Buffy Needs To Choose-Angel or Spike

[Bluebird]

In the episode 'Chosen', Buffy has the conversation with Angel implying that they may have a future together and then she returns to Spike.

Joss Whedon has said that he left it to the viewer to decide if Buffy and Spike had slept together on the last night before the big fight.

If they did, then after that conversation and the passionate kiss with Angel, don't you think Buffy is a bit of a user?

[Blondie Bear]

I don't think it's Buffy's fault. I think Joss was trying to please all of his viewers at once because he thought this was it--the absolute last gasp of Buffy. Sure, it's made for some possible issues now that Buffy's back, but at the time, I think he was just trying to keep everyone happy.

[Buffanator]

In the episode 'Chosen', Buffy has the conversation with Angel implying that they may have a future together and then she returns to Spike.

Joss Whedon has said that he left it to the viewer to decide if Buffy and Spike had slept together on the last night before the big fight.

If they did, then after that conversation and the passionate kiss with Angel, don't you think Buffy is a bit of a user?


Buffy herself told Spike that she was just "using him" in As You Were when she broke things off with him. So she admits to being *a user*. I think everyone is at one time or another. In TVLand, and IRL. ::huh1::

BUT... I don't think that Buffy & Spike slept together that night (last episode) - or at all in S-7. I think Buffy had too much on her mind to get involved that way, and I think Spike finally had grown to respect their relationship for what it was - without sex. After all, he did say that he "just lay there & watched her sleep, & it was the best night of my life."

[palabravampiress]

Heck, I don't think she needs to choose. The whole point of the cookie conversation was that she wasn't ready to choose and knew she wasn't ready. Regardless of whether or not she and Spike may have slept together at the end of season 7, that doesn't make Buffy a user. She was a user in season 6. In season 7, she's more mature about dealing with her feelings for both Spike and Angel. Part of being more mature is recognizing and being honest about the fact that she's not in a place in which she feels she can make that choice.

[Buffanator]

Great. Now I want a cookie.

[white avenger]

I don't think Joss will ever settle this argument, because, why should he only please half of his fans when he can keep all of them ai a state of confusion and turmoil? Every time the "Spuffy vs Bangel" argument starts, I can hear his evil laughter in the background. The simplest solution would be to have Willow split Buffy into two Slayers, then let one have Spike and the other have to settle for Angel (we could have that oil wrestling match to decide). No, wait a minute, that wouldn't work. There are the Fuffies, the Banders, the Billows, the Biles (you just GOTTA find a better name for that ship!), and, of course, we can't forget the Batsues. Willow's gonna have to shatter Buffy into a couple of dozen pieces just to keep everyone happy.

[Keanoite]

I think Biles somes up that ship perfectly...

Honestly I don't think Joss will ever put us out of our misery and really I think that is the smartest thing to do. I know I would be crushed, as someone who has invested so much in the Bangel ship, if he were to come out and say she picked Spike. It would taint the whole verse for me. Joss knows that would be the reaction one way or another. Why would he ruin it? As far as I'm concerned Buffy will pick Angel and I'm quite happy to go on believeing that, I mean without a definitive answer no-one can say I'm wrong. So unless it ends with Bangel together I don't want to know. Keeping us guessing is the best plan all round.

[InsaneMystic]

the Biles (you just GOTTA find a better name for that ship!)
Well actually it's fitting, as the name is a graphic description for the reaction the majority of Non-Biles have to that ship's concept. :biggrin:

Anyway, I don't see why there has to be any choosing to be done. As a polyamorist I pretty much go for the "all of the above"-button whenever I encounter such a discussion.

On second thought - when I look at your list of ships with "B" of "uffy" in it, make that the "all of the above, except Bangel" button. :wink:


EDIT: I see Keanoite beat me to the answer, even though we leave common ground after our opinions about "Biles". :lmao:

[bufsum]

I think the fact that Joss has created a love triangle makes him all sorts of tingly. He does love torturing his fans, we all have the internal heart-brusings to prove it. Besides, if Kevin Williamson can drag out the Pacey/Joey/Dawson dicatomy for six seasons, we have a long road ahead before Buffy chooses anyone. And, she is still a young girl, after all. She can be in a state of indecision for years.

...until she is done baking, and Angel will eat her.

[Tranquillity]

I don't think Buffy is a user - certainly not by season seven. As for making a choice, i agree with the general concensus that she will never make a choice. I sort of see Angel and Spike coming in and out of her life and adventures as needs be. I reckon I could live with that better than having my 'ship' sunk permanently.

[Buffanator]

If Buffy HAS to choose between Angel & Spike, then she should choose Spike. As I lamented in another thread (somewhere), she & Angel can NEVER get bouncy together. Nope, it's fruitless to even think about it... "no fruit for Buffy" - cause Angel's got that nasty gypsy curse so he can't experience *true happiness* because he would go all evil & start killing her friends, & that's just not acceptable. I mean, what're they gonna do? Have Willow *standing by* every time they do it, so she can re-ensoul Angel before he goes into kill-mode?? :rolleyes:

Spike, on the other hand, CHOSE to get his soul, there's no curse attached to it, so he can please Buffy until they both *pop like warm champange*. So oh yeah, Buffy should choose Spike so she can *get what she deserves.* And then some. ;) :D

[Keanoite]

If Buffy HAS to choose between Angel & Spike, then she should choose Spike. As I lamented in another thread (somewhere), she & Angel can NEVER get bouncy together. Nope, it's fruitless to even think about it... "no fruit for Buffy" - cause Angel's got that nasty gypsy curse so he can't experience *true happiness* because he would go all evil & start killing her friends, & that's just not acceptable. I mean, what're they gonna do? Have Willow *standing by* every time they do it, so she can re-ensoul Angel before he goes into kill-mode?? :rolleyes:

Spike, on the other hand, CHOSE to get his soul, there's no curse attached to it, so he can please Buffy until they both *pop like warm champange*. So oh yeah, Buffy should choose Spike so she can *get what she deserves.* And then some. ;) :D

So who she should be with all comes down to sex? If that's the case then she might as well jump the bones of the next stud muffin she finds. What's love got to do with it?

[Buffanator]

So who she should be with all comes down to sex? If that's the case then she might as well jump the bones of the next stud muffin she finds. What's love got to do with it?

No, silly! Of course sex is not *THE ONLY* thing to consider... But if you're going to BE with somebody (assuming forever) and you CAN'T diddle them, like EVER... I mean, who'duh thunk that an orgasm could cause so much chaos??? ... & since I BELIEVE that Buffy loved both Angel AND Spike, then it makes sense for her to be with THE ONE that she CAN diddle.

Diddle'n is good. Long live the diddle! :D

[Keanoite]

No, silly! Of course sex is not *THE ONLY* thing to consider... But if you're going to BE with somebody (assuming forever) and you CAN'T diddle them, like EVER... I mean, who'duh thunk that an orgasm could cause so much chaos??? ... & since I BELIEVE that Buffy loved both Angel AND Spike, then it makes sense for her to be with THE ONE that she CAN diddle.

Diddle'n is good. Long live the diddle! :D


Oh ok but you can understand how I took you up wrongly. And I agree that Buffy shouldn't have to live in a world without sex...BUT developements in the Angel comic throw a completely different light on what a future relationship between her and Angel hold. As it stands right now, sex would no longer be a stumbling block in thei relationship.

[Buffanator]

Oh ok but you can understand how I took you up wrongly. And I agree that Buffy shouldn't have to live in a world without sex...BUT developements in the Angel comic throw a completely different light on what a future relationship between her and Angel hold. As it stands right now, sex would no longer be a stumbling block in thei relationship.

I get that; except, I'm not really into the comic - I speak from the show itself.

However, if Buffy & Angel can have sex w/out the evil consequences, then yeah, she should be with Angel. Even as much of a Spuffy shipper as I am, I'd still like to see Spike with Faith... they "fit better" IMHO, & I'm more of a Faith fan than a Buffy fan. So... Spaith (or... Fike?) all the way! ;)

[Keanoite]

I get that; except, I'm not really into the comic - I speak from the show itself.

However, if Buffy & Angel can have sex w/out the evil consequences, then yeah, she should be with Angel. Even as much of a Spuffy shipper as I am, I'd still like to see Spike with Faith... they "fit better" IMHO, & I'm more of a Faith fan than a Buffy fan. So... Spaith (or... Fike?) all the way! ;)

I'm with you on both counts here. If Buffy gets to live happily ever after than it should be with the love of her life and that is most definitely Angel. And I have been quietly campaigning for Spike and Faith ever since I saw them in Season 7. Talk about chemistry!

[palabravampiress]

Eww. I'm sooo anti-Bangel. See, I have this problem with how Angel is always making decisions FOR Buffy and how those decisions usually involve choosing NOT to be with her. This makes it very difficult for me to support Bangel as an endgame option. Before I support Bangel as a final choice, I need Angel to prove that he has the ability to, umm, get a chance to be with Buffy, take it, and make it work. What I have to go on right now does not a happy relationship make. It just makes Buffy cry a lot. I don't want her to choose that! The number of times that Angel has left her makes me think he doesn't deserve her or really want to be with her, let alone have the ability to make her happy. You can have all of the love and the passion in the world, but if you keep walking out on someone (even if you think it's the right thing to do), then I think you've got to prove you can stick around (and respect your partner's feelings and wishes) before you submit yourself as a candidate for final choice. I'm not saying Buffy should never choose Angel, just that he has a lot to prove to me as a viewer before I would endorse the relationship again, let alone for the long haul. If she HAS to choose a vamp, I want her to choose Spike. At least I feel reasonably secure in the fact that Spike would stick around and make her a priority.


That said, I'm still on the why-does-she-have-to-choose bandwagon. I don't think she's ready yet. She's still baking. There's no reason for her to choose either one of them. Also, when she is ready, I want her to choose Xander. He sticks like glue, has already proven himself and has an ongoing, honest, and *current* relationship with Buffy, whereas Angel and Spike both need to get out of Hell and come clean about a few things that they've both been concealing before they could even be considered as candidates for Buffy cookies.

[Buffanator]

If it were UP TO ME... Buffy would have both Angel AND Spike. She's a new-millenium, want-take-have kinda girl in *BuffanatorVerse*. :D

[Monty]

Even though I generally like Spike more than Angel, I think, if she'd face a situation in which she'd have to choose one of them, she'd choose Angel without a second thought. It's just the power of first love.

[Lindsey McDonald]

See, I never liked Bangel 'till it was over. It was only ever in I Will Remember You and Chosen that I actually *got* the big epic love thing. Everywhere else it just didn't click. Spuffy, however, did. If she had a fully baked, no consequences to deal with choice to make though, I'm sure she would chose Angel. Spike was there for her, but she never stopped loving Angel.

But then again I still love Dangel and Dangelus (or should that be Arla and...well, Arla?). So Angel's taken!

[Violette]

Angel is Buffy's true love and always has been. This was hinted throughout the seasons after Angel left at the end of season 3, ie. the crossover episode "I Will Remember You" in Angel (despite Buffy and Riley's ongoing relationship at that time), then again in seasons 6 and 7. That's why when Buffy said "I love you" to Spike, Spike said "No you don't, but thanks for saying it." Spike knows that deep inside, Buffy might've loved Spike for what he has done and for being there for her, but not in the same way that she loved Angel.

[LifeIsJustThis]

LOL I think most people agree that Buffy was always using Spike sexually. Although, in seven, they develop a friendship beyond that.

Edit:

I agree that in the end, if forced to choose, she would choose Angel. It's obvious that she is willing to go back with him after he becomes human. Although I feel Spuffy had more passion, her love for Angel is, for lack of a better word, probobly eternal....sadly, because we all know they could never really work out.

[white avenger]

From personal experience, and from conversations with most of my married friends, I tent to be skeptical of the "first love, forever love" thing. It just almost never seems to work. (Now I'm gonna be ripped apart by all of you readers who married your first love and lived happily ever after or know someone who has). Having said that, I feel the same way about the usual love affair that leads to marriage scenario. (Second ripping by those who did or knew those who did make that scenario work). Where does that leave me on the Bangel/Spuffy debate? I love to push the Spuffy ship just because there are so many Bangel addicts out there who need to have the wind knocked out of their sails (but don't tell them that. It's too much fun debating the issue)

Actually, I think that Buffy either hasn't met the "long haul guy," or has, but will realize it too late. (Don't get your hopes up, Banders, I think Joss is really gonna ultimately reveal.....BANDREW!!!!!)

(And if you believe any part of the above....)

[Urgent Power]

Angel is Buffy's first love. And/but that doesn't mean he's her last love, the one she will be with in the end. Of course she loves Angel, she always will, first love and everything. But that doesn't mean he's her one true love she will live with forever. There can be other loves after the first one. I'm not saying her true love who she will be with forever in the end is Spike. But you should be open to the option that first love isn't necessarily someone's last love. Makes sense?

[LifeIsJustThis]

Buffy herself told Spike that she was just "using him" in As You Were when she broke things off with him. So she admits to being *a user*. I think everyone is at one time or another. In TVLand, and IRL. ::huh1::

BUT... I don't think that Buffy & Spike slept together that night (last episode) - or at all in S-7. I think Buffy had too much on her mind to get involved that way, and I think Spike finally had grown to respect their relationship for what it was - without sex. After all, he did say that he "just lay there & watched her sleep, & it was the best night of my life."

James says on the Q&A on his website, in response to what he thinks Buffy and Spike did their last night together:
"I think Buffy tried to sleep with Spike but Spike wouldn't have her. He really didn't trust her. He said they should just be friends. (laughs!)"

Regardless of what happened, it's an interesting way to look at it.

I like to think they talked all night :) Maybe even came to some conclusions (closure, maybe) about thier relationship.

James also said this about Buffy and Spike is response to the idea that Buffy and Spike's relationship needed closure:
'I think thematically it did get closure. Spike really wasn't reformed after what happened in the bathroom - he seemed unworthy of her. By the end of the series they made him again worthy, but dead, trying for some tragic epic sweep I suppose. The problem I think, is that they didn’t want to spend much time on that - they needed the time to tell the story of the potentials so instead of doing something active I got to wear a jewel on a chain and blow up. It was the most time effective way to do it, but it lost something."

(Jamesmarsters.com)

[LorneyTunes]

Buffy shouldn't choose , shes not got a solid relationship with either of them .

Its also their choice to say hey Buffy why do u smell like Angel/spike ???? They want her as much as she wants them and she can't have either anyway its a horrible circle x