Connor

[littlewilly]

ha ha. just want to let ya know how much

i HATE conner.

the one and only time they got the casting wrong

[littlewilly]

I liked the conner storyline.
Overall Darla being pregenant, Holtz... even conners story.

But not conner himself.

And whats the point of conners inclusion then? i dont think it is that complex unless you try to make it out to be!

[Entiel]

I don't know..at first I didn't like his character but the actor seemed fine..In his appearance in s5 he does well and the character is "improved" so I guess he's fine imo..

[white avenger]

I thought Connor was a good character and I had no real problems with the actor chosen to play the part except that he had no resemblance to either Angel or Darla. Maybe another actor could have done the job as well or better, but we'll never know now, will we? Just out of curiosity. Lee, who would you pick to play the part if you were Joss? From your statement, you mist have someone else in mind.

[littlewilly]

Oh i dont know. im not trying to sound like a *know it all*. i do know though i dont think he suited the part.
everyone else seemed perfect for their parts, like they had quite similar personalities to their characters in real life.

The point in conners story i thought was so he could get cordy pregnant to have jasmine?
is that not right?

[littlewilly]

eh... do YOU even know?? you explain IF you know then. Remember Skip said all the big moments that have happened were all gear towards the arrival of jasmine. What was that all about then if you think you are so smart Schillaci

Edit:

*i meant geared, not gear.

[Lyri]

*Points to her Slayer Stats on the left, specifically, the favorite Character: CONNOR*

I love Connor, I love how he was so messed up and confused, how he tried to fit in with Angel, then when that didn't work tried to find his own place in thw world, saving innocent people from vampires, and that didn't work out either.

Connor really isn't the one to blame for the way he was, that was all Holtz's doing, turning him against his father. You can't really blame him for reactiong to Angel the way he did when he first got back from Quor'Toth. He was expecting this evil, soulless creature, as that's what Hotlz's described him as. Because Angel wasn't what his 'father' told him he was, Connor went off the rails. He didn't know who to believe, his real father, or the man who'd raised him. And let's not forget, Holtz told Connor that Angel had abandoned him to Quor'Toth, not that Holtz jumped through the portal and trapped them both there.

I also love Vincent Kartheiser, I think he's a great actor, and really suited the role of tortured Connor. He's funny, too, as well as slightly insane.

I think part of the reason I love Connor so much is that I've sat and listened to Vincent himself describe Connor in his own words. Once I heard that it was like "Oh, I get it now."

[Dlou444]

I think I might have to agree.
I like Vincent Kartheiser okay. And I liked the Connor Arc. But, I don't think the casting was the best. He just didn't "fit" right. Like a puzzle piece that almost fits, but not quite.
I can't explain it really.

I think Connor had a LOT of emotions and inner turmoil that he had to portray, and Vk didn't see to have the range of facial expressions to do it. I Do think he did better in S5...he convinced me then.
In S3 and S4, I just felt like he wasn't really able to convince me of how he felt.
I think Dawn did a better job of convincing me of her feelings and having me understand her. I didn't LIKE the character, but I did understand her. Conner, I DID like his character, I just didn't "feel" it.

The Buffyverse is FULL of people who are good, bad and confused (Lila, Lindsey, Spike, Cordy, Dawn, Anya, Willow, Harmony...the list goes on and on) the fact that I never really felt for Connor and always kind of wanted him to be more angry, more happy, more hurt, more likable when he was good, more huggable when he was scared, more SOMETHING....I do think it may be the one time they missed the boat.
It may not have been VK's fault. Maybe they didn't explain his story well. He did seem to change from episode to episode....or maybe it's just me because I didn't ever really feel him.

[Cangel]

I know the way he turned out wasn't his fault, still I never liked Connor. Anyone surprised? Well I liked him as a baby, but that's it.
I liked the first part of the storyline, Darla pregnant, vampire hunter from back of the Angelus aand Darla days, but I think Angel had really earned to see his son grow up and everything, really. I know it's hard to keep an infant on the show so I understand why they used this storyline, but still I'm not a fan. And well, since I'm not really a fan of this storyline, I'm not much of a Connor fan either.

[littlewilly]

Schillaci, you seem to assume you are smarter than everyone else.
When you described the point of Conners inclusion it was like, yeah, and.
I already guessed that they wanted to take Conner away to show angel he;d never have a normal life.

Really Schillaci, seems to me that you are a tit, son.

[Entiel]

Angel(to Spike):Did you just call me a tit?:P
one of the funniest moment to end this argument with humor..stop arguing feel the love :P

[littlewilly]

HA ha ha ha ha ha ha, you are too funny, ha ha ha.
You are alot smarter. ha ha ha ha ha

[white avenger]

You do realise people can read, correct?

You said connors inclusion was to bring Jasmine forth, not true.

You asked a question, I answered it. For answering it you accused me of loving myself?, what does that mean about you?

And don't call me son, I am older than you, and I am a lot smarter.

Also, I already stated I havent watched either show in years.



(Did Bored of the Dead change his name? Because this is starting to look REAL familiar.)

[VisionGuy]

I am asking nicely, get back on topic and stop with the insults.

[Dlou444]

Yes Lee, Mr whedon sat down ad wrote the entire show of buffy and ANgel in one go. He knew everything that was going to happen from the start. He knew Charisma was going to get pregnant, he knew it all, man. And my post wasn't arrogant, it was incredulous and I had a very short amount of time, that is why I asked someone else to explain the answer to you.



I know you have a problem with me so I'm going to avoid you as much as possible, all I want to tell you is that you didn't answer the boys question.



You didn't "get" it because you are a girl. You've never experienced the father adolescent son volatile relationship.



A huge part of Buffy and Angel was that late 90s cliche, your family is not your blood its those that are there fo you when you need them.

The point of connor was in small part to mirror the relationship Angel had with his own father. Connor hated Angel, Angel couldnt understand him. Utimately, it was a literal interpretation of a father son relationship, wherer both parties just dont understand the other. I thought they knocked the storyline outta the park. My biggest problem was the cordy thing, but they were basically forced into that.

And finally the 3rd piece of the actual original arc was to take connor away from Angel. To let him know that he will never have a normal life. To break him, W&h took advantage ad thought they coould use it to get Angel on their side when the big smackdown comes a raining. If I've missed anything, feel free to add, but just know this. I have watched neither show in years.


OH, one last thing. You people knew Angel was in the right connor didn't. Does that thought never cross your mind when you consider his actions? I think Vince was the best actor for that part that I can think of. I think the job he did was at tines heartbreaking at others so understandable. Then again I had a bad relationship with my father as a teenager.


Ummm....first off, I never said I didn't "get it" I said VK's portrayal of Connor never seemed to quite "fit" and that I never "felt it". For that matter, Lyri wasn't supposed to be answering YOUR personal questions, just leaving her opinion in relation to the thread itself. Which is how things usually go. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if she DID have a problem with you if you think otherwise. I didn't see LeeTheHost didn't say a word about Joss writing everything in one swoop and could see the future, he said he understood the story arc and all the things involved. Which is entirely different.
Your OPINION may be different, but that doesn't make everyone else an idiot. And, it would be nice if you'd read and comprehend what is being said. Lots of people like VK. Even I like him. But, I don't think he was very good at showing the many emotions of Connor. You'd have to be blind to not be able to comprehend that part. On the other hand, perhaps you should watch it again, because for the bulk of S4 he seems to come to some sort of terms with Angel. The ACTING part, wasn't as good as it could have been, only in the sense that he was very much one sided. He looked aloof all the time, even when he was starting to understand and it was hard to tell what he was feeling at any given moment.
What kind of statement is it that I wouldn't "get it" because I was a girl anyway? Girls don't have adolescent issues with their parents? Believe me THAT part I got just fine, thank you and since it wasn't at all what I said, I'd also thank you to read before jumping to conclusions just because you don't want to understand that other people have valid opinions other than yours.

[Jenny]

It's the tone that is being used in this thread that caused the warning (and the warning was for everyone, not one person in particular). It's a shame because there is some good discussion buried here.

[littlewilly]

Look, Nobody wants to be arguing. We just dont need someone telling us we dont understand something when we do.

Plus you are missing the point. The people who said they dont like conner, it is not because we dont understand the story. We just think VK didnt suit the part. I think its like charisma playing willow. or Seth green playing reilly.
Vincent just didnt, *I* think, suit it.

(if you, without good reason, refer to me as 'boy', and tell Dlou444 she 'wouldnt' understand as she's female, how do you think we are going to react??)

[littlewilly]

You just never learn do you? anyway, whatever.
People can make their own conclusions.
Im going for some Interesting conversation.

[Jenny]

Closing the thread as the topic discussion is going nowhere fast.