms or "studio" apartments. So, if Faith lived there in that one room, for 3 months, wouldn't that be a private residence? Especially if she was paying rent and no one else had occupied the room.

A lot of low rent motels aren't owned by corporations either, they are usually mom and pop, with the owner living in the motel building also. So, technically, if owned by an individual who lived in the motel, that was living, I would think the building would be classified as a private residence, even if some rooms were rented out by the hour or day. What about those people that had lived in the same room for 6 months or a year? Do they get shafted out of the sanctuary clause just because the building is a motel? They pay rent, the eat, sleep, bathe and other stuff of the sort, just like any normal tenant. Why should they be excluded? That doesn't seem quite fair.


Angel also told Jenny Calendar that he was able to enter Sunnydale High because of the welcoming sign outside (some Latin phrase), but that was just Angelus mocking a potential victim, since the school was not a place of residence. Also, by that logic, a "Welcome " mat would serve as an invitation, which seems far fetched.

[Edmund Blackadder]

But, if the room had been Faith's for a said period of time, wouldn't it technically been her residence? She did live there, and some motels are classifed as motel rooms or "studio" apartments. So, if Faith lived there in that one room, for 3 months, wouldn't that be a private residence? Especially if she was paying rent and no one else had occupied the room.

A lot of low rent motels aren't owned by corporations either, they are usually mom and pop, with the owner living in the motel building also. So, technically, if owned by an individual who lived in the motel, that was living, I would think the building would be classified as a private residence, even if some rooms were rented out by the hour or day. What about those people that had lived in the same room for 6 months or a year? Do they get shafted out of the sanctuary clause just because the building is a motel? They pay rent, the eat, sleep, bathe and other stuff of the sort, just like any normal tenant. Why should they be excluded? That doesn't seem quite fair.


You're right, how rude.

I think we should all stop watching Buffy and Angel because of this.

:p

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

Also, by that logic, a "Welcome " mat would serve as an invitation, which seems far fetched.

Jeez, well thank god i don't have one of those. In fact, i think for the safety of us all, we need to buy one of those mats that say "Leave". :: vampire

[littlewilly]

I dont know about a vampire being able to enter unless the person thinks of this place as home, Remember when Angel
tries to enter Lindseys office, and Angels all like 'i may not be able to come in...' and Lindsey invites him in. So unless Lindsey sleeps in his office, it seems that a vampire cant enter anywhere that the person considers to be 'theirs', even if they dont own/live there.

[randiann]

Isn't that his apartment? I'd have to watch it again to be sure but that's what I thought was Angel's trying to get Darla help because she's sick with the whore syphillis and all glary from the doorway and says he can't come in and Lindsey says "wipe your feet" and then says something like 'come in already I invited you' or something.....ok now I have to watch that one again....but I'm 93% sure it's his apartment. He comes back to it later when they kill Darla and turn her back to a vampire and talks to the landlady about Drusilla but Lindsey had moved....

[palabravampiress]

You know what I dislike even more than I dislike the strange invitation rules? I dislike the fact that the invitation is permanent! We humans have to knock and ask for entry every single time (that, or pick the lock or climb in through the window or something). Shouldn't vamps have to do that, too?