Epiphany

[Buffanator]

Angel: "Well, I guess I kinda worked it out. If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'cause that's all there is. What we do, now, today. I fought for so long. For redemption, for a reward - finally just to beat the other guy, but... I never got it."

Kate: "And now you do?"

Angel: "Not all of it. All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because I don't think people should suffer, as they do. Because, if there is no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world."

I just watched this (again) last night. I see Angel's point, and that Kate believed his entering her apt (to save her) was a miracle. "The smallest act of kindness" - was Angel's saving Kate and act of kindness, or was he, at that point, still seeking his redemption? Thoughts?

[white avenger]

He's never stopped seeking it, and he probably never will. If you get right down to it, we're all seeking redemption in one way or another. Maybe not for "killing more people than smallpox." Maybe just an act of callousness or downright cruelty to someone who loved, or thought they loved, us. Maybe not for torturing nuns and eating babies. Maybe just cheating or betraying a friend. We're all trying to redeem ourselves somehow. That's what decent people do.

[Keanoite]

I don't think his frame of mind was " Ok if I save Kate it will be one step closer to Shanshu". I think he was just trying to do the right thing.

[angelchick182]

I always liked this scene between the two of them - and no, I don't think Angel's actions were purely about redemption.

Kate went from trusting and caring about Angel(when she used to help him and thought he was a P.I.) to seeing him as the source of every problem she had encountered in her recent years. She devoted her life to a profession that she believed made a difference to the world around her. Over her time knowing Angel, after she knew the truth, this feeling of doing good, I think, just went away and she realized that she no control over much of anything. In her mind, Angel and the world he was a part of, took everything from her - her father, her job, her sense of purpose, and her concept of black and white.

I think Angel realized at the last minute where Kate's resentment of him came from and the impact he had on her life(through her eyes). So, I think, "the smallest act of kindness", the least he could possibly do for her after everything, was to go and save her - and to put her back on her path, just as, he says, Darla did for him that night.

[Buffanator]

So why do you think that Angel *ignored* the message from Kate when he first heard her speaking? He just turned the volume down & went upstairs. What was it about his sexual encounter with Darla that made him change his POV?

[angelchick182]

So why do you think that Angel *ignored* the message from Kate when he first heard her speaking? He just turned the volume down & went upstairs. What was it about his sexual encounter with Darla that made him change his POV?

Your first question, I don't really have an answer for. I don't know why his sexual encounter with Darla triggered his epiphany(though it's in typical Joss-fashion).

But afterwards, he thanks Darla for saving him, and wishes he could've done the same. During season 2, Kate never pulled any punches regarding her feelings about Angel and the blame she laid on him. When he heard the message, he was still in that dark, singe-track mindset of revenge against Darla and Wolfram & Hart. I think that after his epiphany - the first thing he knew he needed to do was to save Kate - whether she wanted his help or not. He was back on track with his mission of helping the helpless - and the first person that he knew needed his help was Kate.

[Tranquillity]

I think his encounter with Darla caused an epiphany because he didn't lose his soul. He slept with Darla because he was giving up, ready to embrace the darkness, forget the redemption but then when he didn't lose the soul as he expected he would he had to think again and this let to his epiphany moment - at least that's how i've always interpreted it.