Normal Again

[Bluebird]

A lot of people criticised the ending of this episode with its lack of a definite resolution to which reality is the genuine one, ending on a shot of Buffy in the hospital. Maybe it's implying there is another reality where Buffy is just a sick girl in hospital. Also why, in her delusion would Buffy kill off her own mother?

Saying that, I did like this episode. I thought the storyline reflected Buffy's feelings, throughout season 6, of wanting to escape from the world.

Want are other opinions of this ep?

[Lyri]

This is my favorite BTVS episode. I loved everything about it. The fact that the ending was left open for us to make up our own mind, or even for something in the future, maybe something Joss could return to if he ever feels like ending the universe altogether.

As for Buffy killing off her mother in her 'delusion', it could have something to do with Sick-Buffy's view of her mother leaving her in the mental hospital in the first place. She would have probably felt very abandoned by Joyce, and so, to make herself feel better about her mother leaving her, she simply decided that Joyce died. It was probably easier for her to think that her mother died, rather than to think that she abandoned her to a specialist hospital. Thefact that Joyce comes to visit and sees her every so often probably confused Sick-Buffy even more, so she retreated in her 'delusion'. Which the doctors would have seen as Sick-Buffy getting worse.

[LorneyTunes]

This ep made me wanna turn it off because its just so horrible for Buffy. Joyce Alive one second dead the next Its like Buffys being tortured for saving the world x I still like it nice concept tho x

[Aethra]

I love this episode. It's definitely one of my favorites. We'd watched six years of Buffy's life, and then with this one episode, we were made to doubt if any of it had ever actually happened. That's not easy to do, but the ambiguous nature of the episode made the concept completely plausible. In my opinion, this is a completely underrated episode.

[caitaintdead]

I'm in two minds about this episode, I did enjoy it, but initially I felt a bit cheated. Joss had made me believe in Buffy and her world and then questioned it's reality. It wasn't a nice feeling! Then I decided that there had been many alternate realities shown in the Buffyverse and this just happened to be one of them. Anya said that there were millions of realities for anything you could imagine and this just happened to be one of them. So I don't think it had any bearing whatsoever on the real Buffy world. Unfortunately she was just forced to think it did.

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

I actually just watched this episode the other day and i think it has become my all time favorite episode, ahead of The Wish. I watched it with the commentary and after hearing that it just furthered my appreciation for the episode and the brilliance of it.

Wouldn't it be neat if it really all was true? I like the idea that maybe everything was just an illusion.

[LorneyTunes]

You know Buffys always wanting to be a normal Girl. Even in her other reality shes still trapped with something that no matter what she does she has to die to get out of it . she was never going to get out of that asylum unless dead !! Buffy is a bit of a masochist x

[The Kinslayer]

A lot of people criticised the ending of this episode with its lack of a definite resolution to which reality is the genuine one, ending on a shot of Buffy in the hospital.
I think that´s a great ending. You can choose what to believe. Truth be told, if you are looking it the whole situation in a realistic way, the whole asylum thing is your best bet. (Like you all didnt know that.) But which "reality" do we as viewers prefer? Come on, it´s no contest, but I think it´s a great twist. You´re thinking "Yeah, that makes so much more sence." But as Buffy you prefer the "dreamworld", so lets continue on that path.

[Aussie]

I don't really know how I feel about this episode. I did like the ending I will say that. I love it when things are left open to interpretation but at the same time it sometimes infuriates me! I think in the future I could really enjoy the episode but at the moment the who psyc ward thing hits a bit too close to home.
Do you think Buffy would have thought about it again or just forgotten about it as another spell/attack on her?

[Blondie Bear]

Do you think Buffy would have thought about it again or just forgotten about it as another spell/attack on her?

Judging by her discussion with Giles, it seems that she chose to believe that it was just part of the spell and not real at all. Or, at least, she decided that she had chosen her path and was not going to allow herself second thoughts.

[Lindsey McDonald]

I love this episode! I do personally believe that the mental hospital is the true reality, for one it give a ready made explaination for any plot holes! About Joyce dying in the "fantasy", I think that was alluded to as a side effect of Dawn's insertion. Buffy felt the need for more affection, so she created Dawn, but that just made things worse as her fantasy became unstable. This led to her "awakening" after The Gift - note that in Normal Again Buffy needed to kill off her links in the delusion to reawaken. Joyce was her biggest link with Angel gone....

Thats a point; is Buffy sub-subconciously dreaming about Angel in LA with Cordelia and the rest of the Angelverse?......this gets complicated.

[Starlet]

Not one of my favourites but still very good episode. The idea was portrayed in very interesting way. And when I first saw it the ending made me think about it for two days!
Although the concept of that hospital was really frightening.

[frayadjacent]

Just fell asleep re-watching this last night (not cuz of the episode, for this current marathon I usually just keep watching until I fall asleep and finish what I slept through the next day) and I remember all the mixed emotions I felt while watching this episode for the first time. At that time with the confusion of Buffy ending and dying on one network and starting on a new network (which I didn't know for sure was gonna happen at the time either) and with rumors that Buffy might be cancelled even on this new network - it made me seriously think that this is where they were gonna go to end the series.

It's always good to wonder...leaves the imagination open.

[white avenger]

I always thought that there would be a sequel to this episode, some sort of explanation (like that was a parallel reality like the Wish Verse, or even that the institutionalized Buffy was in our REAL world, and she and Buffyverse Buffy were in some way connected (or that there were many realities, each with identical people but living in different circumstances...) but it just never happened.

[Lindsey McDonald]

I always thought that there would be a sequel to this episode, some sort of explanation (like that was a parallel reality like the Wish Verse, or even that the institutionalized Buffy was in our REAL world, and she and Buffyverse Buffy were in some way connected (or that there were many realities, each with identical people but living in different circumstances...) but it just never happened.

See, I prefer the ambiguity. Too many things are overexplained on Buffy. It was so refreshing to be left not knowing.

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

Totally agreed. I didn't want explanation, i wanted the open ended question at the end. which is what we got. I think this episode is brilliant and as of right now, is my favorite episode.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Totally agreed. I didn't want explanation, i wanted the open ended question at the end. which is what we got. I think this episode is brilliant and as of right now, is my favorite episode.

I would actually have felt cheated if they had closed it off now that I think about it. The episode would have lost all of its power. And I always like it when shows acknowledge their more ridiculous aspects. Buffy seems to do it a lot, (e.g. in OMWF 'It's do or die...' 'Hey, I've died twice!') but this challenged the very premise of the show in a very interesting way without breaking it down.

[Superstar]

I always thought that there would be a sequel to this episode, some sort of explanation
Well, on the commentary the writers felt this would be a great season finale episode and were a bit disappointed that it wasn't used as such.

It was left open and in a way more than open.
Recall the last scenes; Buffy has made her choice. Closing scene is back in the institution after her choice has been made.

I really hope we get to revisit this premise in season 8 or 9.
I even joked about it as the series finale in another thread.

Would it invalidate the Buffyverse?
Maybe not completely. We really don't know what pushed her over the edge - knowledge that vampires are real and that she truly is the chosen slayer destined to die in battle? Is it something she possibly couldn't deal with unless she played it out in her mind first? Now that would be a total mindscrew.
You could start a whole new series with all new characters... The fractured mind of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[white avenger]

I always thought that it would be a parallel dimension thing like in "The Wish," and they would connect again at some point and straighten the whole mess out, but I guess not...

[Violette]

The ambiguous ending of this episode is what makes it great. The viewers are left with wondering & the option to choose either reality. When I watched it for the first time, I thought it's really clever how the writers made that "possible reality", that perhaps the whole show is just a product of Buffy's imagination. It links a lot of other elements too, like the fake memories of Dawn. When Buffy chose the reality of the world with vampires and demons, it really puts things into perspective... that life's reality is what you make of it.

[Five]

I remember reading that Joss had actually considered using this episode as series finale... but it wouldn't have been respectful of the fans so he abandoned the idea. Nobody else remembers this?

All in all, it was a great episode anyway. Wonderful idea, and I loved the open ending.
Haha when I remember stupid show "Charmed" tried to do exactly the same to Piper, but it was just stupidly done. Well, it was Charmed.

[white avenger]

I remember reading that Joss had actually considered using this episode as series finale... but it wouldn't have been respectful of the fans so he abandoned the idea. Nobody else remembers this?

All in all, it was a great episode anyway. Wonderful idea, and I loved the open ending.
Haha when I remember stupid show "Charmed" tried to do exactly the same to Piper, but it was just stupidly done. Well, it was Charmed.


There was a medical show several years ago, "Saint Elsewhere," in which the final episode revealed that the entire series had only been the imaginings of an autistic child, and one entire season of the night time soap opera "Dallas" was explained away as just a bad dream, so Joss wouldn't have been the first one to use that idea.

[Joyce Summers]

There was a medical show several years ago, "Saint Elsewhere," in which the final episode revealed that the entire series had only been the imaginings of an autistic child, and one entire season of the night time soap opera "Dallas" was explained away as just a bad dream, so Joss wouldn't have been the first one to use that idea.

I think Dallas is The Classic example, haha. But while those are shared concepts, Charmed actually did the same idea exactly. Infected by some outer demon thingy, woke up in a mental hospital, told she had imagined the entire thing and that she had been in a mental institution for as long as the show had been running. They also had a loved one who had died in the show named as alive in the alternate reality as well. And I believe the climax was the character about to obliterate the other characters or their powers or something much like Buffy was asked to kill her friends. Then the other characters did a whole 'We believe in you, be strong' kinda speech that pretty much mirrored Joyce's. This is the only episode I watched in it's entirety due to the fact it came on TV and I was like 'Hold the phone....'.

[crucio]

Thought it was a very good episode , but what spoiled it a bit for me was the beginning . I think it would have been more hard hitting if we didn`t know that it was the Trio`s demon that had poisoned Buffy and caused the "illusuons". Anyway still a great ep.

[Joyce Summers]

We never did really know if it was the Trio's Demon that caused it (thus making the mental institution reality false), because I believe they talk about new medication that has caused Buffy to come back to them in the same way she did in the Summer (When our Buffy was dead). So what if the new medication did treat Buffy effectively and her 'other half' percieved it as a demon attack, when really all it was, was a medical injection. Did that make sense?

I think that was the whole point of the episode- it gave two possible explanations for everything and both were as plausible as one another.

[Lindsey McDonald]

Well, as plausable as a superhero being stabbed by a demon summoned by a trio of geeks living on a Hellmouth can get!

[frayadjacent]

So were they thinking about making this the Season Finale or the SERIES finale? And if they made it the Season Finale for 6 how exactly would they have started/continued Season 7?

[hyperballadbrad]

A lot of people criticised the ending of this episode with its lack of a definite resolution to which reality is the genuine one, ending on a shot of Buffy in the hospital. Maybe it's implying there is another reality where Buffy is just a sick girl in hospital. Also why, in her delusion would Buffy kill off her own mother?

Saying that, I did like this episode. I thought the storyline reflected Buffy's feelings, throughout season 6, of wanting to escape from the world.

Want are other opinions of this ep?


I think the ending wasn't about wanting to leave the viewer questioning Buffy's reality but their own

[DrusillaRox]

I think 2 things are possibel
1. if buffy's reality was a fantasy, why would she force herself to do stuff like kill Angel and die multiple times
2. The Asylum reality is more realistic

take your pick, really

[chiigusa]

This episode always seriously makes me think. I think I would have been in utter shock had they used this for a season finale. I don't know what I would have done. Probably fainted, haha.

But, part of me wonders and thinks this 'mental institution world' is plausible, but at the same time, I can't imagine why Joss would spend 6 years writing a show so close to his heart to have it ripped from our reality.

Then again, maybe the episode was a metaphor and a parallel for the viewers. As in, we use the world of Buffy to escape from the normality and harshness of our own lives. I know I do, which is why Normal Again is a very disturbing, but eye-opening episode. One of the best of Season 6 for sure.

[sk73]

Normal Again is a brilliant episode.
It really did make you go hmm, whats happening here.

I also like the open ending, its more fun that way. Good for discussions :)

Not sure if I would want it to be the finale though... in a way it would have been quite fun, but I think it would have left you with a very empty feeling wich wouldn't had been so fun.

/SK

[BepperGirl]

This is one of my favourite Buffy episodes, second only to "Fool For Love." Part of what I love about it is the editing, which was always one of my favourite parts of the introduction to video production course I took about a year ago. (I'm minoring in film studies at uni.) The two realities were cut together so seamlessly, it's incredible. And how Dawn also exists in that reality, but as something that hasn't always been there like we know it to be. Pretty genius and when you combine it with my near on obsession with the word "normal" (well as much as one can obsess over a word or concept), you can see why I love it the way I do.

Oh and personally, I think the Buffy we had seen for the 6 years prior is the "Real 'verse." 'Cause part of what I love about the concept of "normal" is that no matter how hard the characters try, they are NOT normal (and the asylum version is more "normal" than the superhero version). I may not always agree with what's going on when the characters try to be normal, but I understand their motivations of wanting to be. Other examples of my obsession with "normal" include Veronica Mars in season 2 (after all, the title of the season 2 premiere is "Normal is the Watchword") and Liz Parker in Roswell (the fourth episode is "Leaving Normal" and by the end of that episode, Liz more or less succumbs to the fact that she won't be normal ever again, not after Max Evans said her life). Funny that, all of my examples have episode titles with the word "normal" in it at some point.

[sk8rj04]

I think 2 things are possibel
1. if buffy's reality was a fantasy, why would she force herself to do stuff like kill Angel and die multiple times?

Perhaps the times she "died" in her fantasy world in the asylum would be when she got better. At least for the time she "died" between seasons 5 and 6. If she got better and left the asylum, but had another breakdown, she could have in her mind made herself think she was in heaven for a time and was dead.

[Blondie Bear]

Perhaps the times she "died" in her fantasy world in the asylum would be when she got better. At least for the time she "died" between seasons 5 and 6. If she got better and left the asylum, but had another breakdown, she could have in her mind made herself think she was in heaven for a time and was dead.

Although, her description of heaven makes sense in terms of someone being lost in a delusion and not remembering, or wanting to remember, what happened while she was out of the delusion. I think that warm, loved, and happy all would work if she was with her family again, and without form and other fuzzy memories work for her repressing so that the delusion stays whole.

[Veyron]

I have to admit that this is one of the very few episodes that I've watched time and time again.

The very, very first time I saw this episode I sat in stunned silence for a long while afterward thinking about everything I'd just witnessed.

Things didn't make sense then and still don't - somethings make sense now after reading the other posts in this thread.

I was aware that Buffy was supposed to have extra-ordinary healing abilities prior to Normal Again, but if you actually look at each episode in regard to the injuries that are sustained then everyone has the healing ability -- this would say to me that BtVS as a whole is a fabrication made in Buffy's mind because injuries, even to those other than the Slayer, heal fast.

For example - the cut Buffy receives on her brow that needed butterfly stitches. The wound is seen several times in the episode and the scar and the wound are gone after only a few hours. The same is true of other characters, Principle Wood for example, after Spike gives him a beating in the sanctuary at the end of Lies - the next episode, which I'm presuming (I may be wrong, but given the story timeline even if a few days had passed, none of the wounds would have healed that much) was the following morning.

The timeline in BtVS is scanty at best - we know that periods as long as a year pass (Xander and Anya's wedding is referenced) without much incident (or at least anything major to the story happening) this again leads me to think that Buffy is indeed in the sanatorium.

--

Whilst she's hiding under stairs watching the Demon have at her friends, Buffy is impassive, she's just not interested in their plight and, as previously discussed in this and other threads about this episode, one way or another a choice is made and Buffy does what she does best.

Is it her loyalty to her friends, be they delusions made up in her mind or actual people in the real world that makes her choose to continue the good fight against the Bad or, is it that in a sanatorium somewhere a young girl looses the battle for her sanity and falls head-long into an almost catatonic state, thus maintaining and reinforcing the illusion - an illusion that cannot exist without the 'friends'.

--

At the end of the final episode, the survivors are wondering what to do next - a reasonable thing to do given the circumstances, but what would a once unique girl do in the future now that there are others like her in the world? If, as I'm leaning toward, Buffy is indeed in a sanatorium now that she and the gang have survived the last Big Bad and are now apparently free to do what they will - would she recover and return to the 'real' world or is she too far gone? Now that there's nothing to keep her in Sunnydale (apart from the fact that it no longer exists) why keep up the fantasy?

--

I suppose Joss had Season 8 and beyond planned and possibly already written at the end of Season 7 but S.M.G. (Sarah Michelle Gellar) decided she'd had enough of Buffy and wanted out to pursue other projects - a choice that I disagree with, but have to respect.

I agree with what James Marsters said - I think there were at least another two seasons worth of Buffy stories to be told before the writers would have ran dry, but after seven years playing the same character at twenty-two episodes per season, I think S.M.G. had had more than enough.

Of course, I want more Buffy - I would simply love the series to make a long awaited comeback and I'm certain in my mind that if the scripts, story arcs and the hunger to do it was there in S.M.G. and the everyone else involved in the original that it could be done - we can only hope eh?

--

So, my current way of thinking is that Buffy is indeed in a sanatorium living the life of the Slayer, battling away against everything evil as we know it - and the demons in her own head -- she's adding layers to the illusion all the time and it all seems so believable to her, and to some extent us. We are embroiled in the fantasy as though it was indeed real-life.

Normal Again is thought provoking for me time and time again and the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Buffy is in the sanatorium - and makes me think about myself - am I in one too - is my life, boring, empty and unfulfilled as it is one huge delusion? Am I really sitting at my PC writing this or am I a bumbling mess some place?

Heavy, heavy stuff... and Joss planted the seed in all of our heads knowing that this particular episode would provoke all of these thoughts - he knew he'd piss off so many people in so many different ways and that's why, when all is said and done, he's a master story-teller.

[The Kinslayer]

For example - the cut Buffy receives on her brow that needed butterfly stitches. The wound is seen several times in the episode and the scar and the wound are gone after only a few hours. The same is true of other characters, Principle Wood for example, after Spike gives him a beating in the sanctuary at the end of Lies - the next episode, which I'm presuming (I may be wrong, but given the story timeline even if a few days had passed, none of the wounds would have healed that much) was the following morning.
Scars or wounds are rarely shown (in any show) more than absolutely "needed". Not logical at all, but the way things usually are. Even though Buffy is a show way above average it isn´t without (logical) "mistakes". But we wouldn´t be the fans we are if we wouldn´t try to find logical explanations for every single thing.

Even if I don´t remember the exact quote Joss has admitted that logic isn´t his strongest point.

Am I really sitting at my PC writing this or am I a bumbling mess some place?
My vote goes to the first, since it would freak me out completely if more than one person "includes" me in their "fantasyword". But then there´s always the possibility that you are all part of "my" world. I think I need to go and lie down now...

[InsaneMystic]

The timeline in BtVS is scanty at best - we know that periods as long as a year pass (Xander and Anya's wedding is referenced) without much incident (or at least anything major to the story happening) this again leads me to think that Buffy is indeed in the sanatorium.
Huh? Where do you reckon a year passes without incident? ???

[Veyron]

Huh? Where do you reckon a year passes without incident? ???

To be honest with you InsaneMystic, I don't think there's any place on the planet that doesn't have some sort of incident at some point during a year. The point I was trying to get across, and obviously I failed (no disrespect intended by the way), is that the time line of BtVS is skewed.

Yes, we are all aware that the show takes place over at least seven years... We are made aware of the time of year it is by the fact that there are Halloween episodes, at least one Christmas episode, Thanksgiving (even though I don't actually know when that is being English) etc etc.

The events of the last few episodes in Season 7 take place when? I certainly don't know and I'm not sure I'd even chance guessing. All I am certain of is that the events that take place happen in a very, very short period of time.

[InsaneMystic]

Ok I'm getting confused... I understood your post to mean that there is some kind of "skipped year" somewhere in the series, and what I meant with my question is where do you see that "skip" taking place?

(I have to admit, my knowledge of S7 isn't the best, I've only seen that season once up till now and don't have it on tape yet.)

[Veyron]

Scars or wounds are rarely shown (in any show) more than absolutely "needed". Not logical at all, but the way things usually are. Even though Buffy is a show way above average it isn´t without (logical) "mistakes". But we wouldn´t be the fans we are if we wouldn´t try to find logical explanations for every single thing.

Even if I don´t remember the exact quote Joss has admitted that logic isn´t his strongest point.

Agreed that ugly wounds, scars, blood, guts and gore aren't the main stream in TV and nor should they be - but the arguement for and against the showing of the result of violence is a totally different subject - although I'd like to say that showing the victim of such violence in all it's graphic detail would for me, if I were a teenager in today's modern society where knife crime, shootings, robbery and a whole load of other crimes are committed each and every day on our streets (both here in the UK and I'm certain in parts of the US) put me off committing such crimes as I'm appalled by the whole thing. Some human beings are, with a shadow of a doubt in my mind the worst predators on the planet - and anyone, no matter who they are - should be locked away for the rest of their days for committing such crimes regardless of the severity of the crime - innocent people shouldn't have to live their lives in fear that next time they go down to the local corner store for a bottle of milk or a loaf of bread that they might not make it back home to their families in one piece.

My point on BtVS however, is that the Slayer and her friends always seem ready for the next fight regardless of how much damage is inflicted upon them by the Bad - they never seem to grow weary due to lack of sleep or hungry due to the lack of food. The wounds always seem to miraculously heal as though they never existed - which in the mind of someone living in a fantasy is proper and expected - if you were living in a day-dream where you or your friends got badly hurt on a regular basis wouldn't you want them to heal as quickly as possible? I know I would.

My vote goes to the first, since it would freak me out completely if more than one person "includes" me in their "fantasyword". But then there´s always the possibility that you are all part of "my" world. I think I need to go and lie down now...

Ah, but is it *your* fantasy world or mine we're experiencing here - your reply could have been conjured up by my sub-concious as a reality check for me... or vice versa... my original post could have been your minds way of getting past the freak out reaction that everyone would most certainly have in that circumstance to tell you that it's okay to imagine and fantasize about people you didn't even know existed twenty-four hours ago.

Edit:

Ok I'm getting confused... I understood your post to mean that there is some kind of "skipped year" somewhere in the series, and what I meant with my question is where do you see that "skip" taking place?

(I have to admit, my knowledge of S7 isn't the best, I've only seen that season once up till now and don't have it on tape yet.)

When the skip takes place is a damned good question - and it's one that I can't answer. As I said on my very first post of the board when I said Hello to the board membership, I came here to express my thoughts to the populace, but more importantly to gain insight into the show from other, more experienced people.

Like you, my knowledge of Season 7 is limited at best. But, the comments I'm making are from my own observations rather than known or previously stated elsewhere facts.

[insanezenmiss]

i think they skipped the whol esecond and third year of college for Willow........somewhere between S5 and S6 willow went thru half of year 2 and half of year 3.

I think....as i am writing this i am recalling a handfull of *going to class* statements.....( and i notice willow never took a finial).....humm

[UnKle]

Perhaps the times she "died" in her fantasy world in the asylum would be when she got better. At least for the time she "died" between seasons 5 and 6. If she got better and left the asylum, but had another breakdown, she could have in her mind made herself think she was in heaven for a time and was dead.
This is true, as far as it's made to sound in the ep. When she was pulled from Heaven, she struggled for a long time to make sense of what she lost and why she had to be back (I think she still struggles with it on some level). Here's a bit of a scene from this ep that should shed light on this (emphasis mine):

Buffy: I wanna go home, with you and dad.

Joyce: I know, Buffy. But first you’ve gotta get better.

Doctor: It’s not gonna be easy, Buffy, you have to take it one step at a time. You have to start ridding your mind of those things that support your hallucinations. You understand? There are things in that world that you cling to. For your delusion, they’re safe-holds, but for your mind they’re traps. We have to break those down.

Buffy: ...slaying?

Doctor: Yes... but I’m talking about those things you want there. What keeps you going back.

Buffy: My friends.

Doctor: That’s right. Last summer, when you had a momentary awakening, it was them that pulled you back in.

Joyce: They’re not really your friends, Buffy. They’re just... tricks keeping you from getting healthy.

Doctor: You have to do whatever it takes to convince yourself of that, Buffy. Whatever it takes.
For me, that cinches it. I'm pretty much on that bus when it comes to believing this whole thing exists in the mind of a lonely, scared girl locked up in a mental ward. But still, feeling that doesn't detract a bit from the rest of the whole adventures of the Scoobies because, like Buffy, they're also the reality I know.

[caritas08]

To anyone who is concerned that the asylum reality is the real one consider this.....

if everything is part of Buffy's mind and a figment of her imagination than how do you explain the tv show Angel? There are characters and events on that show that Buffy would have no way of knowing about so they can't be part of her dream world. To me this is definate proof that Buffy's vampire world is real and the insane asylum was a cruel attack from the Trio.

EDIT: (Sorry. I somehow missed where Five By Five makes the same point in an earlier post.)

[UnKle]

To anyone who is concerned that the asylum reality is the real one consider this.....

if everything is part of Buffy's mind and a figment of her imagination than how do you explain the tv show Angel? There are characters and events on that show that Buffy would have no way of knowing about so they can't be part of her dream world. To me this is definate proof that Buffy's vampire world is real and the insane asylum was a cruel attack from the Trio.

EDIT: (Sorry. I somehow missed where Five By Five makes the same point in an earlier post.)
Hi there. Great question. Because, I suppose, Buffy doesn't have to be at the center of all of her imaginings. I can sit here and fantasize about another life, somewhere else, lived by other people, and I'm nowhere in the mix. Like, perhaps, how I think about what happens with Buffy and her crew in the summers between seasons. I can also sit here and think about what's going on with people I might have once known, but haven't seen in years, like she might be doing with Angel.

I think it's great we all have different opinions about what's real and what's not on the show. I just know that, for me, what compels me more in this episode is the other side of the coin. And in the end, it's all good, right?

Like I said, though, even though I'm inclined to believe that Buffy's actually sitting in a hospital eating jello through a paper straw, doesn't mean that I don't look at her fantasies as the reality. I know that seems contradictory and confusing, but... the best way I can explain it in a sentence is that they are the reality for Buffy, and they are the only reality I've known while I've traveled with Buffy, and therefore while I might feel like on some level that she's actually back in that ward, my gut feeling is to move toward the familiar setting in Sunnydale, with the Scoobies, and the vampires, and everything else. And like Buffy, I just choose to shut out the hospital, and go with the friends. But unlike Buffy, a part of me still thinks that "reality" rumbles just below the surface of fantasy. There's such a blur between these two things sometimes in life, that sometimes people do slip over the edge and don't come back.

There's a question in physics where you're asked to prove that a chair is real, or provide proof that you exist, and that you're not merely in a complex fantasy, and that things really are happening all around you in reality - but the fact still remains that there's no real way to prove it's the reality of everyone you meet, and that it's not just your reality. To put it in a pop culture reference, check out "The Matrix". For such a kick-ass action flick, it sure gives you a lot to think about.

I think Joss is a genius. He must've known that fans would wrestle with this in exactly the way Buffy wrestled with it. Is it real? What's not real? Is the ward real, or are the friends real? We each have our own opinions. The man has managed to bring even deeper empathy to the character, just when you might've thought you couldn't get any more into her head and her feelings. It's definitely a good sign when the audience begins to experience the same feelings and wrestles with the same issues that the characters do. In some way, he puts a macrocosmic mirror up for us with this, and we're all not sure about what we're seeing.

[Superstar]

To anyone who is concerned that the asylum reality isn't the real one consider this.....
Reality shifts were present long before this episode to make one wonder about the Buffyverse as "reality".

One of the most striking and not oft mentioned is Dracula's Castle.
Another is the seemingly very quietly and quickly constructed Initiative HQ.

Riley: I've lived in Sunnydale a couple of years now. Know what I've never noticed before?
Giles: Uh, a castle?
Riley: A big honking castle.

Buffy: Who are you?
Dracula: I apologize. I assumed you knew. I am Dracula.
<<Buffy's eyes widen and she looks delighted.>>
Buffy: Get out!

I can't help but wonder if a Slayer would be curious and "delighted" to meet "Dracula" enough to fabricate it.

[Superstar]

Here's another example of reality shift:
BUFFY: Who are you?
ANDREW: Andrew.
<<Buffy shrugs and shakes her head to show her lack of recognition.>>
ANDREW: I summoned the flying monkeys that attacked the high school?
<<Willow and Buffy exchange a confused look.>>
ANDREW: During the school play, you know?
WARREN: It's Tucker's brother.
JONATHAN: Yeah, it's Tucker's brother.
BUFFY/WILLOW: Ohh.

It doesn't work for Buffy to be omniscient in her own fantasy.
She just goes with the flow.

[white avenger]

Maybe the asylum where they had Dream Buffy locked in was the one that Spike visited later, and Beta George was playing mind games with her.

[littlewilly]

When the skip takes place is a damned good question - and it's one that I can't answer.
.

What skip? I dont remember any skip.

[Veyron]

What skip? I dont remember any skip.


We where talking about the time line.

Events occur both prior to and after Xander and Anya's wedding as we are aware.

However, in a later episode we're told that a year has passed since the failed marriage attempt, but we don't know exactly what's gone on.

What month are we in?

What's happened in the intervening year since the wedding? Has something critical occurred and we're just not told about it? Or has it been a quiet year at the Hellmouth?

The time line from when Buffy was pulled out of "Heaven" and returned to her friends was three months or so ago the Doctor in the Asylum says during 'Normal Again' but are we to assume that during the three months since she went back into the fantasy world that is Sunnydale Buffy's been getting treatment and has had a bad reaction to the meds she's on, which is why she's been feeling out of it? Why she doesn't feel right?

But of course the skipped year could also be, as stated by insanezenmiss, who rightly says that a section of Willow's education was skipped. After Willow and Tara get together we don't see much of them attending class, then apart from one or two episodes after their breakup, we don't see Willow in college much at all until Buffy, during the episode where she's trying to restart her education has a hard time coping due to the Trio's interference.

[littlewilly]

Lets see, the last time i remember something to go by was Buffys birthday in s6, Older and far away(january).
Then the rest of s6 continues with the normal timeline till start of s7 when SD high is ready for the new school year.(august)
So is there no Birthday, halloween or christmas in s7?
What episode was it(roughly) when they said a year had passed since the wedding?

Edit:


The time line from when Buffy was pulled out of "Heaven" and returned to her friends was three months or so ago the Doctor in the Asylum says during 'Normal Again'

But of course the skipped year could also be, as stated by insanezenmiss, who rightly says that a section of Willow's education was skipped. After Willow and Tara get together we don't see much of them attending class, then apart from one or two episodes after their breakup, we don't see Willow in college much at all until Buffy, during the episode where she's trying to restart her education has a hard time coping due to the Trio's interference.

The Doctor dosnt say anything like 'it was 3 months or so'. He says ''last summer when you had a momentary awakening it was them that pulled you back in''.
Between s5 and s6 Buffy was in heaven for about 3 months, then she was brought back, and time continued as normal, with Halloween, Birthday etc. Then the wedding, which id assume was around February/March, then as i said before, Dawn starts school again August. So maybe when they said it been a year since the wedding(wherever it is) it actually had been a year.

And the education thing, insanezenmiss never 'rightly says', she speculated. There was no 'Skipped' education at all. It just wasnt focused on(why would it be)

[fly on the wall]

...Do we expect to see every moment of every character's life on screen for an allotted hour per week? And if we don't, it means Buffy's only imagining it?
Well then, I guess every TV show is someone's schizophrenic delusion...

[caritas08]

Hi there. Great question. Because, I suppose, Buffy doesn't have to be at the center of all of her imaginings. I can sit here and fantasize about another life, somewhere else, lived by other people, and I'm nowhere in the mix. Like, perhaps, how I think about what happens with Buffy and her crew in the summers between seasons. I can also sit here and think about what's going on with people I might have once known, but haven't seen in years, like she might be doing with Angel..

Yes but how can Buffy fantasize about something she is completely unaware of. Buffy doesn't know anything about a fraction of what goes on on Angel so how can that be part of her fantasy. If you think about what happens to Buffy between seasons than that is part of your fantasy and you are aware of it. Buffy has no idea who half the characters are on Angel which therefore indicates that the fantasy part of the Buffyverse is real with other characters conscious of what's going on regardless of whether Buffy is dead or alive, sane or crazy. The universe exists apart from her and is not dependent on her consciousness (or insanity) to exist.

[InsaneMystic]

Yes but how can Buffy fantasize about something she is completely unaware of.
Like, um, because it's fantasizing? (duh!)

Buffy doesn't know anything about a fraction of what goes on on Angel so how can that be part of her fantasy. If you think about what happens to Buffy between seasons than that is part of your fantasy and you are aware of it. Buffy has no idea who half the characters are on Angel which therefore indicates that the fantasy part of the Buffyverse is real with other characters conscious of what's going on regardless of whether Buffy is dead or alive, sane or crazy. The universe exists apart from her and is not dependent on her consciousness (or insanity) to exist.
Let me put it this way. The entire Angel series might be compared to a series of fanfiction short stories that introduces a new character every once in a while. Most of the AI regulars are people from Buffy's "main life" anyway - Angel, Cordy, Wes, Harm. Major sub-arcs revolved about Darla & Faith (Buffy characters, again). Fred's & Groo's introduction was through the Pylea arc (and seriously, that's an arc screaming "psychotic dreamer" if you give the theory half a chance!), so the only real "problems" would be Gunn (often complained about to be "badly written") and Doyle (killed off very soon and replaced by someone we already knew from "Buffy")... if we accept NA as the truth, maybe Buffy just didn't give Gunn & Doyle that much attention.

And who can tell if Buffy does or doesn't know what happens on "Angel"? She might have the happenings "compartmentalized" away in her psychotic brain, and in those cases where information would relevantly cross over, just deny to herself that she knows. Actually, this would be an excellent in-'verse explanation for the strangeness of BS7 vs. AS4. One of the best explanations why Sunnydale never fell under Jasmine's influence and noone knew of the great eclispe over LA is because "that's Angel's life and I'm not supposed to know (psychotic giggle)".

[Lindsey McDonald]

And to think I'd been ignoring this topic thinking people would all be going on about the same thing....

Right, so, the existence of Angel. I don't think it disproves the NA theory. Let's see what the doctor said about her condition:

Doctor: The Slayer, right, but that's only one level. She's also created an intricate latticework to support her primary delusion. In her mind, she's the central figure in a fantastic world beyond imagination

Intricate latticework? Primary delusion? So her being the Slayer is her main delusion, and all the friends and people of Sunnydale are part of the latticework supporting this. Does this mean there are Secondary delusions? Could Angel's life in LA be one of these. Could the entirety of Firefly and Dollhouse be one of these?!? :silly:

Now, something more relevant:

It's not gonna be easy, Buffy. You have to take it one step at a time. You have to start ridding your mind of those things that support your hallucinations. (Buffy looking up at him) You understand? There are things in that world that you cling to. For your delusion, they're safe-holds, but for your mind they're traps. We have to break those down

So, in order to come back to reality, Buffy must get rid of everything she loves in the delusion. Hmmm. Now, this is hard for me to say, but Buffy did love Spike. Sorry. Angel. Buffy loved.....Angel. Once. Briefly. But no longer.


Oh, wait, I was making a point, wasn't I? So when Angel left Sunnydale, the delusion would be hard hit. "There are things in the world that [she] cling[s] to." I'd assume Angel would be one of them. For this reason, I think it's safe to assume that crazy!Buffy clung to the delusion of Angel and subconciously set up his life in LA. This, understandibly, would be quite a strain on her poor little schizophrenic mind, and could have contributed to the breakdown post insertion of Dawn. Also: when Buffy died, we saw none of it on Angel. There was a completely seperate story strand that suddenly imploded with the news. Nothing more happened/was seen till Buffy's resurection.

IM also made some great points about the Angelverse being primarily inhabited with Buffy castoffs. (Not that Cordelia and Spike were castoffs in the unwanted sense, but regarding her mind). They would help support the delusion.

So, in my opinion, Angel the Series could slot in quite nicely with the Normal Again theory of schizophrenia.

[Superstar]

There are actually quite a few parallels between the two series as contrast (opposites motif continues from series).

Buffy season 4/Angel season 1 - Buffy is gone from Angel's life (or vice versa), Faith (Buffy's great holdover fear) comes into Angel's life as "replacement".
Buffy season 5/Angel season 2 - Just as Buffy is getting ready to sacrifice herself and "die" Angel goes to "Oz" (purgatory).
Buffy season 6/Angel season 3 - Buffy bereft of all zest for life, Angel gets new life; a son. She regains zest/Angel loses son.
Buffy season 7/Angel season 4 - Buffy is fighting The First's Hell coming to earth (end of all things), Angel is fighting a force which is ambiguous in objective overall - first kill everyone (end of all things) then inexplicably turns to peace on earth; the flip/flop comes at the end once Buffy knows how to defeat The First. Can't have the end of all things on two fronts once hope is found
Angel season 5 - Angel and Spike - two vampires once in her life are now teamed up together (so to speak) and Buffy has moved on.

[Buffanator]

I think it's all of Y'ALL who are the crazy ones. :lmao:

Buffy is REAL. Her life in Sunnydale is REAL. Her friends are all REAL.... slaying demons is REAL. All of it is REAL.

I believe this because I love Spike, & I can't bear the thought of Spike NOT being real! : erm : ::huh1:: :whistle:

[Lindsey McDonald]

I think it's all of Y'ALL who are the crazy ones. :lmao:

Buffy is REAL. Her life in Sunnydale is REAL. Her friends are all REAL.... slaying demons is REAL. All of it is REAL.

I believe this because I love Spike, & I can't bear the thought of Spike NOT being real! : erm : ::huh1:: :whistle:

Ah, but no-one's saying we don't live inside Buffy's head too, so he could be just as real as the rest of us!

[InsaneMystic]

Ah, but no-one's saying we don't live inside Buffy's head too, so he could be just as real as the rest of us!
That would imply Buffy Summers (a hospitalized girl suffering from catatonic schizophrenia) has the delusion to be an actress called "Sarah Michelle Gellar", who plays a vampire slayer, strangely enough called "Buffy Summers", in a TV show? And "Joss Whedon" would be what - some kind of an "inner observer" persona of hers?

This theory is getting crazier by the minute. No way to disprove it, however. (Ah, the joy of solipsism.)

[fly on the wall]

I don't think this has been said before, but it's been bugging me.

The fact that her parents shipped her off to an insane asylum for a week pre-Sunnydale is so very inconsistent with the rest of the series. Why wouldn't Buffy have mentioned this before, even in passing? Like "I can't tell my mom about being a slayer, last time I tried she thought I was crazy." Buffy claims that in the institution, she stopped talking about vampires, they let her go, and her parents just forgot about it. Does that seem likely? Does it seem likely that you send your child to a mental institution for a week because she's hallucinating about vampires, and then you FORGET about it? And when Buffy tells her mom she's the Slayer in S2, why didn't Joyce say anything like, "Oh no, this again?" or "I thought these hallucinations stopped" or "Should I get you help again?" I mean, it just doesn't make sense.

I'm not using this to support whether or not Buffy's life is real or a delusion. Frankly, I think it's real (well, "real" in context of a fictional TV show), and if it had all been a delusion of Buffy's, I think that would greatly take away from how great the show is. But when Buffy told Willow that side-story, I was just like "What....?" Bugs me.

[DarkAvenger]

well, i think they only came up with this idea (that buffy was sent to a mental institution when she was a child) in this season that's why she never mentioned it before.. :/ i guess..

[Lindsey McDonald]

I don't think this has been said before, but it's been bugging me.

The fact that her parents shipped her off to an insane asylum for a week pre-Sunnydale is so very inconsistent with the rest of the series. Why wouldn't Buffy have mentioned this before, even in passing? Like "I can't tell my mom about being a slayer, last time I tried she thought I was crazy." Buffy claims that in the institution, she stopped talking about vampires, they let her go, and her parents just forgot about it. Does that seem likely? Does it seem likely that you send your child to a mental institution for a week because she's hallucinating about vampires, and then you FORGET about it? And when Buffy tells her mom she's the Slayer in S2, why didn't Joyce say anything like, "Oh no, this again?" or "I thought these hallucinations stopped" or "Should I get you help again?" I mean, it just doesn't make sense.

I'm not using this to support whether or not Buffy's life is real or a delusion. Frankly, I think it's real (well, "real" in context of a fictional TV show), and if it had all been a delusion of Buffy's, I think that would greatly take away from how great the show is. But when Buffy told Willow that side-story, I was just like "What....?" Bugs me.

That always did annoy me too. I did think that it may perhaps be a Dawn memory though. It wasn't mentioned in Season two, cause it never happened, but perhaps if Joyce had had another younger child to think about, it could have come to that. That cuts down on the inconsistencies. Either that, or it's a symptom of Buffy's delusion breaking down, if you want to believe that.


Or, y'know, plot hole.

[sk73]

ok, I agree that reason for the mental institution not being mention is of course that the writers didn't know about it until this episode...

But I have no problem with this.
To me that probably isn't anything that you talk about.
Don't think anyone actually forgot about it, just something that they (silently) agreed not to talk about.

And in S2 I guess it was much going on. Joyce had just seen some weird stuff and I can see why see didn't bring it up at that moment.
Besides, Joyce says something about Buffy needing help. And Buffy answers that she's not crazy.
If you want you can take that as some kind of reference to the mental institution incident :)

/SK

[Lindsey McDonald]

ok, I agree that reason for the mental institution not being mention is of course that the writers didn't know about it until this episode...

But I have no problem with this.
To me that probably isn't anything that you talk about.
Don't think anyone actually forgot about it, just something that they (silently) agreed not to talk about.

And in S2 I guess it was much going on. Joyce had just seen some weird stuff and I can see why see didn't bring it up at that moment.
Besides, Joyce says something about Buffy needing help. And Buffy answers that she's not crazy.
If you want you can take that as some kind of reference to the mental institution incident :)

/SK

The incident that is most often brought up as being a problem was way back before Joyce knew of Buffy's Slayerness. I can't remember the episode name, but they were in a store (it may have been circa Prophecy Girl buying a dress) and Buffy mentions fighting vampires in passing. Joyce isn't at all affected, which would be strange if she had put her daughter in an institution only a few years ago for the same thing. That's why I think it's a Dawn memory. It doesn't fit otherwise.

[sk73]

The incident that is most often brought up as being a problem was way back before Joyce knew of Buffy's Slayerness. I can't remember the episode name, but they were in a store (it may have been circa Prophecy Girl buying a dress) and Buffy mentions fighting vampires in passing. Joyce isn't at all affected, which would be strange if she had put her daughter in an institution only a few years ago for the same thing. That's why I think it's a Dawn memory. It doesn't fit otherwise.
hmm, I guess you mean from Bad Eggs
Joyce: A little responsibility is all I ask. Honestly, don't you ever think about anything besides boys and clothes?
Buffy: Saving the world from vampires?
Joyce: I swear, sometimes I don't know what goes on in your head.

I would take that as Joyce thinks it is a really bad joke from Buffy.
That Buffy actually is saying, well remember that time when I talked about vampires. I didn't think of boys and clothes then.
And Joyce is in disbelief on how inappropriate that was.

Buffy also mention Vampires so Joyce hears it in Killed by Death.
That time its just the fever talking though, so I understand why Joyce let it passed that time also.

/SK

[pernilleborup]

It was an absolutely brilliant episode. It was so twisted. It totally made my view on the Buffyverse change. I can go crazy thinking about it. So many things makes sense if she really was mentally ill, and it just...What the worst part is, we never really found out what it was. Was it real, or not.

One of the most brilliant episodes ever. Truly

[fly on the wall]

hmm, I guess you mean from Bad Eggs
Joyce: A little responsibility is all I ask. Honestly, don't you ever think about anything besides boys and clothes?
Buffy: Saving the world from vampires?
Joyce: I swear, sometimes I don't know what goes on in your head.

I would take that as Joyce thinks it is a really bad joke from Buffy.
That Buffy actually is saying, well remember that time when I talked about vampires. I didn't think of boys and clothes then.
And Joyce is in disbelief on how inappropriate that was.

Buffy also mention Vampires so Joyce hears it in Killed by Death.
That time its just the fever talking though, so I understand why Joyce let it passed that time also.

/SK

Buffy also lets vampires slip in Witch (S1) when she's under Amy's mom's spell...and it just does NOT seem likely that these many references wouldn't jostle Joyce if she'd put Buffy into a mental institution for the same kind of talk.

Sure, maybe she takes it to be bad jokes, or a fever, or whatever...but she shows no real concern. In Witch, she asks Buffy if she's feeling all right...but wouldn't she become VERY worried that her delusions were back? In Bad Eggs, wouldn't her face fall, wouldn't she look worried, frightened, upset, instead of just idly saying "Oh, what an imagination you have."

I mean, it just doesn't make sense...it seems that it's a Dawn memory (although we've been under the impression that Dawn was just sort of inserted into the memories that were already there; she didn't change anything. Unless I'm mistaken) or it's a plot hole.

[sk73]

Well, as I said from the beginning, of course it is a inconsistency, or plot hole, if you like.
I just don't have a big problem with it since Joyce behavior makes good enough sense to me.

I have a much bigger problem with that the monks would add some random memory of a mental institution. Why would they?
Than having Joyce, probably worrying about Buffy, but not making a big deal out of the fact that Buffy has some strange ideas about vampires.

I had forget about the witch episode though.
It doesn't exactly help my cause. But Joyce do look worried and ask if Buffy feels alright etc.
She acts a bit too suprised at the vampire slayer comment I admit... maybe she was just suprised hearing that coming up again or something :)

/SK

[Lindsey McDonald]

Well, as I said from the beginning, of course it is a inconsistency, or plot hole, if you like.
I just don't have a big problem with it since Joyce behavior makes good enough sense to me.

I have a much bigger problem with that the monks would add some random memory of a mental institution. Why would they?
Than having Joyce, probably worrying about Buffy, but not making a big deal out of the fact that Buffy has some strange ideas about vampires.

I had forget about the witch episode though.
It doesn't exactly help my cause. But Joyce do look worried and ask if Buffy feels alright etc.
She acts a bit too suprised at the vampire slayer comment I admit... maybe she was just suprised hearing that coming up again or something :)

/SK

I get the feeling that the monks added in Dawn, and the memory creation snowballed by itself from their. And, if they did handcraft each memory, that could have been an experience of Buffy being torn away from Dawn and not liking it. Therefore, she's more likely (even subconciously) to protect her family.

[EveryNiteISaveU]

Well I think it sorta does fit. Even though Joyce as a character grew as the series went on...I definitely saw Joyce as a super push-over type mom. Apparently she was put into an institution when her parents were still together, so you never know..it could have been at the encouragement of Buffy's father, and then after a week Joyce could have been "Eh...whatever."

[fly on the wall]

I don't think it's out-of-character for Joyce to have wanted Buffy in an institution. I think it's out-of-plot for that to have happened at all. We heard NOTHING about it for six seasons, then all of a sudden it pops up cuz it would make for an interesting episode.

[Darling]

I think she is really delusional u.u

[Veyron]

As I've said before on this thread, I think that she's delusional myself. She's in the institution and the whole of Buffy and Angel is a huge fantasy world that she's built up. Why this occurred in the first place is a mystery - she might have seen one too many vampire movies as a young child and became fixated by the mythology of them that she created the roles of Slayer, Watchers, her friends and the Big Bads. Angel would have been a side track fantasy in which she appears every now and then just to keep up the relationship with the characters she's created.

So that would mean that Bangel and Spuffy and all of the other relationships created by Buffy are all false positives. Her first love Angel disappears after Graduation and rather than be alone she wants to find a new love, hence the one night stand - which turns out badly for her, and then Riley, which doesn't go that well either considering her track record. Enter Spike. She knows that she has an over-all attraction for vampires (hence her being in the institution in the first place) and because Angel isn't available she goes for Spike, and we all know that right up until near the end of the final season she's playing with Spike's emotions - bedding him, then rejecting him, accepting him as something more than a vampire once he gets his soul back - you know the rest.

Why Buffy is playing games with Spike though is a thought provoking thing. She's already been hurt by her first love who tried to kill her. Her second relationship turned out to be a one night stand with a player and Riley and the initiative turned out not to be as good a thing as she first suspected. Her inbred fear of being hurt by her lovers or potential lovers is what keeps both Riley and Spike at arms length and why Buffy lets Riley go in the first instance - even though she throws caution to the wind and tries to get Riley to stay with her.

Riley of course lives up to her expectations and on his return to Sunnydale with his wife he shatters that part of the illusion. So now all her focus in so far as a relationship now goes to Spike. She knows what he is, what is reputation says about him and because of that she blows hot and cold with him - she rejects his advances, plays her own sexual games with him (see Gone), rejects his pleas of unrequited love and then when she feels that the game has gone far enough she opens herself up to him. Only because Spike made his feelings known to her on numerous occassions does Buffy decide to continue the relationship between them - Spike gets his soul back and this is what Buffy needs to happen as Spike is no longer a demon in her eyes. He's a man again, and it's a man she wants to have 'the' relationship with.

In reality each of us knows deep down inside what we want out of a partner - whether we hold out for that ultimate person or go with the one who's closest at that particular point in our lives is again something that each of us must decide upon on a case by case basis. Buffy's delusion reaches the point where she's got to make up her mind about having a relationship with Spike and I feel that she actually accepts him as her lover, friend, confidant and ultimately the one she wants to spend the rest of her life with - be he a vampire with a soul (as her first love was) or not.

Knowing what Spike is however isn't enough as I think that Buffy's own insecurities about relationships and Spike's reputation (see the accidental time he slept with Anya and the numerous times he's slept with Harmony) with other women make her think that sooner or later he's going to reject her and move on to his next sexual conquest which is why at the end of Chosen she's in two minds about him - she tells him she loves him, Spike's classic reply, "No, you don't, but thanks for saying it." or words that effect is her way of justifying ending the relationship by testing Spike one final time.

In her brain Buffy has come to the decision (rightly or wrongly) that he'd probably do what ever other man in her life has done and left her when she needs him the most and with the classic line as described above she's said come with me and live (with me) but her delusional thought patterns and the feeling that she knows he's going to reject her (again rightly or wrongly) makes her make Spike tell her to leave which she does, Spike ends up dying as far as she's aware and this lets the illusion of her life move on her concious clear - she no longer needs to be concerned about a man in her life and her mixed up feelings.

Her appearances in Angel firstly sleeping with Angel and then later after the rest of the world is reset by twenty-four hours (except for Angel) and her arguement(s) with him tell her that her initial thoughts about the men in her life have been proven correct. They'll use you for what they can get and then leave - in this case it's her leaving him, but it's the same principal.

So all in all - Buffy knows that she's never going to have a meaningful relationship with man or vampire and lets them all go because she knows she's in an institution for the rest of life and not having a relationship is the only way to make her life that much easier.

Obviously season 8 and the events therein aren't taken into consideration here.

[luckystar]

great post veyron and i agree with all you said i analised this episode many times even though i cant put it into words as good as you i agree with you, it makes perfect sense

[palabravampiress]

Hmm. I'm not sure I would analyze Normal Again all in terms of her romantic relationships. She did decide not to drink the antidote after Spike threatened to expose their relationship, so I do think her feelings about that relationship did influence her; however, her relationships with Dawn, the Scoobies, and even her parents were clearly front-and-center in her decision making, as well. I have to go to PT, so I don't have time for a long reply, but I'll try to say more when I get back.