Gunn vs. Wesley, Angelus, and Fred

[The Ferg]

Ok, a couple questions.

1. Who was everyone rooting for when Gunn and Wesley duked it out on Soulless? I know I was rooting for Wesley. He's a lot cooler in Angel than he was in Buffy. :)
2. Is anyone else genuinely freaked out by Angelus? I didn't really know I was, but I just watched when Cordy was talking to Angelus and I realized when they got done that my heart was friggin pounding! I don't know why, I'm just... scared of him I guess...
3. What is the point of Fred? Why is she on the show? I mean, wouldn't you pick someone more... idk, attractive? To me, she is not hot at all, and I really don't see why Gunn and Wes are attracted to her? I know everyone is gonna say something like, "Well, it's not her body, it's her personality..." But seriously... Usually main girls in TV shows are half-way... hot.

[Blondie Bear]

I, for one, am glad that Whedon has moved away from the "typical" TV beauty. He did it with Willow, refusing to have "a supermodel in glasses"; he did it with Fred, who was more adorably geeky but still pretty; he did it with Kaylee, making Jewell gain something like 20 pounds to play the part. I think it gives a healthier view of women's beauty and gives those of us who don't fit Hollywood's idea of "hot" someone to relate to.

[The Ferg]

Huh, well I guess that explains my third question. I guess I kinda get Fred now. :)

[littlewilly]

What? Fred was definetly hot. may not be as stunning as some but still.

[eunsoma]

Sorry, gotta say I disagree, I was rooting for Gunn... even tho Wes was cooler than he used to be - Gunn was still way cooler than that. And I could relate to Gunn being made, he had given up everything for Fred, even killed a man - and then she runs off to kiss Wes?! I'd be mad too, but probably more with her than with Wesley... Still though, Gunn all the way.

I was scared of Angelus, yes. He was so twisted it really wasn't 'normal' for a TV monster to get to me so much... The scariest was in 'passion' where he had just killed Jenny and Buffy and Willow were crying inside Buffy's home. He was standing out the window laughing... errr... and also the creepy things he did like drawing the pictures and leaving Buffy flowers with the note saying 'soon'... Definitely a creep - yes.

I think Fred was good looking. They dressed her up like a freak yes, but underneath it all she was a pretty girl.. I think it becomes most evident in s5 when she seems to slap on a little more make up lol..

[littlewilly]

ha ha:whistle:maybe not, she still cute though.
(no assets haha)

[The Ferg]

I don't deny that Fred wasn't cute, she just isn't the type of girl that I normally would think of for a TV show. I was just wanting your opinions. :)

[Kana]

1. I was rooting for Gunn even though Wes is one of my favourite characters. Wes was kind of idiot when he kissed Fred, after all his instance that they stay on their guard: 0/10 for timing.

2. Angelus wasn't half the villain he was in Buffy but he was creepy in the cage. Genuinely, you feel unsettled. What makes him dangerous is his predilictioon for twisting minds and souls, just as Angel saves them.

3. Fred's great. Cute as button, and she contributed a lot as character. She has been muscle, the brains, the heart and she was a champion.

[The Ferg]

Oh, so you guys were rooting for the slave? ;)

[InsaneMystic]

1. I didn't really root for either. Probably too jealous for that (cf. 3.) :wink:

2. Angelus playing mind games... awfully scary. Physical torture is just gross; masterfully lying with the truth to get other people to jump at each other's throats, that's what makes a villain great and scary-as-hell.

3. Duh, Ferg... I can't believe for the life of me that anyone would find Fred unattractive. To me, the only one in the verse to play in the same league with her is Willow. I get all misty-eyed and sighy whenever Amy Acker is on screen! I've had this discussion with Social Suicide already, who was baffled that I'd toss away the idea of a big Cordy-Faith-Lilah-Darla-naughtiness package for Fred any old day. :lmao: Granted, Fred went through a phase when her skinnyness bordered on worrying, but who needs any other "assets" with that face? And to bring the asset discussion to the peak of what still passes as family-friendly: "Good things come in small packages." :biggrin:

[palabravampiress]

1. I was rooting for Gunn. I was always a bigger fan of Fred/Gunn than I was of Fred/Wes. Of course, I do understand why things went south between them after the professor thing (I was kinda pissed that Gunn stole Fred's opportunity for revenge just so she would still suit his ideal version of her). I understand why she needed to move on to Wes, who at least understood and respected the flawed, dark side of her (such that it was). But I'll admit... I loved Fred/Gunn more as a couple and really hoped those two crazy kids would get back together (alas and alack on that one, huh?).

2. I agree with Kana. Angelus wasn't half as great in this ep as he was on Buffy (maybe because we sorta knew what to expect), but he was still a genuinely unsettling sorta guy. I prefer him in his cage to out of it and, even then, I don't like to hear the things he says to the AI crew.

3. Fred? Not hot? Okay, I'm not gay, so I guess I really can't say whether or not she's "hot," per se. I'm also biased on the size front. I'm not quite that skinny anymore, but I used to be skinny like that. Some guys go for that. My husband certainly does. Then again, now that I've gained weight and grown some "assets" of my own, my hubby is rather fond of them. I guess it's not so much the wrapping as it is what's inside? I mean, some guys go for more voluptuous women. Some guys go for skinny women. Some guys go for body builders. Some guys go for fat women. There are lots of different body types and lots of different people (not just guys... lest the ladies who love ladies think I'm leaving them out) who go for them. In the end, though, I think that if you love someone, you love that person no matter how skinny or fat (or, like most of us, somewhere in the middle) that person is. Love may start with physical attraction, but it isn't about physical attraction.

All of that said, while Amy Acker certainly is beautiful (I wouldn't mind looking like her), Fred's beauty wasn't in her... ahem, assets. What made the guys of Angel want Fred was her inner strength, her intelligence, her perseverance, and especially that sunny disposition of hers. I mean, she lit up the room. Every time she was on the screen, she made me smile. Her smile was JUST fantastic. My attention was drawn to Fred every time she appeared in a scene, and I'm a married straight lady, so I can totally see why the guys of Angel dug her. Fred's beauty was skin deep, but she also had a natural grace and a smile and other little traits that completely transcended the physical.

[Superstar]

Angelus wasn't half the villain he was in Buffy but he was creepy in the cage.
In the cage, Hannibal Lecter was deliberately being channeled by the writers.

For Buffy (and the real world), there's evil... which frankly is more than slightly boring and forgettable such as the average vampire in Buffy and then there's diabolical.
The kill itself isn't as entertaining as the hunt and fear of the hunt.
Messing with minds in the process, priceless.

Those are the ones who are memorable villains and have oodles of books written about them.
Ask, Jack the Ripper, or Zodiac or even the Boston Strangler.
The number of kills was never the issue. The methodology.... 'nother story.

[Scythus]

i was rooting for Wes, always been a bigger fan of his than Gunn (maybe its a British thing) i could always see myself in him, to a certain degree i can relate.

I love Angelus, he's my favourite character in Buffy or Angel, i love how much more evil he is than the average vampire, or even the better ones like Spike & Drusilla, as the Judge can confirm, there's no humanity in him. i loved it when he killed Jenny and left her on Giles bed for him to find with a trail of roses leading upstairs and a dinner for two downstairs with a note, just pure evil. he wasn't as evil in S4 of Angel but he was definately brilliant, i loved him in the cage.

Fred was brilliant and hot in her own way