Are we wrong?

[Keanoite]

This is a question that normally would result in an immediate no answer from me, I wouldn't even have to think about it. However, recently I have had several family members question me about this and I in turn find that I am questioning myself.

And so my question is this; Are we wrong for enjoying Buffy and Angel so much?

Is the emotion we feel towards the shows unnatural? Is the loyalty we feel misplaced? Should we be this invested in fictional characters? in a fictional world?

Should we be this involved in its fandom?

My gut reaction is still no, it's not wrong, not even close but I have found myself defending my interest in the show as if it is wrong, as if it is unhealthy. I admit that they're are people who can take it too far but I never classed myself in that bracket nor anyone else that I have come across here.

So BB what do you think? Have you come across this attitude, did it make you question yourself? or should we just be locked up and throw away the key?

[Buffanator]

Of COURSE we're not wrong! Some people may not ever understand our love/lust for the Buffy/Angel series/characters - but WGAF? We all like what we like. I've had people make so much fun of me for my Buffyness...but then again, before I was a die hard fan, I too, made fun of people for watching a show called "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". I didn't understand... I wasn't WILLING to watch it for myself to make my own decision. I just blindly laughed at others for it.

Well, now I'm the laughed at. But the entertainment value is SO HUGE, that others' laughter at me doesn't make a dent. I will forever be "buffanated". So help me Spike. :D

[Bangelxx]

Wow, I never really thought about it... I know there are people who take obsessions too far but I'm not one of them. Whats wrong with liking a TV show? It has good messages, characters, storylines etc. I'm a firm believer in no, we are not wrong for liking Buffy and Angel!

[Keanoite]

Wow, I never really thought about it... I know there are people who take obsessions too far but I'm not one of them. Whats wrong with liking a TV show? It has good messages, characters, storylines etc. I'm a firm believer in no, we are not wrong for liking Buffy and Angel!

Most people who question it only see demons, violence and witchcraft. That's the message they get from the Buffyverse.

[Joyce Summers]

My personal answer is no. People are passionate about so many things in life- I actually know a person who absolutely adores buttons. As in those you find on a cardigan? She collects them and is thrilled if she finds an extremely rare one (I have no idea what is considered a rare button however) and she has them all carefully placed in a room in her home. To people outside the button fetish brigade that seems weird, unhealthy and perhaps even, you know, insane. Same for people who collect stamps. Passions vary so much and Buffy/Angel is just one of the many ones out there in the world. I mean I'm passionate about several things- Buffy and Angel just happen to be one of them. And whether people think that's quirky or not has never really bothered me.

As long as our lives do not become the show (That is cutting off all friendships, family, real life issues and concerns to forever and fully absorb yourselves in the fandom) then it is not unhealthy at all. In fact I would go as far to say it is healthy for us. When people get stressed or feel like the world's too much, they generally have no idea what to do or where to go. Us? We can escape into this world where ironically things are as unperfect as our own lives, but the characters get through it so why can't we?

Escapism is a nessecity of life, and what better place to escape to than Sunnydale?

[palabravampiress]

Wrong for liking Buffy? Nah. I mean, look at how excited people get over sports. Spend an evening in a sports bar (or even a chain restaurant like TGI Fridays) getting interrupted every two minutes by sports fans cursing or cheering uncontrollably because Beckham kicked a soccer ball or Shaq dunked a basketball and I think you'll feel a lot better about yourself for being a Buffy fan. Coming online to discuss the themes, characters, and implications of a body of artwork is, in my opinion, far more civilized than the LOUD hubbub created by sports fans in every possible public space (as well as in the privacy of their own homes). If it is socially acceptable and healthy for sports fans to act like raving lunatics over the score of some game or for movie fans to dress up like hobbits and elves prior to a new LoTR release, then certainly it should be considered socially acceptable and healthy for Buffy fans to go online and discuss the show. When we start acting like sports fans and being extremely inconsiderate to non-fans who may be trying to enjoy a meal along with some dinner conversation, then maybe we should rethink our obsession. :-) I'm just saying... society has a lot of example of extreme reactions to various types of entertainment. Beatlemania is a sickness. March madness is, well, madness. Buffy fandom? Hardly rates.


EDIT:
As far as the demons and witches and stuff go... um... fantasy creatures appear in a variety of popular literature and art throughout history. We are no more wrong for enjoying Buffy on the TV than the Saxons were for enjoying a rendition of Beowulf in the mead hall.

[Keanoite]

My personal answer is no. People are passionate about so many things in life- I actually know a person who absolutely adores buttons. As in those you find on a cardigan? She collects them and is thrilled if she finds an extremely rare one (I have no idea what is considered a rare button however) and she has them all carefully placed in a room in her home. To people outside the button fetish brigade that seems weird, unhealthy and perhaps even, you know, insane. Same for people who collect stamps. Passions vary so much and Buffy/Angel is just one of the many ones out there in the world. I mean I'm passionate about several things- Buffy and Angel just happen to be one of them. And whether people think that's quirky or not has never really bothered me.

As long as our lives do not become the show (That is cutting off all friendships, family, real life issues and concerns to forever and fully absorb yourselves in the fandom) then it is not unhealthy at all. In fact I would go as far to say it is healthy for us. When people get stressed or feel like the world's too much, they generally have no idea what to do or where to go. Us? We can escape into this world where ironically things are as unperfect as our own lives, but the characters get through it so why can't we?

Escapism is a nessecity of life, and what better place to escape to than Sunnydale?

See that is exactly how I see it too. I mean I adore Manchester United, I support them wholeheartedly. Just as much as Buffy yet no-one has a problem with that, supporting a football team is normal but not a show.

[definition of insane]

Hell no!

It's all in harmless fun (unless you are a vampire or a demon), people find enjoyment in different things and we mesh with people who have our own likes and such.

How is it wrong to like a show and discuss it and show your appreciation?

*cough* Trekkies *cough*

And I'm not saying that in a derogatory way...but I'm merely pointing out before Buffy, and probably after Buffy, there will always be something that comes along that will lead to people thinking there's something wrong with liking a show too much.

[The Kinslayer]

I had a bit of an essay going on here, but I just couldn´t get it right so I´ll give you the short version.

So BB what do you think? Have you come across this attitude
Well, people don´t know that they´re talking about since they don´t watch the show. So I´m not listening to them. As Buffanator said, people just hear the name and shake their heads. The obsession-thing has never been an issue.

did it make you question yourself?
I do question myself from time to time. But it really has more to do with my age than anything else. Being 17, I´d never do that.


should we just be locked up and throw away the key?
What should only happen to dangerous peolpe. Are we dangerous? I think not.


The only "bad" thing I can see with a Buffy (or should I say Whedon?) "obsession" is that it might take time from something else we should be doing. But it´s an obsesson thing and as a whole, it has nothing to do with Buffy. We could be obsessed by knitting and spend hours and hous knitting every day. Is that any better? Of course not. This "world" gives so many good things in return that I can´t see it as a bad influence in any way. As long as you are "ready" for the show that is.

Obsessions as a whole can be bad for you in the long run. But if you do get obsessed, the world of Buffy is one of the best there is.

[Blondie Bear]

There are people who are just as obsessed with more "normal," socially acceptable things. One of my former teachers is one of the world's authorities on James Joyce and practically peed herself (in what you might call a fangirl fit) when they found a suitcase full of letters he wrote. I don't see a huge difference except that fantasy and science fiction aren't yet mainstream, and so people think we're stupid.

[white avenger]

This is a question that normally would result in an immediate no answer from me, I wouldn't even have to think about it. However, recently I have had several family members question me about this and I in turn find that I am questioning myself.

And so my question is this; Are we wrong for enjoying Buffy and Angel so much?

Is the emotion we feel towards the shows unnatural? Is the loyalty we feel misplaced? Should we be this invested in fictional characters? in a fictional world?

Should we be this involved in its fandom?

My gut reaction is still no, it's not wrong, not even close but I have found myself defending my interest in the show as if it is wrong, as if it is unhealthy. I admit that they're are people who can take it too far but I never classed myself in that bracket nor anyone else that I have come across here.

So BB what do you think? Have you come across this attitude, did it make you question yourself? or should we just be locked up and throw away the key?


Every year, I get an invitation from the USS INGRAHAM association to join my old shipmates for a reunion. Unfortunately, every year something interferes with my going, as much as I would love to. There are no people on this planet who love to get together and talk about the "old days" any more than service men and women, especially those who faced combat together. It inspires a closeness that no one who hasn't experienced it can begin to understand. But the men and women who gather together to recall and celebrate those "thrilling days of yesteryear" don't do so to celebrate the violence and destruction of those times, we gather to re-live, if only for a short while, the closeness and camaraderie that that common experience gave us.

At the Buffy Boards, I have met people from all over the world, of all religions or no religion, of every political group, every culture, every level of education, every sexual orientation...every diverse group in the world is probably well represented here, and I consider each and every one of you to be a close personal friend, even when we disagree, often strongly but never violently, about some point, whether related to Joss' creations, or any of the other subjects discussed here.

We don't come here to celebrate the violence, demons, lack of morals, or whether Cordy's shoes are still fashionable. We come here to remember the works of a group of people who we collectively believe created something unique and wonderful in the world, and the expression of the common theme put forth in those works: that, no matter how evil, how monstrous, how simply wrong something might be, someone somewhere will step forward to say, "This is wrong, and I will not allow it to continue." And for the most part, the people stepping forward aren't superheroes, they are nerds, construction workers, street gang members, and a few rogue demon hunters. Just plain people who choose to make a difference. At least that's why I'm here.

Miss K, as much as I love arguing with you about the merits of whether Buffy should be with Angel or Spike, and as strongly as we feel about our differing opinions, I think that when we at last withdraw to our respective corners and assess the merits of our collective arguments, we both know that Bangel or Spuffy don't really matter. Buffy, Angel, Spike, and all of the other wonderful characters created by Joss Whedon and his staff of writers are only fictional characters, no more corporeal than Spike in the first episode of "Angel Season 5." Just figments of someone's imagination.

The only real thing generated by the Buffy Boards is the friendship that we enjoy here. Miss K, I said it once before, and I will gladly repeat it now. "I love you, and I'm proud to call you my friend." But don't get stuck up about it, darlin, cause I love EVERYBODY here, and I'm proud to call them all my friends. (Just you a little more than the rest)

So, are we wrong? It beats the hell out of me, but if we ARE wrong, we're all wrong together, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[DarklyDreamingDrusilla]

I don't think that I love the show so much that it is unhealthy. I buy the comics as they come out and I watch the DVD's multiple times etc. I think that the reason behind us all being here is so that we can find other people with similar interests and discuss a television show that has a lot of meaning. I also think that this show can explain a lot of things that have or will happen to us in our lives and so we use it to get through things. But I also know that it is a fictional story and I do not take it to be REAL. I use it for the value of entertainment and to expand my mind. So to answer your question quickly - Just because I'm crazy ABOUT Buffy does not make me crazy. :smile:

[nerd4hire]

If we're wrong, I don't wanna be right.

[Dancing man]

I would say its wrong it's kind of like an addiction to a drug at least your not doing any harm this way.


But saying this I still think its wrong but me and my Shannen/Prue fetish will live forever :D lmao

[JCC]

Maybe I'm just more reserved in my fandom than you guys, but I think that discussing your favourite TV show (something which I feel pretty much qualifies as an art form) is as normal as discussing a book, or a football game. Then again, I might not be privy to the secret life of Buffy-Boards revolving around drugs, debauchery and shrines to characters tucked away in the kitchen.

[Kemy]

Well, I have a shelf with a lot of Buffy related stuff on it, close enough? :D

[InLoveWithBuffy]

I think that Buffy addiction is lot better addiction than drugs or alcohol. This addiction doesn't do anything bad to you, only good things

[The Kinslayer]

At the Buffy Boards, I have met people from all over the world, of all religions or no religion, of every political group, every culture, every level of education, every sexual orientation...every diverse group in the world is probably well represented here, and I consider each and every one of you to be a close personal friend
Ok, so I´m not calling all of you close personal friends just yet. But give me a break, I haven´t been here that long. And I do think I´m off to a pretty good start.

But the thing I really want to mention is the other thing I quoted. That´s the thing I love most about this board. I love the fact that we love Buffy and having discussions about it. But it´s not the Buffy craziness that makes me stay, it´s the people. And I love the fact that we´re so different (bad choice of words) and still get along so well.

The other forum/boards I´m going to is a sport one. And boy are things different there. Since coming here I more or less have stopped going there. Most of them are just plain stupid. I get scared. But of course there are exceptions otherwise I hadn´t stayed. But in comparision this is defintely heaven. That board pretty much shows why the world looks like it does whereas this board shows how it should be. Have I told you guys I love you?

Oh, and Kean. It´s not, let me repeat, it´s NOT a Liverpoolboard.

[SC7 Fan]

I haven't been here long either and I think that watching Buffy and coming on here were the best things I've ever done. Coming on here I've made new friends, friends who actually like what I like, buffy-wise that is, not that my mates at school hate Buffy, some of them like it but they don't want to talk about all the time. Whereas if I come on here I can talk about it for as long as I like.
Like Nerd4Hire said : If we're wrong I don't wanna be right.
I completely agree with you N4H.

[Dlou444]

I will admit that it's "weird". I have a tendency to watch just about EVERYTHING and there's not another show that has hit me like this one.
There's not even another show that I want to buy on DVD (The Incredible Hulk doesn't count, I wanted my kids to see that.) because there's not another show I want to WATCH over and over that much.
I'm still shocked at how much I don't remember from last time.

BUT, I have two theories.
One....subliminal messages. Because everyone I know of when forced to stop watching gets some sort of strange withdrawal from it.
I know a few people who watched it when it was on but haven't since and are SCARED to read the comics for fear that they will go through the same withdrawal when it is over that they had to go through before.
The whole thing makes me wonder just how FICTIONAL Smile Time was. :D

On a more LOGICAL line of thinking....it's Joss's fault.
I gotta give the guy credit. He didn't do the "normal" thing in TV these days and find the BIG NAMES of Hollywood (although I love Gary Sinese on CSI:NY) he found a bunch of no-names for his parts. GOOD no names, though. And then worked his TUSH off to create actual arcs for all the characters so that we would actually feel like they were our "buddies" and real people. It was easy to believe that not only did these people exist but they were actually friends and that we SHOULD enjoy watching them.
He threw in stuff that goes on in real life, but hid it behind the "mystical" so we weren't getting things shoved down our throats.
He chose to make everyone easy to relate to and understand, but in a FUNNY way.
And, I gotta say, the fact that he never recast a character and we never had to just "pretend" that some dorky blonde was Darla because he couldn't find Julie makes me wanna give him a GREAT BIG HUG!

He made a SMART show. Not a show we need a spreadsheet to figure out (Lost, X-Files), but one that was smart and also easy to follow.

That is why I adore him and the shows, even Firefly. I want a show I can "fall into" and wrap up in.
I also like, that unlike other "teen soaps" it wasn't about making sure everyone on the show had a relationship at all times. It was more about living and living to your best potential even if you falter sometimes.

And EVERYONE can relate. I find it very funny that TC and I can have so much in common, and then I realize THAT is what the show does. It shows us all that we're not all that different because we can all relate to a gold show.

[SC7 Fan]

Not a show we need a spreadsheet to figure out (Lost, X-Files), but one that was smart and also easy to follow.


Good point. I was looking on the internet the other day and actually found a reference chart online! Here it is.
http://www.boilsandblindingtorment.com/EZReferenceChart2.jpg

Sorry but I just had to put that on here. Not that any of us needs it.

[Dlou444]

Great, NOW I'm all confused. I'm gonna have to start back at season 1 to figure that one out.

Although, I DID understand the "did time as a rat" one.

Shouldn't we count Amy and Willow as "Friends" or at least "have been friends"? They didn't. I think that means the whole thing is bunk.

!!!!WAIT! I don't see Buffy's "Did time as a rat" box. AND it appears to say that Spike killed Dru....(did Spike kill Dru and I missed it?) Yup, I'm now thinking it's total bunk!

[NightBird]

Wrong, I don't see how we could be.

We have all been touched by Buffy for whatever reason and our love of what is 'only a tv show' can't be understood by people who don't share the same passion.

All though I do sometimes think that I was wrong to pay £30.00 pounds for a replica Mr.Gordo, haha, I had to have it.

[Aussie]

Wow what a great thread to read through! Seems like we are all on the same page so to speak :p
There are so many points I agree on but I think I would blow up the karma thingo if I give anymore karma today!

My dad was once worried about me watching buffy, he even asked my psychiatrist about it who also agreed with me that it was a perfectly healthy way escape reality for 40 mins at a time:D! He has since changed his mind after seeing a few episodes....

Edit:

Blondie Bear agrees: Your psychiatrist or your dad? o.O

Whoops, dad has changed his mind. LOL. I have a feeling my psyc is a closet buffy fan :p

[InsaneMystic]

There's no way to ever know what is fictional and what isn't. For all I know, my life could well be a TV show, computer game or novel, watched/played/read by some kind of higher entity. (Though I wonder who'd be pathetic enough to do consume something this uneventful for entertainment purposes... it's more likely to be a science assignment. ;) ) So basically, I don't see interest in a TV show as any worse than interest in the so-called real life.

But leaving my solipsistically philosophical ranting aside... Echoing what WA said, the most important thing is we BB'ers use our interest in the Buffyverse as the basis for communication and friendship (even where our opinions could hardly differ more *winking at Joyce Summers*). To me, that clearly differentiates us from addicts - people who could be called, according to one possible definition, "communicating" exclusively with the drug of their choice instead of with other human beings.

[OldSwede]

So many good things have already been said on this thread, and I'm not going to repeat them, but I did want to add that even though it's true there is a degree of harmless escapism in watching the series, I don't think it would have such a grip on people like us if it was "only" that (there is plenty of good escapism around). I believe that not only is it harmless and not wrong, but there is even a good chance that you become a better person by watching Buffy. There are very strong and positive morals in the series, with role models that are really something to try to live up to. Pick your own.

[RockManic]

There is nothing wrong with having any interest you enjoy that a) doesn't hurt anyone else and b) doesn't get in the way of you living a healthy life yourself. Beyond those two obvious points I don't see that anyone should be questioned on how they want to spend their free time.

Other than Celine Dion fans, obviously...

[Superstar]

Occasionally, I'm right about being wrong, wrong about being right, right about being right and wrong about being wrong.

[Cangel]

I don't think we're wrong. Honsetly. everybody gets overly excited about something, may it be a book, some sort of sports or whatever. So our thing's a TVShow, no big deal.

[RockManic]

I do think there needs to be limits to any obsession, but that's true about anything in life. Everything in moderation. I love all things Whedon but I couldn't have that as the centre of my world. Apart from all the other television series I enjoy I've got many other interests to fit into my life.

Rock is probably the closest thing I have to an obsession and that is truly something I couldn't manage without. With shows like Buffy and Angel I absolutely adore them but if push came to shove then I'm sure I'd cope without them.

I think that's probably where the line needs to be drawn between a passion and an obsession. Knowing that you could let something go if you absolutely had to. Not that you would ever choose to let it go but that you could if necessary. That's an important difference, in my mind.

[The Chosen]

Lemme start by saying that Buffy is a very influential show, but it happens to be for the right reasons. It teaches us to stick up for what's right and fight for what we believe in. It also helped me overcome a fear of mine today; I went off the diving board at the pool today. I got up there and was about to get off before this thought crossed my mind:

"Buffy jumped off a tower, so why can't I jump off a diving board?"

And before I knew it, I did it! And then I did it again, and again. And it was all thanks to Buffy. So no, we aren't wrong for realizing the amazingness that is Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel and Firefly and all that stuff. We aren't wrong, we're lucky.

[groovygarden]

I don't think it's wrong, but for me at least, there is a definite element of escapism there, which occassionally borders on the unhealthy. I'll watch the show more often when I'm a bit fed up or need distracting from something.

I wouldn't tell my friends quite how much I've enjoyed rewatching the show for the first time this year, or that I post on Buffy-Boards as they might think that was a little odd! Thing is though, I don't think there's much difference between having a good online discussion around a moral/ethical/motivational issue raised on Buffy or Angel, and discussing a 19th century novel at my book club.

I've been rewatching Buffy & Angel since January, and am going to feel quite lost (and a little depressed) next month when I watch the end of Angel Season 5. Surely that can't be normal?!

[Fake Shemp]

i think its normal when you've watched the show so long and its such a big part of your life.... ive watched since it started and i dont think i would be me without it, id be some less obsessed girl who talks not as funny and without quoting.

some of the relationships in my life wouldn't be the same...

i wouldn't have a cat named willow too(who i stayed up till 4am waiting for it to stop raining to get her in, she goes and hides and wont come out in storms).... (xander ran away to another family across from us... naughty cat!)

[hyperballadbrad]

Hmm well, it depends how much love and appreciation puts into something.

I mean, if something like an artist or a tv show starts to rule your life, you become dependent on it etc, then that is a bad thing. Any kind of strong dependence to something in your life isn't going to be very constructive on a personal level. People end up hiding behind them and living through them, which is a shame.

But life isn't supposed to be one thing or another. If i wasn't so into Buffy, then it would just be something else. Every person has their own vices.

[Fake Shemp]

i like that, if it wasnt buffy itd be something else.....yeah we could have all ended up being smackheads

[littlewilly]

or stamp collectors or trainspotters.

[Fake Shemp]

oooh we cant have that now can we! imagine what the world would be like without us and without buffy... not a world i wanna live in mister

[arabella]

I am fabulously amused with this thread... what kind of insane troll logic is it to ask a bunch of people who are members of a btvs forum if it's wrong. Even if we think its wrong (which it is not btw...own your weirdness people) and have a lovely thing called cognitive dissonance, we will do a beautiful thing and rationalize or justify until we can convince ourselves that it is A-OK. We want to believe that we are critical thinkers or whatever, but nosomuch. If you really want to know if we are "wrong" then ask random street people...you'll get a better sample, at least a less bias sample.

and at the end of the day...who cares, I mean really? either you choose to do this or you don't. No one is making you and it probably isn't hurting anyone. also..."wrong" is soooooo subjective.

[Mesektet Ra]

arabella = win. This is fact.

But actually on topic - .:sigh:. Okay. I think, to the casual observer, someone like myself who has the Buffy B tattooed on my ankle and collects the comics and references it every chance I get would be kind of...obsessed. Which is fine, for me. I've really never been one to give a damn in the first place.

If I'm cool with my obsession, I don't particularly see why anyone else's opinion should matter. Everyone's got their own bag, baby, and mine just happens to be good TV in the form of a blonde with a pointy stick.