So, Helpless....what the?

[definition of insane]

I don't get why this is thing they do. At 18 you leave them defenceless and throw them in with a vamp? Tarvers says it's tradition and that it's to test their cunning and wits and whatnot but seriously? It's nuts. What about the slayers may not have gotten past this whole time honoured tradition thing. I mean that basically means there could have been scores of slayers that the watcher's council have basically killed.

And what if a slayer was chosen like at 19 or something? Would they have to go through the same process?

I just don't get it. My revisit of Buffy continues....

[white avenger]

I think Buffy was 16 at the time of this test, or perhaps 17. I do agree, however, that this is a really stupid test, unless the real purpose is to kill off the majority if the Slayers before they got old enough to make their own decisions. The Watchers' Council seems to prefer their Slayers young and subservient rather than older and independent. That's why they had so many issues with Buffy in the later seasons.

[hidden]

well i doubt slayers get called at 19
its been said before that the younger the better
and they probably do want them young and nieve so i agree the test is basically to kill them off to get a new one

[Joyce Summers]

Twisted, but true. I agree with the whole 'Kill 'em off before they realize what's going on' concept. The COW (Council of Watchers ;)) are like the ultimate version of control freaks and a young girl at the impressionable age of let's say, 14, when told she's the savior of all mankind is going to want an older Fatherly or Motherly role telling her exactly what she needs to do. Orders stop her from making the decisions she'd be terrified of making. But when you've been the Slayer for a while and/or you're reaching adulthood, you're going to start saying 'Wait a second, I don't quite agree with you there' and that's what most of the Watcher's Council were terrified of happening.

Actually what they feared most- a Slayer realizing she had more power and control over them than they over her- happened in Checkpoint with that FANTASTIC end scene.

[Lily]

Everytime I watch I get so mad at Giles, but by the end my heart swells with the 'father's love for the child' bit, which almost makes me forgive the terribleness of what they do. I just think it's the most bizarre thing to do, like, well done for surviving, but by the way - we've set it up so you pretty much can't survive, good luck.
It seems sort of contrary to the mission. Having to re-train slayers over and over is difficult enough for the Council I would have thought, without them purposefully setting slayers up to die. I agree with all that mentioned the kill 'em off once they become independent thinkers - sort of the Councils version of parents kicking kids out of home before they realise they don't actually have to follow the existing rules as adults?

[InsaneMystic]

sort of the Councils version of parents kicking kids out of home before they realise they don't actually have to follow the existing rules as adults?
...and with this kick-out being purposely fatal. COWards, and something else ending with -ard, I guess.

[Edmund Blackadder]

It has less to do with the Slayer and more to do with The Watcher.

As Buffy points out in Checkpoint, the Watchers are nothing without the Slayer SO they need to feel that they are part of her world and creating things like this gives them some kind of link.

It also tests what the Watcher has taught her, what she has learned NOT for her benefit but again so the Watchers Council can claim they have a purpose.

Edit:

Lily agrees: true, but it's still a test of the slayer in the 'field' in the end, so the point wasn't entirely missed

See again, I don't think so. I think that is the justification and the end result, I think the point is to give the Watchers Council a role.

[Dancing man]

I dont agree a warrior of the people has to expect every circumstance. Who's to say in the 1000's of daemons that walk the earth their isnt one that could take a slayers powers. Also It adds a dimension of though to a slayers skills, thinking on a different level.

[bob6666]

takeing there power away would teach them a lesson, maybe make them a better fighter and slayer,
i would have loved it was just a trick and they saved the slayer this was just a test.

would make some sence in that if two years go by and you not good enough maybe a new slayer would be better. we are talking about saveing the world.

why would they be woried about the slayer she is in truth nothing. i know they make a big deal about it but in the end she is just a girl, a gun and good aim she is dead, how many mages could kill her. we are talking about a group that has billion of dollers, thousand of people and contion with some of the most powerfull witch group in the would the truth is she can not do a lot.

there was alot of talk that the watchers had a lot of people fighting demons in the world. she was just apice of a large puzzle.



the test was wrong, but maybe there should have been a test
buffy belive that being the slayer made it her desion about many think (i am the slayer, i am the law) all she was is a girl stonger then most that it.

who ever had the power had the right to kill angel when was evil, spike to even with the chip people die becouse of him, anya , willow why does buffy belive that it is her desion who lives or dies.

does any else think buffy rules change depanding on how much she care about the person,, cant kil spike or angel kill anya no problem,
what happen if was xander, or willow.

would buffy kill xander to save angel, she would have killed faith.

[wiccianslayer]

Okay lets review

What happens in america when you turn 18?

You become an offical law adult

There by gettin your own mind.


The less obediant you shall become for as long as it takes you.

Watcher killed the slayers at that age so they could have a new obedent slayer.

[Edmund Blackadder]

Okay lets review

What happens in america when you turn 18?

You become an offical law adult

There by gettin your own mind.


The less obediant you shall become for as long as it takes you.

Watcher killed the slayers at that age so they could have a new obedent slayer.

Did you even watch the show or know anything about human nature?

First of all, The Slayers nationality has nothing to do with it.

We get the impression that this has been going on longer than there has been a known America, or at least US. Being 18 in one country doesn't make any difference to the age of another country.

I don't believe that this has anything to do with the obediance aswell.

I can go along with them wishing to keep the Slayer young but still, the most obvious one to me is that the Watchers wish to feel like they have a place.

[white avenger]

There does seem to be some evidence that the test was as much for the Slayer's Watcher as for the Slayer. Travers told Buffy and Giles that she passed but he didn't, because he had a "father's love" for his Slayer. Maybe the whole point of the test wasn't just to test the Slayer's ingenuity, resourcefulness, and courage, but also to assure that her Watcher had maintained his sense of detachment from the girl who was his charge. The Council seemed to only regard the Slayer as a weapon to be used and discarded, after all. After all, "When one falls, another is called." They'll always have their one fighter, even if they waste a few senselessly.

[littlewilly]

Does anyone get why that vamp was on pills?? didnt know pills would affect a vampire.
And when buffy lost powers could she not have went to angel for help??

[white avenger]

Does anyone get why that vamp was on pills?? didnt know pills would affect a vampire.
And when buffy lost powers could she not have went to angel for help??


We don't know just what drug the vampire was on, but, yes, drugs do affect vampires. Both Angel and Spike have been shot with tranquilizer darts, Spike talked about "eating a flower child" at Woodstock (supposedly high on something) and spending the rest of the night watching his hand move. Then there was the drug in "Angel Season 4" that humans injected into themselves, then let vamps feed on them to get high. For that matter, alcohol is arguably a drug, and Spike has been falling down drunk on several occasions in various episofes of "Buffy."

[ILLYRIAN]

Considering that the Watchers Council was a group of watchers that were there to help the slayer, why was Quentin happy, or ok with the concept of making it dangerous for the slayer?
Put a girl who has just lost her strength up against a vampire who was seriously twisted as a human, as logical goes, it wasn't.
In checkpoint he was willing to see if the slayer was good enough in his eyes, to get the information he had about Glory. If he had his way, would he have let Buffy have the info?
One might be excused for thinking he was one of the First.

[littlewilly]

Quinten was just power hungry. he wanted things done his way (even though not the best way) just so he could feel in charge.

[amandakins18]

The whole test thing makes me a little sick. killing people because they think for themselves is beyond wrong but my whole thing is that vampire. Why in the world would he have to take pills? how does that work? splainy!!

[Blondie Bear]

^ He has some sort of psychological disorder that requires him to take medication. I don't think they ever mentioned exactly what his problem is.

[Vampmogs]

The whole test thing makes me a little sick. killing people because they think for themselves is beyond wrong but my whole thing is that vampire. Why in the world would he have to take pills? how does that work? splainy!!

Well Dru's mental condition from when she was a human carried on to when she became a vampire, so it makes sense his would to.

Though on the otherhand becoming a vampire cured Darla of her sickness so it's a little inconsistent.

[white avenger]

Considering that the Watchers Council was a group of watchers that were there to help the slayer, why was Quentin happy, or ok with the concept of making it dangerous for the slayer?
Put a girl who has just lost her strength up against a vampire who was seriously twisted as a human, as logical goes, it wasn't.
In checkpoint he was willing to see if the slayer was good enough in his eyes, to get the information he had about Glory. If he had his way, would he have let Buffy have the info?
One might be excused for thinking he was one of the First.


Quentin cares far more about the Slayers than he does Buffy, if that makes a whole lot of sense. The Slayer is a weapon, to be controlled, utilized, sacrificed, and discarded by the Watchers' Council. After all, there will always be another Slayer, right? Both Buffy and Faith were pains in Quentin's side, because they both had brains and insisted on using them. (Look at Kendra, by comparison. From what little I saw of her, she struck me as just short of a killing robot, a weapon to be aimed at whatever target the Watchers chose. Just like Buffy told her, she had all of the technical moves, but none of the imagination. That's what made Buffy unique)

And in "Checkpoint," if you recall, all of Quentin's testing was just a cover up for the fact that the Council was helpless without her. By the end of the episode, SHE was dictating terms to the Council, not the other way around.

[Jules]

I definatly think it was all about control. Like many people have said, Buffy was forming her own opinions and thinking for herself, so as a result the Council were losing some of their control. Even their test for Giles was about control. A Watcher who has a fatherly relationship with his slayer is less likely to just blindly send her into any situation the Council may order.

[WhiteHat]

It is likely that the 'unworthy' Slayers were killed during the Cruciamentum. However, this was a necessary winnowing process, from the Council's stantpoint. Compare the brutal training given military recruits the world-over. Deaths during training exercises are commonplace.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Well Dru's mental condition from when she was a human carried on to when she became a vampire, so it makes sense his would to.

Though on the otherhand becoming a vampire cured Darla of her sickness so it's a little inconsistent.

Darla was only physically sick though. When a person is sired, their body dies, ergo, physical sickness is not an issue. However, the demon fuses with and perverts the person's mind, personality and memories. That's why insanity carries over and the physical illness does not.

[white avenger]

It is likely that the 'unworthy' Slayers were killed during the Cruciamentum. However, this was a necessary winnowing process, from the Council's stantpoint. Compare the brutal training given military recruits the world-over. Deaths during training exercises are commonplace.

No, in real, modern military units, deaths during training exercises are most certainly NOT commonplace. Military personnel represent an asset far too valuable to be squandered irresponsibly. Safety during training is of the highest priority. The mere fact that the Watchers' Council took the lives of their Slayers to be so insignificant, to be an asset to be thrown away so casually, is as perfect an illustration of their outdated policies and methods of training as the antiquated weapons that they armed their Slayers with.

[charmingslayer]

This epp always makes me sad for B cuase the stupid council and seeing SMG act helpless IMO sold the ep for me.

I totally agree with WA on the whole killing slayer at 17 before the independant stage.

[buffbot23]

I am just watching season 1, and I wonder if this "tradition" happens a lot, because Buffy wasn't suppose to live past 16, and look what she went through to live. Makes one wonder about the validity of this test.