What they could of had?

[Keanoite]

I just watched "I Will Remember You" (glutton for punishemnt I know) but the goodbye scene struck a bit of a nerve, more specifically Buffy's plea to Angel...

'How am I supposed to go on with my life knowing what we had what we could have had?"

Would she have been better off remembering that day? How would it effect her future...better or worse?

[palabravampiress]

^ Well, first off, it would have broken up Buffy and Riley pretty darn quickly. Also, I think it would have broken her heart again (like when she killed him or when he left for L.A.). In addition to that, the fact that she had committed infidelity would probably have troubled her more than a little.

I think remembering a third painful we-can't-be-together Bangel moment and dealing with its consequences would have led Buffy to either try to find a way to break the curse once and for all or to try to find a way to suck it up and move on once and for all. Quite possibly, she could have pursued the second path after failing in the first. I think it would have made Buffy realize that she needed to get out of romantic limbo -- with Angel, if possible, but on her own if the curse couldn't be lifted.

Actually, this all sounds rather healthy. I'm sorry it didn't happen.

[Keanoite]

^ Well, first off, it would have broken up Buffy and Riley pretty darn quickly. Also, I think it would have broken her heart again (like when she killed him or when he left for L.A.). In addition to that, the fact that she had committed infidelity would probably have troubled her more than a little.

I think remembering a third painful we-can't-be-together Bangel moment and dealing with its consequences would have led Buffy to either try to find a way to break the curse once and for all or to try to find a way to suck it up and move on once and for all. Quite possibly, she could have pursued the second path after failing in the first. I think it would have made Buffy realize that she needed to get out of romantic limbo -- with Angel, if possible, but on her own if the curse couldn't be lifted.

Actually, this all sounds rather healthy. I'm sorry it didn't happen.


Wow...we just agreed on something Angel related...weird lol. But I think it would have made for a far more emotionally healthy Buffy. I think she would have been extremely focused on the lifting the curse angle.

Would she still have died? would she and Angel have maintained a greater level of contact because of it?

[palabravampiress]

^ Agreement is nice. :-)

Would she still have died?
I think so. Unless remembering that day altered events in such a radical manner that Dawn and Glory never showed up, then Buffy's romantic attachments and memories would still have had no bearing on the fact that a Hell God needed to bleed Dawn into a portal in order to get back home. I think Buffy would have made that sacrifice for herself and for her sister no matter what. So as long as Dawn and Glory are still in play, I think the Buffster would have taken that famous swan dive of hers.

Would she and Angel have maintained a greater level of contact because of it?
Because she died, or because of remembering the events of IWRY? Either way, it's hard to say. Angel mourned Buffy and moved on with his life. He could function without her, which threw him, but also comforted him. I think that gave him some distance and perspective when it came to Buffy. As things stand, their level of contact didn't really change after Buffy came back. If anything, it became less frequent. All that would be different in this scenario is that Buffy would remember that one day. I think their contact or lack of contact would depend upon whether or not they were able to break the curse in the aftermath of that day. If so, then I think Angel would have had to have closed up shop and booked it back to Sunnydale. If not, then I think maintaining distance would still be considered preferable for all parties.

[Keanoite]

I guess I'm asking if the simple knowledge of that day would have had a ripple effect on everything else that followed. Like would Angel had lost his rocker over Darla? Would he have stayed with Buffy after the events of Forever? I don't doubt for a second that Glory and Dawn would still have come to play but would Angel's (possible) presence have changed what happened?

[Superstar]

Would she have been better off remembering that day? How would it effect her future...better or worse?
Remembering would be a constant reminder that Angel turned his back on her again.
Better or worse? Better I suppose. Then she would know that it wouldn't work with him as a vampire or a human instead of always wondering.

its consequences would have led Buffy to either try to find a way to break the curse once and for all
Meaning a vamp with a soul and no little drawback of going evil when shagging?
Thing is, that was never her dream. Her dream was for him to be human. Her dream was a life with him and a white picket fence, children and to just be normal.
The problem does not go away with just one side changing i.e. shaggable vamp. There is still the slayer aspect.

In a very real sense, the shaggable vamp angle was explored with Spike, like it or not, to show that even this option would fail in the end.
What Spike was in reality; a vamp who loved her and didn't go evil (chip prevented it) and then even that part was removed.
The capper? Spike gets a soul, is still a vamp and it is still not enough. In fact, it is played up as what Angel would have been like if in the same situation.

Sure, you can argue the attempted rape angle, but frankly Angel has done far worse to her on mental scarring.
If you want to add in the imagery from season 8, you have Buffy with both vamps; i.e. the best of both worlds.
The positioning of them in her dream is also of note. Angel in front and Spike in the rear. I'll leave the innuendo as is.
Take that for what it's worth.

I guess I'm asking if the simple knowledge of that day would have had a ripple effect on everything else that followed.
Not on Angel's side really since he did remember, and thereby knew that was the last option.
The curse removal wasn't that important to him or he would have been investigating that option long before these events (or after).
I know that reality of the situation doesn't sit well, but that is the way it is.

On Buffy's side? I don't see how really except that she might have truly moved on. Would that have been beneficial in her relationship with Spike? Dunno. Maybe.
If Angel's curse being lifted was that important to her, she would have been investigating that option long before these events.
This was not some sort of catalyst, or epiphany regarding Angel's status on either side.
If anything, it would have been demoralizing for Buffy to know that her dream could never be as long as she was the slayer.
The case isn't "If only Angel were..." but "if Angel were... and if I were..."

[white avenger]

This, to me, is one of the saddest episodes on either show, and I always feel depressed after watching it. It's almost like the ending of "Casablanca," when Rick has to leave probably the only woman he's ever really loved. I've always been a sucker for things like that.


(Fooled you, didn't I, Miss K?)