Giles Presence

[Atren]

Which of the following do you think had not happened if Giles had stayed around. Note that some of them are direct consequences of previous ones so remember so remember to check those two unless you believe they might have happened regardless.

Of course would be nice if you articulate your reasons. Also should i have forgotten some important events mention them too :P

[LorneyTunes]

I didn't vote any i don't really think Giles changed much by leaving, maybe making things abit harder but Buffy did need him for support .

Buffy is fully capable of looking out for herself and Giles had to leave , it did make things worse but i think all of thoose outcomes would have happend especially spike and Buffy sleeping together x

Dark willow would have came out no matter if Giles was there , she was hurt and very very angry and once the vengence takes controll it takes a Xander shaped figure to help x

Xander leaving Anya , i think Xander still would have done it , its against everything he stands for Anya killed and maimed hundreds of ppl , that wee man givin him a nudge might have sealed the deal tho x


Giles is a very naughty man at the end of it anyway , trying to kill spike for the greater good , what is he god lol .
Killing spike meant killing losing a fighter a warrior another body for the battle. Thats a bit pig headed and stupid x

[Atren]

Oh, i knew i forget something -- option of nothing :( Sorry.

[LittleMissLikesToFight]

I actually think anya becoming a vengeance demon. Because i think Giles had a presence in Anya's life more so due to the Magic Box. He couldn't stop what Xander did but i think he'd be a source of comfort and wisdom for Anya and hopefully would get through to her.

[MozYa]

I don't think anything would have changed if Giles had stayed except maybe Buffy and Spike not happening till a bit later on, it was always going to happen for them both though. That became apparent in Season 5 for me.

[Tranquillity]

I think that Giles would have kept them on task a bit more so maybe they would have worked out what the Nerds were up to before Warren killed Tara so then Willow wouldn't have gone bad. Also i think that if Giles had stayed maybe Buffy wouldn't have hung round with Spike so much so maybe what happened between them would have been different too.

[littlewilly]

In the early years Giles was a massive influence on all of the Scoobies, and even though his authority faded as they grew up, i think he would have especially had a big influence on what happened with Willow.
But, i dont think too much would have changed with Xander or especially Buffy.
I also think Anya would still work at the Magic box, and dawn would've been a bit happier.

[Fake Shemp]

i think it would have played out the same. he couldnt prevent taras death so willow would still go all darthy :vader1:, buffy and spike may have been less or even more, buffy would have hidden it anyways (tho giles could have helped her deal with how she was feeling being brought back to life and all the questions she had, since everyone else was wrapped up he would have been her bra, support, maybe)

xander and anya, exact same... i dont see, tho id like read some theories, how he could have helped there... i cant see xander going to him for help about his problems (if he didnt say anything to willow he's not going to to giles i think)

dawn might have felt more included, having giles there.... i mean she lost her mom, then buffy, then tara and willow split who are like her surrogate parents (and from her reaction to when tara left you could see traces of how she would have been when joyce and hank broke up, plus how giddy she is when they get back together) as giles was like a father to buffy, i think he would have been the same with dawn....so feeling much abandonment there me thinks.

anya may not have had to go to d'hoffryn, and giles could have been there for her, so she wouldnt have taken off and got her vengeance on again....

hmmmmmmmmmm?

Edit:

well i did talk about the dad thing with support for dawn and anya

[Lily]

i voted no dark!willow happening because Will always looked to Giles for guidance and when he was gone she kinda lost her way and had no one to go to for learning about the magicks (other than maybe amy, and she's noone's good influence)

[LadyLavinia]

I don't think that Giles would have exerted a big change in Buffy's life in Season 6 . . . except financially.

[Buffy obsessed fan]

The only one I voted for is Dawn's Wish, I think if Giles had been there, he would have been with Dawn, so she wouldn't have needed the wish. She only wished because she felt so alone, Giles left because Buffy didn't need him anymore, Dawn sure as hell did so I think with him there that wouldn't have happened.

[Cangel]

I think all of this would've still happened.

Buffy and Spike sleeping together: Well they already kissed when Giles was still around, so why not go any further?
Dawn's wish: Dawn was already feeling alone when Giles was around...remember how she already went clepto on Halloween for example?
Xander leaving Anya at altar: that was in direct connection with that man Anyanka sent to hell or whatever, so still not able to see any Giles invlovement.
Anya becoming Vengeance demon again: Okay, that might change. Maybe Giles would have talked to Anya, trying to comfort her. On the other hand, no one of the other Scoobies apparently did, so maybe Giles would've figured it would be better to let Anya alone for some time, which would have lead to Anyanka.
Tara's death: That was Warren going crazy. Maybe Giles would've made sure sooner that the Trio was out of the way, but let's not forget Warren was a looney and might have shot Tara anyway.
Dark Willow emerging: that was a direct reaction to Tara being shot, so if that couldn't be prevented, same goes for this.
Spike deciding to go for soul: Maybe Buffy woukd've broken things up sooner with Spike if Giles was around, but no matter when it was, I think Spike might've still tried something stupid like raping Buffy and then realized he's in need of a soul, so nothing here changes either.

[kater]

I think that things could have been quite different had Giles stayed in Sunnydale. I think Xander may have talked to Giles rather than ditching Anya at the altar. I don't believe that Willow would have gone evil had Giles still been there. I think he realize just how different Willow was becoming, and had he stayed I believe he would have been very involved with helping Willow learn more about her power and would have helped her deal with Tara's death. I've always felt that Giles had more influence over the whole Scooby Gang than he was given credit for. He was a surrogate dad in a lot of ways, and that doesn't always go away.

[Snapps444]

Spike and Buffy was always gonna happen.
Dawn wasn't close to Giles so I think that would have happened, plus she loves the attention.
Xander would have had Giles as a best man, and I think Giles would have changed his mind.
Don't really know about Tara's death.

[UnKle]

This was the season where all the characters got stripped of everything, some literally...

I think Buffy would have slept with Spike eventually, but that Giles' leaving created a void that Buffy wasn't prepared to deal with. She had no idea how to pay bills, keep Dawn happy, direct the Scoobies, plus deal with her own frustrations, and ALSO train and slay. And Giles' leaving just compounded all her fears about being alone. Buffy doubted herself and thus hit the downward spiral a little harder, a little quicker.

I think his leaving upset a lot of little things, under the surface, which helped a lot of slightly bigger things set into motion, but most of those things were already poised to happen and just reacted to a domino effect. Buffy was relying on him to take care of big things, and take care of providing the support (literally and figuratively), and relying on him to always be there. To some degree, the other characters took their cues from her because he wasn't there. But they faltered in their own way. Things got messed up, but I don't blame Giles so much as I just think it was a serious session of "hello, welcome to life on your own, it's nice, but sometimes it can really suck" that everyone was having now that they were all basically becoming adults.

Season 6 is a character catharsis. Which is usually not about the fun so much as it is about the turmoil, and the learning, and the becoming a better person for it.

[fly on the wall]

I wasn't going to choose any of them, but I ended up choosing Anya becoming a vengeance demon again.

I think Giles was much like a father figure to Anya. I don't remember which episode it was, but the way Giles reacted when he found out Anya was a vengeance demon again, and Anya seemed ashamed...I think his presence there could have prevented that. ("Could have"; not necessarily "would have.") But everything else would have happened regardless, IMO.

- Buffy wanted to feel. She felt dead inside. Giles being around wasn't making her feel less dead. His departure obviously affected her, and maybe pushed her to sleep with Spike sooner than she would have, but I think it would have happened anyway.

- Dawn was already feeling shunted aside and alone when Giles was there. And he would have been just as wrapped up as the others - with the Magic Box, trying to figure out who The Trio were, trying to help Buffy cope, etc etc. I can't see how he would have made Dawn feel much differently about things.

- Xander would have still left Anya at the altar....if anything, I believe Giles would have encouraged him to. Remember in the Halloween episode when Giles was questioning where they'd live, when they'd get a house, etc? Remember his comment, "I'm sure you and the ex-vengeance demon will be perfectly happy together"? (not a direct quote) I think Giles knew Xander wasn't ready for marriage, and he and Anya weren't right for each other. Besides, I can't exactly see Xander confiding in Giles one-on-one anyway.

- How in the world could he have prevented Tara's death? : pconfuse

- And because of that ^ I don't think he could have prevented Willow from going nuts. She was so overcome with hurt and grief and shock and rage (not to mention vengeance), I don't think anyone could have reached her in time to stop Dark Willow from taking over. IMO it happened almost instantaneously with Tara's death.

- And how would he have stopped Spike deciding to get a soul? That was out of Spike's love for Buffy and desire to have Buffy love him back. I don't see how Giles played a part in that (unless you believe he could have stopped them from sleeping together, I suppose..)

[scobro]

I figure if Giles would have not left then at least his table would not have been soiled...

[Ripper 08]

i dont think dawns wish would have happened or dark willows ereging as i dont think she would have been into the dark arts as she was at tara's death so she wouldn't have gone so into them or as powerful as she wouldnt have had the taste before the death of tara.(if that makes any sence?). everything else though i think mite well have still happened buffy would have slept with spike when she got turned invisable by the trio if she hadn't slept with him earlier.

[fly on the wall]

^ Willow threatened Giles, remember? "I am powerful and it's not a good idea to piss me off." She rolled her eyes and scoffed whenever Giles or Tara mentioned her overuse of magic. She was unconcerned by Giles' warnings, she even accused Tara of "taking his side." She was already being sucked into dark magic while Giles was there...Tabula Rasa, anyone? Giles was still there for that episode, and that's the episode Tara left her, and that's what sent Willow deeper into the dark arts. I really doubt Giles could have stopped that.

[littlewilly]

There was even signs in s5, in Tough Love talking about magic, Tara says ''It frightens me how powerful you're becoming'' and Willow over-reacts big time and storms out in a huff.

[Ripper 08]

what i meant was i dont think she would have got so deeply involved with the black arts as in going to see that guy (raf) not sure about that name if its wrong please correct me.so in term wouldn't have got such a taste for that kind of magic.

[littlewilly]

I dont think Willow was really a strong willed/minded person though, and as long as she was doing magic, what happened when Tara died was inevitible. She'd have went to see Rack even if Giles stayed. She cuoldnt help herself and didnt even think what she was doing was wrong.

[white avenger]

Actually, if Giles had stayed in Sunnydale, the chances are pretty good that he would have gotten wind of the plan to resurrect Buffy and stopped it. Then when the demon bikers came to town, there wouldn't have been anybody there to stop them, because Spike, the only real fighter left in town would honor his promise to Buffy by taking Dawn and heading for the open road (who could blame him after the treatment the Scoobies must have given him all summer). With the town defenseless, the demons would take over, and even if Faith were to somehow come back to town, her chances of turning the tide of chaos, even if she managed to recruit the help of Angel and his crew, would be almost nil. Once Sunnydale fell, the wave of destruction would spread outward as more and more demons and vampires joined in, until the world was, once more, completely theirs, and what few humans that there were left would be in hiding, trying to just survive.

Luckily, Giles went back to England where he belonged.

[Crazy Flakes]

As much as Giles' presence affected the show and the characters, I don't think the characters would have been in a much better place if he hadn't left. In fact, now that I think about it, if he hadn't been in England, he wouldn't have been able to get the power from that coven and Dark Willow might have actually followed through with destroying the world.

The only thing I voted for was Dawn's wish. Giles seemed to spend more time watching over her than any of the Scoobies, so if he'd stuck around, she might not have been lonely enough to make the wish.

littlewilly agrees: what was Dawns wish again?

She wished that everyone would stay in her house.

[fly on the wall]

Actually, if Giles had stayed in Sunnydale, the chances are pretty good that he would have gotten wind of the plan to resurrect Buffy and stopped it.
How would he have gotten wind of it? Dawn, Spike, and Giles remained clueless, and all three of them were around the other Scoobies an awful lot.
Giles left the day they were intending to bring Buffy back, still unaware. I don't think he would have found out in the few hours between when his plane left to when they resurrected Buffy.

[hannahfngrl26]

I do believe with Giles influence and help Buffy would have been less likely to reach out to Spike for physical comfort.

[Darling]

I voted for Anya not becoming a demon again... I really think she´d cry a lot with him, he´d say something really english, clever and daddy like and nothing would happend.

The Dark Willow thing I´m not so sure, but maybe he could do something.

[Girl with Sword]

People, it's very simple. Think about it this way; Giles is here, Once More With Feeling, Tabulu Rasa. Giles is gone, Smashed, Wrecked. This should tell us something. Maybe he couldn't have stopped the spuffy thing, or Dawn being as annoying as she always is or even the Xanya thing. At least he would have noticed the Willow thing before it got as bad as it did and just made eveything generally better. He would have brought in the laughter that he brought a little to late in the show, kept from falling off the depression cliff that it did.