The nature of evil

[LorneyTunes]

what is everyone's opinions on lyndsey and his morals? Did he really deserve to die?

[Bluebird]

Interesting question there LorneyTunes. Personally I think Lyndsey's morals were the most realistic and truthful. He was not evil, he was trying to make a good life for himself and the power and wealth of W&H was too tempting for him. And he came to Angel when one of W&H's projects was to assisinate a group of children.

The death of Lyndsey, I think was too harsh. I'm sure Lyndsey only wanted to kill Angel (for good reason) and no one else, but Angel gets Lorne to kill him partly because of that very fact.

Does Angel kill humans so easily? He shouldn't selfishly become god and decide who lives and dies just because they have a personal grudge against him.

[LorneyTunes]

I miss the Tiny Texan xx

[white avenger]

Lindsey was like a flag. He waved whichever way the wind blew. As untrustworthy as he was, however, killing him when he did was sheer stupidity on Angel's part, because he needed every fighter he could get his hands on. there was plenty of time to kill Lindsey after the battle if they survived. In the meantime, he ws one more fighter, and Angel wasted him.

[LorneyTunes]

its what Angel calls him I know hes from oklahoma lol Its on his truck !!!

[The Kinslayer]

Lindsey was like a flag. He waved whichever way the wind blew.
In the beginning he could have gone either way, but in the end power and money made his decision. And lets be honest, most humans would have done the same, sad as it is.


As untrustworthy as he was, however, killing him when he did was sheer stupidity on Angel's part, because he needed every fighter he could get his hands on. there was plenty of time to kill Lindsey after the battle if they survived. In the meantime, he ws one more fighter, and Angel wasted him.
They did need as many fighters as possible. But having him around would only made the others (Angel included) concerned on how he would act. Would he help them or turn against them again? They didn´t need such distraction. So I´m not totally convinced they had the time to wait until after the fight, had they won.

[white avenger]

In the beginning he could have gone either way, but in the end power and money made his decision. And lets be honest, most humans would have done the same, sad as it is.



They did need as many fighters as possible. But having him around would only made the others (Angel included) concerned on how he would act. Would he help them or turn against them again? They didn´t need such distraction. So I´m not totally convinced they had the time to wait until after the fight, had they won.


I doubt that the demon army would make any distinction between those loyal to Angel and those who were just giving lip service to it. Once the battle started, Lindsey wouldn't have had time to betray Angel or anybody else, he would have been fighting too hard to survive. Even if he had the chance to stab Angel in the back, it's doubtful that the opposing army would have spared him. They looked to me like hired muscle and nothing more. mission was to kill whatever was at Angel's end of the alley, and that would have included Lindsey. Remember, the Senior Partners wanted him dead almost as badly as they did Angel himself. If he were there, he would have HAD to fight them, just to stay alive, whatever his ultimate loyalties might be.

[littlewilly]

Theres no way any of AI could have trusted lindsey in anyway. They just used him at the end.
Looking at it from angels point of view, why let him live? He wasnt a good man and what if he came back and backstabbed them?
Maybe when lorne said 'ive heard you sing' that he meant he knew ultimatly Lindsey would betray them!

[palabravampiress]

I don't know. I don't think he deserved to die, at least not without a fair fight. If it is possible to qualify evil by quantifying evil acts (like killing, for instance), then I have to say that Lindsey would have been one of the least evil people standing in that alley. Lindsey was a pencil pusher. He facilitated evil for his own material gain and eschewed the personal risks of fighting the good fight, but the only person to whom he posed a true mortal threat was Angel. That hardly makes him evil when compared to an ancient warrior God King thing, William the Freakin' Bloody, and his very own Yoda, the CEO of Hell Inc., himself. Of that motley crew, only Gunn comes off with the possibility of smelling rosier, and he's an acknowledged murder as well as the veritable Judas who accidentally sacrificed Fred for his own personal gain. My memory may be at fault here, but I don't remember Lindsey ever actually directly killing anyone. The only thing Lindsey is guilty of is backing the horse he thought would win and of harboring a vendetta (unfulfilled as it was) against Angel.

One might even argue that Lindsey had a pretty decent beef with the man who cut off his hand, impregnated the woman he loved, took over the very evil company that he fought/punished Lindsey for working for to begin with, turned him over to the powers for that special suburban Hell, and then betrayed him at the last minute by refusing to even fight him directly. In the principled, honor-bound world of the Buffyverse, a fair fight was most certainly called for. Whatever his intentions or future actions may have been, Lindsey should have been permitted to actually do wrong before being executed by Angel and co., who really had no room to judge. And even then, he should have been dispatched in a fair fight rather than an underhanded execution. Lindsey had some legitimate grievances against Angel, grievances that he should have been allowed to air in the good old fashioned Buffyverse way (a big, climactic fight). He also should have been offered redemption, and offered it more than once, like Faith and the myriad of other Buffyverse characters who are or have been morally ambiguous or even downright evil before attempting redemption.

Ultimately, I think Lindsey's death was wrong just like the lawyer massacre was wrong -- these people died to gratify Angel's vengeance, convenience, and other weaknesses.

[The Kinslayer]

*text*
I know, but who´s to say that Lindsey would have gone to the alley? So he seemed to be at Angels side at the moment, it doesn´t mean he couldn´t come back to stab him in the back after a while. And as lee said, maybe Lorne knew what he was going to to. I mean, that sentence must have a reason, right?

I´m not saying I´m right. I´m just looking for different possibilities.

[littlewilly]

There is no wayAngel or the AI team are more evil than Lindsey.
How is Angel not justified in judging him or getting revenge and killing him? If Lindsey had his way Angel would have been dead long ago.
And chopping lindseys hand off had to be done, it aint like Angel didnt warn him. Lindsey was trying to be a little smart ass and got what was coming to him.
And why would Angel waste 2minutes of his life killing Lindsey directly? what would be the point of that, maybe if Lindsey was an honourable
man he would have got an honourable death.
Also, the lawyer massacre was not wrong. In what way is it wrong? They brought all that on themselves.

[white avenger]

Lorne did indeed say that he "had heard Lindsey sing," and I have no problem with the idea that Lindsey might very well have betrayed Angel sometime in the future, but I still believe that in this case, in the whole "taking a stand" thing of what by his own admission would be little more than a gesture against Wolfram & Hart, Angel screwed up royally. Killing Lindsey was only the tip of the iceberg in the entire FUBAR operation. Even if he knew for a fact that Lindsey was going to betray him later, he was still reducing his fighting force by 20% at a time when he needed all the help he could get. Lindsey could have been handled later, after the battle was over, assuming that any of them survived.

[LorneyTunes]

he didn't deserve to die that way especially lorne doing it thats puttin some blood on his hands that he didn't need , i think he would have stabbed them in the back but kill him , well i guess Angel thought he was a waste of time and didn't want a big show down x