Angel's Plan?

[The Ferg]

Did you guys think Angel's plan in "Not Fade Away" was all that great? Here's what I would've done:
Angel vs. Hamilton (the Archduke's spiking of the drink too)
Illyria vs. The Wizard that Wes faced
Wesley getting the baby
Spike vs. Senator and Vamps
Gunn vs. The devil dude in the car. (Spike and Gunn could probably be switched)
Lindsay and Lorne vs. those other guys... (the same as Angel's plan)

I think my plan would've had no deaths.

[Tranquillity]

I think my plan would've had no deaths.

Except Lindsey - Lorne would have still shot him.
I like your thinking, but it ignores the metaphoric/symbolic reasons that each of them are given their missions.

[white avenger]

If I had been Angel, the first thing I would have done would be to recruit more help. The first ones who come to mind are Gwen and Gunn's old crew, but over 5 years, Angel must have come across a few trustworthy people/things who would have been willing to help stop Wolfram & Hart take over the world, either because it was the right thing to do, or simply to protect their own turf from invasion by another, much stronger, "gang."

Secondly, wherever possible, I would have assured that NOBODY went in alone. Hamilton was obviously the most powerful, so a coordinated attack on him would have been the first priority (Connor's showing up when he did was the only thing that saved Angel and gave him the chance to get the job done, and even then it was sheer luck in the form of Hamilton's "You cant stop us, we are Legion..." boast that won the day. Alone, Angel would have been dust long before that point). Angel facing him alone was sheer ego and bravado. Even as only a distraction, a few extra people would have helped. Okay, they might have been killed, but remember, Angel told his own crew that few, if any, of them would survive the night, so the whole thing was a suicide mission to begin with.

Then, I would have had Illyria accompany Wesley in the first place to take out the wizard, even if it meant having her wait outside until she heard the fight start, then crashing in to back Wesley up. Better yet, have HER appear to betray the others and give Wes the opportunity to come in with some serious weaponry, not just an ineffective fire ball spell ( this is a wizard capable of manipulating time, for pity's sake, you can't expect a mere human to be any match for him.) and a sleeve knife.

Having Spike rescue the baby was practically a given, as that was a one man job, requiring the rescuer to face an entire room full of demons literally single handedly while holding the baby in the other. He was the single best fighter of the group, and had the best chance of getting the job done with any degree of success.

Gunn would have one or more of his crew as back up taking out the Senator and her staff, because that was, once again, not a one man job, and his friends had plenty of experience taking out vampires.

Most of the rest of Gunn's crew would take out the limo full of demons using their assault weapons, explosives, flame throwers, whatever the job took. Whoever furnished them with their automatic weapons could have provided heavier firepower just as easily as Uzis and Mac-10's, and I would be really surprised if the gang didn't already have at least grenades in addition to their guns. If not, fire bombs and privative explosives are easier to fabricate from household chemicals than you might imagine, and, given their line of work, they were probably well aware of it.

Lindsey and Lorne could have used at least one armed man as back up, but even if they had gone in alone as planned, killing Lindsey at that point was a tactical mistake, simply because, and Angel KNEW this in advance, everyone left standing would be required in the alley to face whatever force that the Senior Partners would use in retaliation to his attack, and even then the chances of survival would be highly unlikely. If they had survived the battle, there would have been plenty of time to take care of Lindsey later, well before he could initiate any plan to betray the others (while we're on this subject, Lorne's "high note from MacArthur Park" would have been quite useful in the alley later, as well, and would have required very little in the way of further involvement in the fight afterwards).

And before anyone says that there wasn't time to set all of that up in one episode, "The Girl In Question" was a total waste of time, and should never have been made once it became obvious that Sarah would not be appearing in it. That would have given another hour to make "Not Fade Away" a two part episode, and it could STILL have ended the same way that it finally did, only with a few more able bodied fighters standing beside Angel in the alley.

[Keanoite]

I actually agree with the points made about how Angel's plan could have been bettered and more lives could have possibily been saved. However, does anybody else think that it would have been too "perfect" if somehow all the AI gang managed to survive? I mean this was a suicide mission, people had to die for the story to have any credibility. It was war and war has casualties, personally I would have found it insulting as a viewer if they had worked out some magical plan that allowed everyone to live.

[white avenger]

What I suggested wouldn't have necessarily saved the lives of Wesley or ultimately Gunn, but, to me, the way Angel planned it just didn't seem very well planned out. Even a suicide mission should have the potential of inflicting the greatest amount of damage on the enemy, otherwise it's too much "suicide," and too little "mission."

[andrewcutter]

theres one thing about switching Wesley with anyone. The wizard thought wesley was betraying angel thus let him hin. I dont think illyria could pull that off. Even if angel sent illyria on a rampage to kill the wizard he might have seen her coming and been able to protect himself with her in a weakened state. I think that in the end he would have knew illyria was their is she tag along with wesley and that would have gave it all away. Angel knew wesley was the only one who could get in there without causing much trouble

[bufsum]

Why didn't Angel recruit more help? He could have... and while I am glad we didn't have some cheesy plan that saves everyone's lives in the end it would have been okay if more of them were "slay[ing] the dragon" in the end.

[Superstar]

I think my plan would've had no deaths.
The deaths that took place had a reason.
Wes and Gunn were the last of the old guard (Angel Investigations), and the only two left that were human.
Angel explained it was a suicide mission from the start and why he took the vote.
Wes and Gunn were the two who really had nothing else to live for.

It was a war on the supernatural, and only supernatural beings had a slim chance of survival.
Even then, as the last images of Not Fade Away show that slim chance was not looking so good.

[Vampmogs]

I liked White Avengers plan quite a lot. Except for the part about Angel bringing the others to help him with Hamilton? Or did you not mean the fang gang and just some of Gunn's crew or something like that?

If you did mean the fang gang (as in Spike, Wes, Gunn, Lorne or Illyria) then I have to say I disagree on that one. They needed to take out all the circle basically at the same time. The impression I got was that word would and did travel fast that members were being assassinated, and as Angel states in 'PowerPlay' they're too powerful together to be defeated. They couldn't risk having any other member come to Hamilton's aid. Each and every member had to pre-occupied and killed at the same time. And the only way that could happen was by having each of the team on their own mission with their own member to target and kill.

Basically in order to absolve the idea of a whole army, like the demon legions at the end of ‘Not Fade Away’ arriving early at their doorstep during a battle with Hamilton or another member of the Circle. Their plan was to destroy the circle, never to live through the consequences.

Unfortunately they didn’t realise the consequences it’d have on the whole city and not just them “gulp?”

[white avenger]

I liked White Avengers plan quite a lot. Except for the part about Angel bringing the others to help him with Hamilton? Or did you not mean the fang gang and just some of Gunn's crew or something like that?


I was thinking more along the lines of Angel, Connor, and Gwen, or possibly one or more relatively powerful demons. Surely somewhere in LA there must be some super powered fighter who owed Angel a favor or simply would be willing to help keep the Senior Partners from moving in on their turf. (Of course, that would fall back on my suggestion that "Not Fade Away" should have been a two part episode to allow the time to properly prepare the attack. The only real rush was that the show was about to end.)

There wasn't any imminent attack by the Senior Partners on the horizon. Angel just arbitrarily picked that moment to strike, and hoped that they would succeed. Without the timely arrivals of Connor and Illyria, two of the main targets would never been defeated, and the whole plan would have been in the toilet.